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Post by clydebeav on Sept 9, 2024 10:15:01 GMT -8
McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency. Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great. We’ll find out a lot about McCoy against Oregon. That being said, I want to point out who DJ’s 3rd game was against. It was a home game against San Diego State. 14-30 with 1 TD and 2 Ints. It’s at least fair to say McCoy played better against San Diego State. Especially considering that it was on the road with a less talented supporting cast.
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 9, 2024 10:34:20 GMT -8
Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great. We’ll find out a lot about McCoy against Oregon. That being said, I want to point out who DJ’s 3rd game was against. It was a home game against San Diego State. 14-30 with 1 TD and 2 Ints. It’s at least fair to say McCoy played better against San Diego State. Especially considering that it was on the road with a less talented supporting cast. Considering SDSU coming off 4-8 season, 60-65 new players (depending on which fan or coach you hear), new coaching staff, and more OSU vocal support than SDSU. It was as close to a home away game as a OSU team can expect.
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Post by gnawitall on Sept 9, 2024 10:59:15 GMT -8
I haven't been able to find the highlight of the TD pass. Anyone know where to find it? Thanks
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 9, 2024 11:03:59 GMT -8
You have to wonder... after 2 games?! Great accuracy and touch... 2 games, 2 worst opponents OSU will face... multiple missed wide open receivers... missed seeing open receivers... 16/26 vs that SDSU team. It's two games... vs two bad teams. Let's see what game 3 is like vs talent similar to what DJU faced 9 times. However... no one is mentioning how much pressure the QBs are getting from the pass rush of two inferior teams. Fun to look back and see how many here were happy to see DJU enter the portal🤔 only bad fans would express positivity when a player enters the portal. The right thing to do is wish him well and move on, but there is a sense of being "jilted" when the player leaves. Human nature. We should make it a rule to lock game threads after the postgame show concludes. "McCoy is an upgrade" being slapped out in the stream-of-consciousness live game thread while drunk on both multiple IPA's and an Oregon State victory should not be taken as a thesis that I have to defend. I am at least making a nominal attempt at being objective. Admitting there may be confirmation bias at play. You also make a good point about the quality of competition, so I'll further give ground on that. I am also attempting to give credit for the things that DJU could do that McCoy does not have in his tool kit. I say all this to explain that it's not always intended to be a slight against the outgoing guy nor is it anointing the new guy as the second coming. Sometimes it's just an interesting way to open up a discussion about the remainder of the schedule, after having only seen two games. Wilky participated and it was a decent back and forth. In summary, I am not an anti-DJU guy. Was happy when he came. Was sad to see him leave (though not surprised). I am also happy with McCoy... all of these things can be true at the same time.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 9, 2024 12:19:37 GMT -8
The best third down is the one that you do not face. It is much better to get a first down on first or second down than repeatedly rolling the dice on third down. The number of third downs faced is unreal. Oregon State only faced 18 third downs in the first two games in 2023, converting 10. Oregon State has already faced 30 third downs in 2024. 16 first downs out of those 30. 2023 Oregon State is up 56% to 53% over 2024 Oregon State. Oregon State was doing better on first and second down in 2023. Oregon State also did better on third down in 2023, even though the Beavs faced fewer of them. Where 2024 Oregon State is doing better is fourth down. The 2024 Beavs have faced 14 fourth downs versus eight in 2023. Oregon State went for it five times in 2024, converting three, and once converting zero times in 2024. You may be right about the future. The numbers just do not support the assertion to this point. You have enough game film on McCoy at this point. Teams will make adjustments. I want McCoy to be an upgrade at QB. I just have not seen it yet. Beat the Ducks this weekend, and I will probably start drinking the McCoy Kool-Aid. Also, stop playing Johnson so damned much! Stupid last year. Dumber this year. Without looking at any actual numbers, it feels like we have had a lot of 3rd and 2 or 3 and very few 3rd and 12. 15 of the 30 third downs have been 3rd & 3 or fewer. 13/15 on 3rd & 3 or fewer. 1/2 on 3rd & 4. 2/13 on 3rd & 5+.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 9, 2024 12:28:58 GMT -8
