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Post by lebaneaver on Dec 11, 2023 18:11:40 GMT -8
This team NEEDS to shoot the three (better....MUCH better) if they're to win any more than 5. Hope I'm wrong. I'll ADD; if they don't defend the key MUCH better, the PAC will have a field day driving the lane.
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Post by seastape on Dec 11, 2023 18:48:53 GMT -8
I guessed 4. I hope I am wrong.
Agree with the discussion about needing to improve our 4-point %age, but I would extend it to say that we need better guard play, period. Until that improves, the wins will be tough to come by.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 11, 2023 19:36:06 GMT -8
I guessed 4. I hope I am wrong. Agree with the discussion about needing to improve our 4-point %age, but I would extend it to say that we need better guard play, period. Until that improves, the wins will be tough to come by. I think you found the key. We just need to make a bunch of 4 pointers. 😁 |
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Post by seastape on Dec 11, 2023 19:56:38 GMT -8
I guessed 4. I hope I am wrong. Agree with the discussion about needing to improve our 4-point %age, but I would extend it to say that we need better guard play, period. Until that improves, the wins will be tough to come by. I think you found the key. We just need to make a bunch of 4 pointers. 😁 I suppose editing my post might have been a good idea. |
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Post by ag87 on Dec 12, 2023 1:33:25 GMT -8
I guessed 4. Re: Jeff Stout, I remember him being slow and not elevating when he shot. He'd never get a shot off inside of 35-feet in today's game.
I also thought it was time to change coaches after Tres and KK ran out of eligibility. Then the guys that came back went to the E8. I hope we have the money to buy out coach's contract at the end of the year
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Post by irimi on Dec 12, 2023 6:44:00 GMT -8
I’m in the four group, too because I am too jaded. I keep waiting for Tinkle to prove me wrong, but he doesn’t inspire any confidence. (Why can’t the Beavers ever get off to a fast start? Why do we always seem to spot the opponent the first half?)
But success and winning is contagious and the team has been winning some close games. That will help bring the team together and maybe they grow and win a bunch more. A few blow out wins would’ve convinced me that they can make noise in the conference. But aside from that, gritty wins are good for a young team and may lead to more so there’s reason to be hopeful.
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Post by speakthetruth on Dec 12, 2023 7:50:13 GMT -8
As I post this 40 staunch beaver believers have given their opinion on how many league wins the Beavs will have this year. The average is a fraction over 6. A 20 game league season and the 40 believers estimated 6 wins. 6-14. Sad. Very sad. A 6 win season would probably be expected in a new coach's first year, but the 10th? All the excuses some might come up with and none are acceptable.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 12, 2023 7:54:34 GMT -8
I guessed 4. Re: Jeff Stout, I remember him being slow and not elevating when he shot. He'd never get a shot off inside of 35-feet in today's game. I also thought it was time to change coaches after Tres and KK ran out of eligibility. Then the guys that came back went to the E8. I hope we have the money to buy out coach's contract at the end of the year My memory of Stout was that he was not in the kind of shape the rest of the team was, but he often came in and drained his first 3-4 shots, long shots even by today’s standards, then was pretty much spent and got kinda sloppy. Ralph seemed to put him in for 5-6 minutes to give 2 or 3 guys a break, I often thought Ralph should put him in for just 3 minutes at a time. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 12, 2023 8:15:28 GMT -8
I voted ~6 wins, but as the poll results come in, I realize I may have been too optimistic....
Because I really don't know how good or bad the team is, because I don't follow them very closely, if at all. And this from someone who camped out on the ramps of Gill days ahead of season ticket distribution back in the day.....
I watch a bit of women's BB to scratch the basketball itch in general, and I will tune in to a couple of men's games just to see what's up.
But I don't think Tinkle can coach. Well. Or maybe he's a gifted coach but he can't get the kid's collective attention. Or he doesn't have the talent to compete. Or he doesn't have enough institutional support to be competitive. Or he doesn't have the NIL backing to land big fish. Or a couple of the Pac-12 teams are too dominant. Or all of the above. Or some of the above.
What he does have is a contract that keeps him here for a while longer. And even if it didn't, I honestly am not sure what the answer is at this point. Rebuild around a young up-and-comer? Find an alum from the days of yore to coach? Grab a good assistant from another conference team? Some of these we have tried.....
Now some will hasten to point out the Elite 8 run. Yup, I was there, and I enjoyed it immensely as well. Props to Tinkle for providing me the greatest Tournament highlights of my Beaverdom (I arrived on campus in 1987, so missed the #1 team.....). But note that no one would have said during that season "this is a Tourney team", nor entering the Pac-12 tournament, nor when brackets were announced......it was an improbable run (but not an impossible one, obviously). How much grace does Tinkle get for that? (again, admittedly the greatest highlight of my watching MBB hoops for ~35 years).
And some will point out that statistically this guy has been better by some measure or another than all the other duds we somehow managed to find. And that might be true as well.
So again, what is the fix? Luckily, my name is not Scott Barnes, and I can direct my time and attention elsewhere.
