ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Aug 11, 2023 15:35:09 GMT -8
www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2023/08/oregon-state-president-jayathi-murthy-tells-campus-the-schools-future-is-preserving-the-pac-12.htmlHere is Murthy’s statement: “Since I last updated you immediately following the sudden events that destabilized the Pac-12 Conference one week ago, we are making progress in defining Oregon State University’s best paths forward. We continue to believe that preserving the Pac-12 is in the best interests of OSU student-athletes and the remaining universities, and so we are doing everything in our control to stabilize and rebuild the conference.
“As a trusted broker and convenor, Oregon State is playing an important role in navigating both the future of the Pac-12 and the realignment among universities across the Western United States more broadly. We are ready for this challenge. We are prepared for multiple possible scenarios and continue to pursue every opportunity for OSU student-athletes and the university. “All this week, Athletic Director Scott Barnes and I have been meeting with OSU student-athletes, staff, faculty, alumni and state and local government representatives to hear directly from them about how Friday’s events potentially impact students, our community, OSU and our state. I have heard feelings of frustration, anger and dismay. And I have heard your readiness to work together and to fight. “This week and next, we are rallying our supporters, speaking out, and lifting up the voices of student-athletes, alumni, fans and the communities we serve. Their stories need to be part of the conversation about what is happening with conference realignment. We also call on all Beavers and supporters to show up for OSU student athletes in Reser Stadium and across all our athletic venues. Continuing the momentum of last year’s success, which saw twelve Oregon State teams advance to the postseason, the nation’s eyes are upon us like never before, and we need all of Beaver National to rally with us. “On and off the field, our fight continues. As we work diligently to forge OSU Athletics’ path forward, I will continue to provide updates. Thank you for your continued support of OSU student-athletes, coaches, Athletics staff and the university.”
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Post by aggielarry on Aug 11, 2023 16:33:51 GMT -8
The dilemma for the PAC-4 is, of the four desirable characteristics of a conference mate, athletic success, academic excellence, significant market share in a large television market, and geographic proximity, there are no candidates who check all four boxes. Any school that checks all four boxes is already in a stronger conference, and has absolutely no desire to move. I'm not sure there are any that even check three. Pretty much the best you can do is two criteria. At that point, you have to decide which two you really, really care about. Life is not fair...
But, as that great philosopher Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need..."
I have no idea what Cal and Stanford will do. The best option for OSU and WSU would appear to be a merger with the MWC as presently constituted. All of the MWC schools understand the situation as outlined above. The MWC has the upper hand. Thinking you can get two, or four, or eight to jump ship is a pipe dream. And again, even the two "best" MWC schools only fulfill two criteria. Sooner or later, you're going to have to deal with harsh reality.
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Post by 93beav on Aug 11, 2023 17:12:49 GMT -8
The dilemma for the PAC-4 is, of the four desirable characteristics of a conference mate, athletic success, academic excellence, significant market share in a large television market, and geographic proximity, there are no candidates who check all four boxes. Any school that checks all four boxes is already in a stronger conference, and has absolutely no desire to move. I'm not sure there are any that even check three. Pretty much the best you can do is two criteria. At that point, you have to decide which two you really, really care about. Life is not fair... But, as that great philosopher Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need..." I have no idea what Cal and Stanford will do. The best option for OSU and WSU would appear to be a merger with the MWC as presently constituted. All of the MWC schools understand the situation as outlined above. The MWC has the upper hand. Thinking you can get two, or four, or eight to jump ship is a pipe dream. And again, even the two "best" MWC schools only fulfill two criteria. Sooner or later, you're going to have to deal with harsh reality. Academic success, while it would be great, is no longer a factor - unless Stanford and Cal say it is. Enforcing this breaks other characteristics. Significant market share in a large television