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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 8, 2024 10:55:43 GMT -8
This is all (or at least mostly) coming from MHver3 on X, so grain of salt. He is now reporting that WVU and a few other Big 12 schools are proposing to Yormark that the Big 12 enters into a scheduling alliance with the Pac-2 and if the ratings are satisfactory then an invitation would be made with entrance fee (alleviates travel costs for them) and a graduated buy-in. Would not be a full share member until next TV contract. The Pac-2 halts all legal disputes with networks during evaluation period. Pac-2 relinquishes all Pac-12 assets. It's pretty obvious that OSU and WSU aren't going to go for that. A scheduling alliance with the Big 12 for 2025 would make a lot of sense if the Pac-2 is joining at some point. But not as a tryout. The challenge is, we'd have no issue is this was the last two years. We'd have solid ratings and be a shoe in. Nationally ranked team on the upswing people were tuning into. We are now on the outside looking in, with our roster being raided and fighting for our lives. We are not on fair footing to make a rating showing. That has to be considered. Big 12 needs to look at what we WERE doing, on our own, when we were in the Pac. look at what we pulled when we faced SDSU, and other teams where they were not the name draw. We are a ticket for that conference to get west coast eyes on them more. There is an advantage here I really think they are overlooking. They need to stop thinking about their inherent perception of the name Oregon State, and look at the real numbers of what we were doing on TV. We had good numbers. we really did. But if they hem and haw over it, OSU erodes and gets left behind and all we become is the Big 12's self fulfilled prophecy. Put us back in a P4, stabilize OSU, and OSU will bring the eyes. Just stop dicking around over it all ready, it is stupid. There is a huge opportunity for a western region, a huge opportunity for Big 12 to get new eyes from screens they really haven't had before, PDX and Seattle, primarily. There is nothing to loose and with our war chest, OSU/WSU can even sweeten the pot and self fund our selves and take reduced payouts for several seasons. This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about all of this. A healthy OSU football program has a large fan base, with plenty of eyes on TV's. The TV numbers were definitely there last season. We just need a seat at the table to allow us to attract the level of recruit to compete at a P4 level. Less money....big deal! We've been operating with less money as an AD in the Pac and done alright in football. Makes what milk maid did even worse when you think in terms of momentum for our school. I wouldn't go as far as saying we were a shoe in had milk maid re-committed to OSU, and been present all last season.....but who knows? That's not the guy he is, so it doesn't matter anymore. He clearly doesn't care about OSU's future in this crazy college sports landscape. He made that abundantly clear. Lots of dominoes yet to fall. If I'm honest, right now I feel pretty pessimistic. It feels like we are destined to be a full time MW member, and a farm team for P4 schools......I really hope not, but if it happens I'll get used to it, and life goes on. |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 8, 2024 11:31:22 GMT -8
The challenge is, we'd have no issue is this was the last two years. We'd have solid ratings and be a shoe in. Nationally ranked team on the upswing people were tuning into. We are now on the outside looking in, with our roster being raided and fighting for our lives. We are not on fair footing to make a rating showing. That has to be considered. Big 12 needs to look at what we WERE doing, on our own, when we were in the Pac. look at what we pulled when we faced SDSU, and other teams where they were not the name draw. We are a ticket for that conference to get west coast eyes on them more. There is an advantage here I really think they are overlooking. They need to stop thinking about their inherent perception of the name Oregon State, and look at the real numbers of what we were doing on TV. We had good numbers. we really did. But if they hem and haw over it, OSU erodes and gets left behind and all we become is the Big 12's self fulfilled prophecy. Put us back in a P4, stabilize OSU, and OSU will bring the eyes. Just stop dicking around over it all ready, it is stupid. There is a huge opportunity for a western region, a huge opportunity for Big 12 to get new eyes from screens they really haven't had before, PDX and Seattle, primarily. There is nothing to loose and with our war chest, OSU/WSU can even sweeten the pot and self fund our selves and take reduced payouts for several seasons. This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about all of this. A healthy OSU football program has a large fan base, with plenty of eyes on TV's. The TV numbers were definitely there last season. We just need a seat at the table to allow us to attract the level of recruit to compete at a P4 level. Less money....big deal! We've been operating with less money as an AD in the Pac and done alright in football. Makes what milk maid did even worse when you think in terms of momentum for our school. I wouldn't go as far as saying we were a shoe in had milk maid re-committed to OSU, and been present all last season.....but who knows? That's not the guy he is, so it doesn't matter anymore. He clearly doesn't care about OSU's future in this crazy college sports landscape. He made that abundantly clear. Lots of dominoes yet to fall. If I'm honest, right now I feel pretty pessimistic. It feels like we are destined to be a full time MW member, and a farm team for P4 schools......I really hope not, but if it happens I'll get used to it, and life goes on. Depends on your definition?! As in most cases OSU was already a farm club... budget wise, draw (TV, stadium size), some minor bowls games ever so often since 2001, some occasional hype due to a big win or matchup, best players being poached. In almost every reasonable definition and aspect of being a big time P4 program, OSU doesn't "fit" and really has no path forward to fit in the current climate and processes. But, that applies to half (or more) of the current P4 teams. Whether those have more media dollars than OSU rolling in they will never be anything be also ran P4 teams. And, if the current trend continues the upper tier teams will become tired of sharing with them and will be ushered out the door. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 8, 2024 12:41:17 GMT -8