So here I vote for 6 wins, and ponder the conundrum that has become Beaver basketball.
Go Beavers!
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Post by messi on Dec 13, 2023 8:43:28 GMT -8
I voted ~6 wins, but as the poll results come in, I realize I may have been too optimistic.... Because I really don't know how good or bad the team is, because I don't follow them very closely, if at all. And this from someone who camped out on the ramps of Gill days ahead of season ticket distribution back in the day..... I watch a bit of women's BB to scratch the basketball itch in general, and I will tune in to a couple of men's games just to see what's up. But I don't think Tinkle can coach. Well. Or maybe he's a gifted coach but he can't get the kid's collective attention. Or he doesn't have the talent to compete. Or he doesn't have enough institutional support to be competitive. Or he doesn't have the NIL backing to land big fish. Or a couple of the Pac-12 teams are too dominant. Or all of the above. Or some of the above. What he does have is a contract that keeps him here for a while longer. And even if it didn't, I honestly am not sure what the answer is at this point. Rebuild around a young up-and-comer? Find an alum from the days of yore to coach? Grab a good assistant from another conference team? Some of these we have tried..... Now some will hasten to point out the Elite 8 run. Yup, I was there, and I enjoyed it immensely as well. Props to Tinkle for providing me the greatest Tournament highlights of my Beaverdom (I arrived on campus in 1987, so missed the #1 team.....). But note that no one would have said during that season "this is a Tourney team", nor entering the Pac-12 tournament, nor when brackets were announced......it was an improbable run (but not an impossible one, obviously). How much grace does Tinkle get for that? (again, admittedly the greatest highlight of my watching MBB hoops for ~35 years). And some will point out that statistically this guy has been better by some measure or another than all the other duds we somehow managed to find. And that might be true as well. So again, what is the fix? Luckily, my name is not Scott Barnes, and I can direct my time and attention elsewhere. So here I vote for 6 wins, and ponder the conundrum that has become Beaver basketball. Go Beavers! He just doesn't have what it takes, and it even showed before the era of NIL and transfer portal. 2014/2015 - The season where he achieved the most with less. Catching the conference by surprise, Craig Robinson did the same thing when he arrived. 2015/2016 - NCAA tournament, no Tres for the tournament and lost to #10 VCU despite having Stevie Jr. and future NBAers Eubanks and GPII. 2016/2017 - lost Tres for much of the season, and despite having Stevie Jr. and Eubanks, the team only wins 5 games. 2017/2018 - Tres, Stevie Jr., Ethan, and Eubanks all together, all season, no post season The Elite 8 run was great, but ask yourself, was that Elite 8 team the most talented team Coach Tinkle has ever coached? To me, its as if he's achieved less with more, than the other way around more often than not. And now with considerably less talent on the team and unable to retain the more talented pieces, the post-portal/NIL era has been lack luster and will remain so. |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 13, 2023 9:11:09 GMT -8
Good luck finding a coach who has 'what it takes' in 2024 or 2025. For the swan song Pac12 season, we find the OSU MBB program firmly at the bottom of the conference. People will quickly say "we should be better than WSU" but why aren't we? Why is WSU able to attract great coaches like Tony Bennett and Kyle Smith while OSU is not? Truth is, WSU was our only peer in MBB for the last 20 years, and the Cougs have elevated about us. There are lottsa reasons both WSU and OSU haven't thrived over the years, but why has OSU made all the wrong moves? There are plenty of obvious challenges for OSU but after 6 failed coaches in a row, I'd love to hear some theories (break out the Reynolds Wrap).
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 13, 2023 9:52:16 GMT -8
Good luck finding a coach who has 'what it takes' in 2024 or 2025. For the swan song Pac12 season, we find the OSU MBB program firmly at the bottom of the conference. People will quickly say "we should be better than WSU" but why aren't we? Why is WSU able to attract great coaches like Tony Bennett and Kyle Smith while OSU is not? Truth is, WSU was our only peer in MBB for the last 20 years, and the Cougs have elevated about us. There are lottsa reasons both WSU and OSU haven't thrived over the years, but why has OSU made all the wrong moves? There are plenty of obvious challenges for OSU but after 6 failed coaches in a row, I'd love to hear some theories (break out the Reynolds Wrap). Kyle Smith has a .445 conference winning percentage. Yes, it's better than Tinkle, but if that's your definition of great, than we should be able to find that. |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 13, 2023 10:03:07 GMT -8
I thought the conference record was the gold standard in this forum. I'm looking at other factors too like recruiting, transfer portal, scheme, bench coach, etc. All of which he's good at. I think he's been a great hire for WSU, much better hire than anything OSU has done.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 13, 2023 10:37:19 GMT -8
