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Post by jimbeav on Jun 8, 2017 16:32:06 GMT -8
Well this just really sucks for everyone involved. I do believe it is important to give second chances, even in cases like this. If you don't give someone a chance to turn their life around then they have no reason to rehabilitate and they are more likely to re-offend. I found the stat that after a few years juvenile offenders with treatment are no bigger risk than the general population interesting. At that same time though, it will hard to cheer for Luke on the mound... it's gonna be weird. This whole thing is just icky. Yes, icky no doubt. But just remember: The report says the initial charges were for two counts that took place over two periods between 2009 and 2011. On the one hand, that this took place over 2 years is downright heartbreaking. But on the other hand, that means this started when Luke was 13. That's about 8th grade. There's a big difference between 13 and 15, and right now everybody thinks of the 15-year-old because that's when the conviction was. But a 13-year-old is still very much in the very-confused-kid stage. Now, obviously it's totally messed up that it continued beyond that for so long, however we should also consider that Luke may have been abused as a kid himself, which as previously mentioned is the biggest indicator by far of a future abuser. He may have been started down a very dark path that he didn't know how to break free from, and getting caught was probably the best thing that could have happened to him (I wouldn't be surprised if he feels that way too). Anyway, there is just too much that none of us know for us to pass judgement on anybody in this situation. In the end, I have to believe that if Pat Casey feels comfortable enough to put a Beaver jersey on the young man, then I can feel comfortable enough to cheer him on.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2017 16:40:04 GMT -8
Points:
Heimlich was cited for two counts. One in 2009-2010 and one in 2011. That might mean that Heimlich may have only been charged with two separate occurrences with general dates rather than multiple occurrences within those dates. Also, he only pleaded guilty to one count, the 2011 count. He admitted sexual contact but that might not mean that he admitted what the six-year-old alleged.
Heimlich was sentenced to two years' of sex offender treatment and probation.
Heimlich was cited for failing to comply with the law on April 3, 2017. That charge was dropped on May 17, 2017. The Sheriff's Department stated that they were trying to enforce a law that they had not previously enforced. As I posted earlier, the foregoing information may mean that (1) Heimlich complied with the law; (2) Heimlich was unaware of the law; or (3) Heimlich was aware of the law but that Benton County did not enforce such law, so he did not comply for that reason. Also, in all probability, if Heimlich were playing for a Florida, a Florida State, an LSU, or a Vanderbilt, in my opinion, Benton County drops the citation, scrubs the computer, and this allegation does not see the light of day until after the final out in Omaha.
My takeaway:
There is a lot of conjecture here. On balance, though, I think that we can all agree that people should not sexually assault on another. I think that we can also agree that a fifteen-year-old should not be sexually assaulting a six-year-old. A fifteen-year-old who sexually assaults a six-year-old should be punished and reformed, if possible. Was the 15-year-old reformed? It seems that that is true.
Was the punishment sufficient? The golden rule in law is to put yourself in the position of the victim or the victim's family. Let's say you're the victim's dad. You have a happy, healthy, bright, and well-adjusted four-year-old, and your idiot nephew (reading between the lines) does this to her, robs her of her happiness and steals her innocence. Is two years' of sex offender treatment sufficient punishment? In my book, the answer is a definitive no.
I know people who have been to law school, who can never be attorneys, because of what they did in their youth. Your actions have consequences, even youthful actions. Look at Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, and Sammy Sosa. Look at Shoeless Joe Jackson. Look at Pete Rose. While you may never be successfully prosecuted for your crimes, the Court of Public Opinion can and will punish your transgressions for decades after-the-fact.
In my opinion, if the law fails to punish someone sufficiently, we owe it to ourselves and our families to ensure that Heimlich pays his debt to society, that he pays his debt to that 11-year-old.
Additionally, as fans of Oregon State University, the greatest university in the world, we owe it to each other, to the graduates, to those taking classes, to those that have applied, and to those that are even thinking about applying to ensure that the athletes at OSU exemplifies the best within each of us. Does this mean that we expect perfection out of our players? Absolutely not. But there are minimal societal norms that we can expect Oregon State athletes not to sink below. Heimlich sank below those societal norms. He made a outrageous and heinous mistake.