This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about all of this. A healthy OSU football program has a large fan base, with plenty of eyes on TV's. The TV numbers were definitely there last season. We just need a seat at the table to allow us to attract the level of recruit to compete at a P4 level. Less money....big deal! We've been operating with less money as an AD in the Pac and done alright in football. Makes what milk maid did even worse when you think in terms of momentum for our school. I wouldn't go as far as saying we were a shoe in had milk maid re-committed to OSU, and been present all last season.....but who knows? That's not the guy he is, so it doesn't matter anymore. He clearly doesn't care about OSU's future in this crazy college sports landscape. He made that abundantly clear. Lots of dominoes yet to fall. If I'm honest, right now I feel pretty pessimistic. It feels like we are destined to be a full time MW member, and a farm team for P4 schools......I really hope not, but if it happens I'll get used to it, and life goes on. Depends on your definition?! As in most cases OSU was already a farm club... budget wise, draw (TV, stadium size), some minor bowls games ever so often since 2001, some occasional hype due to a big win or matchup, best players being poached. In almost every reasonable definition and aspect of being a big time P4 program, OSU doesn't "fit" and really has no path forward to fit in the current climate and processes. But, that applies to half (or more) of the current P4 teams. Whether those have more media dollars than OSU rolling in they will never be anything be also ran P4 teams. And, if the current trend continues the upper tier teams will become tired of sharing with them and will be ushered out the door. In one respect, now that the transfer portal is a big deal that basically all teams are having to deal with... if OSU ends up "joining" the MWC, OSU could have a good shot at becoming THE team in that conference or in the G5 in general that uses the P4 as a farm team for it's transfer portal recruiting. To some extent, Bray did that this year without having a membership in any conference. Win the MWC year in year out and you'll probably get in the playoffs on a fairly regular basis. That could potentially open up recruiting doors with both high school players and highly recruited transfers looking to make a change for PT and success. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 8, 2024 13:22:54 GMT -8
This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about all of this. A healthy OSU football program has a large fan base, with plenty of eyes on TV's. The TV numbers were definitely there last season. We just need a seat at the table to allow us to attract the level of recruit to compete at a P4 level. Less money....big deal! We've been operating with less money as an AD in the Pac and done alright in football. Makes what milk maid did even worse when you think in terms of momentum for our school. I wouldn't go as far as saying we were a shoe in had milk maid re-committed to OSU, and been present all last season.....but who knows? That's not the guy he is, so it doesn't matter anymore. He clearly doesn't care about OSU's future in this crazy college sports landscape. He made that abundantly clear. Lots of dominoes yet to fall. If I'm honest, right now I feel pretty pessimistic. It feels like we are destined to be a full time MW member, and a farm team for P4 schools......I really hope not, but if it happens I'll get used to it, and life goes on. Depends on your definition?! As in most cases OSU was already a farm club... budget wise, draw (TV, stadium size), some minor bowls games ever so often since 2001, some occasional hype due to a big win or matchup, best players being poached. In almost every reasonable definition and aspect of being a big time P4 program, OSU doesn't "fit" and really has no path forward to fit in the current climate and processes. But, that applies to half (or more) of the current P4 teams. Whether those have more media dollars than OSU rolling in they will never be anything be also ran P4 teams. And, if the current trend continues the upper tier teams will become tired of sharing with them and will be ushered out the door. To try and put paint to what you said, Pac-12 teams by winning percentage 2015-2023: 1. Washington
2. Oregon
2. Utah
4. USC
5. Wazzu
6. Stanford
7. UCLA
8. Cal
9. Arizona State
10. Arizona
11. Colorado
12. Oregon State (the 20th-worst winning percentage in FBS football)
List of teams with a worse winning percentage over the last nine seasons: Ball State, Illinois, Bowling Green, New Mexico State, East Carolina, UNLV, New Mexico, Kent, Charlotte, Vandy, Rutgers, Rice, Akron, Louisiana-Monroe, Texas State, UTEP, Connecticut, Kansas, and UMass. 111 FBS teams had a better winning percentage over that time period, including Idaho, which dropped down to FCS. That is almost the whole of the last decade.
