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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 7, 2018 19:35:26 GMT -8
Payton II was offered at least by ASU, Seton Hall, and Saint Mary's, according to Rivals. I believe that other teams were interested, as well. But...yes, Tinkle does deserve credit for advancing Payton II's game. I'd only argue... if GPII's development was even partially on WT... where is that said development since? Not even Drew, a fellow big man, is significantly better. Drew and the bigs is where I thought we'd see vast improvement. PS- GPII shoots pretty much a set shot... very little lift... and it looks the same as it does in his HS and JC tapes. And WT typically does not do the individual work with the guards. If you don’t think Drew is better than he was his Freshman year, you need to lay off the meth. I’d advise you to just stick to baseball, but you lack knowledge there as well.
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Post by thetruebeav on Jan 7, 2018 19:40:01 GMT -8
This is a silly internet- fan board argument. Of course Tinkle had an influence on any player he has coached and any player brought a ton of his game already. Deep breath ya'll. Stay on course. I agree w beaverfever as I'm not ready to start throwing extensions but come on now... How are we not in better shape in hoops then the last 30 years?!?! Let's rally around a coach that is active in the community & Beav nation, has had 2 out of 3 winning season with a 4th most likely coming, embraces the history of Beav basketball & is someone that runs a program we can be proud of. Jeez ladies & gentleman don't we all have other beefs?!?! Go BEAVS!!! Ok. Let’s just shut this place down. It’s silly. TheGlove....man I so respect all your takes but you know what I meant. Ya....shut it down?!? We could also argue punctiation, spelling or if GP2 jump shot improved from mid range 2 inside the 3. Was trying 2 get 2 the true meat of the convo. I like coach Tinkle as our coach. Good talk
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 7, 2018 20:27:10 GMT -8
I'd only argue... if GPII's development was even partially on WT... where is that said development since? Not even Drew, a fellow big man, is significantly better. Drew and the bigs is where I thought we'd see vast improvement. PS- GPII shoots pretty much a set shot... very little lift... and it looks the same as it does in his HS and JC tapes. And WT typically does not do the individual work with the guards. If you don’t think Drew is better than he was his Freshman year, you need to lay off the meth. I’d advise you to just stick to baseball, but you lack knowledge there as well. LMAO... it's the only polite response to the majority of your posts.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 7, 2018 20:57:09 GMT -8
When GPII came to Corvallis he was a JC guard with few, if any, other DI offers. When he left, he was a two-time Pac-12 all-star, the Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Year, and an NBA free agent signee who made an NBA roster his first year out of college. But of course there was no player/character development whatsoever by the staff to help make that possible. It was all a miracle! As for 7-11, keep talking in circles. Your White House-like self-puffery is the source of endless amusement for myself and many others here. You continue to be proven incorrect... by multiple posters! Lol... circles indeed. I would say three offers qualifies as "a few," which is by definition "a small number." So I guess I wasn't proven incorrect after all. And you're right, except for scoring (13.8 in 2017-8, 7.6 in 2015-6), rebounding (6.7-4.6), blocked shots (1.9-1.3) shooting percentage (.667-.580), and free-throw percentage (.708-.635), Eubanks hasn't gotten any better since he was a freshman.
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Post by beaverstever on Jan 7, 2018 21:11:32 GMT -8
The jury is still very much out on WT, particularly on his ability to recruit at the Pac-12 level. Right now, we're being carried by 2 coaches sons, with a 3rd queued up to take that load. However, right now he's a very good value based on overall body of work.
BTW - Jimmy Anderson couldn't get us to the dance with Brent Barry, a much more complete player than Payton II - and a lot of other talent on the '92 roster, including another future NBA player in Scott Haskin. There's no justification on my mind at all to not give credit for breaking the Dance streak. That said, you don't pay for goods already delivered and paid for, you pay for future promise.
In any case, it seems very unlikely that OSU is going to find 2M/year to go after someone else with a more proven upside, and OSU can do much, much worse within their current budget. And it's also easy to get lathered up by an up-and-comer like Peery at Portland State and think it's easy to find those ... and note that Peery just managed to lose to Eastern WA and Sac State, then squeaked by the Vandals by 1.
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Post by ag87 on Jan 7, 2018 23:31:28 GMT -8
I didn't know Tinkle had a contract through the 21-22 season as someone posted earlier in this thread. My thought is WT (not Willie Taggert) doesn't want an extension at this time either. I also think he believes he will be in a much stronger bargaining position after the 18/19 or 19/20 seasons.
Eubanks has made huge improvements. Each year he brings something new. If he can start working off his right shoulder or develop a jump shot he will be playing in the NBA. Over the last five to seven games a light bulb has appeared to be lit in Stevie Thompson. If that continues, it will obvious to even the doubters that he has turned him self into a high-level collegiate player. I even see a better game from Tres even though he missed a year and was the most complete player of any of the Tinkle recruits.
