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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 3, 2023 6:43:29 GMT -8
I think it's every school for themselves. The fuskies and the toilet seats dont care about their respective state mates I'm sure both state governments care...since they are funded via their respective taxpayers. Also, you would be crippling Wazzu and OSU of repaying improvement bonds the respective STATES issued. So I sure hope the States care! On previous reply / comment...the Cal v fUCLA situation is different...at the time, Cal wasn't demoted from a P5 conference...and possibly losing $20-25M annually. Cal would be a member of the new P12...AND... received between $2-10M/yr from fUCLA as a "Berkeley Tax" ...that was the deal Cal Regents made for Bruin departure. I don't know what the final figure ending up being, or if it is a % of the annual Big10 share for the Bruins. whOregon is a state run and funded institution...and can NOT act autonomously. So are you saying our state gub wouldn't allow whoregon to go to say the the big 10 while we are relegated to the MW? I'd like to know how much power our gub actually has in all of this. |
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Post by nebraskabeav on Aug 3, 2023 6:43:33 GMT -8
If we get demoted, I'm done with college athletics. It's a crime. We have quality teams (now) and are a Power 5 team. There's no reason either WSU or OSU should be left behind. If we are, then it's clear that college athletics is moving in a direction that I'm no longer interested in. How can you support that insanity? Love OSU 'til I die. But maybe I'll look for other ways to show it. The past 5 years, I have only really given my attention to Oregon State Athletics, Pac-12 Athletics, and Husker Football. I will now Only be watching EVERY Oregon State athletic event this season on the Pac-12 and other networks. After this season, if Oregon State and Washington State are demoted to the MWC, then I will only watch Oregon State, MWC home games. I am not sure boycotting is the right move in this instance, but perhaps if the entire country this season made a point to watch Oregon State on CBS, FS1, ESPN, etc. then we would show leaving us out in the cold is a slap in the face.
I am beyond disappointed with the leadership of George Kliavkoff, but I'm more dissappointed for fans saying last season, "Well, we'll have the nicest stadium in the MWC in 2024." That is exactly why Oregon State's brand is looked at as non-existent! Because Beavers fans DO NOT know that their fan influence on social media, putting butts in the seats whether the product is Gary Anderson or Jonathan Smith. We as fans preach, "It's all about the kids!" Is it though? Seems like Oregon State has a fair weather fan problem while Oregon has a bandwagon fan problem.
Oregon State fits and belongs in the Big XII, but because Oregon State fans didn't voice that for the past year to year and a half, we aren't being considered per sports media pundits. Oregon screamed, kicked, yelled, tweeted, memed and did everything they could as a "rabid" fan base to will themselves to get a bid from BOTH Big XII and B1G. We have a business marketing program for goodness sakes, do we not know how to get our fans to become influencers on Twitter and other social media to take pride in the university? Maybe Oregon State should have a minor program teaching students how to become influencers and have internships for becoming an influencer on social media?
I'm off my soap box now, but I am livid at our fan base for not doing more to showcase we belong in the Big XII, because we absolutely do belong.
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Post by sparty on Aug 3, 2023 6:47:42 GMT -8
If we get demoted, I'm done with college athletics. It's a crime. We have quality teams (now) and are a Power 5 team. There's no reason either WSU or OSU should be left behind. If we are, then it's clear that college athletics is moving in a direction that I'm no longer interested in. How can you support that insanity? Love OSU 'til I die. But maybe I'll look for other ways to show it. The past 5 years, I have only really given my attention to Oregon State Athletics, Pac-12 Athletics, and Husker Football. I will now Only be watching EVERY Oregon State athletic event this season on the Pac-12 and other networks. After this season, if Oregon State and Washington State are demoted to the MWC, then I will only watch Oregon State, MWC home games. I am not sure boycotting is the right move in this instance, but perhaps if the entire country this season made a point to watch Oregon State on CBS, FS1, ESPN, etc. then we would show leaving us out in the cold is a slap in the face.
I am beyond disappointed with the leadership of George Kliavkoff, but I'm more dissappointed for fans saying last season, "Well, we'll have the nicest stadium in the MWC in 2024." That is exactly why Oregon State's brand is looked at as non-existent! Because Beavers fans DO NOT know that their fan influence on social media, putting butts in the seats whether the product is Gary Anderson or Jonathan Smith. We as fans preach, "It's all about the kids!" Is it though? Seems like Oregon State has a fair weather fan problem while Oregon has a bandwagon fan problem.