I voted ~6 wins, but as the poll results come in, I realize I may have been too optimistic.... Because I really don't know how good or bad the team is, because I don't follow them very closely, if at all. And this from someone who camped out on the ramps of Gill days ahead of season ticket distribution back in the day..... I watch a bit of women's BB to scratch the basketball itch in general, and I will tune in to a couple of men's games just to see what's up. But I don't think Tinkle can coach. Well. Or maybe he's a gifted coach but he can't get the kid's collective attention. Or he doesn't have the talent to compete. Or he doesn't have enough institutional support to be competitive. Or he doesn't have the NIL backing to land big fish. Or a couple of the Pac-12 teams are too dominant. Or all of the above. Or some of the above. What he does have is a contract that keeps him here for a while longer. And even if it didn't, I honestly am not sure what the answer is at this point. Rebuild around a young up-and-comer? Find an alum from the days of yore to coach? Grab a good assistant from another conference team? Some of these we have tried..... Now some will hasten to point out the Elite 8 run. Yup, I was there, and I enjoyed it immensely as well. Props to Tinkle for providing me the greatest Tournament highlights of my Beaverdom (I arrived on campus in 1987, so missed the #1 team.....). But note that no one would have said during that season "this is a Tourney team", nor entering the Pac-12 tournament, nor when brackets were announced......it was an improbable run (but not an impossible one, obviously). How much grace does Tinkle get for that? (again, admittedly the greatest highlight of my watching MBB hoops for ~35 years). And some will point out that statistically this guy has been better by some measure or another than all the other duds we somehow managed to find. And that might be true as well. So again, what is the fix? Luckily, my name is not Scott Barnes, and I can direct my time and attention elsewhere. So here I vote for 6 wins, and ponder the conundrum that has become Beaver basketball. Go Beavers! He just doesn't have what it takes, and it even showed before the era of NIL and transfer portal. 2014/2015 - The season where he achieved the most with less. Catching the conference by surprise, Craig Robinson did the same thing when he arrived. 2015/2016 - NCAA tournament, no Tres for the tournament and lost to #10 VCU despite having Stevie Jr. and future NBAers Eubanks and GPII. 2016/2017 - lost Tres for much of the season, and despite having Stevie Jr. and Eubanks, the team only wins 5 games. 2017/2018 - Tres, Stevie Jr., Ethan, and Eubanks all together, all season, no post season The Elite 8 run was great, but ask yourself, was that Elite 8 team the most talented team Coach Tinkle has ever coached? To me, it’s as if he's achieved less with more, than the other way around more often than not. And now with considerably less talent on the team and unable to retain the more talented pieces, the post-portal/NIL era has been lack luster and will remain so. Season one - Robinson inherited 4 starters and about 75-80% of the scoring and rebounding from the previous coach’s final team. His team was 13/17 at the end of the Pac 12 tourney, but since he was Obama's BIL he was given the gift of entry into the CBI - worst record team to ever get in. Tinkle inherited 0 starters and about 18-20 points and a few rebounds a game from Robinson’s final team. Look it up. They were picked to be last in the conference by everyone, yet finished 8/10 in conference and 17/14 overall. They actually turned down the CBI because the team was worn down. Season 2 - GP2 was a great player. Tres’ last 5 or so healthy games he outscored Payton. For the season, per 40 minutes of play, he outscored Payton. Look it up. Stevie was a true freshman, Eubanks was a true freshman that had only been playing basketball since the 9th or 10th grade (10th, I think?). Tres was missed, he may or may not have made a difference but the team’s makeup was altered. Season 3. Thompson missed the first 6 games, Tinkle only played the first 6 games. Thompson played a good half the season kinda gimpy. They had no Robinson holdovers except one injured player that played a few minutes of a few games. (Robinson had holdovers from the previous coach for at least 3 years). The team sucked, but it relied mostly on players with just 1 year of experience and a bunch of freshmen. There should have been another year or two worth of experienced Robinson recruits, but there were none. Season 4 - A 50/50 season record, 10th in the Pac 12. Not great, but considering the previous season not all that horrible. A big jump up, next year was even better. The season after the Elite 8 was all on Tinkle. Bad bad season. Last year was better but not a good year, about as expected with a mostly new and young group of players. This year has yet to play out. Tinkle has put up most of the best years in the last 32 seasons, and 2 of the very worst (one of which the fault lays squarely on his shoulders). Unlike every other OSU coach in that 32 year span, and a lot of coaches in general, he has never followed up a down year with an even worse year, not yet anyways. At some point he’ll be gone. I’ll wait to see how this year goes. Needs to make headway with this young team. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 13, 2023 10:40:13 GMT -8
Good luck finding a coach who has 'what it takes' in 2024 or 2025. For the swan song Pac12 season, we find the OSU MBB program firmly at the bottom of the conference. People will quickly say "we should be better than WSU" but why aren't we? Why is WSU able to attract great coaches like Tony Bennett and Kyle Smith while OSU is not? Truth is, WSU was our only peer in MBB for the last 20 years, and the Cougs have elevated about us. There are lottsa reasons both WSU and OSU haven't thrived over the years, but why has OSU made all the wrong moves? There are plenty of obvious challenges for OSU but after 6 failed coaches in a row, I'd love to hear some theories (break out the Reynolds Wrap). How is OSU firmly at the bottom of the conference when no conference games have been played yet? We weren’t even at the bottom of the conference last year. |
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