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Post by gzrbvr on Oct 19, 2016 15:41:01 GMT -8
GA's situation should not be compared to Riley I, Erickson, or Riley 2, but rather to Riley 2D, (that is, Riley Descending for those of you scoring or coaching at home). R2D was unwatchable football for the most part. I have no idea why. My guess is the internal dynamics of the team were shot, my own opinion is the Jovan situation was a big part of it. And 2015 GA was pretty unwatchable too. But, to these old eyes, things seem to be getting better.
We did not fire Riley. We hired a coach. The coach has made some decisions. None of us were qualified for the job. We should shut the "" up and support the man. or at the least shut the ""up.
GZR
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Post by nabeav on Oct 19, 2016 15:58:00 GMT -8
beavineugene - good, well written response! We need more of that on this board. I disagree with most of it, but your reasoning is justifiable. I don't agree with you that Riley's sideline demeanor was irritating...it's just the kind of guy he is. Any attempt by him to get in players faces, berate officials, rant and rave like a clipboard tossing Jeff Tedford in 2006 would instantly be recognized as phony and lost him a lot of respect with those around him I'm sure.
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 19, 2016 17:13:49 GMT -8
It has my full support. He even used incidence correctly... The endemic level of 40 point loss at Oregon State in the previous 21 seasons is 0.095 40 point losses per season. In other words, our prevalence of 40 point defeats was 0.1 losses per season prior to GA using 21 seasons worth of data. one loss per 10 seasons. GA has 3 40 point losses in 1.75 seasons for a 40 point loss rate of 1.71 40 point defeats per season. One could honestly say GA introduced an epidemic of 40 point defeats. *figures are not adjusted for relative strength of schedule or increase in offensive outputs.I literally LOL'd! I am glad somebody picked up I am being entirely tongue in cheek here. (though the math checks out, give or take a 40 point loss as mentioned above)
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 19, 2016 17:18:16 GMT -8
GA's situation should not be compared to Riley I, Erickson, or Riley 2, but rather to Riley 2D, (that is, Riley Descending for those of you scoring or coaching at home). R2D was unwatchable football for the most part. I have no idea why. My guess is the internal dynamics of the team were shot, my own opinion is the Jovan situation was a big part of it. And 2015 GA was pretty unwatchable too. But, to these old eyes, things seem to be getting better. We did not fire Riley. We hired a coach. The coach has made some decisions. None of us were qualified for the job. We should shut the "" up and support the man. or at the least shut the ""up. GZR It is easy to point to things like a bad run with OL recruiting and losing a key player here and there. those are things we can all see. But locker room chemistry really might be the ultimate issue that made the last couple years with Riley disappointing. I could mention a lot of things, but the Stevenson thing is there. The Ryan Katz thing. There was a thing with Ryan Murphy a bit too... just, some things, that made you wonder if a few locker room cancer type people had gotten in there....
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Post by beavadelic on Oct 19, 2016 18:44:46 GMT -8
Our team has work to do, but the players are fighting hard, and that's a testament to GA and his staff. I'm hopeful to the future, and time will tell how our program moves forward. Here's another good quite for you GA haters. Marianne Vydra (Interim AD) when asked about GA: "He is inspiring," Vydra said. "He's a good man and a good leader and he knows the game. I would say this is the best football coach Oregon State has ever had in the time that I've been here." She has been at OSU since 1992, in case you were wondering. You can take any quote and spin it how you want. How would you interpret this. GA won 19 games at Wisconsin. Any commentator who was "bad mouthing" GA was probably spoon-fed negative stuff from Wisconsin's athletics department. It was embarrassing for them to lose GA to OSU. Remember all the negative stuff that was said about Bielema from their program when he voluntarily left Wisconsin? This was after having 11 win seasons in 2010 and 2011, and leaving after an 8 win season in 2012. Alvarez is not a gracious individual. It's been alluded to before, Alvarez is not an easy guy to work for. There's a reason why two winning coaches have voluntarily left for "lateral positions" at best, or demotions at worst. Also, Kudos to Nebraska for being strong in the 4th quarter against the Indiana's of the world. Sure glad they didn't have GA's off season regimen, or they surely would have lost to...Indiana. Can all you GA haters (and you know who you are) just start your own "We hate GA thread" and be done with it? If this is the thread for that, then my apologies. I'll refrain from reading further. I'm tired of seemingly every other thread turning into this argument. Seriously, maybe Glove can make you your own board for that stuff? I definitely do not "hate" GA. I'd been watching him for a few years, and was over the moon when I heard he was coming to Corvallis - a huge boost after being bummed to lose Riley. I was glad for Coach Riley's opportunity and also felt we needed some change to renew excitement in Corvallis. To say that I've been surprised (and not in a great way) by the program to this point under Andersen is an understatement. He came in with a plan, but the way he gutted the existing roster (including several guys capable