lefty
Freshman
Posts: 430
|
Post by lefty on Jan 7, 2018 9:28:16 GMT -8
Jimmy was a big reason for Ralph Miller's success. It was Jimmy that did the recruiting and ran a lot of the practices. It seems to me that we won the conference title and he was selected as the conference coach of the year his first year as head coach. What happened after that ....? Even with some bad years his record was close to .500
|
|
|
Post by gnawitall on Jan 7, 2018 10:01:00 GMT -8
Jimmy was a big reason for Ralph Miller's success. It was Jimmy that did the recruiting and ran a lot of the practices. It seems to me that we won the conference title and he was selected as the conference coach of the year his first year as head coach. What happened after that ....? Even with some bad years his record was close to .500 1) Gary Payton helped. 2) lot of talent left 3) we hired a guy who had been an assistant for what, 2, 3 decades?.....we were a top tier program and handed the keys to a guy out of loyalty. I'm sure some on this board know him and I'm sure he's a great guy but IMHO it was the first Andersen (sp?) debacle.
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Jan 7, 2018 10:30:00 GMT -8
I'm on the fence. Please no long-term extensions based on a .500 record. No one will be after Tink after this season. When he becomes a commodity others are interested in it will be time to give him a raise and an extension. I'd be all-in with Tink at this performance level if he made $100k/year, but when you are one of the highest paid public employees in the state I expect better records, better attendance and better recruiting. Being nice is a bonus not a requirement. Tinkle makes just slightly over 1 million a year in year 4 of his contract. Something like $1.15 million. That makes him one of the lowest paid coaches in the Pac-12. Altman makes more than double his salary, as does Alford and Miller (not saying they shouldn't...) Point is, if you are tying Tinkle to value... we are already basically at bargain basement prices. And based upon the last full year of results we are getting bargain basement performance. I'm in LIPO* mode with the Tink. I want to see consistent improvement, YOY until we are consistently in the top 4 of the P12. *Let It Play Out: means watching and not committing long term or in favor of immediate canning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 10:49:25 GMT -8
Tinkle makes just slightly over 1 million a year in year 4 of his contract. Something like $1.15 million. That makes him one of the lowest paid coaches in the Pac-12. Altman makes more than double his salary, as does Alford and Miller (not saying they shouldn't...) Point is, if you are tying Tinkle to value... we are already basically at bargain basement prices. And based upon the last full year of results we are getting bargain basement performance. I'm in LIPO* mode with the Tink. I want to see consistent improvement, YOY until we are consistently in the top 4 of the P12. *Let It Play Out: means watching and not committing long term or in favor of immediate canning. spot on. You finish last, you get paid less than everyone else. It's rare to have a meritocracy work so efficiently.
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 7, 2018 12:32:13 GMT -8
And based upon the last full year of results we are getting bargain basement performance. I'm in LIPO* mode with the Tink. I want to see consistent improvement, YOY until we are consistently in the top 4 of the P12. *Let It Play Out: means watching and not committing long term or in favor of immediate canning. spot on. You finish last, you get paid less than everyone else. It's rare to have a meritocracy work so efficiently. So you’re saying if the Beavers finish in the top half of the league this year Tinkle needs the appropriate raise immediately? I like how the Debbie downers on the board judge Tinkle based on year three of his term. He performed beyond everyone’s expectations for two years straight, then has a horrible year when everyone should have seen the train wreck coming the moment Tres went down, and now the team has more wins than about half the posters on the board predicted for the year and we’re not to mid-season yet. I like the justification of Tinkle’s low salary based strictly on last year, how handy. Ignore when a coach outperforms expectations and focus on the occasional poor seasons... that’s the kind of thinking that got us Coach Andersen in football.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 7, 2018 13:53:47 GMT -8
spot on. You finish last, you get paid less than everyone else. It's rare to have a meritocracy work so efficiently. So you’re saying if the Beavers finish in the top half of the league this year Tinkle needs the appropriate raise immediately? I like how the Debbie downers on the board judge Tinkle based on year three of his term. He performed beyond everyone’s expectations for two years straight, then has a horrible year when everyone should have seen the train wreck coming the moment Tres went down, and now the team has more wins than about half the posters on the board predicted for the year and we’re not to mid-season yet. I like the justification of Tinkle’s low salary based strictly on last year, how handy. Ignore when a coach outperforms expectations and focus on the occasional poor seasons... that’s the kind of thinking that got us Coach Andersen in football. No... really judging based on very average player development, below par recruiting (still no PG coming), and success without GPII. He's lived off a tourney invite... there's been zero to brag about other than that... that's what people truly ignore.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 14:03:18 GMT -8
spot on. You finish last, you get paid less than everyone else. It's rare to have a meritocracy work so efficiently. So you’re saying if the Beavers finish in the top half of the league this year Tinkle needs the appropriate raise immediately?I like how the Debbie downers on the board judge Tinkle based on year three of his term. He performed beyond everyone’s expectations for two years straight, then has a horrible year when everyone should have seen the train wreck coming the moment Tres went down, and now the team has more wins than about half the posters on the board predicted for the year and we’re not to mid-season yet. I like the justification of Tinkle’s low salary based strictly on last year, how handy. Ignore when a coach outperforms expectations and focus on the occasional poor seasons... that’s the kind of thinking that got us Coach Andersen in football. Given that he is due for a contract extension anyway and this team is good enough to finish in the top half i would say he will probably get an "appropriate" chunk of change. Millions of dollar goes a long way in Corvallis. The cost of living difference from L.A. is a real thing.
