|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 14, 2023 21:57:52 GMT -8
Just because you don't understand the power of the Pac-12 brand, even if it includes current G5 teams, doesn't mean nobody else does. He's selling the future, and it isn't a Pac-2 operating independently. The Pac-12 brand is not the MWC and that is how the vast majority of the college football world is going to look at a reverse merger: it will be seen as the MWC with two ex-Pac teams. Sorry. The Pac-2 is already being mocked on social media as being a part of or at the same level as the MWC. I know they are basically trolls but that doesn't mean the perception is any less real. He's not selling a future in the MWC or anywhere else. The Pac-2 is what he has right now. He does not know where OSU will be in the future. Once again, dominoes will fall. They're in motion at this very moment. You keep saying everyone will see a merged conference as the MWC+2. Only a few here say that, most every article I've read acknowledges a merged Pac-12 is worth far more than OSU and WSU joining the MWC, the podcasters pretty much the same. You've been one of these guys repeatedly talking about somehow joining a P4 conference or ex-Pac 12 teams somehow coming back, both are very very unlikely to happen. It will either be a merger, or grabbing the top 6-8 MWC and some other G5 teams. The only thing that stops that is the whole FBS imploding in the next 2 years (which could be more likely than joining a P4 conference or rebuilding with ex-Pac-12 members. My guess is Coach Bray probably knows what the plan for 2 years from now is intended to be better than any of us. You say it's being mocked on social media, well, you are one of the ones mocking it in my book. Basically, we all probably search for confirmation bias to some extent, maybe I tend to pay attention to the stuff that says the Pac is setting itself up to remain one of the 5 strongest conferences... not the MWC plus two, not the Old Pac 12 but still a stronger conference than the MWC. Brand does matter, it probably matters to the kids that he's bringing in as well. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Dec 14, 2023 22:44:51 GMT -8
The Pac-12 brand is not the MWC and that is how the vast majority of the college football world is going to look at a reverse merger: it will be seen as the MWC with two ex-Pac teams. Sorry. The Pac-2 is already being mocked on social media as being a part of or at the same level as the MWC. I know they are basically trolls but that doesn't mean the perception is any less real. He's not selling a future in the MWC or anywhere else. The Pac-2 is what he has right now. He does not know where OSU will be in the future. Once again, dominoes will fall. They're in motion at this very moment. You keep saying everyone will see a merged conference as the MWC+2. Only a few here say that, most every article I've read acknowledges a merged Pac-12 is worth far more than OSU and WSU joining the MWC, the podcasters pretty much the same. You've been one of these guys repeatedly talking about somehow joining a P4 conference or ex-Pac 12 teams somehow coming back, both are very very unlikely to happen. It will either be a merger, or grabbing the top 6-8 MWC and some other G5 teams. The only thing that stops that is the whole FBS imploding in the next 2 years (which could be more likely than joining a P4 conference or rebuilding with ex-Pac-12 members. My guess is Coach Bray probably knows what the plan for 2 years from now is intended to be better than any of us. You say it's being mocked on social media, well, you are one of the ones mocking it in my book. Basically, we all probably search for confirmation bias to some extent, maybe I tend to pay attention to the stuff that says the Pac is setting itself up to remain one of the 5 strongest conferences... not the MWC plus two, not the Old Pac 12 but still a stronger conference than the MWC. Brand does matter, it probably matters to the kids that he's bringing in as well. I'm not talking about OSU and WSU joining the MWC as regular members. That would only happen if the Pac-2 lost the court case and could not find anywhere else to go. I'm pretty sure no OSU fan wants that to happen. I'm against a full merger with the MWC. As in it's the Pac, but really it's OSU and WSU and all of the MWC teams to become the "new" Pac-12. That 100 percent would be the MWC plus two as you put it and yes, it would be a little stronger with OSU and WSU. That's not going to change perception. I'm not against a rebuilt Pac that includes the top teams in the MWC and some others. It's not my first hope for OSU but it would be OK. Bray no doubt has been told what the No. 1 plan is. I just strongly doubt that it's a full merger with the MWC. And yes, pay attention to what happens to the ACC. I'll just say that there's several potential ways the dominoes fall when FSU