You have to wonder... after 2 games?! Great accuracy and touch... 2 games, 2 worst opponents OSU will face... multiple missed wide open receivers... missed seeing open receivers... 16/26 vs that SDSU team. It's two games... vs two bad teams. Let's see what game 3 is like vs talent similar to what DJU faced 9 times. However... no one is mentioning how much pressure the QBs are getting from the pass rush of two inferior teams. Fun to look back and see how many here were happy to see DJU enter the portal🤔 only bad fans would express positivity when a player enters the portal. The right thing to do is wish him well and move on, but there is a sense of being "jilted" when the player leaves. Human nature. We should make it a rule to lock game threads after the postgame show concludes. "McCoy is an upgrade" being slapped out in the stream-of-consciousness live game thread while drunk on both multiple IPA's and an Oregon State victory should not be taken as a thesis that I have to defend. I am at least making a nominal attempt at being objective. Admitting there may be confirmation bias at play. You also make a good point about the quality of competition, so I'll further give ground on that. I am also attempting to give credit for the things that DJU could do that McCoy does not have in his tool kit. I say all this to explain that it's not always intended to be a slight against the outgoing guy nor is it anointing the new guy as the second coming. Sometimes it's just an interesting way to open up a discussion about the remainder of the schedule, after having only seen two games. Wilky participated and it was a decent back and forth. In summary, I am not an anti-DJU guy. Was happy when he came. Was sad to see him leave (though not surprised). I am also happy with McCoy... all of these things can be true at the same time. I think fans gatekeeping conversation is simply real weird. People want to talk about stuff, let 'em talk. what is the point of a board, otherwise. As long as you aren't being racist/offensive/personally attacking people.... man, just talk about football. People are going to, naturally, compare who we have now, to who we did have, regardless of the circumstances of why the person is no longer here. Graduation or transfer or otherwise. What I find ultimately fascinating is the candle some people are holding for the past guy, whom is no longer a beaver, to the detriment of the guy and the team that currently is a beaver. It is one thing to simply defend the guy. Fine, that is fair. It is another to do so at the detriment of our current guys. to in effect throw them under the bus to elevate the past dude. One guy is currently our starter and should have our unwavering support and by that measure he is better in every single regard. He is the guy that chose to be here. I don't give a s%#t what any stats say. Also, the stats say he is better, so there is that too.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 9, 2024 12:31:26 GMT -8
You have to wonder... after 2 games?! Great accuracy and touch... 2 games, 2 worst opponents OSU will face... multiple missed wide open receivers... missed seeing open receivers... 16/26 vs that SDSU team. It's two games... vs two bad teams. Let's see what game 3 is like vs talent similar to what DJU faced 9 times. However... no one is mentioning how much pressure the QBs are getting from the pass rush of two inferior teams. Fun to look back and see how many here were happy to see DJU enter the portal🤔 only bad fans would express positivity when a player enters the portal. The right thing to do is wish him well and move on, but there is a sense of being "jilted" when the player leaves. Human nature. We should make it a rule to lock game threads after the postgame show concludes. "McCoy is an upgrade" being slapped out in the stream-of-consciousness live game thread while drunk on both multiple IPA's and an Oregon State victory should not be taken as a thesis that I have to defend. I am at least making a nominal attempt at being objective. Admitting there may be confirmation bias at play. You also make a good point about the quality of competition, so I'll further give ground on that. I am also attempting to give credit for the things that DJU could do that McCoy does not have in his tool kit. I say all this to explain that it's not always intended to be a slight against the outgoing guy nor is it anointing the new guy as the second coming. Sometimes it's just an interesting way to open up a discussion about the remainder of the schedule, after having only seen two games. Wilky participated and it was a decent back and forth. In summary, I am not an anti-DJU guy. Was happy when he came. Was sad to see him leave (though not surprised). I am also happy with McCoy... all of these things can be true at the same time. How about this, OA: To me, it looks like McCoy's throwing motion is more fundamentally sound than DJU. It is more fluid and looks a lot more natural. DJU's footwork was sloppy, and he still has a goofy throwing motion. If someone puts the time in on DJU, DJU could be a lot better. At his best, there are few quarterbacks that can match or better DJU. But you definitely do not get his best every play. I have not seen more than 1-2 cringy throws from McCoy. Being a consistently above-average thrower is often better than a more boom and bust quarterback like DJU, especially if the defense and run game keep it up.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 9, 2024 12:41:55 GMT -8