|
|
|
Post by thetruebeav on Jan 7, 2018 14:16:05 GMT -8
So you’re saying if the Beavers finish in the top half of the league this year Tinkle needs the appropriate raise immediately? I like how the Debbie downers on the board judge Tinkle based on year three of his term. He performed beyond everyone’s expectations for two years straight, then has a horrible year when everyone should have seen the train wreck coming the moment Tres went down, and now the team has more wins than about half the posters on the board predicted for the year and we’re not to mid-season yet. I like the justification of Tinkle’s low salary based strictly on last year, how handy. Ignore when a coach outperforms expectations and focus on the occasional poor seasons... that’s the kind of thinking that got us Coach Andersen in football. No... really judging based on very average player development, below par recruiting (still no PG coming), and success without GPII. He's lived off a tourney invite... there's been zero to brag about other than that... that's what people truly ignore. Baseba111... I respect your insights and opinions but have to disagree with you assessment of Coach Tinkle. He has his flaws, like most or all college coaches but what we need is some stability, fan support & let this program continue 2 grow. Just think the depths it's been since Little Richie McKay, Jay John "the ding dong" & Craig "Michelle" Robinson. I don't count Jimmy or Eddie Payne in this as the other 3 have taken us to depths of Beaver football in the 70's & most of the 80's. After Robinson left, we didn't have the greats knocking on our door. In comes Tinkle who played & coached under Montgomery. Tinkle ran a program at Montana with a similar town, culture 2 Corvallis & took the monkey off our backs and got us dancin. Yes, he had Payton but he was the coach when we broke the streak. Let's all continue to support our 3 major coaches as they are good men, leaders, embrace OSU & can & will win.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 7, 2018 14:32:51 GMT -8
No... really judging based on very average player development, below par recruiting (still no PG coming), and success without GPII. He's lived off a tourney invite... there's been zero to brag about other than that... that's what people truly ignore. Baseba111... I respect your insights and opinions but have to disagree with you assessment of Coach Tinkle. He has his flaws, like most or all college coaches but what we need is some stability, fan support & let this program continue 2 grow. Just think the depths it's been since Little Richie McKay, Jay John "the ding dong" & Craig "Michelle" Robinson. I don't count Jimmy or Eddie Payne in this as the other 3 have taken us to depths of Beaver football in the 70's & most of the 80's. After Robinson left, we didn't have the greats knocking on our door. In comes Tinkle who played & coached under Montgomery. Tinkle ran a program at Montana with a similar town, culture 2 Corvallis & took the monkey off our backs and got us dancin. Yes, he had Payton but he was the coach when we broke the streak. Let's all continue to support our 3 major coaches as they are good men, leaders, embrace OSU & can and will win. First, comparing WT to past coaches really doesn't help make your point. Also, I don't believe anyone mentioned "not supporting". However, being the HC when OSU is invited to the dance is hardly criteria to make him a quantity HC. The player largely responsible was not his recruit... and, honestly the lack of player development and recruiting to needs is scary. If you want to draw analogies try WT and JA... both coached under legends, both got to start with a Payton, both made good with a Payton on the floor. But.... This is year 4 and this team still lacks any offensive identity, no PG/none currently recruited, players continually make low basketball IQ plays (in fact the newest guy, Berger might be the most sound). This is a weaker Pac12, WT needs to actually start winning on the road and finish in the top 4-6 before any raise or extension is given. There is no team out there waiting to "steal" WT away. My point, WT gets way too much credit for the "dance" while other aspects are ignored!
