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Nov 30, 2023 13:35:59 GMT -8
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 30, 2023 13:35:59 GMT -8
Imagine if WT hangs on and coaches the 2024-25 season with a schedule of Mountain West opponents. No UCLA, USC, UA, ASU, UW, UO, Utah, CU, Cal or Stanford. The Beavers would likely flip the script and have a winning record, both in and out of conference. The same heads that popped during the 2021 Pac12 Champ/NCAA E8 run would explode all over again. Then what? My thinking is he's probably going to need to win half his games, or somehow show significant improvement, to still be coaching here next year. IF he can do that with a team of primarily sophs and freshman, there's likely to be a 5 game bump in wins the following year when the kids are older and more experienced, and that's staying put. rgeore's point about the NET ratings is interesting. I'm not sure how different the level between the 2 leagues really is, however, each league only plays itself for the bulk of the games, it may be possible the NET ratings can be affected by a relatively small number of early season OOC games and SDSU's run? The Pac did not have a lot of representation in the NCAA tournament last season for sure. |
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Nov 30, 2023 15:21:13 GMT -8
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 30, 2023 15:21:13 GMT -8
Imagine if WT hangs on and coaches the 2024-25 season with a schedule of Mountain West opponents. No UCLA, USC, UA, ASU, UW, UO, Utah, CU, Cal or Stanford. The Beavers would likely flip the script and have a winning record, both in and out of conference. The same heads that popped during the 2021 Pac12 Champ/NCAA E8 run would explode all over again. Then what? What is his overall record? Yep losing record, 30 games below I think?? Versus many many teams that can easily be seen as inferior to some of the MWC teams. Just a hint, current the MWC is the 5th rated NET conference, the Pac12 is 6th. With EVERY team having a higher NET (by at least 50) than OSU in 2023 and that was a 8-22 Wyoming! For whatever reason, the Mountain West kills it in the NET compared to the Pac-12. I believe that Tinkle would be killing it in the Mountain West, despite their lofty NET rankings, Boy George. |
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Nov 30, 2023 17:22:27 GMT -8
Post by irimi on Nov 30, 2023 17:22:27 GMT -8
What is his overall record? Yep losing record, 30 games below I think?? Versus many many teams that can easily be seen as inferior to some of the MWC teams. Just a hint, current the MWC is the 5th rated NET conference, the Pac12 is 6th. With EVERY team having a higher NET (by at least 50) than OSU in 2023 and that was a 8-22 Wyoming! For whatever reason, the Mountain West kills it in the NET compared to the Pac-12. I believe that Tinkle would be killing it in the Mountain West, despite their lofty NET rankings, Boy George. Let's give him an extension! |
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 30, 2023 17:33:04 GMT -8
For whatever reason, the Mountain West kills it in the NET compared to the Pac-12. I believe that Tinkle would be killing it in the Mountain West, despite their lofty NET rankings, Boy George. Let's give him an extension! That’s what she said! |
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Post by irimi on Nov 30, 2023 17:38:15 GMT -8
Man, the Tinkle question is hard this year!
On the one hand, it might be good to have him around leading the team through the transition. He's stable. No one else wants him. And the consistency could be good.
On the other hand, how long can OSU ignore the lack of fans and interest in Beaver basketball? A coaching change would bring about instant interest.
