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Post by EmeraldEmpire on Jul 29, 2023 21:57:02 GMT -8
If Gonzaga could somehow pull a rabbit out of their hat and get a stadium and start a football program (how much would it take to start a program from scratch these days anyways? Probably multiples of what it takes to run an existing program) and get invited to the conference, I'd consider what could happen to WSU akin to what could happen to OSU if Portland State were invited to the conference, except that PSU has about 3.5 times the students that Gonzaga has. Both are schools in reasonably big to big metro areas within 80-90 miles of existing schools in small metro areas. People think the Bay Area schools would worry about Fresno taking their fanbase, this would be that in multiples. If we are only looking at markets, these days OSU and U of O wouldn’t be accepted. Same market. I think it would be an interesting experiment. And I think Gonzaga and Santa Clara would hold some recruiting advantages over other schools so might be able to make that leap from 0 to 60 faster than other schools. Where in the heck would they play their home football games though ... I see as far as Gonzaga goes they are completing a new stadium in Spokane to replace the old Joe Albi stadium where the Cougs used to play some games back in the day but that is only going to seat 5,000 people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Spokane_Stadium |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 29, 2023 22:02:09 GMT -8
If Gonzaga could somehow pull a rabbit out of their hat and get a stadium and start a football program (how much would it take to start a program from scratch these days anyways? Probably multiples of what it takes to run an existing program) and get invited to the conference, I'd consider what could happen to WSU akin to what could happen to OSU if Portland State were invited to the conference, except that PSU has about 3.5 times the students that Gonzaga has. Both are schools in reasonably big to big metro areas within 80-90 miles of existing schools in small metro areas. People think the Bay Area schools would worry about Fresno taking their fanbase, this would be that in multiples. If we are only looking at markets, these days OSU and U of O wouldn’t be accepted. Same market. I think it would be an interesting experiment. And I think Gonzaga and Santa Clara would hold some recruiting advantages over other schools so might be able to make that leap from 0 to 60 faster than other schools. OSU, UO and WSU are all small market schools Gonzaga has a larger metro than any of them and Santa Clara has a much much larger metro area. Funny thing, we have people here insisting the Bay area schools would nix Fresno, how do you think they'd take to adding a school that's right on top of them? I think the big issue here would be money available at small schools. Schools with a 5k undergraduate population likely have a fraction of the alumni of schools with 5X that. Adding small schools with no football program and expecting them to get up to speed fast because it would be an "interesting" experiment reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's van. Is this really the time to try interesting experiments with the conference? |
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Post by irimi on Jul 29, 2023 22:38:47 GMT -8
If we are only looking at markets, these days OSU and U of O wouldn’t be accepted. Same market. I think it would be an interesting experiment. And I think Gonzaga and Santa Clara would hold some recruiting advantages over other schools so might be able to make that leap from 0 to 60 faster than other schools. OSU, UO and WSU are all small market schools Gonzaga has a larger metro than any of them and Santa Clara has a much much larger metro area. Funny thing, we have people here insisting the Bay area schools would nix Fresno, how do you think they'd take to adding a school that's right on top of them? I think the big issue here would be money available at small schools. Schools with a 5k undergraduate population likely have a fraction of the alumni of schools with 5X that. Adding small schools with no football program and expecting them to get up to speed fast because it would be an "interesting" experiment reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's van. Is this really the time to try interesting experiments with the conference? For being drunk and stoopid, you sure are logical. No, it isn’t perhaps the time and the move would look desperate, which probably would be the wrong look. No, the conference needs to do something and shut us all up. |
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Post by easyheat on Jul 29, 2023 23:10:08 GMT -8
Gonzaga, Few and his A.D. have very little interest in the PAC-12. That has been acknowledged with Boosters.
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Post by Werebeaver on Jul 30, 2023 5:05:19 GMT -8
Gonzaga, Few and his A.D. have very little interest in the PAC-12. That has been acknowledged with Boosters. The disinterest is mutual. |
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Post by sparty on Jul 30, 2023 5:12:53 GMT -8
The statements made by President Muthy and AD Barnes did not solidify their commitment to the conference. What President Murthy stated was
'Oregon State University joins with other Pac-12 members (doesn't say current, former, remaining, or otherwise) in reaffirming our commitment to the long-term strength and vitality of the conference. (doesn't state reaffirming our commitment to the Pac-12 for the long-term strength and vitality of the conference). We are united by our shared values our passion for the highest level of intercollegiate athletic competition, our leadership roles as Tier 1 research universities and our support for student-athletes; academic and athletic success'
This reads more like a resignation letter, cover letter on a resume, or an exit statement. If They wanted to use these words and sound sincere with their committment to the conference, they would phrse it more direct than indirect and backhandedly.
