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Post by hawksea on Sept 11, 2017 15:34:31 GMT -8
Except Moevao hasn't been a QB coach/Co-OC for one of the top coaches in NCAA football. I would consider Smith to be a real possibility to become a HC in the next couple of years if not next year. Typically guys don't leap right from co-OC to Head Coach is what everybody is trying to say. He's operating with a net at this level still, we need to see how he does when he has the driver's seat to the offensive side of the ball - not position coach plus co-driver duties. I think we all agree that he has a bright future but he's a couple steps away on the ladder from P5 HC duties. Jonathan Smith was the OC by himself for his first 3 years, until last year. Now he is still the main OC, with the former Oregon assistant being the co-OC. So Smith is the one calling the plays and being the one in charge still. I have no clue if he is ready or not, but he isn't a couple of steps away from being a P5 HC. If any, he is 1 step away with that one step being a HC of a top Group of 5 school. For example, when UW was in the top 4 last year, Jonathan was the only OC they had and they were very successful. He knows how to run an offense. He has other experience at Montana as an OC as well, and has been a coach for about 15 years now. I would consider him realistic to be in conversations, Moavao, not so much.
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Post by Harvey Road on Sept 11, 2017 17:48:02 GMT -8
It's interesting to see the coaching styles of MR and CGA. Smiling Mike made everybody happy. But CGA seems always angry. It seems to me (and I'm no expert) that being angry all the time isn't going to work with a group of kids who are underperforming. These kids need to believe in themselves. They need to be supported. They need their coaches to believe in them. If you want kids to play above their ability--and we need them to--you can't bring them down. You've got to bring them up! And it has to have an element of fun to it or they will quit when they hit adversity. Our players are not playing like that. They don't seem to be having fun. They don't seem to be enjoying what they are doing. They don't appear to be playing loose and relaxed. Their energy seems to be constrained and blocked. If we get rid of CGA, that's fine. But I don't want another "tough" coach in the house. I want someone who cares about each kid and helps them grow to be better men and better ball players. If it means more mediocrity, that's OK. I want the fun put back into Beaver Football. Erickson was anything but fun. Winning is fun. He won.
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Post by spudbeaver on Sept 11, 2017 19:30:35 GMT -8
Well since we're talking on what coaches that would be avalobe to come here and whatnot, I had a talk with a fellow Beaver fan on Instagram, and he mentioned two former coaches that have some pretty good results on offense. Though hearing the names may make a good majority of us cringe with pure immediate rejection, hatred or dista:te for them. But... what if, IF mind you, osu wer to hire Mark Helfrich and Chip Kelly for head coach and offensive coach?... I mean... we have a former duck HB right now, so like why not hire two former duck head coaches for a OC and head coach? You and the boys were drinkin when this thought came from a white lightning bolt from the sky, weren't you? This may be one of the silliest posts in the history of BH unless it was pure satire, in which case it would be below average. Sorry.
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Post by spudbeaver on Sept 11, 2017 19:32:50 GMT -8
Heck, why stop at Jonathan. We should hire Lyle Moevao. He's tough, got a killer smile, gets along with others well, obviously he's on an upward track... we should get him while we can. Or Colt Charles from McCall, Idaho!!
