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Post by grayman on Aug 10, 2024 9:47:47 GMT -8
Almost the entire WBB team left. The WCC move was the driving factor. Beers came out and said it. So yeah, that's real evidence.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 10, 2024 11:10:45 GMT -8
Almost the entire WBB team left. The WCC move was the driving factor. Beers came out and said it. So yeah, that's real evidence. It's real evidence some players, in some sports, recruited to a Pac-12 program left when it was to become a WCC program. I've never disputed that elsewhere, nor am I disputing that on this thread. It's not evidence at all of players recruited to a WCC program leaving a WCC program. Believe Wilner if you want, we have NO shot at Big 12 membership as long as the ACC remains intact. And it appears that's exactly what will happen for another couple years at least. From the latest Hotline: Others who are reporting that Washington State and Oregon State are negotiating with the Big 12 seem to be questioning the Hotline’s credibility. — @celestialmosh
Let them question all they want — that’s all part of the social media machinery when it comes to realignment, the most difficult subject in college athletics to cover accurately.
Now, to be clear: My understanding is that the Cougars and Beavers are, in fact, in discussions with the Big 12 and ACC, but those discussions are limited to football scheduling for 2025 and beyond.
Joining the Big 12 isn’t an option for WSU and OSU. The Big 12 doesn’t want them, which is unfortunate but makes sense.
What has changed in the past year that would prompt the conference to reverse course on its membership strategy?
To spur ESPN and Fox to spend money they aren’t currently spending?
(Answer: Nothing has changed.)
That said, if the ACC implodes, the calculation changes — for both the ACC and, perhaps, the Big 12.
As long as the current conference structure exists, there is no path for the Cougars and Beavers into the Big 12 in the next few years.
sports360az.com/wilner-mailbag-how-the-acc-will-shape-realignment-tv-options-for-wsu-and-osu-big-ten-half-shares-cals-future-and-more/The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club. I have seen nothing in the past six months to alter my belief that a merger with the MWC is the best path forward for our entire athletic department, financially, competitively and academically. Our days as a P4 program are over. That sucks, but it's reality. So, find the top G5 league and join it. And it just so happens the premier G5 league is conveniently located within our geographic footprint. We also have a history of across-the-board competition in almost every sport we offer with virtually every MWC member except Air Force. |
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Post by grayman on Aug 10, 2024 12:37:10 GMT -8
As I said before, the WCC is fine for programs like volleyball, softball and soccer and there are no real reasons for players to leave due to joining the WCC.
There was for women's basketball. The men's program also lost a bunch of players, although I can't say for sure how much of that was directly related to joining the WCC or just the state of the program.
Baseball and probably gymnastics and wrestling will not be in the WCC.
As far as the realignment stuff, I pay attention to all of it because I find it to be very interesting and it's highly relevant to OSU. I read/watch just about anyone that I can find. That includes Wilner, Canzano, Dennis Dodd, McMurphy, Dellenger, etc.
I know you are convinced that OSU and WSU will land in the MWC and that's fine. I have never claimed that this will not happen.
But what I do believe is that the Pac-2 leadership is working to get into a power conference and that is the main priority. They are very well aware of the situation with the ACC and what it will mean once FSU and Clemson (and most likely other schools) leave. And we're definitely talking within the next few years, not the 2036 date. I believe there is a high possibility that FSU and Clemson just expedite the process after a certain point.
As far as what Wilner says vs. MHver3, who knows? Wilner is definitely a real journalist but he did get a lot wrong on the destruction of the Pac-12. There is talk that MHver3 is actually a burner account for someone who seems to have connections/sources in the Big 12. He throws a lot of stuff out there but he has been right about a couple of big things.
I believe he has a source or sources but not sure how reliable they are. I posted his stuff because it was of interest.
One thing I do think is a potential positive for the Pac-2 in the eyes of Yormark is that it can add time slots that the Big 12 definitely could use.
I think the biggest reason Yormark did not add OSU and WSU in the first place was geography. That definitely could change to keep geographical balance if the Big 12 adds a few ACC teams, especially if they want to go to 24 teams, or if they just don't get what they really want out of the ACC.
And if the Big 12 did happen, that means OSU could play WSU, BYU, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Arizona State, so travel would definitely not be nearly as much of an issue as what faces UO, UW, UCLA, USC, Cal and Stanford right now.
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Post by grayman on Aug 10, 2024 12:59:24 GMT -8
"The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club."
Then why would the Pac-2 do it? You actually think they would enter into an agreement without thinking that there would be some benefit?
No, if this happens it would be to potentially join the Big 12 in some form after 2026. But I doubt that the Pac-2 is just going to agree with a handshake and a pat on the back.