of playing Sundays) was strange to me. I get stocking up on guys who fit your system, but I would rather have seen a transition rather than amputation. For people who might say that the guys who left just had the wrong attitude, I assure you that this is not the case with kids like Richard Mullaney and Luke Del Rio! While GA did nothing blatantly wrong here, by taking this approach we were attrocious last year, and year 2 has been slow, even in a down year for the conference. I actually want GA to succeed. His success would be good for our program and for him. He said that he was a "builder" when he came, and I'd love to see him build a Utah-type, hard-nosed program that regularly goes bowling and sometimes even goes to a major one. I have found it interesting in talking with a couple of guys who know him. One played college ball with him, and told me recently that he was not impressed with him as a teammate or person in college, and was never excited about having him come as a coach. In his mind, he had 1 good year in an inferior conference and then sort of held serve at Wiscy with a different level of talent. I don't share his feelings about our coach, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I do have a take on is that I expect our team to improve every year. With a current underwhelming product it would inconceivable that we could go backwards, but it's reasonable and rational to look for a better version of ourselves on the field each year until we're winning 8-9 games regularly. Falling to 7-5 or 6-6 (even 5-7) once every 5 or 6 years at that point is tolerable, but hovering around 2-3 wins each year won't cut it. I remain hopeful that we have the right guy, and will keep looking up, but I'm sure ready to win regularly again!
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Post by kersting13 on Oct 19, 2016 21:37:02 GMT -8
GA's situation should not be compared to Riley I, Erickson, or Riley 2, but rather to Riley 2D, (that is, Riley Descending for those of you scoring or coaching at home). R2D was unwatchable football for the most part. I have no idea why. My guess is the internal dynamics of the team were shot, my own opinion is the Jovan situation was a big part of it. And 2015 GA was pretty unwatchable too. But, to these old eyes, things seem to be getting better. We did not fire Riley. We hired a coach. The coach has made some decisions. None of us were qualified for the job. We should shut the "" up and support the man. or at the least shut the ""up. GZR I'd have to say that your opinion that "R2D was unwatchable football for the most part" is simply your (biased) personal opinion. The O and D units were generally competent, and aside from the 2013 UW game, we weren't being eviscerated throughout games like we have been under GA. For the most part, the OSU run defense and passing offense have been atrocious for the greater part of GA's tenure. Watching our offense (specifically passing offense) this year has honestly been some of the most unwatchable football I've seen in years, and I watch a TON of football. I still show up to the home games, and watch the road games on TV, and I expect to be supporting the Beavers for years to come. I believe that's more important than shutting the "" up.
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Post by gzrbvr on Oct 19, 2016 22:47:30 GMT -8
Death by a thousand cuts much?? "The O and D units were generally competent"?? Really?? It was a mess. I know it is my opinion and my bias, but I never missed a game for many, many years. Suddenly, in the middle of the UW 2013 game, it became obvious to me that things were not right. I am repeating myself, but I was a huge Riley defender clear to the end. I was surprised he left, but he did--maybe for the best for both parties. We got a new coach who had risen to a pretty good level--maybe he was not the guy many of you wanted, but probably as good or better than we could have expected to get--and my impression was that he wanted to be here, not settling to be here as we have seen with some in the past. Now, your observation "OSU run defense and passing offense have been atrocious for the greater art of GA's tenure" I couldn't agree with you more. But, we have seen this many times before, Fertig, Avezzano, Kragthorpe, Pettibone all went through a transition (Well, maybe not Avezzano, lol). The only time it started to improve visibly shortly after the change was with Riley1. I am not including the DE and Riley2 changes.
So, my slant is that we are in a situation NOT OF OUR CHOOSING with a guy who seems to be giving it all he has, yet a contingent insists on instant duklike gratification and an immediate winning program AND LIKE RIGHT NOW!
My big point is that all the griping in the world, all the criticism is not going to change who the coach is or what he is going to do today. Get over it. Quit whining and trying to coach. Brush up the resume so you can apply if you know everything about it, but in the meantime, keep up the support and quit complaining.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 19, 2016 23:30:49 GMT -8
Just for the sake of proving things aren't as bad as they seem. Riley I was 7-11 vs GAs 4-14 through 18 games. However Riley I did not play at Michigan (an eventual top 25 team in 2015), at Minnesota, or host a top 25 Boise St team in OOC play. Instead in 1997 OSU played N. Texas (4-7), San Jose St (4-7), and Utah St (6-6). In 1998 OSU played Baylor (2-9), Nevada (6-5), and at Utah St (3-8). None of those teams were good. I am going to go out on a limb and say if GA played 5 home OOC games with only one road game vs. teams equal to those. He too is 7-11 and not 4-14. But, GA faced a much more difficult schedule.