Oregon State fits and belongs in the Big XII, but because Oregon State fans didn't voice that for the past year to year and a half, we aren't being considered per sports media pundits. Oregon screamed, kicked, yelled, tweeted, memed and did everything they could as a "rabid" fan base to will themselves to get a bid from BOTH Big XII and B1G. We have a business marketing program for goodness sakes, do we not know how to get our fans to become influencers on Twitter and other social media to take pride in the university? Maybe Oregon State should have a minor program teaching students how to become influencers and have internships for becoming an influencer on social media?
I'm off my soap box now, but I am livid at our fan base for not doing more to showcase we belong in the Big XII, because we absolutely do belong.
Yet you’re not livid with Barnes or the past OSU President and blame the fans. That is interesting. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 3, 2023 6:53:45 GMT -8
If we get demoted, I'm done with college athletics. It's a crime. We have quality teams (now) and are a Power 5 team. There's no reason either WSU or OSU should be left behind. If we are, then it's clear that college athletics is moving in a direction that I'm no longer interested in. How can you support that insanity? Love OSU 'til I die. But maybe I'll look for other ways to show it. The past 5 years, I have only really given my attention to Oregon State Athletics, Pac-12 Athletics, and Husker Football. I will now Only be watching EVERY Oregon State athletic event this season on the Pac-12 and other networks. After this season, if Oregon State and Washington State are demoted to the MWC, then I will only watch Oregon State, MWC home games. I am not sure boycotting is the right move in this instance, but perhaps if the entire country this season made a point to watch Oregon State on CBS, FS1, ESPN, etc. then we would show leaving us out in the cold is a slap in the face.
I am beyond disappointed with the leadership of George Kliavkoff, but I'm more dissappointed for fans saying last season, "Well, we'll have the nicest stadium in the MWC in 2024." That is exactly why Oregon State's brand is looked at as non-existent! Because Beavers fans DO NOT know that their fan influence on social media, putting butts in the seats whether the product is Gary Anderson or Jonathan Smith. We as fans preach, "It's all about the kids!" Is it though? Seems like Oregon State has a fair weather fan problem while Oregon has a bandwagon fan problem.
Oregon State fits and belongs in the Big XII, but because Oregon State fans didn't voice that for the past year to year and a half, we aren't being considered per sports media pundits. Oregon screamed, kicked, yelled, tweeted, memed and did everything they could as a "rabid" fan base to will themselves to get a bid from BOTH Big XII and B1G. We have a business marketing program for goodness sakes, do we not know how to get our fans to become influencers on Twitter and other social media to take pride in the university? Maybe Oregon State should have a minor program teaching students how to become influencers and have internships for becoming an influencer on social media?
I'm off my soap box now, but I am livid at our fan base for not doing more to showcase we belong in the Big XII, because we absolutely do belong.
Some good points here.......decades of mediocre, to really bad football, will beat down a fanbase. It's unfortunate we had go thru the ando era, and the timing of it. We needed to be building up for what is now right in front of us.......credit to Smith for doing what he's done, in a short amount of time. I don't really want to know all the whys, and why nots in all this re-alignment. I do know big picture is TV money, and potential viewers. IMO, us having a really bad men's B ball program really hurts our attractiveness.....as well as the previously mentioned ando era in football. Our "best college town in the Pac 12" isn't really a positive in this whole thing either. Having a huge amount of eyes on TV's is. |
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Post by nebraskabeav on Aug 3, 2023 7:12:00 GMT -8
The problem is that we will not have the $$ to pay Smith and staff. Especially with our quitter, Eyeore fan base that wants to pull all of their donations and season tickets. You, judge, have a of “blame the blameless” mentality. The overwhelming majority of Beaver fans are NOT to blame for any of this s%#t. We’ve supported the program(s) in “sickness and in health.” Sometimes it is simply OVER. "Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor?" - Animal House
It's only just begun! Have any of you not been watching Jonathan Smith teams? Have you not bought in as a fan that when the chips are down, do you just roll over, quit and die? Or do you continue to fight until that clock hits 0:00 at the end of the 4th quarter. Was it over when Gulbranson threw THE pass to Tre'Shaun Harrison for the game winning TD against Stanford? Was it over when Colorado went up 31-3 against Oregon State to start the second half in 2018? NO Oregon State ended up winning in Overtime and defeating Colorado! Was it over when Oregon State was down 31-10 with 20 minutes to go in the game against Oregon? NO We ran it down their F$%#$% throats and wore those pansy ass whiners out and outscored them 28-3 in 20 minutes! How many times have they done that to us?! More than we've done it to them, for sure! We're on the other side of them now. Oregon State will not quit ever! Nor should any of you who are going to give up season tickets and fill Reser and GIll, and Goss, and all the other sports! You want to SHOW those TV networks how wrong they were? Then get into the fight by watching every away game on TV. Make sure we sellout Reser every game even if it's UC Davis or hell even Western Oregon in MBB Exhibition game! In my BA 381 class, we are going over our cover letters and resumes. On the resume, it's "Action Verb + Results + Method" As a university fan base, What is your action verb going to be to SHOW not tell the Media and other conferences they were wrong? We've been doing a lot of talk, but what action are we not doing?
