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Post by kersting13 on Aug 27, 2017 18:54:18 GMT -8
The second pick was a result of the receiver falling down. That wasn't on Luton. Not so sure that's a good throw even if Hernandez doesn't fall down. As for claiming "3M doesn't make those throws", is a matter of opinion, unless you've had your jugs gun out there at practices. 3M obviously had enough arm for a previous coach* to recruit him for a scheme that required a good arm, so it ain't like 3M had a noodle arm. SaveSave
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Post by ag87 on Aug 27, 2017 19:05:59 GMT -8
I don't want this comment to be perceived as about Riley. But I think his litmus test in recruiting quarterbacks was if he believed they could throw a 25-yard out when they were 20. I'm thinking there is some art to that when the throwers are 17. Anyway, in the class with 3M and Nick Mitchell I thought he was looking at legs also. But I don't believe they would have been offered a scholly if he didn't think they could make that throw. As an additional side note I think MR said at a recruiting dinner he didn't offer Colin Kapernick because he didn't believe he'd be able to make that throw. I think Colin was about 6-3 and 170# as a 17-year-old.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 27, 2017 19:06:23 GMT -8
Oh, the spring game, gotcha. Just like Luke Babbitt hitting everything in Blazers practices. Great evidence. He also had a similar throw in a game running to his left last year, can't remember which game but it happened.
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Post by Tigardbeav on Aug 27, 2017 19:13:33 GMT -8
Welcome back baseball1111!
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Post by RenoBeaver on Aug 27, 2017 19:13:53 GMT -8
Wrong-o. You must've not watched the spring game. 3M made a more difficult version of the Togiai TD/"drop" at the end of scrimmage. 3M had an arm when needed. Jake Luton already has 3 INTs on the year. 3M had 5 in 6 games last year. Why 3M keeps this game closer is because it is really doubtful he throws a pick six then another INT in 3 attempts. It is a seven point game when we take the ball in the 3rd quarter... pick six on a woefully late pass on a short throw to a middle screen/short crossing route. that is the turning point. that is exactly when we lost. now it is a 14 point game. we get the ball back and it is then another INT on the 3rd attempt. the team quit right there. the air left, the effort left. the team quit. two series and it was over. Of course it is entirely possible 3M has the same bad pass... I am not so sure. Nothing Luton did in this game was outside his wheelhouse and I'd even argue if we are going to keep running a read-option action, at least 3M could run with the ball somewhat well. 3 picks against a not good defense is EXACTLY what everybody was worried about with Luton. Everything that needs to be said about the 3M vs Luton debate is summarized in Atown's first sentence.
Clearly some of you are confused if you think the offensive game plan OS used with Luton under center is the same had they just realized 3M is the guy after winning 2 straight Pac 12 games. It's a completely different offense, being operated in a completely different fashion, with a kid who was close to mastering what made that offense work.
Firstly let's start with Luton. Everything I expected. He's got potential, he's got a big arm, and he makes some nice throws. He also forced throws that were unnecessary, missed too many throws, and made bad decisions. The type of thing a kid does when making the transition from JC ball to Division I. I'm confident he'll get better. I'm also confident he will struggle at times and cost OSU valuable opportunities that they can't afford to waste with this defense.
As for 3M, I can't imagine the coaching staff not preparing a game plan that fits his skillset, if they used this one, yeah, not much 3M could do about that. But I'd like to think they would look through the Oregon and moreso the Arizona game. Some were bitching about Nall not being able to get off. Well, he only ran 15 times. Eventually those 2 and 3 and 4 yard runs turn into 4 and 6 and 10 yard runs. Now, mix in Tyner, mix in both of them on the field at the same time. And guess what, two straight 3 yard runs and 3rd and 4? That is right in 3Ms wheel house. He converts that with his legs or easy dump off, 3X as much as Luton who is basically immobile, and was missing wide open opportunities underneath while he continued to stare down receivers 15, 20 and 30 yards downfield. OSU Should have scored 24 to 30 points in that first half, and much of the reason they didn't was simply Luton trying to do too much.