The recruiting miss that I notice most is a lack of a point guard. I understand 4-star guys are difficult to get but there are kids in Oregon that go to play at lower levels because they are in the 6-foot range. I wish we could have brought one of those guys in as a walk-on. Maybe he would play and maybe he would not, but it would be nice to have a kid that is an good ball-handler and can hit a three when dared.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 8, 2018 0:42:27 GMT -8
Payton II was offered at least by ASU, Seton Hall, and Saint Mary's, according to Rivals. I believe that other teams were interested, as well. But...yes, Tinkle does deserve credit for advancing Payton II's game. I'd only argue... if GPII's development was even partially on WT... where is that said development since? Not even Drew, a fellow big man, is significantly better. Drew and the bigs is where I thought we'd see vast improvement. PS- GPII shoots pretty much a set shot... very little lift... and it looks the same as it does in his HS and JC tapes. And WT typically does not do the individual work with the guards. Drew has improved, and coming into his ankle injury I'd thought Big G is a much more solid college center than when he came in. Those are really the only 2 bigs he's brought in to work with. Kone (if he ever stays healthy) and the 3 that come in this next class will really show if he's good with developing big men. As far as point guards go, he brought in Bruce, who looked to have great potential, and McLoughlin, a 4 star point guard. Neither panned out in the short time they were here, but I don't expect any but very rare true freshmen to come in at the point and look all-world year one. This year and last this team should be moderately well represented with Robinson recruited upperclassmen. We have none. I'd give it another year or two before starting to complain about Tinkle's recruiting unless the goal is to load up with one and dones.
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Post by beaverstever on Jan 8, 2018 7:55:22 GMT -8
On player development: While Drew is improved, when I first saw him as a Frosh, I thought he was gone as a first-rounder by the end of his sophomore year. He just had too much going for him physically, combined with his late focus on hoops, I assumed he'd developer quicker. I still think he will get there, but I have a hard time blaming the coaching staff (and I'd put individual player development more on the assistants anyway).
At the end of the day, player development is almost entirely on the player. A coach can only show you correct technique, the player then has to put in the many hours of repetition to train the muscle memory and visualize situational application of techniques. So would Drew be more pro-ready if he'd gone to Gonzaga with Few? Maybe, but if so, it would have been because he befriended another big there and they spent the countless hours working on getting better, rather than because the coaches taught them better.
Of course, there's the aspect of the coach being able to reach the kind and convince them to put in those hours. Coach Few might have been better at that. But after seeing Sean Miller recently say that he isn't able to reach his current players (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21987261/arizona-wildcats-coach-sean-miller-says-reach-struggling-team), it's clearly a problem even for the best of them. IMO, this is by far the toughest part of being a coach, particularly at this level. I'm very encouraged by what appears to be much better buy-in by the team in the last half-dozen games.
Also, I haven't forgotten the days of CR yelling "Move" as the level of coaching we had here. WT aggressively coaches the whole game - part of it is his personality, but part of it is it's necessary. If you watch the replay on the late Oop to Eubanks against the ucks at the end of the game, notice that several players immediately turn and look at Tinkle to check in on what WT wanted to run with the defense. That told me a lot about the current team's mentality - the game was in hand and the inclination was to celebrate a monster dunk with the crowd that put the nail in the coffin, yet most of the players were still focused on the job.
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Post by bennyskid on Jan 8, 2018 7:55:39 GMT -8
The jury is still very much out on WT. Only on this board. The rest of the world considers Tinkle to be a solid, successful coach.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 8, 2018 8:27:43 GMT -8
On Drew’s development. Seems to me it’s been said Drew didn’t touch a basketball until he was in high school and already 6’5” or 6’6”. I’m assuming a lot of the really developed big men out there have been playing basketball since they were little kids. Odds are his primary job most of high school was to stand as close to the basket as possible and disrupt things or catch the ball and lay it in or stuff it. There’s no telling how much more exposure to basic basketball skills most of the successful bigs have had at this level. He’s come quite a ways here, but he’s playing against other kids, who have coaches that are trying to develop them as well, that have likely had a 4-8 year head start (PDX has a K-4 basketball league, in theory some of those kids could have a 10 year head start on a kid like Drew). Saying he could have developed faster under someone else is a bit of a reach.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jan 8, 2018 8:31:03 GMT -8
The jury is still very much out on WT. Only on this board. The rest of the world considers Tinkle to be a solid, successful coach. People in this thread are clearly taking crazy pills. Wayne Tinkle has 2 winning seasons in his 3 fully completed years. Odds are he will go 3 for 4. 2 winning seasons. Two seasons above .500 ball is as many winning seasons as Richie McKay, Jay John and Craig Robinson had combined... From 2000 to until Tinkle took over in the 2014 season, we mustered 2 seasons over .500 ball. We mustered another 2 exactly at .500 ball. Despite having a train wreck season of 5-27, Wayne Tinkle has nearly the same career winning percentage as Craig Robinson (.463 versus .469). He has a better winning percentage than Jay John. OSU has spent two decades hovering between outright bad and barely average. Wayne Tinkle has had two good seasons and a bad one. This one is on track to be good again. Lets go ahead and stop with this "jury is still out on Wayne Tinkle" bulls%#t. Lets stop with the players do not develop horses%#t people are tying to spew. Apparently you all are as blind as the refs we've had the last two games. We are 8-2 over our last 10 games, and our two losses are by a combined 3 points. It seems everybody here is ready to chalk Tinkle up as the next Andersen. It isn't like he has made us worse. We are overall a better team than we have been in the past nearly 20 years. We can all see the cracks that make us an imperfect squad. the cracks that will keep us from making any kind of post season noise... But it isn't like it makes us a garbage squad. We are night and day a better team than we were when we started this season.