market is also gone, depending upon what you consider large. I know people love to say Fresno controls Sacramento, but there is no evidence I've seen to support this. SMU only controls a fraction of Dallas (for now), but at least has potential. CSU controls part of Denver, but not the bulk - especially not with Deion at Colorado now. The geographic proximity could be accomplished through divisions. I continue to believe that the best path forward is the rumor floated the other day about SDSU wanting to form a conference out of the Pac-4, the best of the MW and the best of the AAC. Use divisions for all but maybe 1 or maybe 2 games to keep regionality and travel costs low, but it still allows you to get your team noticed in some other geographic regionality. You're going to need this if you want to enter national conversations. An only-west conference is already cursed by time zone, etc. If Cal and Stanford can deal with the commoners - Cal, Stanford, WSU and OSU, SDSU, CSU, and let's say UNLV and Fresno on the one side... on the other side SMU, Tulane, Memphis, UTSA and pick 4 on the other side. But doing this requires around a lot of buyout money. Also not sure there is enough media $$$ to go around. Sample OSU schedule: - OOC 1 - OOC 2 - OOC 3 - Cal - Fresno - SMU - SDSU - UNLV - Tulane - Stanford - CSU - WSU Olympic sports would still have plenty of places to play on the West coast, reducing travel costs and need for $$$. |
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Post by ag87 on Aug 11, 2023 17:38:47 GMT -8
The dilemma for the PAC-4 is, of the four desirable characteristics of a conference mate, athletic success, academic excellence, significant market share in a large television market, and geographic proximity, there are no candidates who check all four boxes. Any school that checks all four boxes is already in a stronger conference, and has absolutely no desire to move. I'm not sure there are any that even check three. Pretty much the best you can do is two criteria. At that point, you have to decide which two you really, really care about. Life is not fair... But, as that great philosopher Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need..." I have no idea what Cal and Stanford will do. The best option for OSU and WSU would appear to be a merger with the MWC as presently constituted. All of the MWC schools understand the situation as outlined above. The MWC has the upper hand. Thinking you can get two, or four, or eight to jump ship is a pipe dream. And again, even the two "best" MWC schools only fulfill two criteria. Sooner or later, you're going to have to deal with harsh reality. Thanks for your perspective. When you say "two 'best' MWC schools," I think you are referring to San Diego State as #1 but for #2 . . . . Fresno? Boise? Colorado State? UNLV? your school? I honestly have no idea. |
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Post by sparty on Aug 11, 2023 18:36:31 GMT -8
The dilemma for the PAC-4 is, of the four desirable characteristics of a conference mate, athletic success, academic excellence, significant market share in a large television market, and geographic proximity, there are no candidates who check all four boxes. Any school that checks all four boxes is already in a stronger conference, and has absolutely no desire to move. I'm not sure there are any that even check three. Pretty much the best you can do is two criteria. At that point, you have to decide which two you really, really care about. Life is not fair... But, as that great philosopher Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need..." I have no idea what Cal and Stanford will do. The best option for OSU and WSU would appear to be a merger with the MWC as presently constituted. All of the MWC schools understand the situation as outlined above. The MWC has the upper hand. Thinking you can get two, or four, or eight to jump ship is a pipe dream. And again, even the two "best" MWC schools only fulfill two criteria. Sooner or later, you're going to have to deal with harsh reality. What you say makes sense. Going to have to make decisions on what is realistic. Rebuild the pac would be nice but with what to bring in tv revenue? The MWC has the upper hand in all of this like you said but I think some are having a hard time admitting that. I think when all is said an done Stanford is going to do their own thing. If they go well you know the rest. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 11, 2023 19:15:23 GMT -8
From what I have heard, there has been some pushback from several programs in the MWC against expansion. They don't want WSU and OSU because they would be a tough opponent in FB and limit some current teams bowl opportunities.
I have no idea if this is true. Hard to trust anything you hear with all the lies by conference administrators and media speculation and click-bait stories by second-rate internet sites.