It's a completely different game. Your best chance to win a game like this is with the guy who is now at Fresno State, and I'll say it again, 3M wins that game 9 out of 10 times, assuming the coaches simply commit to getting the best guys on the team the ball frequently, and keeping our defense off the field as much as possible.
47 passes by Luton. 15 rushes by Nall. That's it right there.
Welcome back BB1111, appreciate your measured and well thought out takes here.
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Post by beavsaregood on Aug 27, 2017 19:38:53 GMT -8
The second pick was a result of the receiver falling down. That wasn't on Luton. I thought it wasn't on Luton, too. But, looking at the traffic down there, that was actually a crap throw/decision. It would have been picked, probably.
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Post by beaverbeliever on Aug 27, 2017 19:45:29 GMT -8
Look up 3Ms stats on the road. Then say again he'd win yesterday's game 9 out of 10 times. Good grief.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 20:12:24 GMT -8
Fine. Let's say that 3M is the better QB option for the Beavers which I don't believe for a minute. He didn't win the starting job his freshman year and he looked pretty bad then too. Last year, even with the experience from the previous year and the fact that his main rival at QB turned receiver, he was third on the depth chart. Yes, he played with desire and heart and he led a maturing Beaver team to some wins. But every team we played against knew that we didn't have a passing game last year, and we didn't. Not, at least, a Pac-12 level passing game. We were pretty one dimensional.
But let's say that 3M improved and was ready to take the job this year. And for the sake of argument, let's go ahead and say that CGA and company were completely blind to how fabulous this kid really is. Let's say all of this and anything else 3M believers want to say.
What does it get you? Not a damn thing.
Imagine what it would have been like if we had Mannion behind center. Wow! We could really have kicked their arses....
Same dif.
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Post by baseba1111 on Aug 27, 2017 20:26:53 GMT -8
Welcome back baseball1111! Thx
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Post by atownbeaver on Aug 27, 2017 20:40:32 GMT -8
Fine. Let's say that 3M is the better QB option for the Beavers which I don't believe for a minute. He didn't win the starting job his freshman year and he looked pretty bad then too. Last year, even with the experience from the previous year and the fact that his main rival at QB turned receiver, he was third on the depth chart. Yes, he played with desire and heart and he led a maturing Beaver team to some wins. But every team we played against knew that we didn't have a passing game last year, and we didn't. Not, at least, a Pac-12 level passing game. We were pretty one dimensional. But let's say that 3M improved and was ready to take the job this year. And for the sake of argument, let's go ahead and say that CGA and company were completely blind to how fabulous this kid really is. Let's say all of this and anything else 3M believers want to say. What does it get you? Not a damn thing. Imagine what it would have been like if we had Mannion behind center. Wow! We could really have kicked their arses.... Same dif. The fundamental basis of this logic is that the person making the choice of where to put 3M on the depth chart is competent. If the largest and most persistent complaint against CGA is his inability to pick and develop QBs, then saying 3M couldn't crack the depth chart doesn't have merit. 3M not cracking the depth chart is EXACTLY the problem here!!! I made this statement before, but I will make it again, Jeff Tedford, a guy that has put out 6 first round pick QBs. (not drafted... FIRST ROUND) invited 3M despite having 5 other QBs on the roster and in a week is already battling for the starting job at Fresno. Most of the pundits down their expect 3M to take the job. Like it or not, it is a think that makes you go hrmmm. Just like Del Rio not being good enough to ever play for OSU, immediately becoming the starter at Florida...
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Post by atownbeaver on Aug 27, 2017 20:46:54 GMT -8
Look up 3Ms stats on the road. Then say again he'd win yesterday's game 9 out of 10 times. Good grief. Uh, he played #4 Washington(#8 scoring defense) and #16 Stanford (#18 scoring defense) on the road, not CSU and it's 81st ranked scoring defense (last season)... good grief. He played UCLA (#59 scoring defense) on the road as well, and that outing was fairly okay. it was at least efficient. 22 of 32 for 232 yards 0TD 1 INT. So, while I never said he'd win 9 times out of 10, I would still maintain he'd of played it safer, we'd of run more and overall the game is closer and more competitive.
