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Post by korculabeav on Sept 8, 2024 13:03:40 GMT -8
We upgraded at QB this year I am not sure we are allowed to have this conversation. We might need to check in with the authorities. McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 8, 2024 14:41:23 GMT -8
Oregon and Oregon State entered the 1933 Civil War undefeated. Oregon was 7-0, and Oregon State was 5-0-2. 1910 was kind of similar. Oregon was 3-0, and Oregon State was 3-0-1. There was a big brawl after that game, and Oregon and Oregon State suspended the rivalry in all sports until 1912. 1907 was the last time that both Oregon and Oregon State were both unbeaten and untied. Both teams were 3-0. Oregon State won 4-0 (field goals worth four points at the time). The Beavs finished 1907 unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon. Oregon State finished the season by beating St. Vincent's (now Loyola Marymount) 10-0. St. Vincent's were the champions of California and had defeated the Rocky Mountain Champions, Denver and Utah. With the win, the Beavs were dubbed Champions of the West Coast. Sounds right nice research. Minor historical correction, it was OAC until 1937 and OSC until 1961. I can get hypertechnical, if you would like. OAC stopped being Oregon State's name in 1927. Then, it was Oregon State Agricultural College. So, for example, my saying Oregon State in 1933 is both presently accurate and historically accurate. Oregon Agricultural College was Oregon State's official name between 1907 and 1927. Before that, it was officially State Agricultural College with Oregon Agricultural College being unofficially used to try and avoid the obvious confusion caused in its use.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 8, 2024 14:54:19 GMT -8
I am not sure we are allowed to have this conversation. We might need to check in with the authorities. McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency. Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great.
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Post by beaver1989 on Sept 8, 2024 16:02:35 GMT -8
McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency. Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great. Our passing game is a work in progress at this point. New QB, New receivers, and new coaches made this inevitable. McCoy certainly doesn't have DJU's arm strength and I've seen multiple times where if a completion was more accurate, the WR would have better YAC. It's way too early to say McCoy > DJU in my opinion. However, I like McCoy and fhink he can help win plenty of games for us.
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Post by TheGlove on Sept 8, 2024 16:05:47 GMT -8
McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency. Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great. You’re the only one bringing up McCoy and Heisman.
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Post by irimi on Sept 8, 2024 16:24:19 GMT -8
Kinda silly to compare the two. DJU took over a well-formed team that had a history. This team is a jigsaw puzzle that hasn’t had much time to come together. But I like what McCoy is doing and he is a Beaver, not DJU.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 8, 2024 16:48:59 GMT -8
Two games into 2023, DJU looked a billion times better than McCoy has so far. DJU's third game was his worst game of the season. If McCoy puts up a great game against Oregon, I might start to get on board. But I do not really think that we should start up the Heisman talk after games against Idaho State and San Diego State. I want McCoy to be great. But I am still waiting for great. You’re the only one bringing up McCoy and Heisman. It is a reductio ad absurdum argument on my part. My point is that it is way too early to start talking about comparing McCoy to DJU. McCoy has been above average certainly, but he has not been called to do a heckuva lot. The offense needs to work a lot better going forward, unless the defense keeps playing out of their minds.
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 8, 2024 20:26:25 GMT -8
I am not sure we are allowed to have this conversation. We might need to check in with the authorities. McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency. When the season is over, his 3rd down completion ratio is going to smoke DJ. McCoy’s accuracy and touch were at a higher level than DJU. He has an acceptable arm and shows good athleticism. DJ showed flashes of brilliance that I don’t think McCoy has the ability to do, but he’s so much more consistent.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 8, 2024 21:30:27 GMT -8
McCoy > DJU in game effectiveness and disciplined consistency. When the season is over, his 3rd down completion ratio is going to smoke DJ. McCoy’s accuracy and touch were at a higher level than DJU. He has an acceptable arm and shows good athleticism. DJ showed flashes of brilliance that I don’t think McCoy has the ability to do, but he’s so much more consistent. The best third down is the one that you do not face. It is much better to get a first down on first or second down than repeatedly rolling the dice on third down. The number of third downs faced is unreal. Oregon State only faced 18 third downs in the first two games in 2023, converting 10. Oregon State has already faced 30 third downs in 2024. 16 first downs out of those 30. 2023 Oregon State is up 56% to 53% over 2024 Oregon State. Oregon State was doing better on first and second down in 2023. Oregon State also did better on third down in 2023, even though the Beavs faced fewer of them. Where 2024 Oregon State is doing better is fourth down. The 2024 Beavs have faced 14 fourth downs versus eight in 2023. Oregon State went for it five times in 2024, converting three, and once converting zero times in 2024. You may be right about the future. The numbers just do not support the assertion to this point. You have enough game film on McCoy at this point. Teams will make adjustments. I want McCoy to be an upgrade at QB. I just have not seen it yet. Beat the Ducks this weekend, and I will probably start drinking the McCoy Kool-Aid. Also, stop playing Johnson so damned much! Stupid last year. Dumber this year.