You noted the close losses in Riley I. Fair enough, I'd counter with a close loss to a top 25 team in Utah and a close loss at Minnesota to start the year, I'd even throw in the CW in 2015 as a close loss.
Yes, if you look only at Ws/Ls GA is worse to date over 18 games. If you look deeper into those Ws/Ls, well maybe things aren't that much different. Plus, as I've pointed out GAs off field results appear to be better than Riley I, Erickson, or Riley II.
I'll keep saying it, give GA time. Judge him after CW 2017, not now.
Erickson and Riley II IMO are not fair comparisons. DE took over a program on the rise in 1999. And Riley II took over a program that DE took new levels and was still building. And while I admit it wasn't 2-10 bad, GA took over an OSU program on the decline in 2015.
Starting in paragraph 4. We can judge GA whenever. The defense is this team's "strength," and I am not sold on it. I sincerely doubt that Oregon State ever gets the linemen together to run a viable 3-4. And no one will defend the use of a 3-4. Look at last week. A running back came out of retirement that was not quite fit and ran for 179 yards, 5.3 ypc. He was backed up by a back-up wide receiver, who had 13 touches on the year, and was converted into a running back for the game. He finished with 12 touches for 66 yards, 5.5 yards per touch. The third-string running back was sixth-string running back and true freshman, Devonta'e Henry-Cole. (Utah burned his redshirt for the game. He played in his first game since high school.) So Oregon State's defense went up against a formerly retired running back, a converted receiver, and a true freshman playing in his first game of the year. 58 rushes for 293 yards, 5.1 ypc. Utah ran only 15 passing plays the entire game with four completions and still won, and it is all because the offense is even worse than the front 7, because of very questionable personnel decisions (running off anyone that might be actual able to play at a Pac-12 level) and very questionable coaching hires. I want to be proven wrong, but this team is going nowhere right now. Eugene, clue us in. The defensive backfield is improved, and Nall, when healthy, is a force. But what else can you really point to to get us excited about the program's direction? Fill in the blank. You guys should get excited because ___________________. Trying to get back to your point for a second, I do not believe that anyone here is calling for GA to be fired, and, if they are, I will back you up and strongly disagree with them. I will even go so far to as to say, as long as GA does not completely lose the team, we should not even be having a conversation about whether GA should be fired or not until at least 2018. However, I think that a lot of the heavy X and O crowd here is flummoxed by a lot of what this team is doing on the field. Paragraph 1. You agree that Erickson and Riley II were better than CGA. Which means that you agree with the point. You attempt to undercut it by arguing that Erickson and Riley II were coaching "programs on the rise." Riley I created the Erickson "rise." If 1999 Erickson decided to take the head coaching job next year, would this team be better or worse than Riley's 1998 team? I would argue that it worse in pretty much every facet with the potential exception of Nall being a better back than Simonton (when healthy), potentially having a better defensive backfield this year than in 1998, and not having to replace Cortez in 2017. (Erickson wound up going out and getting Cesca out of nowhere post-national signing day.) And, more to the point, which team had more talent 1996 Oregon State or 2014 Oregon State? And just to nail down the point, this is not to say that Oregon State does not go out and sign an amazing offensive coordinator next year and put up thousands of points. This is to say that so far, who has taken more and done less with it? The answer is unequivocally GA. Which is why I say that Vydra is wrong. Comparing GA to Riley I, if you want to throw out non-conference, that is fine. Both started 1-11 in conference. Looking in depth at those games, though, which you indicated would further your point, Riley's biggest loss was by 28 points. GA has had five losses of more than 28 points. GA lost to a 4-6 Washington team that finished with a losing record in conference in Corvallis by 45 points. That is the biggest loss for an Oregon State team since 1993 and the biggest home loss since 1991 against national champion 12-0 Washington. It is the worst team to defeat Oregon State that badly in Corvallis since a 1-7 Stanford team with John Elway at quarterback beat Oregon State 63-9 in 1981. GA has three 40-point losses. Riley only had two in his 14 years. Erickson had zero. Pettibone had zero his final 3.5+ years. That is to say that GA has amassed more 40-point losses in 18 games than the previous three coaches were able to collectively "achieve" in the previous 21.5+ years, 262 games. Or to put it another way entirely, the rate of incidence of 40-point losses has increased 1361% since GA was hired. I am hoping that GA hires an excellent OC next year and rights the ship. I am not sold that the defense will ever work here, but we stand a chance of drastically improving offensively, if we can hire a hand-to-God OC. And a good offense could negate the current desperate need for a killer defensive line, which, so far, has not aperated. I still think that this team has at least one more win in them (three home games, after all), as they are, as a team, improved. However, this is a very subpar team at present. It is going to take a lot of work just to get this team back to mediocre. LOL... loved the info. But, watch out it sounded sort of negative and might undermine the entire "process". Loved the facts, knew the D was bad, but NOT that bad.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 19, 2016 23:43:11 GMT -8