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Post by aggielarry on Aug 11, 2023 19:23:10 GMT -8
The dilemma for the PAC-4 is, of the four desirable characteristics of a conference mate, athletic success, academic excellence, significant market share in a large television market, and geographic proximity, there are no candidates who check all four boxes. Any school that checks all four boxes is already in a stronger conference, and has absolutely no desire to move. I'm not sure there are any that even check three. Pretty much the best you can do is two criteria. At that point, you have to decide which two you really, really care about. Life is not fair... But, as that great philosopher Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need..." I have no idea what Cal and Stanford will do. The best option for OSU and WSU would appear to be a merger with the MWC as presently constituted. All of the MWC schools understand the situation as outlined above. The MWC has the upper hand. Thinking you can get two, or four, or eight to jump ship is a pipe dream. And again, even the two "best" MWC schools only fulfill two criteria. Sooner or later, you're going to have to deal with harsh reality. Thanks for your perspective. When you say "two 'best' MWC schools," I think you are referring to San Diego State as #1 but for #2 . . . . Fresno? Boise? Colorado State? UNLV? your school? I honestly have no idea. That's why I put "best" in quotation marks. Best is pretty subjective, depending on which qualities you value. Five MWC schools are R1 universities: CSU, UNLV, Nevada, New Mexico, and USU. I'm too lazy to slog through the numbers, but I have heard repeatedly that over the last ten years, the top three teams in football have been Boise State, San Diego State, and Utah State. In Basketball, It's been San Diego State, Utah State, and probably Nevada. Again, no one is an ideal candidate. What everyone knows is: The buy-out fees for the MWC are substantial (by MWC standards), and would require the votes of nine of the eleven full members to waive. Very unlikely to happen, given that: Any rebuilt PAC-X is going to have a media deal not much better that what the MWC will get. A rebuilt PAC-X is going to be unstable, since Stanford, and probably Cal, would jump at the first opportunity. So, every MWC member knows that anyone jumping ship to the rebuilt PAC-X would have substantial up front costs, with absolutely no guarantee of a reasonable long term return. It's a pig in a poke. The current MWC on the other hand, is a stable, known quantity, reasonably geographically compact, similar universities, unlikely to see any drop in media revenue. No one in the MWC is going to win a national championship in football or men's basketball, but we all accept that. We're in it for regional competition with established rivals. Everyone in the MWC would be happy to have OSU and WSU. Frankly, I'm OK that Cal and Stanford would rather not join the conference; I'm not sure that I'd want them. I just don't think they'd fit in. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 11, 2023 20:32:19 GMT -8
There are NO buyout penalties if 9 or more of the MWC teams decide to go to the Pac.
Other stuff may be in the works. Big news about the 4 remaining schools hiring a consustant tonight.
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Post by p8nted on Aug 11, 2023 20:34:00 GMT -8
From what I have heard, there has been some pushback from several programs in the MWC against expansion. They don't want WSU and OSU because they would be a tough opponent in FB and limit some current teams bowl opportunities. I have no idea if this is true. Hard to trust anything you hear with all the lies by conference administrators and media speculation and click-bait stories by second-rate internet sites. I don't thing anyone on the MWC is saying that. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 11, 2023 20:59:35 GMT -8
There are NO buyout penalties if 9 or more of the MWC teams decide to go to the Pac. Other stuff may be in the works. Big news about the 4 remaining schools hiring a consultant tonight. Isn't the number seven? If seven or more MWC teams leave, there are no buyout penalties. Seven makes no sense. You may as well take seven and one other team or the full eight from the Mountain West. Eight would probably be: Air Force, Boise, Colorado State, Fresno, Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV, and Utah State. If one gets left out, it is probably Fresno, unless someone has a different read. Nobody in Sacramento or anywhere else watches Fresno. I could see Air Force, Fresno, and New Mexico shifting around. Hawai'i only plays in the Mountain West for football. San Jose State and Wyoming do not cut it, unless you buy San Jose State's baseball prowess. |
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Post by p8nted on Aug 11, 2023 21:28:14 GMT -8