and others make a move to leave. And yes, it will have an effect on OSU and WSU. When that happens, it will entrench the Big Ten and SEC as the big two/superconference, which is where college football is headed anyway. That could lead to anything from the Big 12 expanding to both coasts and including OSU and WSU to the remains of the ACC expanding to the West Coast and adding OSU and WSU to a three-conference alliance with the Big 12 a newly-formed Pac consisting of OSU, WSU and the ex-Pac-12 teams and a revamped ACC. Or the ACC collapses completely, the Big 12 does not add OSU and WSU, so the Pac-2 is able to pick up Cal and Stanford and probably SMU as members of the rebuilt Pac. What is coming is going to create a new top tier and a second tier. That's going to drop most G5 conference teams to a third tier. Many of the G5 teams will be scrambling to find a way into the second tier. Most will fail. |
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Dec 15, 2023 10:47:38 GMT -8
You keep saying everyone will see a merged conference as the MWC+2. Only a few here say that, most every article I've read acknowledges a merged Pac-12 is worth far more than OSU and WSU joining the MWC, the podcasters pretty much the same. You've been one of these guys repeatedly talking about somehow joining a P4 conference or ex-Pac 12 teams somehow coming back, both are very very unlikely to happen. It will either be a merger, or grabbing the top 6-8 MWC and some other G5 teams. The only thing that stops that is the whole FBS imploding in the next 2 years (which could be more likely than joining a P4 conference or rebuilding with ex-Pac-12 members. My guess is Coach Bray probably knows what the plan for 2 years from now is intended to be better than any of us. You say it's being mocked on social media, well, you are one of the ones mocking it in my book. Basically, we all probably search for confirmation bias to some extent, maybe I tend to pay attention to the stuff that says the Pac is setting itself up to remain one of the 5 strongest conferences... not the MWC plus two, not the Old Pac 12 but still a stronger conference than the MWC. Brand does matter, it probably matters to the kids that he's bringing in as well. I'm not talking about OSU and WSU joining the MWC as regular members. That would only happen if the Pac-2 lost the court case and could not find anywhere else to go. I'm pretty sure no OSU fan wants that to happen. I'm against a full merger with the MWC. As in it's the Pac, but really it's OSU and WSU and all of the MWC teams to become the "new" Pac-12. That 100 percent would be the MWC plus two as you put it and yes, it would be a little stronger with OSU and WSU. That's not going to change perception. I'm not against a rebuilt Pac that includes the top teams in the MWC and some others. It's not my first hope for OSU but it would be OK. Bray no doubt has been told what the No. 1 plan is. I just strongly doubt that it's a full merger with the MWC. And yes, pay attention to what happens to the ACC. I'll just say that there's several potential ways the dominoes fall when FSU and others make a move to leave. And yes, it will have an effect on OSU and WSU. When that happens, it will entrench the Big Ten and SEC as the big two/superconference, which is where college football is headed anyway. That could lead to anything from the Big 12 expanding to both coasts and including OSU and WSU to the remains of the ACC expanding to the West Coast and adding OSU and WSU to a three-conference alliance with the Big 12 a newly-formed Pac consisting of OSU, WSU and the ex-Pac-12 teams and a revamped ACC. Or the ACC collapses completely, the Big 12 does not add OSU and WSU, so the Pac-2 is able to pick up Cal and Stanford and probably SMU as members of the rebuilt Pac. What is coming is going to create a new top tier and a second tier. That's going to drop most G5 conference teams to a third tier. Many of the G5 teams will be scrambling to find a way into the second tier. Most will fail. Based on the way that things are currently proceeding, it seems unlikely that the Pac-2 is willing to take the MWC whole-cloth. IF that were the case, then the move would be made right now in order to fulfill the minimum requirement to remain a conference. Instead, OSU and WSU have announced that they essentially intend to operate as independents for 2 years. So it's hard to understand why people are continually railing against a reverse merger with the MWC. That's clearly a last-ditch option. I think the Big12 and ACC are going to need to merge to survive, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pac-2 joined that superconference. Right now OSU and WSU can see that being a possibility on the horizon and they're not committing to anything until they determine what their collective options are and that won't be known for 2 years or so. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Dec 15, 2023 10:54:52 GMT -8