How about most recruits' memory? How about last year and the 15 years before? Winning percentage 2008-2023:
1. Oregon
2. Utah
3. USC
4. Stanford
5. Washington
6. UCLA
7. Arizona State
8. Arizona
9. Cal
10. Oregon State
11. Wazzu
12. Colorado
UAB, Army, and Ball State have been more successful over that time period.
And the primary reason why those lists look so bleak?
GAG and the hole GAG put Oregon State into. Oregon State was 9-39 from 2015-2018. That ranks 130 out of 131 FBS teams. Only 6-42 Kansas was worse. Kent, Texas State, and UTEP finished with a better record. 2022 had more wins last year than 2015-2018 combined.
Looking at 2015-2020, Oregon State was 16-51. Oregon State had more wins the past two seasons than in six seasons combined. |
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Post by grayman on Aug 8, 2024 16:41:16 GMT -8
Yeah. 2015-20 was the worst stretch of football at Oregon State in 30 years.
It's even more telling when you look at 1999 to 2013. OSU had 111 wins and went to 11 bowls in those 15 seasons. As noted, Smith had the program back to that level in the past three seasons.
GAG was absolutely the problem but he was an outlier IMO when it comes to the last three decades of Oregon State football.
OSU made really solid to great hires in Erickson, Riley and JS. What the Beavers have in Bray remains to be seen but I have quite a bit of confidence in him.
As far as recruits are concerned, the majority of them probably have little knowledge of Oregon State football success or failure beyond the last year or two.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 8, 2024 17:24:10 GMT -8
This post is pretty much exactly how I feel about all of this. A healthy OSU football program has a large fan base, with plenty of eyes on TV's. The TV numbers were definitely there last season. We just need a seat at the table to allow us to attract the level of recruit to compete at a P4 level. Less money....big deal! We've been operating with less money as an AD in the Pac and done alright in football. Makes what milk maid did even worse when you think in terms of momentum for our school. I wouldn't go as far as saying we were a shoe in had milk maid re-committed to OSU, and been present all last season.....but who knows? That's not the guy he is, so it doesn't matter anymore. He clearly doesn't care about OSU's future in this crazy college sports landscape. He made that abundantly clear. Lots of dominoes yet to fall. If I'm honest, right now I feel pretty pessimistic. It feels like we are destined to be a full time MW member, and a farm team for P4 schools......I really hope not, but if it happens I'll get used to it, and life goes on. Depends on your definition?! As in most cases OSU was already a farm club... budget wise, draw (TV, stadium size), some minor bowls games ever so often since 2001, some occasional hype due to a big win or matchup, best players being poached. In almost every reasonable definition and aspect of being a big time P4 program, OSU doesn't "fit" and really has no path forward to fit in the current climate and processes. But, that applies to half (or more) of the current P4 teams. Whether those have more media dollars than OSU rolling in they will never be anything be also ran P4 teams. And, if the current trend continues the upper tier teams will become tired of sharing with them and will be ushered out the door. We had P4 status though, and were attracting some pretty big time recruits. Things were looking pretty dam good right up until the conference fell apart, and our last HC bailed. If we are destined for the MW, our level of recruit goes down from what we saw over the last few seasons.......and the poaching of guys who develop will be rampant. I see a net negative with the portal for us in the MW. Its presumptuous of OSU fans to just assume we would dominate the MW. It really depends on a lot of variables. If Bray can create a real culture of player development, and we can keep coaches/players around a higher rate than the rest of the MW, then yea......that's what it will take. No guarantees that happens. |
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Post by grayman on Aug 8, 2024 17:35:04 GMT -8
Depends on your definition?! As in most cases OSU was already a farm club... budget wise, draw (TV, stadium size), some minor bowls games ever so often since 2001, some occasional hype due to a big win or matchup, best players being poached. In almost every reasonable definition and aspect of being a big time P4 program, OSU doesn't "fit" and really has no path forward to fit in the current climate and processes. But, that applies to half (or more) of the current P4 teams. Whether those have more media dollars than OSU rolling in they will never be anything be also ran P4 teams. And, if the current trend continues the upper tier teams will become tired of sharing with them and will be ushered out the door. We had P4 status though, and were attracting some pretty big time recruits. Things were looking pretty dam good right up until the conference fell apart, and our last HC bailed. If we are destined for the MW, our level of recruit goes down from what we saw over the last few seasons.......and the poaching of guys who develop will be rampant. I see a net negative with the portal for us in the MW. Its presumptuous of OSU fans to just assume we would dominate the MW. It really depends on a lot of variables. If Bray can create a real culture of player development, and we can keep coaches/players around a higher rate than the rest of the MW, then yea......that's what it will take. No guarantees that happens. Particularly over the long term. The money gap will eventually go away. OSU won't be able to count on Bray, his assistants or any other coach to stick around. Not to mention the players. We've already seen this with women's and men's basketball. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 8, 2024 17:48:13 GMT -8
We saw players who were recruited to play in the Pac-12 leave when we left the Pac-12. In some sports, not all.