I would like to see him never appear in Oregon State orange and black again, because the uniform means less to the other guys on the team, to the guys that put it on before, and to the guys that put it on after Heimlich, if he is allowed to put it on again.
There is far more to life than a diamond, a wall, nine guys, a ball, and a stick. And we can never, ever kid ourselves that a game is bigger than the life and well-being of a living, breathing human being.
Having said all of that, if there is another side to the story, if there is more to it, Heimlich or someone else at Oregon State needs to step out and tell their side, their story. If they do that and shed a different light on what we now know, I am open to change my opinion. Until then, I think that we need to uniformly say that we do not condone Heimlich's actions and that Heimlich is unfit to represent this university.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2017 16:41:48 GMT -8
Also, kudos to the Oregonian for putting this out there. If nothing else, we, as fans, deserved to know.
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Post by jdogge on Jun 8, 2017 16:46:27 GMT -8
Removing yourself from Benny's House might be a good start. you have no right to suggest someone leave here, especially since your only beef with them is a disagreement about a VERY VERY sensitive topic. chill out. I was responding to the black and white moralizing. This isn't a black and white issue; there are several layers, not the least of which is the fact that he complied with all of the requirements of the State of Washington. Justice according to the State of Washington, was served. Yet, he's cancelling on the entire OSU athletic program. Why? Punish everyone else for one kid's legal problem? Really? So my response, admittedly a bit extreme, was a reaction to his extreme reaction. Luke is getting punished -- again; the vic is being victimized -- again; 25 of his teammates are being punished; every OSU student and alum are being tainted. And he's going to cancel his support for the athletic program. Sorry, but his reaction was seriously childish and I responded accordingly. My apologies to the regular posters.
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Post by gotmilk on Jun 8, 2017 17:09:07 GMT -8
Also, kudos to the Oregonian for putting this out there. If nothing else, we, as fans, deserved to know.
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Post by gotmilk on Jun 8, 2017 17:12:04 GMT -8
I hope you are making a very bad joke. Kudos to the O? Seriously. The #1 concern in all this is for the victim, and to have this wound unceremoniously ripped open when according to her own mother she has poor recollection of it, is just beyond the lowest actions one human could to do a child, to me she is being abused all over again. Pathetic. I love the pat Casey beavs but for me this magical season is now over. Baseball championships just seem so pointless right now.
I have cancelled by trip to Omaha.
this was meant in response to the jackass thanking the Oregonian, not going to the trouble to edit it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:18:34 GMT -8
Also, kudos to the Oregonian for putting this out there. If nothing else, we, as fans, deserved to know. No. This was not a service to anyone. As witnessed by the timing of the news story this was strictly a clickbait expose by that entity. Please do not praise those whose motivations are all about damaging individuals and teams and institutions. There is no winner here and no value added.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 17:28:18 GMT -8
I hope you are making a very bad joke. Kudos to the O? Seriously. The #1 concern in all this is for the victim, and to have this wound unceremoniously ripped open when according to her own mother she has poor recollection of it, is just beyond the lowest actions one human could to do a child, to me she is being abused all over again. Pathetic. I love the pat Casey beavs but for me this magical season is now over. Baseball championships just seem so pointless right now. I have cancelled by trip to Omaha. this was meant in response to the jackass thanking the Oregonian, not going to the trouble to edit it. I'm not sure that this is an appropriate response. All the information coming out that I have seen suggests that LH has done pretty much everything by the book pretty much since the case was open. The Oregonian article(s) stink of sensationalized reporting. They seem to have made a huge deal about something that has been taken care of by the legal process. The only question that remains is what OSU knew and when. And whether ethically they ought to accept certain students or not. To me, it's a smear attack on an otherwise perfect season.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 8, 2017 17:29:50 GMT -8
Also, kudos to the Oregonian for putting this out there. If nothing else, we, as fans, deserved to know. No. This was not a service to anyone. As witnessed by the timing of the news story this was strictly a clickbait expose by that entity. Please do not praise those whose motivations are all about damaging individuals and teams and institutions. There is no winner here and no value added. Knowledge is power. A lack of reporting of investigating of people doing their job turned Penn State into Penn State. The Oregonian is supposed to report on important people and events in Oregon. It did that. It wrote three articles on Luke Heimlich, which showed one side, the positive side of him. Because of what was learned after the last article, because of what they wrote in the previous three, they were honor bound to write the fourth. Doing something that is unpopular but right deserves a kudos. Kudos to the Oregonian.