I'm not talking about OSU and WSU joining the MWC as regular members. That would only happen if the Pac-2 lost the court case and could not find anywhere else to go. I'm pretty sure no OSU fan wants that to happen. I'm against a full merger with the MWC. As in it's the Pac, but really it's OSU and WSU and all of the MWC teams to become the "new" Pac-12. That 100 percent would be the MWC plus two as you put it and yes, it would be a little stronger with OSU and WSU. That's not going to change perception. I'm not against a rebuilt Pac that includes the top teams in the MWC and some others. It's not my first hope for OSU but it would be OK. Bray no doubt has been told what the No. 1 plan is. I just strongly doubt that it's a full merger with the MWC. And yes, pay attention to what happens to the ACC. I'll just say that there's several potential ways the dominoes fall when FSU and others make a move to leave. And yes, it will have an effect on OSU and WSU. When that happens, it will entrench the Big Ten and SEC as the big two/superconference, which is where college football is headed anyway. That could lead to anything from the Big 12 expanding to both coasts and including OSU and WSU to the remains of the ACC expanding to the West Coast and adding OSU and WSU to a three-conference alliance with the Big 12 a newly-formed Pac consisting of OSU, WSU and the ex-Pac-12 teams and a revamped ACC. Or the ACC collapses completely, the Big 12 does not add OSU and WSU, so the Pac-2 is able to pick up Cal and Stanford and probably SMU as members of the rebuilt Pac. What is coming is going to create a new top tier and a second tier. That's going to drop most G5 conference teams to a third tier. Many of the G5 teams will be scrambling to find a way into the second tier. Most will fail. Based on the way that things are currently proceeding, it seems unlikely that the Pac-2 is willing to take the MWC whole-cloth. IF that were the case, then the move would be made right now in order to fulfill the minimum requirement to remain a conference. Instead, OSU and WSU have announced that they essentially intend to operate as independents for 2 years. So it's hard to understand why people are continually railing against a reverse merger with the MWC. That's clearly a last-ditch option. I think the Big12 and ACC are going to need to merge to survive, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pac-2 joined that superconference. Right now OSU and WSU can see that being a possibility on the horizon and they're not committing to anything until they determine what their collective options are and that won't be known for 2 years or so. That is not necessarily true. The Pac2 wants to remain two as long as possible to split the remaining Pac12 money. Merging now would mean splitting that money with the members of the MWC. A full merge still could happen after 2 years. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Dec 15, 2023 11:16:00 GMT -8
I'm not talking about OSU and WSU joining the MWC as regular members. That would only happen if the Pac-2 lost the court case and could not find anywhere else to go. I'm pretty sure no OSU fan wants that to happen. I'm against a full merger with the MWC. As in it's the Pac, but really it's OSU and WSU and all of the MWC teams to become the "new" Pac-12. That 100 percent would be the MWC plus two as you put it and yes, it would be a little stronger with OSU and WSU. That's not going to change perception. I'm not against a rebuilt Pac that includes the top teams in the MWC and some others. It's not my first hope for OSU but it would be OK. Bray no doubt has been told what the No. 1 plan is. I just strongly doubt that it's a full merger with the MWC. And yes, pay attention to what happens to the ACC. I'll just say that there's several potential ways the dominoes fall when FSU and others make a move to leave. And yes, it will have an effect on OSU and WSU. When that happens, it will entrench the Big Ten and SEC as the big two/superconference, which is where college football is headed anyway. That could lead to anything from the Big 12 expanding to both coasts and including OSU and WSU to the remains of the ACC expanding to the West Coast and adding OSU and WSU to a three-conference alliance with the Big 12 a newly-formed Pac consisting of OSU, WSU and the ex-Pac-12 teams and a revamped ACC. Or the ACC collapses completely, the Big 12 does not add OSU and WSU, so the Pac-2 is able to pick up Cal and Stanford and probably SMU as members of the rebuilt Pac. What is coming is going to create a new top tier and a second tier. That's going to drop most G5 conference teams to a third tier. Many of the G5 teams will be scrambling to find a way into the second tier. Most will fail. Based on the way that things are currently proceeding, it seems unlikely that the Pac-2 