There is nothing that indicates players recruited to a WCC/MWC/whatever-level program won't be perfectly happy playing at that level and perfectly happy playing at OSU.
And unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY coach to leave was Smith. Rueck stayed. Tinkle stayed. Canham stayed. Berg stayed. The Chaplins stayed. Quintana stayed. Dalby stayed. Reehoorn stayed. Stokley stayed. Behonic stayed. Pendleton stayed.
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Post by grayman on Aug 8, 2024 18:10:38 GMT -8
Yeah. OSU is not in the MWC at this point.
Of course players recruited to play in the WCC or MWC will have no problem with playing in the WCC or MWC. That's not the point and you know it.
I think there were one or two other coaches in addition to Smith. Canham's program is not in the WCC or MWC. Gymnastics probably will go with an independent schedule. Plus most of them have no financial motivation to leave OSU yet. Lots more cuts coming if OSU joins the MWC. Of course there will be those that will choose to stay because they like living in the area and working at OSU.
The WCC probably is perfectly fine for programs like volleyball, soccer, softball, etc. Not for baseball, wrestling, gymnastics or IMO the basketball programs.
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,512
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Post by ftd on Aug 8, 2024 18:18:21 GMT -8
We saw players who were recruited to play in the Pac-12 leave when we left the Pac-12. In some sports, not all. There is nothing that indicates players recruited to a WCC/MWC/whatever-level program won't be perfectly happy playing at that level and perfectly happy playing at OSU. And unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY coach to leave was Smith. Rueck stayed. Tinkle stayed. Canham stayed. Berg stayed. The Chaplins stayed. Quintana stayed. Dalby stayed. Reehoorn stayed. Stokley stayed. Behonic stayed. Pendleton stayed. Only coach? or only HEAD coach? |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 8, 2024 19:10:10 GMT -8
We saw players who were recruited to play in the Pac-12 leave when we left the Pac-12. In some sports, not all. There is nothing that indicates players recruited to a WCC/MWC/whatever-level program won't be perfectly happy playing at that level and perfectly happy playing at OSU. And unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY coach to leave was Smith. Rueck stayed. Tinkle stayed. Canham stayed. Berg stayed. The Chaplins stayed. Quintana stayed. Dalby stayed. Reehoorn stayed. Stokley stayed. Behonic stayed. Pendleton stayed. The bolded made me laugh out loud. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Aug 9, 2024 4:19:27 GMT -8
We saw players who were recruited to play in the Pac-12 leave when we left the Pac-12. In some sports, not all. There is nothing that indicates players recruited to a WCC/MWC/whatever-level program won't be perfectly happy playing at that level and perfectly happy playing at OSU. And unless I'm mistaken, the ONLY coach to leave was Smith. Rueck stayed. Tinkle stayed. Canham stayed. Berg stayed. The Chaplins stayed. Quintana stayed. Dalby stayed. Reehoorn stayed. Stokley stayed. Behonic stayed. Pendleton stayed. Only coach? or only HEAD coach? Didn’t the Women’s soccer coach leave also? |
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Post by speakthetruth on Aug 9, 2024 5:42:13 GMT -8
If/when osu is a mwc member expect head coach and assistant coach salaries to be substantially decreased if not at the time of joining the league at least when the various contracts are up. Then you can judge how joining the mwc affected the retention of coaches.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 9, 2024 6:48:52 GMT -8
Only coach? or only HEAD coach? Didn’t the Women’s soccer coach leave also? The women's soccer coach did not leave because we changed conferences. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 9, 2024 6:51:56 GMT -8
If/when osu is a mwc member expect head coach and assistant coach salaries to be substantially decreased if not at the time of joining the league at least when the various contracts are up. Then you can judge how joining the mwc affected the retention of coaches. That very well could happen. But until it does, no one can say for a fact that coaches and players will defect en mass. Which is what the poster said. |
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