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Post by Mike84 on Sept 12, 2017 11:38:28 GMT -8
Smiling Mike made everybody happy. No. No he did not. The mere facts that Mike Riley smiled, didn't swear, and rarely chewed players out on the sideline was held up as evidence by many of the "Fire Riley" crowd as some of the main reasons that the Beavers were mediocre, played soft, and were destined to never lose less than 4 games in a season. These fans actually got *angry* that Mike was not visibly angry or publicly tougher. Riley was not doing enough for some fans and some of those focused on his demeanor as the reason. "Nice guys finish last" and all that. Andersen comes in with a different demeanor and some of us thought that at least the fans would stop the complaining about the HC not having a proper HC personality. And yet, even last season, when the Beavers showed improvement, largely avoided any blowout losses, and ended the season on a 2-game winning streak, there continued to be the criticisms of Andersen that focused largely on his personality and his tough talk about being tough. You're wondering what kind of coach "we" need or want. When taken as a single being, Beaver Nation, especially the portion of Beaver Nation that posts on message boards, is the most hypocritical, manic-depressive, self-contradictory, maddening person you would ever have the misfortune to meet. There is no answer to your question of what "we" want because "we" are completely incapable of coming to a single opinion. Win or lose, some fans will dislike certain coaches. Sometimes this feels like something they decide on the day that coach is hired and they stick to that opinion until the end of time (and share it with others whether it is asked for or not). It is telling that the rumors existed for both Riley and Andersen of dissension in the locker room. It is telling that for both Riley and Andersen there are fans with "inside information" that tell us that the coach has lost the team. "If only you knew what I know" and all that. No matter who the coach is, you are going to have parents who are unhappy with the treatment or playing time of their son. No matter who the coach is, you are going to have fans who seemingly thrive on sharing any negative information they can find or create. The best way for a coach to make "us" happy is to exceed expectations. Sometime exceeding expectations is to get 3-4 wins. Sometimes it is a winning season. Sometimes nothing short of a conference championship or BCS bowl is good enough. If the team is exceeding expectations then fans generally will be happy. Coaching style will largely not matter. In Riley's best years, his style was fine. In Ralph Miller's best years, his completely opposite style was fine. Most fans will tell you that they want a coach that builds men on and off the field and who inspires his players to play their best. The exact method isn't really that important to most fans. And whether the fans will say it or not, they really aren't going to be happy if the team isn't exceeding expectations when it comes to wins and losses. When fans are happy with the success of the team they will generally find a way to be happy with the coach and his methods. That is, except for the fans who decide that a certain coach is deserving of nothing but criticism...which also seems to happen regardless of the exact type of coach he may be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 14:08:33 GMT -8
Smiling Mike made everybody happy. No. No he did not. The mere facts that Mike Riley smiled, didn't swear, and rarely chewed players out on the sideline was held up as evidence by many of the "Fire Riley" crowd as some of the main reasons that the Beavers were mediocre, played soft, and were destined to never lose less than 4 games in a season. These fans actually got *angry* that Mike was not visibly angry or publicly tougher. Riley was not doing enough for some fans and some of those focused on his demeanor as the reason. "Nice guys finish last" and all that. Andersen comes in with a different demeanor and some of us thought that at least the fans would stop the complaining about the HC not having a proper HC personality. And yet, even last season, when the Beavers showed improvement, largely avoided any blowout losses, and ended the season on a 2-game winning streak, there continued to be the criticisms of Andersen that focused largely on his personality and his tough talk about being tough. You're wondering what kind of coach "we" need or want. When taken as a single being, Beaver Nation, especially the portion of Beaver Nation that posts on message boards, is the most hypocritical, manic-depressive, self-contradictory, maddening person you would ever have the misfortune to meet. There is no answer to your question of what "we" want because "we" are completely incapable of coming to a single opinion. Win or lose, some fans will dislike certain coaches. Sometimes this feels like something they decide on the day that coach is hired and they stick to that opinion until the end of time (and share it with others whether it is asked for or not). It is telling that the rumors existed for both Riley and Andersen of dissension in the locker room. It is telling that for both Riley and Andersen there are fans with "inside information" that tell us that the coach has lost the team. "If only you knew what I know" and all that. No matter who the coach is, you are going to have parents who are unhappy with the treatment or playing time of their son. No matter who the coach is, you are going to have fans who seemingly thrive on sharing any negative information they can find or create. The best way for a coach to make "us" happy is to exceed expectations. Sometime exceeding expectations is to get 3-4 wins. Sometimes it is a winning season. Sometimes nothing short of a conference championship or BCS bowl is good enough. If the team is exceeding expectations then fans generally will be happy. Coaching style will largely not matter. In Riley's best years, his style was fine. In Ralph Miller's best years, his completely opposite style was fine. Most fans will tell you that they want a coach that builds men on and off the field and who inspires his players to play their best. The exact method isn't really that important to most fans. And whether the fans will say it or not, they really aren't going to be happy if the team isn't exceeding expectations when it comes to wins and losses. When fans are happy with the success of the team they will generally find a way to be happy with the coach and his methods. That is, except for the fans who decide that a certain coach is deserving of nothing but criticism...which also seems to happen regardless of the exact type of coach he may be. I agree. My original post was a reaction to what I witnessed Saturday night. I saw a team quit on itself and bumble around like they had better things to do. My simple observation is that perhaps the best way to get the best from our men on the field is to build them up rather than knock them down. And we all know that our recruits are not going to be the top of the line--not until we establish ourselves as a team worth looking at. Fleck seems to do that. Riley did that. Hell, PSU's coach had his team believing that they could whoop us. I know that the reverse method can also work, but after Saturday's game, it looked like the Beavers were playing tight--afraid to let loose. I want to see the Beavs play with a little more energy and zeal. If CGA can get that from them through the rough and tough approach, cool. I don't care who the coach is at OSU, and I'll support him and the team for as long as I am able, IF he fields a team that plays hard for 60 minutes. Remember the old adage: it's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game? Well, as a fan, there's a lot of truth to that.