Quite the dilemma.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:42:08 GMT -8
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 30, 2023 19:42:08 GMT -8
What is his overall record? Yep losing record, 30 games below I think?? Versus many many teams that can easily be seen as inferior to some of the MWC teams. Just a hint, current the MWC is the 5th rated NET conference, the Pac12 is 6th. With EVERY team having a higher NET (by at least 50) than OSU in 2023 and that was a 8-22 Wyoming! For whatever reason, the Mountain West kills it in the NET compared to the Pac-12. I believe that Tinkle would be killing it in the Mountain West, despite their lofty NET rankings, Boy George. Well, Wilki the Kid... if "killing it" means better than his current %, that's not tough. But, I believe WT is all of 4-4 vs the MWC. Majority vs Wyoming, a couple vs Nevada. But, if that's killing it with basically no wins, hardly any games vs the top tier... |
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Post by takethatbeav on Dec 2, 2023 10:26:44 GMT -8
What is his overall record? Yep losing record, 30 games below I think?? Versus many many teams that can easily be seen as inferior to some of the MWC teams. Just a hint, current the MWC is the 5th rated NET conference, the Pac12 is 6th. With EVERY team having a higher NET (by at least 50) than OSU in 2023 and that was a 8-22 Wyoming! For whatever reason, the Mountain West kills it in the NET compared to the Pac-12. I believe that Tinkle would be killing it in the Mountain West, despite their lofty NET rankings, Boy George. The mountain west plays road games in NONCON which helps a ton. They also play the other middle tier leagues, while the PAC 12 is playing the worst leagues in the country with a steady diet of Portland state, eastern Washington, and Cal Poly SLO When you play those teams at home and win……you still lose in the NET |
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Dec 4, 2023 7:22:09 GMT -8
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 4, 2023 7:22:09 GMT -8
I had just about completed a preview of the next opponent — Cal Poly — yesterday when I had a glitch and lost it all before posting. So let’s try this again.
First, when the discussion recently tumbled into a discussion of WT, I posted that one might be hard pressed to find a coach who had a conference winning percentage lower than Tinkle’s except for coaches in their second or third year cleaning up someone else’s mess. Well full disclosure, Poly’s coach John Smith is in his fifth year and his overall winning percentage is quite a bit lower than that.
Looks like Cal Poly goes about 8 or 9 deep, but has 3 players receiving about 30 mpg. The 3-5 Big West representative’s best player is 6-8 senior Kobe Sanders, whose game has taken a big jump. After never averaging double figures, he clocks in at 17.4 ppg and has upped his 3-pt % to 41.7. Interestingly though, he hasn’t increased his attempts beyond the arc. holding about steady at 3 per game.
Cal transfer Jarred Hyder mans the point and averages 3 apg to go along with 11.6 ppg. The third member of the triumvirate is freshman Quentin Jones, who is from a town or two away from the Chicago suburb in which I grew up. The 6-5 guard averages 8.8 ppg and 3.8 rpg. A freshman reserve also has an Illinois connection as well as a “link” to a previous coach we just faced Jim Les. Justin Page is from East Peoria, and Les’s old school Bradley is in Peoria IL.
Sanders could be a matchup problem with his length, but stop him from going off and Beavers should have their second win in a row.
Go Beavs!
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Post by korculabeav on Dec 5, 2023 13:07:12 GMT -8
Man, the Tinkle question is hard this year! On the one hand, it might be good to have him around leading the team through the transition. He's stable. No one else wants him. And the consistency could be good. On the other hand, how long can OSU ignore the lack of fans and interest in Beaver basketball? A coaching change would bring about instant interest. Quite the dilemma. Calling WT "stable" is not the words I would choose. The state of the program is anything but stable. He has shown he can't game manage, he can't recruit and he has epically failed to move the program forward off the momentum of the Elite 8 run. He squandered that momentum. He brings zero value for MBB program going throught the Pac realignment ahead. The program can't get any worse than it is because it has already spiraled to the bottom (if not beyond). |
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Dec 5, 2023 13:17:34 GMT -8
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 5, 2023 13:17:34 GMT -8