There are NO buyout penalties if 9 or more of the MWC teams decide to go to the Pac. Other stuff may be in the works. Big news about the 4 remaining schools hiring a consultant tonight. Isn't the number seven? If seven or more MWC teams leave, there are no buyout penalties. Seven makes no sense. You may as well take seven and one other team or the full eight from the Mountain West. Eight would probably be: Air Force, Boise, Colorado State, Fresno, Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV, and Utah State. If one gets left out, it is probably Fresno, unless someone has a different read. Nobody in Sacramento or anywhere else watches Fresno. I could see Air Force, Fresno, and New Mexico shifting around. Hawai'i only plays in the Mountain West for football. San Jose State and Wyoming do not cut it, unless you buy San Jose State's baseball prowess. It takes 9 votes to dissolve the MWC or to leave without penalties. 3/4 of members and I don't believe Hawaii has a vote as a FB only member |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 11, 2023 21:29:40 GMT -8
There are NO buyout penalties if 9 or more of the MWC teams decide to go to the Pac. Other stuff may be in the works. Big news about the 4 remaining schools hiring a consultant tonight. Isn't the number seven? If seven or more MWC teams leave, there are no buyout penalties. Seven makes no sense. You may as well take seven and one other team or the full eight from the Mountain West. Eight would probably be: Air Force, Boise, Colorado State, Fresno, Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV, and Utah State. If one gets left out, it is probably Fresno, unless someone has a different read. Nobody in Sacramento or anywhere else watches Fresno. I could see Air Force, Fresno, and New Mexico shifting around. Hawai'i only plays in the Mountain West for football. San Jose State and Wyoming do not cut it, unless you buy San Jose State's baseball prowess. I saw 9 somewhere so I'm parroting that. I did see a 70% vote could trigger it somewhere else, which could also lead to 9 teams if they include Hawaii in voting rights, as 8 votes would only be 67% if rounded up. My main point is, there are situations where the MWC teams would not have to pay a buyout. A little factoid I ran across last night. Surprisingly, UNLV has apparently gone 91 years without playing in a bowl game. That streak is about 3X any other FBS team in the country. And.... I just looked it up, that source was very wrong..... I don't care, it sounded cool. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 11, 2023 21:50:30 GMT -8
Isn't the number seven? If seven or more MWC teams leave, there are no buyout penalties. Seven makes no sense. You may as well take seven and one other team or the full eight from the Mountain West. Eight would probably be: Air Force, Boise, Colorado State, Fresno, Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV, and Utah State. If one gets left out, it is probably Fresno, unless someone has a different read. Nobody in Sacramento or anywhere else watches Fresno. I could see Air Force, Fresno, and New Mexico shifting around. Hawai'i only plays in the Mountain West for football. San Jose State and Wyoming do not cut it, unless you buy San Jose State's baseball prowess. I saw 9 somewhere so I'm parroting that. I did see a 70% vote could trigger it somewhere else, which could also lead to 9 teams if they include Hawaii in voting rights, as 8 votes would only be 67% if rounded up. My main point is, there are situations where the MWC teams would not have to pay a buyout. A little factoid I ran across last night. Surprisingly, UNLV has apparently gone 91 years without playing in a bowl game. That streak is about 3X any other FBS team in the country. And.... I just looked it up, that source was very wrong..... I don't care, it sounded cool. If it's 70%, I don't know why Hawai'i would get a full vote, because they are only an affiliate member. Whatever. Nine, I guess. You could cut Hawai'i and San Jose State and go to 14 or trim another team (Wyoming seems like a no brainer, although I believe that Colorado State really wants to remain in the same conference) and then add a 14th team from somewhere else (SMU?) to get to 14. And then you get everyone to agree on minimum standards that everyone has to hit to stay in the conference or get a full share. That way, we get the Pac-12's full share and the Mountain West's full share. Mountain West has a contract with CBS through 2026 that can be renegotiated, if the conference changes the number of teams. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 12, 2023 10:22:38 GMT -8
Mr. Luck's first two questions to Stanford and Cal should be, "So tell me, what has your academic reputation done for you so far? Did it carry any weight or have any value to the Big Ten or the Big 12?"
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Post by lotrader on Aug 12, 2023 10:29:38 GMT -8
Preserving & Rebuilding the PAC would be the greatest FU to those who abandoned the PAC. I realize a complete long shot, but at this point the fact that it is being examined as an option pleases me.
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