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Post by ee1990 on Sept 12, 2017 14:18:57 GMT -8
There is next to 0 reason to hire someone because they used to play here. Hire someone because they are excellent. If Jonathan Smith is the best person for the job, hire him. But some of you would give him the job just because you like him. That's bad business.
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 12, 2017 14:24:08 GMT -8
I don't care who the coach is at OSU, and I'll support him and the team for as long as I am able, IF he fields a team that plays hard for 60 minutes. Remember the old adage: it's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game? Well, as a fan, there's a lot of truth to that.That may be an old adage, but usually applies to losers and sportsmanship in some cases. Playing hard for 60 minutes, playing the game the right way (fundamentally sound, etc.) is an improvement on what we have currently, but is not the standard we hold for our program. Wins have to show up sooner rather than later in "big boy" D1 college football...
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Post by nabeav on Sept 12, 2017 14:36:13 GMT -8
There is next to 0 reason to hire someone because they used to play here. Hire someone because they are excellent. If Jonathan Smith is the best person for the job, hire him. But some of you would give him the job just because you like him. That's bad business. To an extent I agree, but I think there is something to be said for "institutional knowledge." This is not a football factory. We do not simply walk into a recruit's living room, slap a binder with our logo on the coffee table and say "sign here." Knowing what type of person and player can succeed here I think is paramount. This may have been Riley's biggest asset here at OSU - he could win with lower recruited classes because he knew those kids would thrive not only in his system, but maybe also in Corvallis. It's part of why I don't get the "Best College Town in the Pac-12" slogan. Who is that directed towards? As alums, we already know. We don't need someone to tell us. Current students get it too. Is it geared to prospective students in general? If so, why is it athletics branded? Why doesn't the university use it? Seems to me it's supposedly geared towards prospective student athletes and their parents. Is it working? I don't know. If anything, it may be that it's tricking kids into thinking they want to be here that actually don't.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 12, 2017 14:54:59 GMT -8
There is next to 0 reason to hire someone because they used to play here. Hire someone because they are excellent. If Jonathan Smith is the best person for the job, hire him. But some of you would give him the job just because you like him. That's bad business. I think there is compelling reason to hire the QB of the team to achieve the first winning season in 28 years. He was there in 1997. He was a first hand witness to the changes that turned OSU around. What had to happen to change not only the schemes, but the recruiting, the attitudes and the how to win mentality. And of course, OSU is in a PR disaster right now. fan interest is in the toilet, attitude about football is awful. if ANYTHING the one year boost of hometown hero coming home, lets support him alone is worth a few thousand butts in the stands. Sometimes it is just the energy you need. put a buzz in the program. OSU is at rock bottom right now. without drastic, drastic change this is a 1-11 team, or a 3-9 team at best. Rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. we would have extremely limited financial resources. we ain't pulling in the hottest name in town. the hot midmajor is not making us his stepping stone. Not happening. Harness niner and the story line to make a buzz. package it with some stretch of the program, a new build or expansion. use niner to prod boosters into reaching into the checkbook and announcing something, anything. Hell, new paint on Truax, I don't care. SOMETHING that shows OSU is not going to take this any more. Here is our guy, we are going to grow together. If you have a buzz, you can sell the buzz to on the fence players. Players that normally would come to OSU but are now hesitant because we are losers. Be part of something. Be the next generation of hero. Every single person here that has been a fan for more than 20 years will never forget the 1998-2000 era of players. We will never forget Jonathan Smith, Kenny Simonton. We will never forget converted QB, Tim Alexander taking a duck DB for a piggy back ride 10 yards into the endzone in the 1998 civil war or Simontons OT run to victory. Sell the story of our last rebuild and rise to glory and sell the key figure in it. The undersized, over looked "I thought he was the water boy" QB that got us there. Hell yes, there are a million reasons to hire somebody connected to the program.