Death by a thousand cuts much?? "The O and D units were generally competent"?? Really?? It was a mess. I know it is my opinion and my bias, but I never missed a game for many, many years. Suddenly, in the middle of the UW 2013 game, it became obvious to me that things were not right. I am repeating myself, but I was a huge Riley defender clear to the end. I was surprised he left, but he did--maybe for the best for both parties. We got a new coach who had risen to a pretty good level--maybe he was not the guy many of you wanted, but probably as good or better than we could have expected to get--and my impression was that he wanted to be here, not settling to be here as we have seen with some in the past. Now, your observation "OSU run defense and passing offense have been atrocious for the greater art of GA's tenure" I couldn't agree with you more. But, we have seen this many times before, Fertig, Avezzano, Kragthorpe, Pettibone all went through a transition (Well, maybe not Avezzano, lol). The only time it started to improve visibly shortly after the change was with Riley1. I am not including the DE and Riley2 changes. So, my slant is that we are in a situation NOT OF OUR CHOOSING with a guy who seems to be giving it all he has, yet a contingent insists on instant duklike gratification and an immediate winning program AND LIKE RIGHT NOW! My big point is that all the griping in the world, all the criticism is not going to change who the coach is or what he is going to do today. Get over it. Quit whining and trying to coach. Brush up the resume so you can apply if you know everything about it, but in the meantime, keep up the support and quit complaining. Chill... that would be kinda like telling you to quit griping about what you see as griping. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IS IT? Have your opinion... but so do we, and it's an innocent message board not your personal soap box. Having criticisms in no way implies we think we should be the coach, just like yours of some of us surely do not imply you should be us! So, simply take off the readers and ignore posts you don't like, but don't act like GA and staff have earned any amount of free passes with the atrocious football we've endured and some of the actions regarding staff and players. IF he earns it, praise will come. But, no one on here has called for his head... zip zero nada that I've read. In fact it's sort of funny, the only posters that bring up GA being fired are his supposed supporters accusing the supposed non supporters???! Weird
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Post by gzrbvr on Oct 20, 2016 7:35:21 GMT -8
Not going to happen is it? Not with you sucking all the oxygen out of the room every day. How are we to ignore your sophomoric posts when they dominate the board and have from day one? When someone has the temerity to post something that doesn't square with your obviously superior knowledge, you manage to spin it anyway.
We know you are dripping with x and o skills, we know you talk to the players in the lobby, we just don't know why you are not the head coach at OSU.
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 20, 2016 8:16:40 GMT -8
GA's situation should not be compared to Riley I, Erickson, or Riley 2, but rather to Riley 2D, (that is, Riley Descending for those of you scoring or coaching at home). R2D was unwatchable football for the most part. I have no idea why. My guess is the internal dynamics of the team were shot, my own opinion is the Jovan situation was a big part of it. And 2015 GA was pretty unwatchable too. But, to these old eyes, things seem to be getting better. We did not fire Riley. We hired a coach. The coach has made some decisions. None of us were qualified for the job. We should shut the "" up and support the man. or at the least shut the ""up. GZR I brought up the Stevenson situation on P-O as a possible reason for the team's struggles and got hammered! Glad it can be talked about in the here and now. I thought it was a huge deal that no one talked about.
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Post by TheGlove on Oct 20, 2016 8:48:08 GMT -8
GA's situation should not be compared to Riley I, Erickson, or Riley 2, but rather to Riley 2D, (that is, Riley Descending for those of you scoring or coaching at home). R2D was unwatchable football for the most part. I have no idea why. My guess is the internal dynamics of the team were shot, my own opinion is the Jovan situation was a big part of it. And 2015 GA was pretty unwatchable too. But, to these old eyes, things seem to be getting better. We did not fire Riley. We hired a coach. The coach has made some decisions. None of us were qualified for the job. We should shut the "" up and support the man. or at the least shut the ""up. GZR I brought up the Stevenson situation on P-O as a possible reason for the team's struggles and got hammered! Glad it can be talked about in the here and now. I thought it was a huge deal that no one talked about. This could get interesting. Please expand on your thoughts about how the "Stevenson situation" caused team struggles. You might also want to define what you mean by the "Stevenson situation" so as to frame your points.