Even so, it’s a damn sight more than we’ve seen from the Yucks or the Fuskies.
Maybe there is a reason why the rest of the Pac AD's are not chiming in? This guy in the article may be on to something.
“We want to make the Pac-12 work for us … but if not, we won’t be devastated.”
We’re only speculating — none of this is fact — but it could certainly represent Oregon’s actual attitude to everything unfolding in the Pac-12 right now. It might also represent Washington’s view as well. Let’s play along with this hypothetical......................................Phrased differently: Were Oregon and Washington secretly hoping for the demise of the Pac-12 all along, so that we all move to 20-team super-conferences in college sports and put an end to the previous model of conference membership (no Power Five conference with more than 16 schools)?"
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 30, 2023 5:34:46 GMT -8
I’m amazed by how many people think you can just start up a football team and compete in a big conference……fyi-it’s impossible. Perhaps because we’ve lived through expansion in many leagues, so we know it can be possible. It doesn’t mean it will happen or that it is even what the schools want. Who’s to say it is impossible? You? Lol If you’re comparing expansion in a professional league to expansion in a Power 5 football conference, those are 2 completely different things. Pro expansion teams get to pick players from other teams and get preferential draft picks. That’s not how starting up a college football team works. |
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Post by irimi on Jul 30, 2023 6:06:55 GMT -8
Perhaps because we’ve lived through expansion in many leagues, so we know it can be possible. It doesn’t mean it will happen or that it is even what the schools want. Who’s to say it is impossible? You? Lol If you’re comparing expansion in a professional league to expansion in a Power 5 football conference, those are 2 completely different things. Pro expansion teams get to pick players from other teams and get preferential draft picks. That’s not how starting up a college football team works. Right. But college players are not under contract like pros are. They can transfer. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 30, 2023 7:22:00 GMT -8
If you’re comparing expansion in a professional league to expansion in a Power 5 football conference, those are 2 completely different things. Pro expansion teams get to pick players from other teams and get preferential draft picks. That’s not how starting up a college football team works. Right. But college players are not under contract like pros are. They can transfer. Yes, they can transfer, but the good players are not transferring to a start-up program. |
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Post by irimi on Jul 30, 2023 7:34:44 GMT -8
Right. But college players are not under contract like pros are. They can transfer. Yes, they can transfer, but the good players are not transferring to a start-up program. Backups transfer all the time for more playing time. And malcontents. Remember McMaryion? The question is if they’d transfer to a startup program. I would put money on being able to draw a lot of talent from juco’s pretty much immediately. Build the team like Smith has. If you get a good coach, then I think you could put together a winning team in 3-5 years. |
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Post by bvrbred on Jul 30, 2023 7:49:11 GMT -8
Even so, it’s a damn sight more than we’ve seen from the Yucks or the Fuskies.
Maybe there is a reason why the rest of the Pac AD's are not chiming in? This guy in the article may be on to something.
“We want to make the Pac-12 work for us … but if not, we won’t be devastated.”
We’re only speculating — none of this is fact — but it could certainly represent Oregon’s actual attitude to everything unfolding in the Pac-12 right now. It might also represent Washington’s view as well. Let’s play along with this hypothetical......................................Phrased differently: Were Oregon and Washington secretly hoping for the demise of the Pac-12 all along, so that we all move to 20-team super-conferences in college sports and put an end to the previous model of conference membership (no Power Five conference with more than 16 schools)?"
Points raised in that article I agree with: 1. Dragging feet on a media deal has not played to the Pac-12's strength. 2. Eventually we are headed for 20 team super conferences anyway, which explains why some schools are less anxious about all this than Oregon State's athletic administration. We don't know what all has been going on with George K's negotiations. Although he appears indifferent to timing, it is possible he is not and has desperately been trying to cobble together something that will work. But so far has failed. I don't like the Pac-12 prospects going forward even if a short term band aid is arranged. I look for UW and Oregon to bolt at the most convenient opportunity. I tend to agree that 20 team mega conferences are an eventuality and I think the best think Oregon State can do is position itself for that so we don't get left out in the cold playing in some MWC holdover. If I were Barnes I would try to cozy up to the Big12 sooner rather than later. |
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Post by gotmilk on Jul 30, 2023 7:57:39 GMT -8
Maybe there is a reason why the rest of the Pac AD's are not chiming in? This guy in the article may be on to something.
“We want to make the Pac-12 work for us … but if not, we won’t be devastated.”