My Resume bullet points would look like this:
Oregon State University 1995 to Present Fan and Student - Influenced Oregon State Fan base to rally behind our teams by adding 40 new followers to my twitter account,
- interacted with Midwest Media members to showcase our support for Oregon State athletics and to get them to talk about our University on their radio, Social Media, and video produced content
- Watched Every Oregon State football, Basketball, and Baseball games when they were broadcasted on Streaming or Linear TV.
- Attended Oregon State vs Florida in the Las Vegas Bowl to show support for our Student Athletes and see them get to their 3rd 10 Win Season in program history
- Attended the top-rated Online Business Program in the country and working full time to support my family with an expected graduation date of Dec 2025 to complete my bachelor's in Business Administration
Many of you have been long time fans, players, parents of players, etc. I do not want to see those legacies fizzle out and become irrelevant, all because times change, and we didn't change with them. We will never get back to the BCS era. That ship has sailed. What we can do; however, is continuing to show support to those players who have bought in to Coach Smith's philosophy and are here to play and represent Oregon State. They aren't threatening to leave transfer, or otherwise. Don't quit on them, because they will not quit on you.
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Post by nebraskabeav on Aug 3, 2023 7:19:56 GMT -8
The past 5 years, I have only really given my attention to Oregon State Athletics, Pac-12 Athletics, and Husker Football. I will now Only be watching EVERY Oregon State athletic event this season on the Pac-12 and other networks. After this season, if Oregon State and Washington State are demoted to the MWC, then I will only watch Oregon State, MWC home games. I am not sure boycotting is the right move in this instance, but perhaps if the entire country this season made a point to watch Oregon State on CBS, FS1, ESPN, etc. then we would show leaving us out in the cold is a slap in the face.
I am beyond disappointed with the leadership of George Kliavkoff, but I'm more dissappointed for fans saying last season, "Well, we'll have the nicest stadium in the MWC in 2024." That is exactly why Oregon State's brand is looked at as non-existent! Because Beavers fans DO NOT know that their fan influence on social media, putting butts in the seats whether the product is Gary Anderson or Jonathan Smith. We as fans preach, "It's all about the kids!" Is it though? Seems like Oregon State has a fair weather fan problem while Oregon has a bandwagon fan problem.
Oregon State fits and belongs in the Big XII, but because Oregon State fans didn't voice that for the past year to year and a half, we aren't being considered per sports media pundits. Oregon screamed, kicked, yelled, tweeted, memed and did everything they could as a "rabid" fan base to will themselves to get a bid from BOTH Big XII and B1G. We have a business marketing program for goodness sakes, do we not know how to get our fans to become influencers on Twitter and other social media to take pride in the university? Maybe Oregon State should have a minor program teaching students how to become influencers and have internships for becoming an influencer on social media?
I'm off my soap box now, but I am livid at our fan base for not doing more to showcase we belong in the Big XII, because we absolutely do belong.