only bad fans would express positivity when a player enters the portal. The right thing to do is wish him well and move on, but there is a sense of being "jilted" when the player leaves. Human nature. We should make it a rule to lock game threads after the postgame show concludes. "McCoy is an upgrade" being slapped out in the stream-of-consciousness live game thread while drunk on both multiple IPA's and an Oregon State victory should not be taken as a thesis that I have to defend. I am at least making a nominal attempt at being objective. Admitting there may be confirmation bias at play. You also make a good point about the quality of competition, so I'll further give ground on that. I am also attempting to give credit for the things that DJU could do that McCoy does not have in his tool kit. I say all this to explain that it's not always intended to be a slight against the outgoing guy nor is it anointing the new guy as the second coming. Sometimes it's just an interesting way to open up a discussion about the remainder of the schedule, after having only seen two games. Wilky participated and it was a decent back and forth. In summary, I am not an anti-DJU guy. Was happy when he came. Was sad to see him leave (though not surprised). I am also happy with McCoy... all of these things can be true at the same time. I think fans gatekeeping conversation is simply real weird. People want to talk about stuff, let 'em talk. what is the point of a board, otherwise. As long as you aren't being racist/offensive/personally attacking people.... man, just talk about football. People are going to, naturally, compare who we have now, to who we did have, regardless of the circumstances of why the person is no longer here. Graduation or transfer or otherwise. What I find ultimately fascinating is the candle some people are holding for the past guy, whom is no longer a beaver, to the detriment of the guy and the team that currently is a beaver. It is one thing to simply defend the guy. Fine, that is fair. It is another to do so at the detriment of our current guys. to in effect throw them under the bus to elevate the past dude. One guy is currently our starter and should have our unwavering support and by that measure he is better in every single regard. He is the guy that chose to be here. I don't give a s%#t what any stats say. Also, the stats say he is better, so there is that too. What stats? The analytics say that DJU had a better first two games in 2023 than McCoy in 2024. I hold no candles. I personally object to unwarranted demagoguery, especially when it is at the expense of former players. If you want to say that McCoy has played well, so far. I agree. He has looked mostly above average. But I disagree that he has looked better than DJU. More consistent? Probably. But it has been against Idaho State and against a rebuilding San Diego State. Do as good or better against Oregon, I am probably hopping on board. I am cheering for McCoy. There is no detriment. I also did not make the original comparison. I was responding, trying to be clear-eyed, not wearing my orange shades.
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obd
Freshman
Posts: 7
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Post by obd on Sept 9, 2024 12:59:47 GMT -8
We place players on a pedestal because of emotional commitment to the team they joined. It is logical, by extension, for us to be correspondingly emotional when they leave. Beaver believers would likely not be rooting for Chiles, DJ or Martinez (for or against) if they never came to OSU. Maybe not right, but it is certainly human nature.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 9, 2024 13:23:51 GMT -8
Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great. We’ll find out a lot about McCoy against Oregon. That being said, I want to point out who DJ’s 3rd game was against. It was a home game against San Diego State. 14-30 with 1 TD and 2 Ints. It’s at least fair to say McCoy played better against San Diego State. Especially considering that it was on the road with a less talented supporting cast. Only one returning starter on defense in 2024, Tupu Alualu, the defensive tackle. Zyrus Fiaseu transferred to Arizona State. Dez Malone transferred to Oklahoma. Davaughn Celestine transferred to SMU. Cooper McDonald transferred to TCU. Marcus Ratcliffe transferred to Texas A&M. Brady Hoke retired last year. Sean Lewis, Colorado's OC/QB coach replaced him. Eric Schmidt (Washington's special teams coordinator/EDGE coach) replaced Kurt Mattix as DC. San Diego State changed defenses from a base 3-3-5 to a 4-2-5. Similar uniforms to last year but little else was the same.