Man, the Tinkle question is hard this year! On the one hand, it might be good to have him around leading the team through the transition. He's stable. No one else wants him. And the consistency could be good. On the other hand, how long can OSU ignore the lack of fans and interest in Beaver basketball? A coaching change would bring about instant interest. Quite the dilemma. Calling WT "stable" is not the words I would choose. The state of the program is anything but stable. He has shown he can't game manage, he can't recruit and he has epically failed to move the program forward off the momentum of the Elite 8 run. He squandered that momentum. He brings zero value for MBB program going throught the Pac realignment ahead. The program can't get any worse than it is because it has already spiraled to the bottom (if not beyond). |
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Post by irimi on Dec 5, 2023 13:26:43 GMT -8
Man, the Tinkle question is hard this year! On the one hand, it might be good to have him around leading the team through the transition. He's stable. No one else wants him. And the consistency could be good. On the other hand, how long can OSU ignore the lack of fans and interest in Beaver basketball? A coaching change would bring about instant interest. Quite the dilemma. Calling WT "stable" is not the words I would choose. The state of the program is anything but stable. He has shown he can't game manage, he can't recruit and he has epically failed to move the program forward off the momentum of the Elite 8 run. He squandered that momentum. He brings zero value for MBB program going throught the Pac realignment ahead. The program can't get any worse than it is because it has already spiraled to the bottom (if not beyond). I wrote that in light of Smith’s departure. Stable, as in not going to be poached. |
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Dec 5, 2023 13:30:07 GMT -8
Post by korculabeav on Dec 5, 2023 13:30:07 GMT -8
Calling WT "stable" is not the words I would choose. The state of the program is anything but stable. He has shown he can't game manage, he can't recruit and he has epically failed to move the program forward off the momentum of the Elite 8 run. He squandered that momentum. He brings zero value for MBB program going throught the Pac realignment ahead. The program can't get any worse than it is because it has already spiraled to the bottom (if not beyond). I wrote that in light of Smith’s departure. Stable, as in not going to be poached. ahhhhh, understand now. |
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Dec 7, 2023 7:14:34 GMT -8
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 7, 2023 7:14:34 GMT -8
I don’t know if Oregon State has ever played our next opponent Utah Valley in basketball (they did beat Oregon in Eugene last year though), but in a roundabout way there is a connection. Utah Valley was a JC up until early 2000s. The coach that transitioned them to D1 was Dick Hunsaker. (Don’t worry I’ll wait while you think of a few off-colored comments based on his name.). OK, ready to resume? Previous to that he was HC at Ball State when they defeated the Gary Payton led Beavers in the tourney.
Since Hunsaker, the job has become a stepping stone job with Mark Pope (BYU) and Mark Madsen (Cal) having success before moving on. As an aside, if Beavers had moved on from WT after last year, I would have really wanted them to look at Madsen. After a tough first year taking over a team that had lost 4 of top 5 scorers, he had a steady climb that culminated in an NIT semifinal run. Record hasn’t been there at Cal (3-5), but they had 3 straight loses by 3, followed by an OT loss and then a big win over Santa Clara last time out.
But Beavers aren’t playing Cal or last year’s Utah Valley team. This year’s edition is without all 4 double digit scores from last year (1 graduated and 3 transferred, including one to my beloved Illini). This year’s squad is led by 6-7 Forward Caleb Stone-Carrawell. On his third team, he averages 13.0 ppg.
Two guards average more than 3 apg for the Wolverines. Drake Allen came in from Southern Utah, where he started every game, and averages 11.8 ppg. I noticed he did not play in their latest game, win over Weber State, so might be an injury issue. Jaden McClanahan is in his fourth year at UVU, but only made it into the starting lineup this year. Listed at just 5-10, he still manages to average 4.1 rpg along with 8.6 ppg. UVU’s third double figure scorer is redshirt freshman Tanner Toolson (10.3 ppg, 4.6 rpg). He spent his freshman year with Mark Pope at BYU — not surprising since his brother and cousin were the two leading scorers on Pope’s final UVU squad.
Seven footer Trevin Dorius supplies most of the team’s height, averaging 7.2 rpg. They do have two other bigs who see time off the bench (both average mid-teens in mpg).