Yet you’re not livid with Barnes or the past OSU President and blame the fans. That is interesting. President Ray didn't care about Athletics, he cared about Academics. Scott Barnes has done a lot for the University in terms of upgrading facilities, hiring Jonathan Smith and giving him everything he needs to recruit and succeed for the foreseeable future. I am not "blaming" fans in the sense of "it's your fault" I'm saying fans didn't do enough or do what was necessary to promote and create a social influenced brand like duck fans did over the years. Ducks put a billboard of Joey Harrington in Downtown NYC in 2000. That was a huge marketing ploy! Oregon State's presence is looked at as weak and non-existent outside the internal fan base. I live in Nebraska and every time I bring up Oregon State their response is, "Cute little team. How About Oregon and Washington though, man! Great programs!" In this day and age, it's the loudest "Squeaky annoying wheel' so to speak that gets notoriety in the press, not the "What have you done for me lately? Product on the field speaks for itself." Oregon State doesn't have that luxury and neither did Oregon and Oregon has a brand in large part to Uncle Phil, but that won't last forever for them. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Aug 3, 2023 7:31:23 GMT -8
Yet you’re not livid with Barnes or the past OSU President and blame the fans. That is interesting. President Ray didn't care about Athletics, he cared about Academics. Scott Barnes has done a lot for the University in terms of upgrading facilities, hiring Jonathan Smith and giving him everything he needs to recruit and succeed for the foreseeable future. I am not "blaming" fans in the sense of "it's your fault" I'm saying fans didn't do enough or do what was necessary to promote and create a social influenced brand like duck fans did over the years. Ducks put a billboard of Joey Harrington in Downtown NYC in 2000. That was a huge marketing ploy! Oregon State's presence is looked at as weak and non-existent outside the internal fan base. I live in Nebraska and every time I bring up Oregon State their response is, "Cute little team. How About Oregon and Washington though, man! Great programs!" In this day and age, it's the loudest "Squeaky annoying wheel' so to speak that gets notoriety in the press, not the "What have you done for me lately? Product on the field speaks for itself." Oregon State doesn't have that luxury and neither did Oregon and Oregon has a brand in large part to Uncle Phil, but that won't last forever for them. You comment about President Ray is incorrect. He cared a lot about athletics. However, that does not mean he does not share in the blame for the current situation. I blame the Pac 12 Presidents more than George K for this. They got beat to the punch by the Big 12 and the Big 10 and now we are left in a bad situation. |
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Post by nebraskabeav on Aug 3, 2023 7:49:58 GMT -8
President Ray didn't care about Athletics, he cared about Academics. Scott Barnes has done a lot for the University in terms of upgrading facilities, hiring Jonathan Smith and giving him everything he needs to recruit and succeed for the foreseeable future. I am not "blaming" fans in the sense of "it's your fault" I'm saying fans didn't do enough or do what was necessary to promote and create a social influenced brand like duck fans did over the years. Ducks put a billboard of Joey Harrington in Downtown NYC in 2000. That was a huge marketing ploy! Oregon State's presence is looked at as weak and non-existent outside the internal fan base. I live in Nebraska and every time I bring up Oregon State their response is, "Cute little team. How About Oregon and Washington though, man! Great programs!" In this day and age, it's the loudest "Squeaky annoying wheel' so to speak that gets notoriety in the press, not the "What have you done for me lately? Product on the field speaks for itself." Oregon State doesn't have that luxury and neither did Oregon and Oregon has a brand in large part to Uncle Phil, but that won't last forever for them. You comment about President Ray is incorrect. He cared a lot about athletics. However, that does not mean he does not share in the blame for the current situation. I blame the Pac 12 Presidents more than George K for this. They got beat to the punch by the Big 12 and the Big 10 and now we are left in a bad situation. President Ray took care of the academics, Bob DeCarolis took care of the Athletics. Scott Barnes has shown he knows what it takes to run a P5 Athletic program. Big XII is putting an emphasis on Men's basketball. B1G is putting an emphasis on Football and MBB, but heavy on Football. SEC is heavy on Football. Could the Oregon State and WSU become autonomous and add G5 teams to the Pac-12 and elevate MWC teams to a P5 level if the Apple TV deal remains the same no matter how many teams go to the B1G or Big XII? I would be very curious if this realignment actually improves 10-18 G5 teams by joining the Pac-12 Conference with Oregon State and WSU finally getting out from under Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA? This could actually be a very good thing for Oregon State if the $1B Apple TV+ media deal is still intact to add teams. That would give Oregon State and WSU $50M each to operate a year and give the G5 teams coming in $12M for the first year, using $8M towards their buyout, $70M for the comcast ordeal which each team is on the hook for of about $5.83M each equalling an additioanal $58.3M to use for buyouts for a total of $17.833M for each teams buyout in the first year. That's half of the MWC buyout. They would get the full share of $20M+ incentives at the time of the new media rights deal.
