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Post by speakthetruth on Dec 13, 2023 19:29:33 GMT -8
Kyle Smith at wazoo. Is in his 5th year. After the completion of his 4th year he has had 2 winning league records - the last two seasons. Tinkle in his 10th year has had 1 winning league record.
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Post by irimi on Dec 16, 2023 15:23:48 GMT -8
He just doesn't have what it takes, and it even showed before the era of NIL and transfer portal. 2014/2015 - The season where he achieved the most with less. Catching the conference by surprise, Craig Robinson did the same thing when he arrived. 2015/2016 - NCAA tournament, no Tres for the tournament and lost to #10 VCU despite having Stevie Jr. and future NBAers Eubanks and GPII. 2016/2017 - lost Tres for much of the season, and despite having Stevie Jr. and Eubanks, the team only wins 5 games. 2017/2018 - Tres, Stevie Jr., Ethan, and Eubanks all together, all season, no post season The Elite 8 run was great, but ask yourself, was that Elite 8 team the most talented team Coach Tinkle has ever coached? To me, it’s as if he's achieved less with more, than the other way around more often than not. And now with considerably less talent on the team and unable to retain the more talented pieces, the post-portal/NIL era has been lack luster and will remain so. Season one - Robinson inherited 4 starters and about 75-80% of the scoring and rebounding from the previous coach’s final team. His team was 13/17 at the end of the Pac 12 tourney, but since he was Obama's BIL he was given the gift of entry into the CBI - worst record team to ever get in. Tinkle inherited 0 starters and about 18-20 points and a few rebounds a game from Robinson’s final team. Look it up. They were picked to be last in the conference by everyone, yet finished 8/10 in conference and 17/14 overall. They actually turned down the CBI because the team was worn down. Season 2 - GP2 was a great player. Tres’ last 5 or so healthy games he outscored Payton. For the season, per 40 minutes of play, he outscored Payton. Look it up. Stevie was a true freshman, Eubanks was a true freshman that had only been playing basketball since the 9th or 10th grade (10th, I think?). Tres was missed, he may or may not have made a difference but the team’s makeup was altered. Season 3. Thompson missed the first 6 games, Tinkle only played the first 6 games. Thompson played a good half the season kinda gimpy. They had no Robinson holdovers except one injured player that played a few minutes of a few games. (Robinson had holdovers from the previous coach for at least 3 years). The team sucked, but it relied mostly on players with just 1 year of experience and a bunch of freshmen. There should have been another year or two worth of experienced Robinson recruits, but there were none. Season 4 - A 50/50 season record, 10th in the Pac 12. Not great, but considering the previous season not all that horrible. A big jump up, next year was even better. The season after the Elite 8 was all on Tinkle. Bad bad season. Last year was better but not a good year, about as expected with a mostly new and young group of players. This year has yet to play out. Tinkle has put up most of the best years in the last 32 seasons, and 2 of the very worst (one of which the fault lays squarely on his shoulders). Unlike every other OSU coach in that 32 year span, and a lot of coaches in general, he has never followed up a down year with an even worse year, not yet anyways. At some point he’ll be gone. I’ll wait to see how this year goes. Needs to make headway with this young team. I still remember that first year! What a great year it was. Just on effort alone, the Beavs were big winners! If he could get that sort of hustle out of every team he coached, his win record would be much better.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 16, 2023 17:37:46 GMT -8
Kyle Smith at wazoo. Is in his 5th year. After the completion of his 4th year he has had 2 winning league records - the last two seasons. Tinkle in his 10th year has had 1 winning league record. Two and both in the last five years. Tinkle went 14-10 against Pac-12 competition in 2020-21 and 16-10 against Power Six competition. Lying with semantics.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2023 12:03:06 GMT -8
Kyle Smith at wazoo. Is in his 5th year. After the completion of his 4th year he has had 2 winning league records - the last two seasons. Tinkle in his 10th year has had 1 winning league record. Two and both in the last five years. Tinkle went 14-10 against Pac-12 competition in 2020-21 and 16-10 against Power Six competition. Lying with semantics. The "lying" is your semantics. He has one winning "league" record... 6 seasons ago... since we've begun a new season and conference tourney wins are not part if his league record. As we and all record keeping knows. You can try as you will with your biased cherry picking... his overall & conference record is abysmal. Period. PS- your cherry picking even looks worse considering he's like 18 games under .500 since the start of '18-19! But if course that excludes the 2 best seasons before where he was what, 22 more games under?!