Utah Valley is 6-3 overall and 1-1 in the WAC. They are not a good shooting team — 45% overall, 27% from 3 and 66% from free throw line. That said neither are the Beavers — 42%, 26% and 76%. This game could be ugly — really ugly. Key could be how well Beavers guard the 3-pt line. Wolverines have failed to break the 20% barrier for threes made in their 3 losses.
Go Beavs!
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Dec 7, 2023 22:13:23 GMT -8
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 7, 2023 22:13:23 GMT -8
I don’t know if Oregon State has ever played our next opponent Utah Valley in basketball (they did beat Oregon in Eugene last year though), but in a roundabout way there is a connection. Utah Valley was a JC up until early 2000s. The coach that transitioned them to D1 was Dick Hunsaker. (Don’t worry I’ll wait while you think of a few off-colored comments based on his name.). OK, ready to resume? Previous to that he was HC at Ball State when they defeated the Gary Payton led Beavers in the tourney. Since Hunsaker, the job has become a stepping stone job with Mark Pope (BYU) and Mark Madsen (Cal) having success before moving on. As an aside, if Beavers had moved on from WT after last year, I would have really wanted them to look at Madsen. After a tough first year taking over a team that had lost 4 of top 5 scorers, he had a steady climb that culminated in an NIT semifinal run. Record hasn’t been there at Cal (3-5), but they had 3 straight loses by 3, followed by an OT loss and then a big win over Santa Clara last time out. But Beavers aren’t playing Cal or last year’s Utah Valley team. This year’s edition is without all 4 double digit scores from last year (1 graduated and 3 transferred, including one to my beloved Illini). This year’s squad is led by 6-7 Forward Caleb Stone-Carrawell. On his third team, he averages 13.0 ppg. Two guards average more than 3 apg for the Wolverines. Drake Allen came in from Southern Utah, where he started every game, and averages 11.8 ppg. I noticed he did not play in their latest game, win over Weber State, so might be an injury issue. Jaden McClanahan is in his fourth year at UVU, but only made it into the starting lineup this year. Listed at just 5-10, he still manages to average 4.1 rpg along with 8.6 ppg. UVU’s third double figure scorer is redshirt freshman Tanner Toolson (10.3 ppg, 4.6 rpg). He spent his freshman year with Mark Pope at BYU — not surprising since his brother and cousin were the two leading scorers on Pope’s final UVU squad. Seven footer Trevin Dorius supplies most of the team’s height, averaging 7.2 rpg. They do have two other bigs who see time off the bench (both average mid-teens in mpg). Utah Valley is 6-3 overall and 1-1 in the WAC. They are not a good shooting team — 45% overall, 27% from 3 and 66% from free throw line. That said neither are the Beavers — 42%, 26% and 76%. This game could be ugly — really ugly. Key could be how well Beavers guard the 3-pt line. Wolverines have failed to break the 20% barrier for threes made in their 3 losses. Go Beavs! Oregon State played Utah Valley on December 1, 2010, the final year of the Pac-10. Utah Valley won 70-68. Calvin Haynes tied it at 68-68 with 11.7 seconds left, but Joe Burton was called for a foul with three seconds left. Utah Valley hit both free throws, and Ahmad Starks' last gasp three-pointer went off the iron. The loss dropped Oregon State to 3-3. The next game was Oregon State's last game against Colorado before the Buffaloes joined the Pac-12, an 83-57 loss en route to a losing nonconference slate. Oregon State went 5-13 in the Pac-10 and split the two games in the Pac-10 Tournament to finish 11-20 overall. Utah Valley was a part of the Great Western Conference, which was not recognized as a conference by the NCAA until 2020. The "conference" basically permitted the seven "conference" members to easily schedule 13+ games a year. |
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Dec 7, 2023 23:22:33 GMT -8
The connection w Utah Valley I thought was being made was our former assistant Jeff Reinert used to be Utah Valley’s head coach when they were a JC.
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