All of that is contingent upon Apple TV still willing to pay the Pac-12 the same money without the other 7 schools.
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Post by Judge Smails on Aug 3, 2023 7:51:23 GMT -8
You comment about President Ray is incorrect. He cared a lot about athletics. However, that does not mean he does not share in the blame for the current situation. I blame the Pac 12 Presidents more than George K for this. They got beat to the punch by the Big 12 and the Big 10 and now we are left in a bad situation. President Ray took care of the academics, Bob DeCarolis took care of the Athletics. Scott Barnes has shown he knows what it takes to run a P5 Athletic program. Big XII is putting an emphasis on Men's basketball. B1G is putting an emphasis on Football and MBB, but heavy on Football. SEC is heavy on Football. Could the Oregon State and WSU become autonomous and add G5 teams to the Pac-12 and elevate MWC teams to a P5 level if the Apple TV deal remains the same no matter how many teams go to the B1G or Big XII? I would be very curious if this realignment actually improves 10-18 G5 teams by joining the Pac-12 Conference with Oregon State and WSU finally getting out from under Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA? This could actually be a very good thing for Oregon State if the $1B Apple TV+ media deal is still intact to add teams. That would give Oregon State and WSU $50M each to operate a year and give the G5 teams coming in $12M for the first year, using $8M towards their buyout, $70M for the comcast ordeal which each team is on the hook for of about $5.83M each equalling an additioanal $58.3M to use for buyouts for a total of $17.833M for each teams buyout in the first year. That's half of the MWC buyout. They would get the full share of $20M+ incentives at the time of the new media rights deal.
All of that is contingent upon Apple TV still willing to pay the Pac-12 the same money without the other 7 schools.
Your still incorrect in regards to President Ray. I've known him for the past 20 years and that statement is just not correct. |
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Post by bvrbred on Aug 3, 2023 8:20:37 GMT -8
I agree with you on Ray. But I think his leadership on the athletics side became ineffective over time. He delegated too much to DeCarolis, who IMO stayed way too long in the job.
People have also been critical of Ray for being too supportive of Larry Scott. Assuming they are right, doesn't mean he didn't care about athletics. Just means his athletics leadership wasn't effective enough.
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Post by nebraskabeav on Aug 3, 2023 8:58:05 GMT -8
I agree with you on Ray. But I think his leadership on the athletics side became ineffective over time. He delegated too much to DeCarolis, who IMO stayed way too long in the job. People have also been critical of Ray for being too supportive of Larry Scott. Assuming they are right, doesn't mean he didn't care about athletics. Just means his athletics leadership wasn't effective enough. You get me! lol You said what I was unable to say. Succinctly. So thank you. Ray was a great President for the University, but his and Bob's leaderships styles seemed more passive and slow to act in a lot of ways. What Scott Barnes has gotten accomplished in a short span of time is aggressive and active leadership. Bob Decarolis hired Gary Andersen, Then medically retired in 2015 and enter Todd Stansbury for a year and then 2016 Scott Barnes is hired. If MBB could ever get itself to play consistent basketball, then Oregon State would be in a prime position to compete in any sport at any time.
There is rumors going around the ACC is trying to get ESPN to fork over more moeny to Merge Pac-12 and ACC to revamp their media deal. Sounds like a hail mary to me, but this plan includes all Pac8 teams if Arizona does defect to the Big XII.