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sabzi
Freshman
Posts: 157
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Post by sabzi on Oct 20, 2016 9:50:17 GMT -8
Death by a thousand cuts much?? "The O and D units were generally competent"?? Really?? It was a mess. I know it is my opinion and my bias, but I never missed a game for many, many years. Suddenly, in the middle of the UW 2013 game, it became obvious to me that things were not right. I am repeating myself, but I was a huge Riley defender clear to the end. I was surprised he left, but he did--maybe for the best for both parties. We got a new coach who had risen to a pretty good level--maybe he was not the guy many of you wanted, but probably as good or better than we could have expected to get--and my impression was that he wanted to be here, not settling to be here as we have seen with some in the past. Now, your observation "OSU run defense and passing offense have been atrocious for the greater art of GA's tenure" I couldn't agree with you more. But, we have seen this many times before, Fertig, Avezzano, Kragthorpe, Pettibone all went through a transition (Well, maybe not Avezzano, lol). The only time it started to improve visibly shortly after the change was with Riley1. I am not including the DE and Riley2 changes. So, my slant is that we are in a situation NOT OF OUR CHOOSING with a guy who seems to be giving it all he has, yet a contingent insists on instant duklike gratification and an immediate winning program AND LIKE RIGHT NOW! My big point is that all the griping in the world, all the criticism is not going to change who the coach is or what he is going to do today. Get over it. Quit whining and trying to coach. Brush up the resume so you can apply if you know everything about it, but in the meantime, keep up the support and quit complaining. So, simply take off the readers and ignore posts you don't like, but don't act like GA and staff have earned any amount of free passes with the atrocious football we've endured and some of the actions regarding staff and players. GA is currently sitting at exactly even in the coach effect department. "Atrocious" should have been expected from any fan paying the slightest amount of attention to his vegas appointed grand total of 7 wins for his tenure. He's currently right on pace. He didn't forget how to coach and neither did Riley after posting the worst coaching effort in the nation last year. Most of the complaints have come from fans who didn't see the writing on the wall during Riley's last years. That senior-laden defense that was a sieve that gave way to the youth GA inherited. The Beavers actually got younger and the win-total dropped this year. These garbage stats with no context trying to frame 40 point losses which was the same argument against Sitake being a good coordinator.
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 20, 2016 10:20:39 GMT -8
I brought up the Stevenson situation on P-O as a possible reason for the team's struggles and got hammered! Glad it can be talked about in the here and now. I thought it was a huge deal that no one talked about. This could get interesting. Please expand on your thoughts about how the "Stevenson situation" caused team struggles. You might also want to define what you mean by the "Stevenson situation" so as to frame your points. linkOdd, as it was similar to the McCartney-Sal Aunese thing back in the day, with less tragic results obviously. Except at CU it had a positive effect, but Aunese was the leader of that team. Even though the news was much harder to get in the 80's, and hardly anyone had a computer, that was widely publicized. At OSU in 2011 a lot of people didn't even know about Coach Riley's daughter and Jovan Stevenson. In my opinion, it seemed like it caused internal friction in the team, and was partly responsible for the dismal season. We did have a nice season the next year, but like many point out here, it seems the slide had begun. All just my opinion of course, and I included a link to one of the stories so I don't get blasted like I did back then. By the way, what a crazy place for this thread to end up, being the intent it started with!
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Post by beavs6 on Oct 20, 2016 10:21:50 GMT -8
GA's situation should not be compared to Riley I, Erickson, or Riley 2, but rather to Riley 2D, (that is, Riley Descending for those of you scoring or coaching at home). R2D was unwatchable football for the most part. I have no idea why. My guess is the internal dynamics of the team were shot, my own opinion is the Jovan situation was a big part of it. And 2015 GA was pretty unwatchable too. But, to these old eyes, things seem to be getting better. We did not fire Riley. We hired a coach. The coach has made some decisions. None of us were qualified for the job. We should shut the "" up and support the man. or at the least shut the ""up. GZR I brought up the Stevenson situation on P-O as a possible reason for the team's struggles and got hammered! Glad it can be talked about in the here and now. I thought it was a huge deal that no one talked about. It HAD to have an affect. No way it could not. I feel like it was not discussed much out of respect for Riley. That has got to hit close to home for him.
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