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Post by 93beav on Sept 9, 2024 13:38:12 GMT -8
only bad fans would express positivity when a player enters the portal. The right thing to do is wish him well and move on, but there is a sense of being "jilted" when the player leaves. Human nature. We should make it a rule to lock game threads after the postgame show concludes. "McCoy is an upgrade" being slapped out in the stream-of-consciousness live game thread while drunk on both multiple IPA's and an Oregon State victory should not be taken as a thesis that I have to defend. I am at least making a nominal attempt at being objective. Admitting there may be confirmation bias at play. You also make a good point about the quality of competition, so I'll further give ground on that. I am also attempting to give credit for the things that DJU could do that McCoy does not have in his tool kit. I say all this to explain that it's not always intended to be a slight against the outgoing guy nor is it anointing the new guy as the second coming. Sometimes it's just an interesting way to open up a discussion about the remainder of the schedule, after having only seen two games. Wilky participated and it was a decent back and forth. In summary, I am not an anti-DJU guy. Was happy when he came. Was sad to see him leave (though not surprised). I am also happy with McCoy... all of these things can be true at the same time. How about this, OA: To me, it looks like McCoy's throwing motion is more fundamentally sound than DJU. It is more fluid and looks a lot more natural. DJU's footwork was sloppy, and he still has a goofy throwing motion. If someone puts the time in on DJU, DJU could be a lot better. At his best, there are few quarterbacks that can match or better DJU. But you definitely do not get his best every play. I have not seen more than 1-2 cringy throws from McCoy. Being a consistently above-average thrower is often better than a more boom and bust quarterback like DJU, especially if the defense and run game keep it up. And here I thought the game day experience was over! McCoy is seemingly, after these first two games, more consistent than DJU. Read stats however you'd like, it's purely a gut feel. If DJU scrambled, I wasn't sure he could always scramble effectively, but I knew he could throw it away better than Chance. I feel like McCoy can scramble effectively. I feel like McCoy doesn't get phased by quick slants whereas with DJU it felt like anything less than 10 yds was something of an effort on his part. And his inconsistency was maddening when you'd see him paint a Michelangelo of a pass followed by Hasbro's My First Pass right after. I liked DJU, I really did. But, like golf, if you can hit the ball 300 yds but 70% of the time it ends up in the water, it doesn't do you much good. Hit 150 consistently up the middle of the green and you'll be in better shape.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 9, 2024 15:22:47 GMT -8
I think fans gatekeeping conversation is simply real weird. People want to talk about stuff, let 'em talk. what is the point of a board, otherwise. As long as you aren't being racist/offensive/personally attacking people.... man, just talk about football. People are going to, naturally, compare who we have now, to who we did have, regardless of the circumstances of why the person is no longer here. Graduation or transfer or otherwise. What I find ultimately fascinating is the candle some people are holding for the past guy, whom is no longer a beaver, to the detriment of the guy and the team that currently is a beaver. It is one thing to simply defend the guy. Fine, that is fair. It is another to do so at the detriment of our current guys. to in effect throw them under the bus to elevate the past dude. One guy is currently our starter and should have our unwavering support and by that measure he is better in every single regard. He is the guy that chose to be here. I don't give a s%#t what any stats say. Also, the stats say he is better, so there is that too. What stats? The analytics say that DJU had a better first two games in 2023 than McCoy in 2024. I hold no candles. I personally object to unwarranted demagoguery, especially when it is at the expense of former players. If you want to say that McCoy has played well, so far. I agree. He has looked mostly above average. But I disagree that he has looked better than DJU. More consistent? Probably. But it has been against Idaho State and against a rebuilding San Diego State. Do as good or better against Oregon, I am probably hopping on board. I am cheering for McCoy. There is no detriment. I also did not make the original comparison. I was responding, trying to be clear-eyed, not wearing my orange shades. "Once a Beaver, always a Beaver" in itself, is demagoguery.