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 17, 2023 13:59:04 GMT -8
Two and both in the last five years. Tinkle went 14-10 against Pac-12 competition in 2020-21 and 16-10 against Power Six competition. Lying with semantics. The "lying" is your semantics. He has one winning "league" record... 6 seasons ago... since we've begun a new season and conference tourney wins are not part if his league record. As we and all record keeping knows. You can try as you will with your biased cherry picking... his overall & conference record is abysmal. Period. PS- your cherry picking even looks worse considering he's like 18 games under .500 since the start of '18-19! But if course that excludes the 2 best seasons before where he was what, 22 more games under?! And yet, my eyes tell me that what you are citing obfuscates the whole story.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2023 14:50:20 GMT -8
The "whole story"...
134-161 / 58-110
Simple...
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 17, 2023 20:48:09 GMT -8
The "whole story"... 134-161 / 58-110 Simple...
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2023 20:51:10 GMT -8
The "whole story"... 134-161 / 58-110 Simple... Key word you used... "Whole" But, glad you can post about singular events and parts of three "whole".
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 17, 2023 21:12:02 GMT -8
Key word you used... "Whole" But, glad you can post about singular events and parts of three "whole". The sum of its parts has been greater than an antiseptic 30,000-foot view of the whole. Tinkle's median season is one that is .500+. You are obfuscating by pointing to numbers that are skewed by wretched seasons. On the whole Tinkle has more good seasons than bad seasons. But three wretched seasons wash out what has been a generally great tenure. You are arguing popular vote, when Tinkle has clearly been crushing the electoral college. You are making a straw man's argument. I just disagree.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2023 21:28:08 GMT -8
Key word you used... "Whole" But, glad you can post about singular events and parts of three "whole". The sum of its parts has been greater than an antiseptic 30,000-foot view of the whole. Tinkle's median season is one that is .500+. You are obfuscating by pointing to numbers that are skewed by wretched seasons. On the whole Tinkle has more good seasons than bad seasons. But three wretched seasons wash out what has been a generally great tenure. You are arguing popular vote, when Tinkle has clearly been crushing the electoral college. You are making a straw man's argument. I just disagree. Actual seasons count. He was the HC, the recruiter, and responsible for the entire roster and results. No matter what you call "median" using an overall record with a SOS in the mid 200's. Of course let's talk to the schedule that counts... conference. Is that .500+ PS- your knowledge of stats must be very limited in thinking that median is a meaningful description of 10 data points. But, then again, informant bias is one of your calling cards. 58-110... soon to fall below 52 games under .500. Can't wait for the next set of bias reasoning.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 17, 2023 21:59:52 GMT -8
The 18 losing seasons in 23 years that Anderson/Payne/McKay/John/Moulton/Robinson collectively put up kinda sucks against the 3 losing seasons in 9 years Tinkle put up.
Not saying Tinkle is the greatest coach ever, but he's done far better that the previous 2 decades of coaches here. His overall record is heavily skewed by the 3 losing seasons.