|
|
bill82
Freshman
OSU's 10,157th Best Donor
Posts: 970
|
Post by bill82 on Jan 7, 2018 14:49:52 GMT -8
spot on. You finish last, you get paid less than everyone else. It's rare to have a meritocracy work so efficiently. now the team has more wins than about half the posters on the board predicted for the year and we’re not to mid-season yet. The poll has 75% of posters predicting up to 8 or more conference wins. 22% had 4 or less. We are at 2 conference wins. So half of the worst expectations. I think most posters are in the ballpark. We are like, really smart. bennyshouse.freeforums.net/thread/7893/pac-12-wins-team
|
|
|
Post by thetruebeav on Jan 7, 2018 15:05:16 GMT -8
Baseba111... I respect your insights and opinions but have to disagree with you assessment of Coach Tinkle. He has his flaws, like most or all college coaches but what we need is some stability, fan support & let this program continue 2 grow. Just think the depths it's been since Little Richie McKay, Jay John "the ding dong" & Craig "Michelle" Robinson. I don't count Jimmy or Eddie Payne in this as the other 3 have taken us to depths of Beaver football in the 70's & most of the 80's. After Robinson left, we didn't have the greats knocking on our door. In comes Tinkle who played & coached under Montgomery. Tinkle ran a program at Montana with a similar town, culture 2 Corvallis & took the monkey off our backs and got us dancin. Yes, he had Payton but he was the coach when we broke the streak. Let's all continue to support our 3 major coaches as they are good men, leaders, embrace OSU & can and will win. First, comparing WT to past coaches really doesn't help make your point. Also, I don't believe anyone mentioned "not supporting". However, being the HC when OSU is invited to the dance is hardly criteria to make him a quantity HC. The player largely responsible was not his recruit... and, honestly the lack of player development and recruiting to needs is scary. If you want to draw analogies try WT and JA... both coached under legends, both got to start with a Payton, both made good with a Payton on the floor. But.... This is year 4 and this team still lacks any offensive identity, no PG/none currently recruited, players continually make low basketball IQ plays (in fact the newest guy, Berger might be the most sound). This is a weaker Pac12, WT needs to actually start winning on the road and finish in the top 4-6 before any raise or extension is given. There is no team out there waiting to "steal" WT away. My point, WT gets way too much credit for the "dance" while other aspects are ignored! Baseba1111 but HE WAS the coach when we went to the dance. Robinson had Payton the yr b4 and we didn't go. Didn't sniff it with John or McKay. We turned our program over every 5 years just like football when it was in its low. Once again, he isn't perfect but there is only one in the entire West and it's Few. Last yr Tinkle would say is unacceptable and I'm not saying to sign him up for a lifetime contract. What I am saying is we have a coach that HAS & can be successfull.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 7, 2018 15:20:58 GMT -8
First, comparing WT to past coaches really doesn't help make your point. Also, I don't believe anyone mentioned "not supporting". However, being the HC when OSU is invited to the dance is hardly criteria to make him a quantity HC. The player largely responsible was not his recruit... and, honestly the lack of player development and recruiting to needs is scary. If you want to draw analogies try WT and JA... both coached under legends, both got to start with a Payton, both made good with a Payton on the floor. But.... This is year 4 and this team still lacks any offensive identity, no PG/none currently recruited, players continually make low basketball IQ plays (in fact the newest guy, Berger might be the most sound). This is a weaker Pac12, WT needs to actually start winning on the road and finish in the top 4-6 before any raise or extension is given. There is no team out there waiting to "steal" WT away. My point, WT gets way too much credit for the "dance" while other aspects are ignored! Baseba1111 but HE WAS the coach when we went to the dance. Robinson had Payton the yr b4 and we didn't go. Didn't sniff it with John or McKay. We turned our program over every 5 years just like football when it was in its low. Once again, he isn't perfect but there is only one in the entire West and it's Few. Last yr Tinkle would say is unacceptable and I'm not saying to sign him up for a lifetime contract. What I am saying is we have a coach that HAS & can be successfull. Payton was here for WTs first two years. CRs recruit who stuck with OSU... but nice try. Again, being "that" HC doesn't make him a good HC... that's still to be seen. And, it certainly doesn't balance the other shortcomings. That's exactly one of the reasons JA kept the job...