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Post by obf on Jun 8, 2017 17:30:36 GMT -8
Also, kudos to the Oregonian for putting this out there. If nothing else, we, as fans, deserved to know. Frankly as a fan I DONT deserve to know anything about these guys' personal lives, and in fact I wish I DIDNT know... Now I have to deal with some very mixed feelings when all I want to do is watch some baseball and root for my team...
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EOBeav
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Post by EOBeav on Jun 8, 2017 17:30:36 GMT -8
Until then, I think that we need to uniformly say that we do not condone Heimlich's actions and that Heimlich is unfit to represent this university. My hope is that he steps away willingly without having to put the prestige of this great university on the line. From all accounts, though, it looks like he's throwing this weekend.
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bill82
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Post by bill82 on Jun 8, 2017 17:37:05 GMT -8
In my opinion, if the law fails to punish someone sufficiently, we owe it to ourselves and our families to ensure that Heimlich pays his debt to society, that he pays his debt to that 11-year-old. I would like to see him never appear in Oregon State orange and black again, because the uniform means less to the other guys on the team, to the guys that put it on before, and to the guys that put it on after Heimlich, if he is allowed to put it on again. Vigilante justice is not the answer. If you don't like the punishment, you don't take it out on an individual, you work to change the laws - and I doubt you will have any luck in this case. Washington's laws are tougher than most.
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Post by gzrbvr on Jun 8, 2017 17:46:09 GMT -8
Also, kudos to the Oregonian for putting this out there. If nothing else, we, as fans, deserved to know. It is what it is and it is not pretty. That being said, i would hope the Oregonian is not trying to make up for their total fails on the likes of Packwood, Goldsmidt, Sam Adams, and Kitzhaber. I would guess they are hurting from being scooped over and over by the likes of Willamette Week.
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Post by beaverbeliever on Jun 8, 2017 19:01:20 GMT -8
I hope you are making a very bad joke. Kudos to the O? Seriously. The #1 concern in all this is for the victim, and to have this wound unceremoniously ripped open when according to her own mother she has poor recollection of it, is just beyond the lowest actions one human could to do a child, to me she is being abused all over again. Pathetic. I love the pat Casey beavs but for me this magical season is now over. Baseball championships just seem so pointless right now. I have cancelled by trip to Omaha. this was meant in response to the jackass thanking the Oregonian, not going to the trouble to edit it. If you have tickets for this weekend and don't want them anymore, please let us know how to buy them from you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 19:04:32 GMT -8
But there are minimal societal norms that we can expect Oregon State athletes not to sink below. Heimlich sank below those societal norms. He made a outrageous and heinous mistake. I would like to see him never appear in Oregon State orange and black again, because the uniform means less to the other guys on the team, to the guys that put it on before, and to the guys that put it on after Heimlich, if he is allowed to put it on again. I don't understand this point of view. As a juvenile, he committed a crime. Yet according to society's standards he has paid his dues. Why are you ashamed to see him wear the uniform? Once a criminal, always a criminal? No second chances allowed? Our boys are supposed to be somehow pure and innocent of everything? If this had occurred while he was on the team, fine, sure. Boot him off and get him out of here. But what about a kid who is trying to make his way in the world after committing a terrible mistake? And I'm not suggesting that he get a free pass because he's a ballplayer. But it's a sin to tear apart a man's life just because he is a ballplayer. And it's wrong to turn your back on him now when he needs support. What would you do if suddenly you've gone from being in the headlines for your fantastic year to being in the headlines for a skeleton in your closet?
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