We’re only speculating — none of this is fact — but it could certainly represent Oregon’s actual attitude to everything unfolding in the Pac-12 right now. It might also represent Washington’s view as well. Let’s play along with this hypothetical......................................Phrased differently: Were Oregon and Washington secretly hoping for the demise of the Pac-12 all along, so that we all move to 20-team super-conferences in college sports and put an end to the previous model of conference membership (no Power Five conference with more than 16 schools)?"
Points raised in that article I agree with: 1. Dragging feet on a media deal has not played to the Pac-12's strength. 2. Eventually we are headed for 20 team super conferences anyway, which explains why some schools are less anxious about all this than Oregon State's athletic administration. We don't know what all has been going on with George K's negotiations. Although he appears indifferent to timing, it is possible he is not and has desperately been trying to cobble together something that will work. But so far has failed. I don't like the Pac-12 prospects going forward even if a short term band aid is arranged. I look for UW and Oregon to bolt at the most convenient opportunity. I tend to agree that 20 team mega conferences are an eventuality and I think the best think Oregon State can do is position itself for that so we don't get left out in the cold playing in some MWC holdover. If I were Barnes I would try to cozy up to the Big12 sooner rather than later. I agree on OSU needs to go to Big 12, if the Pac 9 collapses they are out. HOwever, UO, UW, OSU and Utah all have legitimate shots annually to the CFP when they expand, by making the PAC work. UO and UW will be 8-5 teams in the Big 10, there is really no advantage except to non-revenue sports from the 30 mil bonus because they are competing against larger univerisities that have had that money for years. Having said all that OSU won't call the Big 12, and we are going to be left with a wounded Pac whatever. I don't know what constitues a power 5 conference but they will on thin ice. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 30, 2023 8:17:22 GMT -8
Bottom line on small schools magically adding football is probably $$. OSU and WSU have the lowest athletic budgets in the conference in the mid-upper 80 millions. Gonzaga and Santa Clara combined have at total about 700 more undergrads than OSU’s College of Engineering has by itself. Both of those smaller schools have existing sports budgets of about 30 million each. They are probably not going to get a dime for football from the Pac Whatever until they actually have football programs. Starting a football program from scratch is going to take a lot of $$$. I just don’t see it.
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Post by bvrbred on Jul 30, 2023 8:18:13 GMT -8
We need a 30 million dollar TV deal for football too. MWC revenue is not going to support our current football staff. I have been waiting a long time, since Prothro, for an OSU coach the caliber of Smith.
Oregon sees itself as better than 8-5 in the Big10. They could be wrong. If they draw the weak conference they could be right. With an expanded CFP more than just the conference champ will go from that conference. UW I don't know. They have been a Michael Penix phenom lately but have had a lot of bad teams in recent years. They have had nowhere near the consistency of Oregon. They could go 8-5 or worse down the road--heck they could do that right here. But fans care about CFP. ADs care about dollars.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 30, 2023 8:20:24 GMT -8
Points raised in that article I agree with: 1. Dragging feet on a media deal has not played to the Pac-12's strength. 2. Eventually we are headed for 20 team super conferences anyway, which explains why some schools are less anxious about all this than Oregon State's athletic administration. We don't know what all has been going on with George K's negotiations. Although he appears indifferent to timing, it is possible he is not and has desperately been trying to cobble together something that will work. But so far has failed. I don't like the Pac-12 prospects going forward even if a short term band aid is arranged. I look for UW and Oregon to bolt at the most convenient opportunity. I tend to agree that 20 team mega conferences are an eventuality and I think the best think Oregon State can do is position itself for that so we don't get left out in the cold playing in some MWC holdover. If I were Barnes I would try to cozy up to the Big12 sooner rather than later. I agree on OSU needs to go to Big 12, if the Pac 9 collapses they are out. HOwever, UO, UW, OSU and Utah all have legitimate shots annually to the CFP when they expand, by making the PAC work. UO and UW will be 8-5 teams in the Big 10, there is really no advantage except to non-revenue sports from the 30 mil bonus because they are competing against larger univerisities that have had that money for years. Having said all that OSU won't call the Big 12, and we are going to be left with a wounded Pac whatever. I don't know what constitues a power 5 conference but they will on thin ice. IMO The 20 team superconference thing is purely speculative. The SEC and Big 10 can do whatever they want. I'm not sure either want to go to 20. The Big 10 certainly aren't expanding because Oregon is begging to join. I think they'd prefer UNC or other ACC teams anyway. The creation of the 12 team tourney sort of relegates the concept of P5/G5 to the history bin. The top 6 highest rated conference champions get in no matter what. Then it's a beauty contest. |
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