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 12, 2017 15:13:02 GMT -8
There is next to 0 reason to hire someone because they used to play here. Hire someone because they are excellent. If Jonathan Smith is the best person for the job, hire him. But some of you would give him the job just because you like him. That's bad business. I think there is compelling reason to hire the QB of the team to achieve the first winning season in 28 years. He was there in 1997. He was a first hand witness to the changes that turned OSU around. What had to happen to change not only the schemes, but the recruiting, the attitudes and the how to win mentality. And of course, OSU is in a PR disaster right now. fan interest is in the toilet, attitude about football is awful. if ANYTHING the one year boost of hometown hero coming home, lets support him alone is worth a few thousand butts in the stands. Sometimes it is just the energy you need. put a buzz in the program. OSU is at rock bottom right now. without drastic, drastic change this is a 1-11 team, or a 3-9 team at best. Rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. we would have extremely limited financial resources. we ain't pulling in the hottest name in town. the hot midmajor is not making us his stepping stone. Not happening. Harness niner and the story line to make a buzz. package it with some stretch of the program, a new build or expansion. use niner to prod boosters into reaching into the checkbook and announcing something, anything. Hell, new paint on Truax, I don't care. SOMETHING that shows OSU is not going to take this any more. Here is our guy, we are going to grow together. If you have a buzz, you can sell the buzz to on the fence players. Players that normally would come to OSU but are now hesitant because we are losers. Be part of something. Be the next generation of hero. Every single person here that has been a fan for more than 20 years will never forget the 1998-2000 era of players. We will never forget Jonathan Smith, Kenny Simonton. We will never forget converted QB, Tim Alexander taking a duck DB for a piggy back ride 10 yards into the endzone in the 1998 civil war or Simontons OT run to victory. Sell the story of our last rebuild and rise to glory and sell the key figure in it. The undersized, over looked "I thought he was the water boy" QB that got us there. Hell yes, there are a million reasons to hire somebody connected to the program. ONLY... and really ONLY if JS has the connections and belief from others to build a quality staff!!! And... I'm betting DE would help him build a staff and has good connections.
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Post by ee1990 on Sept 12, 2017 15:20:13 GMT -8
There is next to 0 reason to hire someone because they used to play here. Hire someone because they are excellent. If Jonathan Smith is the best person for the job, hire him. But some of you would give him the job just because you like him. That's bad business. I think there is compelling reason to hire the QB of the team to achieve the first winning season in 28 years. He was there in 1997. He was a first hand witness to the changes that turned OSU around. What had to happen to change not only the schemes, but the recruiting, the attitudes and the how to win mentality. And of course, OSU is in a PR disaster right now. fan interest is in the toilet, attitude about football is awful. if ANYTHING the one year boost of hometown hero coming home, lets support him alone is worth a few thousand butts in the stands. Sometimes it is just the energy you need. put a buzz in the program. OSU is at rock bottom right now. without drastic, drastic change this is a 1-11 team, or a 3-9 team at best. Rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. we would have extremely limited financial resources. we ain't pulling in the hottest name in town. the hot midmajor is not making us his stepping stone. Not happening. Harness niner and the story line to make a buzz. package it with some stretch of the program, a new build or expansion. use niner to prod boosters into reaching into the checkbook and announcing something, anything. Hell, new paint on Truax, I don't care. SOMETHING that shows OSU is not going to take this any more. Here is our guy, we are going to grow together. If you have a buzz, you can sell the buzz to on the fence players. Players that normally would come to OSU but are now hesitant because we are losers. Be part of something. Be the next generation of hero. Every single person here that has been a fan for more than 20 years will never forget the 1998-2000 era of players. We will never forget Jonathan Smith, Kenny Simonton. We will never forget converted QB, Tim Alexander taking a duck DB for a piggy back ride 10 yards into the endzone in the 1998 civil war or Simontons OT run to victory. Sell the story of our last rebuild and rise to glory and sell the key figure in it. The undersized, over looked "I thought he was the water boy" QB that got us there. Hell yes, there are a million reasons to hire somebody connected to the program. What does any of that have to do with being a good football coach? It's not tangible, it's rah rah poofery. We need a coach, not some mythical visionary. Answer this simple question: If he were not a Beaver, would he be on your radar?