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Post by beavs6 on Jan 8, 2018 8:54:32 GMT -8
Only on this board. The rest of the world considers Tinkle to be a solid, successful coach. OSU has spent two decades hovering between outright bad and barely average. Wayne Tinkle has had two good seasons and a bad one. This one is on track to be good again. This is where people lose me in the JA comparison. What was OSU Men's Basketball like in the 20 years before JA took over?(and then the 3+ years after) What was OSU Men's Basketball like in the 20 years before WT took over?(and the 3+ years aftre) To me they are totally different beginning points with totally different directions.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jan 8, 2018 9:19:09 GMT -8
On Drew’s development. Seems to me it’s been said Drew didn’t touch a basketball until he was in high school and already 6’5” or 6’6”. I’m assuming a lot of the really developed big men out there have been playing basketball since they were little kids. Odds are his primary job most of high school was to stand as close to the basket as possible and disrupt things or catch the ball and lay it in or stuff it. There’s no telling how much more exposure to basic basketball skills most of the successful bigs have had at this level. He’s come quite a ways here, but he’s playing against other kids, who have coaches that are trying to develop them as well, that have likely had a 4-8 year head start (PDX has a K-4 basketball league, in theory some of those kids could have a 10 year head start on a kid like Drew). Saying he could have developed faster under someone else is a bit of a reach. Eubanks has two outstanding issues. 1. he is still light in the tail to be a big 2. he is a blackhole with the ball. He has a grand total of 7 assists on the year. If he gets the ball down low, he is shooting come hell or high water. Granted, more times than not he scores with it. But he forces a lot of bad stuff up there too, when he has out outlet up top for likely an open 3. Teams crash Eubanks because they know he isn't gonna pass.
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 8, 2018 9:58:10 GMT -8
Only on this board. The rest of the world considers Tinkle to be a solid, successful coach. People in this thread are clearly taking crazy pills. What pills are you and your Boov* brothers and sisters taking? Ambien? Xanax? Prozac? Pills that keep you satisfied with mediocrity. I'd blame it on the legalization of weed in Oregon but this cloud has been around for much, much longer. The Mid-Valley Muddle. The Corvallis Crud.
Wayne Tinkle has 2 winning seasons in his 3 fully completed years. Odds are he will go 3 for 4. So a winning season is your benchmark for success? You are satisfied with a 16-15 record, because by definition that is winning. Good for you. But not me. And I'm assuming others including the coach, players and administration are not satisfied with that mediocrity. Winners hold themselves to a higher standard and want to win championships (or at least be in the hunt).2 winning seasons. Two seasons above .500 ball is as many winning seasons as Richie McKay, Jay John and Craig Robinson had combined... From 2000 to until Tinkle took over in the 2014 season, we mustered 2 seasons over .500 ball. We mustered another 2 exactly at .500 ball. I don't think we should be striving for being better than the craptastic coaches of our past, but it looks like you are trying to justify that level. Tinkle > RM, JJ, CR YAY! A wet paper bag full of s%#t is better than those losers.
Despite having a train wreck season of 5-27, Wayne Tinkle has nearly the same career winning percentage as Craig Robinson (.463 versus .469). He has a better winning percentage than Jay John. So we should forget last season because Tinkle is better than Jay Freaking John? What a high bar we are setting for ourselves. Hey! We are better than s%#tty! Let's party and extend a contract.