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Post by grayman on Sept 8, 2024 22:51:01 GMT -8
When the season is over, his 3rd down completion ratio is going to smoke DJ. McCoy’s accuracy and touch were at a higher level than DJU. He has an acceptable arm and shows good athleticism. DJ showed flashes of brilliance that I don’t think McCoy has the ability to do, but he’s so much more consistent. The best third down is the one that you do not face. It is much better to get a first down on first or second down than repeatedly rolling the dice on third down. The number of third downs faced is unreal. Oregon State only faced 18 third downs in the first two games in 2023, converting 10. Oregon State has already faced 30 third downs in 2024. 16 first downs out of those 30. 2023 Oregon State is up 56% to 53% over 2024 Oregon State. Oregon State was doing better on first and second down in 2023. Oregon State also did better on third down in 2023, even though the Beavs faced fewer of them. Where 2024 Oregon State is doing better is fourth down. The 2024 Beavs have faced 14 fourth downs versus eight in 2023. Oregon State went for it five times in 2024, converting three, and once converting zero times in 2024. You may be right about the future. The numbers just do not support the assertion to this point. You have enough game film on McCoy at this point. Teams will make adjustments. I want McCoy to be an upgrade at QB. I just have not seen it yet. Beat the Ducks this weekend, and I will probably start drinking the McCoy Kool-Aid. Also, stop playing Johnson so damned much! Stupid last year. Dumber this year. But the third down issue isn't due to QB play, it's because the Beavers have run so much and really haven't disguised it. When you don't score for nearly three full quarters, maybe it's time to mix it up a little (which it did seem that they did in the fourth).
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 8, 2024 23:24:15 GMT -8
But... if you look at the staff it's fairly obvious the more experienced have their side of the ball playing better. Of course overall, folks will say it's easier to get a defense playing well. So far it feels like we're more talented on the offense than we've shown. Or been allowed to show?! Let the ponies out of the stable... And that's the rub. The only ponies out of the stable have been running backs. OSU has run the ball 109 times in two games. McCoy looks pretty good in the pass game but OSU has thrown 41 times in the two games. There's been few (3-4) attempts at stretching the field. Most passes have been relatively short routes. It's almost like they've overcorrected after taking a fair amount of shots down the field in previous seasons. Either way, basically three WRs have been in the mix for OSU. I know Clemons should change that once he's able to play. But maybe try a deep shot to Card once in awhile. Maybe get Caulfield/other TEs more involved in the pass game. Maybe try to get Allah in space with a couple passes. I'm not saying they need to step away from a physical, run oriented identity. But I just think you're leaving a lot on the cutting room floor so far. It's obvious that McCoy is more than just some dude that hands off the ball. My feeling is the offense we saw in the 1st game wasn't indicative of the offense they are putting in this season. The second wasn't either probably. They have thrown only 41 passes in 150 offensive plays. One could say it was 41 more than needed to win against those particular teams.... they didn't need to pass to win. The Beavs have been averaging 5.5 yards per rushing attempt so far - that's nutz! One could argue every first down is in 4 down territory... Brat and company kinda made that argument on their own side of thw foeld fairly early on Saturday (didn't pan out though). My suspicion is they're still putting it all together with a group of kids that haven't necessarilly had years together.... AND.... they're playing a (still) highly ranked team next Saturday where a win could put OSU into the conversation, maybe not in to the conversation of the stated goal of being in the playoffs, but into the conversation of being a team to watch. In these first two games OSU had no reason to telegraph it's full offensive potential to our next opponent. The more one dimensional OSU looks the better going into that game. So far, OSU has shown 3 or 4 medim long to long passes, 1 tight end pass, a flea flicker and a few odds and ends. If they are trying to keep a few things under wraps, they've been fairly successful. What we've seen so far hasn't been been bad at all. This might not be a pass heavy offense, but I bet we see more than we've seen so far when it's needed. Instead of parts of the passing playbook being on the cutting room floor, I think it might be being held in strategic reserve for when it's needed to some degree.