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Post by spudbeaver on Aug 27, 2017 21:12:33 GMT -8
3M's first year stats: 7 games 27 completions 67 attempts 403 yards 3 interceptions 1 touchdown
BOOM!
Luton' s our qb. Let's see what happens.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 27, 2017 21:42:53 GMT -8
3M's first year stats: 7 games 27 completions 67 attempts 403 yards 3 interceptions 1 touchdown BOOM! Luton' s our qb. Let's see what happens. No offense, Luton nearly matched those stats in one game while actually getting starter's reps most of the fall. McMaryion was the best true passer on our team the first 2 years of GA and he never got starter's reps until everyone else was injured last year. I personally think Luton will be fine when it's all said and done, but that doesn't mean McMaryion was a poor QB. He was put in games in bad positions year one, and basically ignored as a potential starter for much of his time here. You've got people on this board saying MR left no QBS when he left, but the current coaches basically ran off 2 QBS who just may be starters at other schools (one being a top 20 ranked power 5 school) this year.
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Post by steinlager on Aug 27, 2017 21:48:57 GMT -8
3M's first year stats: 7 games 27 completions 67 attempts 403 yards 3 interceptions 1 touchdown BOOM! Luton' s our qb. Let's see what happens. Luton threw some of the best passes I've seen since Mannion was slinging the ball. Give him some time and experience and then judge him. The O line really needs to play better so we can utilize our stable of RB's and grind out drives. Controlling the clock and keeping our defense fresh is absolutely imperative in order to win some games. Go Beavs!
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Post by baseba1111 on Aug 27, 2017 21:51:01 GMT -8
3M's first year stats: 7 games 27 completions 67 attempts 403 yards 3 interceptions 1 touchdown BOOM! Luton' s our qb. Let's see what happens. BOOM?? Apples to apples? Any games as the named starter... as the guy getting most of the 1st team reps all Spring/Fall? With additional reps in JC ball and at Idaho? Or as an inexperienced sub in with backups and his only experience in a completely different system?? In all fairness 3M was never given the opportunity to be the guy. To have the coaches condidence. To develop any chemistry or rhythm with the 1's. GA made a huge mistake... IMHO from all I've seen at open scrimmages and game action. Luton could be a good QB in the future... with time to develop and see the game a bit at the Pac12 level. However, his skill set is not so superior that he should unseat 3M based on practices alone. 3M should be on the roster... should have been the starter, and mentor to Luton. Luton should have been given quality game reps in the three preseason games. More than anything 3M would be a great example of how to handle adversity on and off the field... AND if beaten out would be a far far superior backup than DG. On a side note on why this team developing a closeness is questionable...3M was treated very very similarly to LDR... but, in my opinion... and those close to him... WORSE(if you remember I brought up the possibility he'd transfer early on. It came from sources close to him and I was chided with the typical rants of... "my uncle's sisters cousin boyfriend..."). He was told nothing but positives after Spring ball. By Fall camp very early he was getting no reps with the 1s and eventually getting hardly any reps. The feeling it was intentional to make it too late to transfer and get a fair shot with another team. Luckily Fresneck staff was alerted by concerned parties of what they feared might go down. LDR and 3M were highly respected and well liked by many players. Some are extremely close to 3M and witnessed first hand the perceived mistreatment and then it was followed up by coaches trying cover their asses with some team talk that players knew was BS. Actually very similar to what happened at Wisky and some players were public about it. You and others can argue the Luton vs 3M crap all you want. But, what you can't argue is that DG and Blount are even close to 3M's ability yet eventually got more quality reps. 3M belonged on this roster and it hurts us he's not... in more than just talent.
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