is willing to take the MWC whole-cloth. IF that were the case, then the move would be made right now in order to fulfill the minimum requirement to remain a conference. Instead, OSU and WSU have announced that they essentially intend to operate as independents for 2 years. So it's hard to understand why people are continually railing against a reverse merger with the MWC. That's clearly a last-ditch option. I think the Big12 and ACC are going to need to merge to survive, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pac-2 joined that superconference. Right now OSU and WSU can see that being a possibility on the horizon and they're not committing to anything until they determine what their collective options are and that won't be known for 2 years or so. I think the reason people who are pushing for a reverse merger with the MWC give for it not happening right now is the ongoing lawsuit and keeping the future funds. While that makes sense to an extent, it also could explain why there's been no real movement from a power conference to add OSU and WSU. I agree that the Big 12 knows it will have to make some major moves in order to stay entrenched in the second tier after the Big Ten/SEC. That means either further expansion that may or may not include the Pac-2 or an alliance with the remainder of the ACC and the Pac to form a superconference. IMO, the Pac-2 at the very least absorbs Stanford and Cal and probably SMU. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 15, 2023 11:33:57 GMT -8
I'm thinking there's a fair possibility the plan OSU and WSU want is for 6-7 of the top MWC teams to come over to the PAC, and another 4-6 teams from elsewhere to make a 12-14 team conference...
AND....
Because the MWC is suddenly playing ball with a short term agreement, at the risk of their best teams being poached, I think there might be enough votes in the MWC to do something along the lines of identifying several teams to bring in to keep the MWC alive, perhaps with that relegation idea intact.
That's the best of both worlds... keeping both the PAC 12 and the MWC alive means, for now, there would still be 10 FBS conferences and the Pac-12 would have a strong argument for remaining as a P5 conference in '26 and beyond.
I've thought for quite a while the full merger is not the top priority, ir it would have already been done. It's the easiest to accomplish and would solve a lot of immediate issues, but isn't as good as the option above. If Barnes an Co wanted to go that route I'd have been OK with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 15, 2023 14:44:02 GMT -8
The thing I most like about this year's schedule is the regionality. Seven home, three easy driving distance, the other two accessible by one nonstop plane trip. This goes away if you bring in teams from C-USA or the AAC.
And simply adding us and WSU is not going to raise the Big 12's national profile. I don't think there will be movement unless FSU decides to leave the ACC. And if that happens, I'm not so sure the ACC still isn't better off just sticking together without them, rather than breaking up into 2-3 different leagues.
|
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Dec 15, 2023 17:06:13 GMT -8
The thing I most like about this year's schedule is the regionality. Seven home, three easy driving distance, the other two accessible by one nonstop plane trip. This goes away if you bring in teams from C-USA or the AAC. And simply adding us and WSU is not going to raise the Big 12's national profile. I don't think there will be movement unless FSU decides to leave the ACC. And if that happens, I'm not so sure the ACC still isn't better off just sticking together without them, rather than breaking up into 2-3 different leagues. No, regionality will not go away. That's where pods come in, to keep that regionality. And if the Big-12 adds OSU and WSU, it's unlikely that it would be just to add those two. Florida State IS going to leave the ACC, it's just a matter of when. Clemson and North Carolina will follow with others also in the mix. When the SEC and or the Big Ten are done, the Big 12 will either get its pick of the remainders or possibly form an alliance with the ACC and the Pac to counter the SEC and Big Ten. If the remainder of the ACC decides to stick together and hold off Big 12 advances, one good way to regain some of that strength is to add the Pac-2 to join Stanford and Cal and SMU and probably a few MWC teams. |
|
|
|
Post by grayman on Dec 15, 2023 17:08:28 GMT -8