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Post by ag87 on Sept 9, 2024 2:30:49 GMT -8
When the season is over, his 3rd down completion ratio is going to smoke DJ. McCoy’s accuracy and touch were at a higher level than DJU. He has an acceptable arm and shows good athleticism. DJ showed flashes of brilliance that I don’t think McCoy has the ability to do, but he’s so much more consistent. The best third down is the one that you do not face. It is much better to get a first down on first or second down than repeatedly rolling the dice on third down. The number of third downs faced is unreal. Oregon State only faced 18 third downs in the first two games in 2023, converting 10. Oregon State has already faced 30 third downs in 2024. 16 first downs out of those 30. 2023 Oregon State is up 56% to 53% over 2024 Oregon State. Oregon State was doing better on first and second down in 2023. Oregon State also did better on third down in 2023, even though the Beavs faced fewer of them. Where 2024 Oregon State is doing better is fourth down. The 2024 Beavs have faced 14 fourth downs versus eight in 2023. Oregon State went for it five times in 2024, converting three, and once converting zero times in 2024. You may be right about the future. The numbers just do not support the assertion to this point. You have enough game film on McCoy at this point. Teams will make adjustments. I want McCoy to be an upgrade at QB. I just have not seen it yet. Beat the Ducks this weekend, and I will probably start drinking the McCoy Kool-Aid. Also, stop playing Johnson so damned much! Stupid last year. Dumber this year. Without looking at any actual numbers, it feels like we have had a lot of 3rd and 2 or 3 and very few 3rd and 12.
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 9, 2024 9:23:53 GMT -8
When the season is over, his 3rd down completion ratio is going to smoke DJ. McCoy’s accuracy and touch were at a higher level than DJU. He has an acceptable arm and shows good athleticism. DJ showed flashes of brilliance that I don’t think McCoy has the ability to do, but he’s so much more consistent. The best third down is the one that you do not face. It is much better to get a first down on first or second down than repeatedly rolling the dice on third down. The number of third downs faced is unreal. Oregon State only faced 18 third downs in the first two games in 2023, converting 10. Oregon State has already faced 30 third downs in 2024. 16 first downs out of those 30. 2023 Oregon State is up 56% to 53% over 2024 Oregon State. Oregon State was doing better on first and second down in 2023. Oregon State also did better on third down in 2023, even though the Beavs faced fewer of them. Where 2024 Oregon State is doing better is fourth down. The 2024 Beavs have faced 14 fourth downs versus eight in 2023. Oregon State went for it five times in 2024, converting three, and once converting zero times in 2024. You may be right about the future. The numbers just do not support the assertion to this point. You have enough game film on McCoy at this point. Teams will make adjustments. I want McCoy to be an upgrade at QB. I just have not seen it yet. Beat the Ducks this weekend, and I will probably start drinking the McCoy Kool-Aid. Also, stop playing Johnson so damned much! Stupid last year. Dumber this year. I fully allow for the possibility that there is confirmation bias at work here. But the eyeball test for McCoy so far shows accuracy and touch, as well as acceptable arm strength. I never did see that much in the way of touch/accuracy from DJU. Certainly not for an entire game. It was always the part of his game that he needed to develop the most. Saw lots of god-given talent, running ability, arm strength, the ability to move in the pocket, all there... but touch and location of the ball was something that was consistently lagging behind. It's difficult to quantify that, but it's a gut feeling that I can sum up thusly: DJU was not a clutch passer. McCoy appears to be.
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Post by speakthetruth on Sept 9, 2024 9:42:53 GMT -8
In comparing Mccoy and dju. Mccoy has had two long passes. Both on target. One a touchdown against Idaho state. One should have been a touchdown but dropped against san diego state. Dju often didn't hit his targets.
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 9, 2024 9:58:19 GMT -8
You have to wonder... after 2 games?!
Great accuracy and touch... 2 games, 2 worst opponents OSU will face... multiple missed wide open receivers... missed seeing open receivers... 16/26 vs that SDSU team.
It's two games... vs two bad teams. Let's see what game 3 is like vs talent similar to what DJU faced 9 times.
However... no one is mentioning how much pressure the QBs are getting from the pass rush of two inferior teams.
Fun to look back and see how many here were happy to see DJU enter the portal🤔
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