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 3, 2023 9:01:42 GMT -8
Disappointed in a lot of the responses!!! I'm pissed about the possible outcome but I will always support my Beavers! This is when they need the fans more than ever. If we move to the MWC so be it. Just look at TCU and all the conference changes they've had over the years and where did they end up last year? Get off your asses!! Sure TCU has changed conferences over the years and made it to the finals. But if OSU falls to the MWc OSU will NEVER have a chance for the playoffs. NEVER. If OSU were a Top 12 team in the CFP they would indeed make it... |
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Post by sparty on Aug 3, 2023 9:06:06 GMT -8
I agree with you on Ray. But I think his leadership on the athletics side became ineffective over time. He delegated too much to DeCarolis, who IMO stayed way too long in the job. People have also been critical of Ray for being too supportive of Larry Scott. Assuming they are right, doesn't mean he didn't care about athletics. Just means his athletics leadership wasn't effective enough. Judge is correct on this. Do you all notice many of the conversations we have over the years all ways end up with athletics and marketing. We laughed at the bill boards the ucks would put up. Still got their name out in the Midwest and east coast. Our marketing barely was out of the state. Even Boise state does a better job of it |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 3, 2023 9:14:28 GMT -8
The past 5 years, I have only really given my attention to Oregon State Athletics, Pac-12 Athletics, and Husker Football. I will now Only be watching EVERY Oregon State athletic event this season on the Pac-12 and other networks. After this season, if Oregon State and Washington State are demoted to the MWC, then I will only watch Oregon State, MWC home games. I am not sure boycotting is the right move in this instance, but perhaps if the entire country this season made a point to watch Oregon State on CBS, FS1, ESPN, etc. then we would show leaving us out in the cold is a slap in the face.
I am beyond disappointed with the leadership of George Kliavkoff, but I'm more dissappointed for fans saying last season, "Well, we'll have the nicest stadium in the MWC in 2024." That is exactly why Oregon State's brand is looked at as non-existent! Because Beavers fans DO NOT know that their fan influence on social media, putting butts in the seats whether the product is Gary Anderson or Jonathan Smith. We as fans preach, "It's all about the kids!" Is it though? Seems like Oregon State has a fair weather fan problem while Oregon has a bandwagon fan problem.
Oregon State fits and belongs in the Big XII, but because Oregon State fans didn't voice that for the past year to year and a half, we aren't being considered per sports media pundits. Oregon screamed, kicked, yelled, tweeted, memed and did everything they could as a "rabid" fan base to will themselves to get a bid from BOTH Big XII and B1G. We have a business marketing program for goodness sakes, do we not know how to get our fans to become influencers on Twitter and other social media to take pride in the university? Maybe Oregon State should have a minor program teaching students how to become influencers and have internships for becoming an influencer on social media?
I'm off my soap box now, but I am livid at our fan base for not doing more to showcase we belong in the Big XII, because we absolutely do belong.
Yet you’re not livid with Barnes or the past OSU President and blame the fans. That is interesting. Yeah... like the fan base and their social media posts determines conference commissioners/boards to invite teams!? LOL Yeah... "us" damn fans if we'd just have given a damn for the last ?? years Larry and George wouldn't even have a job. OSU would be headed to the B10 before USC and UCLA and be collecting $40+ mil/year (although I think they get a partial share for a time?). And of course, if your personal resume isn't up to snuff what do you know anyway. Hmmmm... oh ya, 1995? That's still in "rookie" territory compared to me and most of those I know. So, I'm going to say most of us know a little about being an OSU fan, not to mention the reality of what input fans have in whole conference realignment fiasco. Maybe if every fan in the Oregon TV market bought an extra 3-4 TVs and had them tuned to Pac12 football nonstop... and maybe all have several social media accounts and had a bot to constantly post Pac12 blurbs??? Yeah... guess not. |
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Post by bvrbred on Aug 3, 2023 9:16:23 GMT -8
Marketing is essential, always has been, but you have to have something to market. In 1962 Spec Keene and Kerry Eggers' dad did a letter writing campaign to every sports outlet in the country, telling them of Terry Baker's latest exploits. Without that campaign, people either wouldn't have heard of him or wouldn't have paid attention regardless. But, Terry Baker was the total offense leader for the country. So they paid attention.
People point to billboards and gimmicks like pink uniforms with feathers, and laugh at Oregon. We would still be laughing if they couldn't play football. IMO people started to notice Oregon, and take it seriously, because of Chip Kelly and what he was doing on the football field.
We had very little, or essentially nothing, to market between 2013 and 2021. Our best shot for national recognition was in the wake of the Fiesta Bowl. But Erickson flopped at 5-6.
None of this means we can't market going forward. But we have to win football games. If we're beating the likes of San Jose State, Fresno State, and Hawaii is anyone on a national level going to care? I dunno.
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