I'm thinking there's a fair possibility the plan OSU and WSU want is for 6-7 of the top MWC teams to come over to the PAC, and another 4-6 teams from elsewhere to make a 12-14 team conference... AND.... Because the MWC is suddenly playing ball with a short term agreement, at the risk of their best teams being poached, I think there might be enough votes in the MWC to do something along the lines of identifying several teams to bring in to keep the MWC alive, perhaps with that relegation idea intact. That's the best of both worlds... keeping both the PAC 12 and the MWC alive means, for now, there would still be 10 FBS conferences and the Pac-12 would have a strong argument for remaining as a P5 conference in '26 and beyond. I've thought for quite a while the full merger is not the top priority, ir it would have already been done. It's the easiest to accomplish and would solve a lot of immediate issues, but isn't as good as the option above. If Barnes an Co wanted to go that route I'd have been OK with it. This would also be a good situation if the ACC implodes and leaves Stanford, Cal and SMU up for grabs. |
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 15, 2023 17:49:10 GMT -8
I'm thinking there's a fair possibility the plan OSU and WSU want is for 6-7 of the top MWC teams to come over to the PAC, and another 4-6 teams from elsewhere to make a 12-14 team conference... AND.... Because the MWC is suddenly playing ball with a short term agreement, at the risk of their best teams being poached, I think there might be enough votes in the MWC to do something along the lines of identifying several teams to bring in to keep the MWC alive, perhaps with that relegation idea intact. That's the best of both worlds... keeping both the PAC 12 and the MWC alive means, for now, there would still be 10 FBS conferences and the Pac-12 would have a strong argument for remaining as a P5 conference in '26 and beyond. I've thought for quite a while the full merger is not the top priority, ir it would have already been done. It's the easiest to accomplish and would solve a lot of immediate issues, but isn't as good as the option above. If Barnes an Co wanted to go that route I'd have been OK with it. This would also be a good situation if the ACC implodes and leaves Stanford, Cal and SMU up for grabs. Find 3 more and make a 20 team 2 division relegation/promotion league. |
|
|
|
Post by mbabeav on Dec 15, 2023 17:59:35 GMT -8
This would also be a good situation if the ACC implodes and leaves Stanford, Cal and SMU up for grabs. Find 3 more and make a 20 team 2 division relegation/promotion league. I have never liked the idea of relegation. if Oregon State has a bad season and gets dumped down to the second level I can't see us recovering for years. |
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 15, 2023 18:03:52 GMT -8
Find 3 more and make a 20 team 2 division relegation/promotion league. I have never liked the idea of relegation. if Oregon State has a bad season and gets dumped down to the second level I can't see us recovering for years. It's awesome. It's what makes EFL exciting |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 15, 2023 19:32:55 GMT -8
I have never liked the idea of relegation. if Oregon State has a bad season and gets dumped down to the second level I can't see us recovering for years. It's awesome. It's what makes EFL exciting Premier League franchises don't have basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, soccer and golf teams that play in the same league. Why should a national-championship baseball team get relegated just because football sucked? |
|
|
|
Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 15, 2023 20:20:28 GMT -8
It's awesome. It's what makes EFL exciting Premier League franchises don't have basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, soccer and golf teams that play in the same league. Why should a national-championship baseball team get relegated just because football sucked? all the sports can be in the same league but different divisions as necessary. Football results would have nothing to do with baseball. Depending on the sport a 20 team football league wouldn't even have 10 teams in something else. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Dec 15, 2023 21:27:27 GMT -8
He was always committed to Smith and Lindgren, not OSU. So nice surprise. Good luck, hope his parents have bank to pay for plane tickets and like the hour drive from Detroit Metro to East Lansing. We'll get someone. The last couple days have shown our new staff can recruit and that the reports (many here) of the impending demise of our program are great exaggerated. Smith bailed on Chiles in the middle of the season (along with every other player). Yet Chiles and his parents think he won't do it again. They are only correct if it's the best thing for Smith. He has shown he doesn't care. I'm sure in Chiles' mind he's thinking that Smith only has to be there for maybe two years before he goes pro. He doesn't need Smith to commit for 5 years. Just a couple. Three at most. Maybe four. I'd bet on Smith being there that long. Even though he has his coaching staff and a handful of players from here, he still has a rebuild. Success his first year is going to be tough. |
|