And if OSU and WSU are actually talking to the Big 12 about this, what does this say about how they view joining the MWC?
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 10, 2024 16:06:38 GMT -8
"The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club." Then why would the Pac-2 do it? You actually think they would enter into an agreement without thinking that there would be some benefit? No, if this happens it would be to potentially join the Big 12 in some form after 2026. But I doubt that the Pac-2 is just going to agree with a handshake and a pat on the back. And if OSU and WSU are actually talking to the Big 12 about this, what does this say about how they view joining the MWC? I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. |
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Post by ftd on Aug 10, 2024 16:30:32 GMT -8
"The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club." Then why would the Pac-2 do it? You actually think they would enter into an agreement without thinking that there would be some benefit? No, if this happens it would be to potentially join the Big 12 in some form after 2026. But I doubt that the Pac-2 is just going to agree with a handshake and a pat on the back. And if OSU and WSU are actually talking to the Big 12 about this, what does this say about how they view joining the MWC? I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. as the Pac-12 or the MWC? |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 10, 2024 18:01:55 GMT -8
I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. as the Pac-12 or the MWC? As the Pac-12, of course. The Pac-12 has the money and the more-recognizable brand name. |
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Post by ostate on Aug 10, 2024 19:45:00 GMT -8
I think there is an opportunity for the Pac 12 to continue as a conference made up of solely olympic sports (perhaps other 'non-revenue' sports) once all this realignment for football and basketball (hopefully baseball too) winds down.
Consolidate all of the top west coast schools that sponsors sports like swimming, water polo, wrestling, soccer, volleyball, etc... into one, regional conference - stream it all online with a subscription and make some money on the side...
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Post by grayman on Aug 10, 2024 20:17:29 GMT -8
I think there is an opportunity for the Pac 12 to continue as a conference made up of solely olympic sports (perhaps other 'non-revenue' sports) once all this realignment for football and basketball (hopefully baseball too) winds down. Consolidate all of the top west coast schools that sponsors sports like swimming, water polo, wrestling, soccer, volleyball, etc... into one, regional conference - stream it all online with a subscription and make some money on the side... Funny, I was thinking about this earlier today. Very well could happen at some point. |
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Post by grayman on Aug 10, 2024 20:30:03 GMT -8
"The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club." Then why would the Pac-2 do it? You actually think they would enter into an agreement without thinking that there would be some benefit? No, if this happens it would be to potentially join the Big 12 in some form after 2026. But I doubt that the Pac-2 is just going to agree with a handshake and a pat on the back. And if OSU and WSU are actually talking to the Big 12 about this, what does this say about how they view joining the MWC? I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. Maybe Wazzu. Much lower athletic budget and there were reports that Yormark had OSU on his list and not WSU. But I don't think either school is blinded. They either have a pretty good idea of where they are headed or they are waiting for the ACC dominoes to fall. |
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Post by sparty on Aug 11, 2024 5:33:33 GMT -8
"The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club." Then why would the Pac-2 do it? You actually think they would enter into an agreement without thinking that there would be some benefit? No, if this happens it would be to potentially join the Big 12 in some form after 2026. But I doubt that the Pac-2 is just going to agree with a handshake and a pat on the back. And if OSU and WSU are actually talking to the Big 12 about this, what does this say about how they view joining the MWC? I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. So does the record in football matter in the next two years more than ever? That may decide the direction to some degtee. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 11, 2024 9:40:31 GMT -8
"The Big 12 will gladly exploit us and Wazzu for decent OOC football games, at $2 million per game, a huge cost to us. We'd be nothing more than the hired help at their country club." Then why would the Pac-2 do it? You actually think they would enter into an agreement without thinking that there would be some benefit? No, if this happens it would be to potentially join the Big 12 in some form after 2026. But I doubt that the Pac-2 is just going to agree with a handshake and a pat on the back. And if OSU and WSU are actually talking to the Big 12 about this, what does this say about how they view joining the MWC? I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. The MW may very well be our destiny. But why rush into it? We are waiting to see what happens with the ACC, as we should. Joining the MW is what is left when all other avenues have been looked into. I mean if we are MW now, or two years from now, what does it really matter? The revenue, and level of athlete we attract will just be what it is......the only real questions will be what cuts are made in the AD, and trying to retain what's most important. I think it's important to remember that we could easily lose our coaching staff, and then the program could completely fall apart......this idea of us just waltzing in and winning MW championships could be a pipe dream......my point is it can always get worse. And just because we enjoyed recent success, and it feels relatively stable with Bray at the helm, we don't know if that stability will last. |