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Jan 7, 2018 15:25:13 GMT -8
First, comparing WT to past coaches really doesn't help make your point. Also, I don't believe anyone mentioned "not supporting". However, being the HC when OSU is invited to the dance is hardly criteria to make him a quantity HC. The player largely responsible was not his recruit... and, honestly the lack of player development and recruiting to needs is scary. If you want to draw analogies try WT and JA... both coached under legends, both got to start with a Payton, both made good with a Payton on the floor. But.... This is year 4 and this team still lacks any offensive identity, no PG/none currently recruited, players continually make low basketball IQ plays (in fact the newest guy, Berger might be the most sound). This is a weaker Pac12, WT needs to actually start winning on the road and finish in the top 4-6 before any raise or extension is given. There is no team out there waiting to "steal" WT away. My point, WT gets way too much credit for the "dance" while other aspects are ignored! Baseba1111 but HE WAS the coach when we went to the dance. Robinson had Payton the yr b4 and we didn't go. Didn't sniff it with John or McKay. We turned our program over every 5 years just like football when it was in its low. Once again, he isn't perfect but there is only one in the entire West and it's Few. Last yr Tinkle would say is unacceptable and I'm not saying to sign him up for a lifetime contract. What I am saying is we have a coach that HAS & can be successfull. [ Payton never played for Robinson. He recruited him here originally, but Tinkle had to re-recruit him his 1st year.
|
|
|
Post by NativeBeav on Jan 7, 2018 15:29:33 GMT -8
It is nice to see this positive post. I too believe the b-ball program is in good hands. I have had the opportunity to meet Coach Tinkle in person and found him to be very friendly and a great representative of OSU - even inviting me to knock on his door if I was in Gill sometime. I have met WT on two different occasions. The second was at the end of last season, at PDX. We discussed briefly the train wreck that was last season with TT and others going down, etc. He said that the team had a rough year, but they were going to be fine, once everyone else was back healthy. All season I have been putting more stock in those comments, than some of the "torch and pitchfork" crowd on here this year. Yes, "if wishes were fishes we would all have a fry", but I believe WT understands basketball and coaching at his core - having been a player, having a wife that has been a player (basketball ), his kids are players - they have lived and breathed basketball since he was a kid. Will he ultimately take us to the final four someday? Will he win the Pac12 in the next 3 years? I have no idea. But I agree that in two of the three years he has been our HC (not including this year), he has met or exceeded expectations. Not really his fault if he lacked depth last year, many of the starters went down. Chill out and give the guy a chance, at least the rest of this season and next!
|
|
|
Post by thetruebeav on Jan 7, 2018 15:43:23 GMT -8
Baseba1111 but HE WAS the coach when we went to the dance. Robinson had Payton the yr b4 and we didn't go. Didn't sniff it with John or McKay. We turned our program over every 5 years just like football when it was in its low. Once again, he isn't perfect but there is only one in the entire West and it's Few. Last yr Tinkle would say is unacceptable and I'm not saying to sign him up for a lifetime contract. What I am saying is we have a coach that HAS & can be successfull. Payton was here for WTs first two years. CRs recruit who stuck with OSU... but nice try. Again, being "that" HC doesn't make him a good HC... that's still to be seen. And, it certainly doesn't balance the other shortcomings. That's exactly one of the reasons JA kept the job... Again, respect your opinions & thoughts but he has gone 2 out of 3 winning seasons & looks strong for another. That will be 3 out of 4. Which do you realize that the last time we had 2 out of 3 winning seasons was 88-89?? Our program arguably was the worst in all power 5. You can say what you want, but again HE WAS the coach that took us to the dance. Fans are funny when they say well the players did it or give other reasons why or why not teams succeed or not. Bottom line, is Coach Tinkle and the players took us to the dance. I played and coached competively (other sport) & I understand when you are successful it takes players & coaches. Thanks again for your passion for all things BEAVS baseba111 I do enjoy your opinions
|
|