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Post by ee1990 on Sept 12, 2017 15:23:11 GMT -8
There is next to 0 reason to hire someone because they used to play here. Hire someone because they are excellent. If Jonathan Smith is the best person for the job, hire him. But some of you would give him the job just because you like him. That's bad business. To an extent I agree, but I think there is something to be said for "institutional knowledge." This is not a football factory. We do not simply walk into a recruit's living room, slap a binder with our logo on the coffee table and say "sign here." Knowing what type of person and player can succeed here I think is paramount. This may have been Riley's biggest asset here at OSU - he could win with lower recruited classes because he knew those kids would thrive not only in his system, but maybe also in Corvallis. It's part of why I don't get the "Best College Town in the Pac-12" slogan. Who is that directed towards? As alums, we already know. We don't need someone to tell us. Current students get it too. Is it geared to prospective students in general? If so, why is it athletics branded? Why doesn't the university use it? Seems to me it's supposedly geared towards prospective student athletes and their parents. Is it working? I don't know. If anything, it may be that it's tricking kids into thinking they want to be here that actually don't. Good football players will succeed here. Good coaches will succeed here. We're acting like OS is some special needs case.
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Post by nabeav on Sept 12, 2017 15:45:39 GMT -8
You find one non-OSU/Wisconsin fan to tell you Gary Andersen is a bad coach. Look at every single story from when we hired him. "Home Run Hire." "Exactly what Oregon State Needs." a USA Today article said "Oregon State as a whole seems to match the personality of Beavers' surprising but fitting hire."
He's a good football coach, but I'm starting to wonder if he's right for OSU, because whatever he's doing isn't translating to the play on the field. Every single coach on the staff has had success elsewhere. Baldwin was a lights out O-coordinator at Colorado State. Sitake and Clune were both very successful defensive coordinators. None of it has worked here, and it's not because of the players. We have the talent to win, or at the very least be competitive.
Oregon State may be the right fit for Gary Andersen, but is Gary Andersen the right fit for Oregon State?
We're not a special needs case, but we're not one size fits all either.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 12, 2017 16:13:35 GMT -8
I think there is compelling reason to hire the QB of the team to achieve the first winning season in 28 years. He was there in 1997. He was a first hand witness to the changes that turned OSU around. What had to happen to change not only the schemes, but the recruiting, the attitudes and the how to win mentality. And of course, OSU is in a PR disaster right now. fan interest is in the toilet, attitude about football is awful. if ANYTHING the one year boost of hometown hero coming home, lets support him alone is worth a few thousand butts in the stands. Sometimes it is just the energy you need. put a buzz in the program. OSU is at rock bottom right now. without drastic, drastic change this is a 1-11 team, or a 3-9 team at best. Rock bottom. Nowhere to go but up. we would have extremely limited financial resources. we ain't pulling in the hottest name in town. the hot midmajor is not making us his stepping stone. Not happening. Harness niner and the story line to make a buzz. package it with some stretch of the program, a new build or expansion. use niner to prod boosters into reaching into the checkbook and announcing something, anything. Hell, new paint on Truax, I don't care. SOMETHING that shows OSU is not going to take this any more. Here is our guy, we are going to grow together. If you have a buzz, you can sell the buzz to on the fence players. Players that normally would come to OSU but are now hesitant because we are losers. Be part of something. Be the next generation of hero. Every single person here that has been a fan for more than 20 years will never forget the 1998-2000 era of players. We will never forget Jonathan Smith, Kenny Simonton. We will never forget converted QB, Tim Alexander taking a duck DB for a piggy back ride 10 yards into the endzone in the 1998 civil war or Simontons OT run to victory. Sell the story of our last rebuild and rise to glory and sell the key figure in it. The undersized, over looked "I thought he was the water boy" QB that got us there. Hell yes, there are a million reasons to hire somebody connected to the program. What does any of that have to do with being a good football coach? It's not tangible, it's rah rah poofery. We need a coach, not some mythical visionary. Answer this simple question: If he were not a Beaver, would he be on your radar? absolutely. Nathan Enderle Joe Southwick John Browning What he coached up at Idaho alone is eyebrow raising. He has been a QB coach for 10 years at this point, and going on his 7th year as an OC. In his first season, he took a true freshman QB, and still produced the 5th most points in program history... He has literally broken Udub records for offense last year... Demolished them. and they double his salary to $700,000K for the effort, making him among the highest paid in the Pac-12. He was very good at Montana, leading their offense to semifinals appearance and ranked highly in the nation. Basically he has every positive indicator you look for in a OC looking to make the jump. If we compare him to another hot name that made the direct jump, Tom Herman, all he lacks compared to him is about one year of D-1 experience at OC. Herman was a D-1 OC for 5 seasons, Iowa State and Ohio State. Niner is going into his 4th year, with 3 under his belt.
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