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Post by grayman on Aug 11, 2024 10:24:36 GMT -8
I think they (we more than Wazzu, at this point) are blinded to some degree and are chasing the fool's gold that is 3-4 years of affiliate P4 membership, before the next round of relegation. ADs who have been P4 ADs want to keep being P4 ADs. They are keeping their options open, which is good, to a degree. At some point - say, the spring of 2025 - they will realize it's time to fish or cut bait, that we need to land someplace. It's my hope they realize the MWC is the best long-term option. I think Wazzu will realize this before OSU. I also believe if WSU and OSU and the MWC would just pull the trigger, a wide majority of fans from both schools (most of whom are nowhere near as passionate as those on this board) would simply say, "Great, we have a plan, we have a league, now let's get on with it and start winning some championships," and be perfectly happy with the level of competition. Other's mileage may vary, NBD. The MW may very well be our destiny. But why rush into it? We are waiting to see what happens with the ACC, as we should. Joining the MW is what is left when all other avenues have been looked into. I mean if we are MW now, or two years from now, what does it really matter? The revenue, and level of athlete we attract will just be what it is......the only real questions will be what cuts are made in the AD, and trying to retain what's most important. I think it's important to remember that we could easily lose our coaching staff, and then the program could completely fall apart......this idea of us just waltzing in and winning MW championships could be a pipe dream......my point is it can always get worse. And just because we enjoyed recent success, and it feels relatively stable with Bray at the helm, we don't know if that stability will last. Yep. 100 percent. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 11, 2024 10:25:52 GMT -8
It's been a year at this point and will be 18 months by next spring. No one is rushing into anything. Universal thinking is the ACC is going to exist, in its present state, for at least two years. And if it does break up, the Big 12 will take SMU, Stanford and Cal long before it would consider us.
But there is a drop-dead point. Athletes we are recruiting from the HS classes of 2025, 2026 and beyond want to know where they will be playing if they choose OSU. Fans need to know what to expect. Coaches need to know what to expect. We have to long-term budget appropriately. Scheduling issues must be resolved.
I don't believe the MWC is "what's left." It's the best P5 conference in the country. I think it's a far superior option to being an auxiliary of the Big 12, forced to pay $2 million for every single football game, not eligible for a conference championship, living another season in limbo. We can't make any money if the guarantee is $2 million every week.
And I certainly never said we'd "waltz right in" to the MWC and win championships. I said, let's join them and start competing for conference championships. That's not an option at this point for our baseball, football, gymnastics, wrestling and track programs, who have no conference championship to aspire to.
Furthermore, I've tried to never look at anything from an "it can always get worse" perspective. You do that, you're lost from the start. It's an excuse for complacency.
Again, other's mileage may vary. NBD.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 11, 2024 10:52:13 GMT -8
It's been a year at this point and will be 18 months by next spring. No one is rushing into anything. Universal thinking is the ACC is going to exist, in its present state, for at least two years. And if it does break up, the Big 12 will take SMU, Stanford and Cal long before it would consider us. But there is a drop-dead point. Athletes we are recruiting from the HS classes of 2025, 2026 and beyond want to know where they will be playing if they choose OSU. Fans need to know what to expect. Coaches need to know what to expect. We have to long-term budget appropriately. Scheduling issues must be resolved. I don't believe the MWC is "what's left." It's the best P5 conference in the country. I think it's a far superior option to being an auxiliary of the Big 12, forced to pay $2 million for every single football game, not eligible for a conference championship, living another season in limbo. We can't make any money if the guarantee is $2 million every week. And I certainly never said we'd "waltz right in" to the MWC and win championships. I said, let's join them and start competing for conference championships. That's not an option at this point for our baseball, football, gymnastics, wrestling and track programs, who have no conference championship to aspire to. Furthermore, I've tried to never look at anything from an "it can always get worse" perspective. You do that, you're lost from the start. It's an excuse for complacency. Again, other's mileage may vary. NBD. You mean G5, right? I don't want to split hairs on this... I get that we need a concrete direction for all the reasons, you stated, and more. I do think there is a sentiment (not trying to single anyone out) that we are at a level above the MW, and that we could dominate, and go to the playoffs, etc, etc...i just think this is very presumptuous. We will not be on the same level in football, as we were last season, if we join the MW. We just won't attract the same level of recruit. We were winning recruiting battles for kids who had LEGIT options across the board at P5 schools. That will no longer be the case. And yes, Bray understands that we will likely be in a position that we have to develop diamonds in the rough, get a year or two, and watch em get poached......this will happen at a MUCH higher rate then ever before. I still hold out a sliver of hope that if we can somehow get into the Big 12, we put ourselves in a position to at least be slightly less of a farm team. Better competition. Better TV slots.....and yea, maybe at first the financials don't make sense, but if there is a legit chance to be playing okie st, TCU, etc over New Mexico, Nevada, San Jose, etc.....you gotta try for that, imo. |
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