I suspect anyone who actually studied the science of statistics probably wouldn't use a mean based on 9 data points, but they probably wouldn't use averages skewed by extremes as an example of a reliable metric either.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 17, 2023 22:01:19 GMT -8
The sum of its parts has been greater than an antiseptic 30,000-foot view of the whole. Tinkle's median season is one that is .500+. You are obfuscating by pointing to numbers that are skewed by wretched seasons. On the whole Tinkle has more good seasons than bad seasons. But three wretched seasons wash out what has been a generally great tenure. You are arguing popular vote, when Tinkle has clearly been crushing the electoral college. You are making a straw man's argument. I just disagree. Actual seasons count. He was the HC, the recruiter, and responsible for the entire roster and results. No matter what you call "median" using an overall record with a SOS in the mid 200's. Of course let's talk to the schedule that counts... conference. Is that .500+ PS- your knowledge of stats must be very limited in thinking that median is a meaningful description of 10 data points. But, then again, informant bias is one of your calling cards. 58-110... soon to fall below 52 games under .500. Can't wait for the next set of bias reasoning. I think you mean something other than informant bias. Otherwise, I do not follow. Also, generally, I do not follow. Oregon State's current SOS is 77. Sagarin rates Oregon State's current SOS at 66 Your ad hominem attacks of both me and the use of a median apparently in a data pool of 10 seasons notwithstanding, the median season is a truer view of Tinkle than the mean season. As you say, actual seasons count. That is exactly my point! Thank you for making it so eloquently for me! That is why the median is a better view of the median than the mean, where you throw them all together and ignore the ebbs and flows. Three bad season do not spoil the rest. Oregon State is never going to be able to overcome one or two bad breaks in a season. And there were just wretched breaks in the two awful seasons.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2023 22:02:28 GMT -8
The 18 losing seasons in 23 years that Anderson/Payne/McKay/John/Moulton/Robinson collectively put up kinda sucks against the 3 losing seasons in 9 years Tinkle put up. Not saying Tinkle is the greatest coach ever, but he's done far better that the previous 2 decades of coaches here. His overall record is heavily skewed by the 3 losing seasons. I suspect anyone who actually studied the science of statistics probably wouldn't use a mean based on 9 data points, but they probably wouldn't use averages skewed by extremes as an example of a reliable metric either. 58-110 isn't an average. It's the factual, unbiased actual conference record.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 17, 2023 22:13:08 GMT -8
The 18 losing seasons in 23 years that Anderson/Payne/McKay/John/Moulton/Robinson collectively put up kinda sucks against the 3 losing seasons in 9 years Tinkle put up. Not saying Tinkle is the greatest coach ever, but he's done far better that the previous 2 decades of coaches here. His overall record is heavily skewed by the 3 losing seasons. I suspect anyone who actually studied the science of statistics probably wouldn't use a mean based on 9 data points, but they probably wouldn't use averages skewed by extremes as an example of a reliable metric either. 58-110 isn't an average. It's the factual, unbiased actual conference record. And I posit that it is inherently biased, because of the seasons that occurred. The fact that no season has seen Tinkle put up a 13-loss season proves to me that the mean is skewed and does not accurately convey the truth of the matter. There were bad breaks in a couple of seasons, which makes the mean look much worse than the reality IMO. Other people's mileage may vary.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 17, 2023 22:14:00 GMT -8
Actual seasons count. He was the HC, the recruiter, and responsible for the entire roster and results. No matter what you call "median" using an overall record with a SOS in the mid 200's. Of course let's talk to the schedule that counts... conference. Is that .500+ PS- your knowledge of stats must be very limited in thinking that median is a meaningful description of 10 data points. But, then again, informant bias is one of your calling cards. 58-110... soon to fall below 52 games under .500. Can't wait for the next set of bias reasoning. I think you mean something other than informant bias. Otherwise, I do not follow. Also, generally, I do not follow. Oregon State's current SOS is 77. Sagarin rates Oregon State's current SOS at 66 Your ad hominem attacks of both me and the use of a median apparently in a data pool of 10 seasons notwithstanding, the median season is a truer view of Tinkle than the mean season. As you say, actual seasons count. That is exactly my point! Thank you for making it so eloquently for me! That is why the median is a better view of the median than the mean, where you throw them all together and ignore the ebbs and flows. Three bad season do not spoil the rest. Oregon State is never going to be able to overcome one or two bad breaks in a season. And there were just wretched breaks in the two awful seasons. Lol... the wretched breaks? One key injury automatically means 5-27? Do tell us what were the wretched break(s) that lead to the worst season in OSU history? Like what transfers? Those that every program faces. Hmmmm... but weird probably not so much after an E8. Guess some coaches are just better at handling "wretched breaks"?! 58-110... no bias, no excuses, the actual HC record in Pac12 play. So far.
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