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Post by Werebeaver on Sept 9, 2024 15:35:40 GMT -8
I think fans gatekeeping conversation is simply real weird. People want to talk about stuff, let 'em talk. what is the point of a board, otherwise. As long as you aren't being racist/offensive/personally attacking people.... man, just talk about football. People are going to, naturally, compare who we have now, to who we did have, regardless of the circumstances of why the person is no longer here. Graduation or transfer or otherwise. What I find ultimately fascinating is the candle some people are holding for the past guy, whom is no longer a beaver, to the detriment of the guy and the team that currently is a beaver. It is one thing to simply defend the guy. Fine, that is fair. It is another to do so at the detriment of our current guys. to in effect throw them under the bus to elevate the past dude. One guy is currently our starter and should have our unwavering support and by that measure he is better in every single regard. He is the guy that chose to be here. I don't give a s%#t what any stats say. Also, the stats say he is better, so there is that too. What stats? The analytics say that DJU had a better first two games in 2023 than McCoy in 2024. I hold no candles. I personally object to unwarranted demagoguery, especially when it is at the expense of former players. If you want to say that McCoy has played well, so far. I agree. He has looked mostly above average. But I disagree that he has looked better than DJU. More consistent? Probably. But it has been against Idaho State and against a rebuilding San Diego State. Do as good or better against Oregon, I am probably hopping on board. I am cheering for McCoy. There is no detriment. I also did not make the original comparison. I was responding, trying to be clear-eyed, not wearing my orange shades. “I personally object to unwarranted demagoguery..” As opposed to valid and justified demagoguery.
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Post by clydebeav on Sept 9, 2024 16:17:30 GMT -8
We’ll find out a lot about McCoy against Oregon. That being said, I want to point out who DJ’s 3rd game was against. It was a home game against San Diego State. 14-30 with 1 TD and 2 Ints. It’s at least fair to say McCoy played better against San Diego State. Especially considering that it was on the road with a less talented supporting cast. Only one returning starter on defense in 2024, Tupu Alualu, the defensive tackle. Zyrus Fiaseu transferred to Arizona State. Dez Malone transferred to Oklahoma. Davaughn Celestine transferred to SMU. Cooper McDonald transferred to TCU. Marcus Ratcliffe transferred to Texas A&M. Brady Hoke retired last year. Sean Lewis, Colorado's OC/QB coach replaced him. Eric Schmidt (Washington's special teams coordinator/EDGE coach) replaced Kurt Mattix as DC. San Diego State changed defenses from a base 3-3-5 to a 4-2-5. Similar uniforms to last year but little else was the same. The same could be said for the Beavers offense.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 9, 2024 17:31:51 GMT -8
What stats? The analytics say that DJU had a better first two games in 2023 than McCoy in 2024. I hold no candles. I personally object to unwarranted demagoguery, especially when it is at the expense of former players. If you want to say that McCoy has played well, so far. I agree. He has looked mostly above average. But I disagree that he has looked better than DJU. More consistent? Probably. But it has been against Idaho State and against a rebuilding San Diego State. Do as good or better against Oregon, I am probably hopping on board. I am cheering for McCoy. There is no detriment. I also did not make the original comparison. I was responding, trying to be clear-eyed, not wearing my orange shades. “I personally object to unwarranted demagoguery..” As opposed to valid and justified demagoguery. I wish that you and atownbeaver had read each other's post before posting. I am not opposed to all demagoguery for the reasons stated in ATown's post. I am opposed to unwarranted demagoguery. I included the word "unwarranted" to specifically differentiate it from all demagoguery. It is kind of humorous to me that both you and ATown basically disprove the point made in the other's post. I.e. I said "unwarranted" demagoguery, which you caught an ATown did not. And I am not opposed to all demagoguery for the reasons stated by ATown, which is why I included the word "unwarranted." I will stand by my post.
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