OSU has spent two decades hovering between outright bad and barely average. Wayne Tinkle has had two good seasons and a bad one. This one is on track to be good again. So what's the point? Keep our expectations low because we have been s%#tty in the past? Wow, that's freaking inspiring. Keep looking in the rear-view mirror and making excuses. Sounds like the same old ho hum attitude surrounding the football program at the tail end of Riley 2.Lets go ahead and stop with this "jury is still out on Wayne Tinkle" bulls%#t. Lets stop with the players do not develop horses%#t people are t rying to spew. Apparently you all are as blind as the refs we've had the last two games. Apparently you're happy with mediocrity. I didn't say that players don't develop. I just think that GP2 came in about the same level of player as when he left. Outstanding athletic ability with very good BBall skills. I did not see any huge improvement is his game that could be attributed to WT's staff. He got a ton of upper-echelon playing experience which made his all around game better.
We are 8-2 over our last 10 games, and our two losses are by a combined 3 points. We've improved or is it a crappy schedule? I don't think we know until the end of the season. Yay for close losses! Moral victories, they feel so good (to losers).
It seems everybody here is ready to chalk Tinkle up as the next Andersen. It isn't like he has made us worse. We are overall a better team than we have been in the past nearly 20 years. No one is saying that. Some people are not ready to settle for WT for the long term...yet. Some people want to see more before WT deemed a success and the long term answer. I have concerns with this staffs ability to recruit well enough to continue on an upward trajectory. Coach Thompson is out of kids and so is WT. Next year's class looks very suspect. The lack of athleticism on this team is depressing. The lack of defensive fundamentals is appalling. All of this is valid criticism whether you and your Boov buddies like it or not.
We can all see the cracks that make us an imperfect squad. the cracks that will keep us from making any kind of post season noise... But it isn't like it makes us a garbage squad. We are night and day a better team than we were when we started this season. So you are already conceding post season play and your OK with our program. Pathetic. Night and day better? C'mon. That is hyperbole at it's finest. Yes, we've improved and think that WT is getting more from his players in terms of effort and attitude now than at the being of this season. Maybe it's addition by subtraction with JM hitting the road? LIPO. I'm concerned that with the amount of minutes TT is getting another injury is forthcoming. Over-playing TT is WT's issue.I'm happy that so many seem to be so satisfied in beating what looks like a bad UO team. I love beating the Ducks but this UO team looks like crap so it feels good but it's not going to make the season for me. So many people can't handle anyone dishing out a little criticism. It's amazing that some of will get hurt by people pointing out issues and/or weaknesses they see in a coach/player/program. No one is saying they hate WT or think he's the next CGA. No one has actually said that. I want WT to succeed. I like him as a man and a coach. I want him to be here, coaching until his retirement. But I only want that if it comes with success. Championships, not .500 records. Otherwise, why are we even doing this? Might as well have a D3 program. It's enough for me to question why I even started this place. Why are are so many around here willing to settle with mediocrity? Is this part and parcel of being a Beaver? When you drink the Corvallis water for 4 years you become an excuse-making schlub that's happy with crap sports? Wrap yourself in the Orange and Black baby. Wear those orange colored googles. Hip hip hooray! Boov it up. atownbeaver you are a valued poster and contribute a lot to Benny's House, but you are the one of the leaders of this kind of thought. Beavs need to strive for championships, not wallow in mediocrity. *Boov- someone that thinks OSU can't be upper echelon, makes excuses, is obsessed with UO and is happy with mediocrity.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 8, 2018 9:59:29 GMT -8
On Drew’s development. Seems to me it’s been said Drew didn’t touch a basketball until he was in high school and already 6’5” or 6’6”. I’m assuming a lot of the really developed big men out there have been playing basketball since they were little kids. Odds are his primary job most of high school was to stand as close to the basket as possible and disrupt things or catch the ball and lay it in or stuff it. There’s no telling how much more exposure to basic basketball skills most of the successful bigs have had at this level. He’s come quite a ways here, but he’s playing against other kids, who have coaches that are trying to develop them as well, that have likely had a 4-8 year head start (PDX has a K-4 basketball league, in theory some of those kids could have a 10 year head start on a kid like Drew). Saying he could have developed faster under someone else is a bit of a reach. Eubanks has two outstanding issues. 1. he is still light in the tail to be a big 2. he is a blackhole with the ball. He has a grand total of 7 assists on the year. If he gets the ball down low, he is shooting come hell or high water. Granted, more times than not he scores with it. But he forces a lot of bad stuff up there too, when he has out outlet up top for likely an open 3. Teams crash Eubanks because they know he isn't gonna pass. I don't think Drew is necessarily a black hole. He is just a bad passer. That is an area that he really needs to work on. He tries to go ahead and shoot against double-teams, because he is awful at trying to pass out of them.
I'm fairly certain that he will leave after this year no matter what, but I wish that he would stay another year to work on his passing and his mid-range jumper. He is going to have to get better in both areas to make it in the league.
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