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Post by beavaristotle on Jul 17, 2024 17:15:41 GMT -8
The secret of the David and Goliath story is that Goliath wins almost all the time
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Post by darthbeavs on Jul 18, 2024 8:31:49 GMT -8
Ohhhh, for ffs. Now I get to look forward to a post by green85 sssssllllllloooooooowwwwwwllllllly explaining to beaver fans why it is perfectly normal, and in fact good, for college football players to be complete fee agents, selling their talent to the highest bidder and that it isn't phil knights fault he is paying millions to college players. In fact he is just doing it out of the charity of his heart to help disadvantage students eveywhere, and green pity's OSU for not being as generous. as an aside, Malcolm Gladwell has a great podcast going this summer about the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Gladwell says there were 3 easy ways to spot an American that would 'turn Nazi' in the runup to the Olympics. How they would resolve their cognitive dissonance with the evil of the Nazi's because they thought the Olympic games were more important. Green85's cognitive dissonance on his ducks f'ing over OSU and the pac 12 follows this pattern. Talking about cognitive dissonance while ignoring the fact that USC and UCLA left the conference an entire year before the others is some disgusting irony. What are you, a Uck fan? lol Nobody is ignoring USC/UCLA, but many are acknowledging that the real damage was done by UO/UW. Fact - The conference would not have collapsed had UO/UW stayed. Not to mention the significant hosing they both gave to their respective in-state partner universities (OSU/WSU) by leaving. It just doesn't compare to what USC/UCLA did by a long shot.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 18, 2024 9:44:55 GMT -8
Talking about cognitive dissonance while ignoring the fact that USC and UCLA left the conference an entire year before the others is some disgusting irony. What are you, a Uck fan? lol Nobody is ignoring USC/UCLA, but many are acknowledging that the real damage was done by UO/UW. Fact - The conference would not have collapsed had UO/UW stayed. Not to mention the significant hosing they both gave to their respective in-state partner universities (OSU/WSU) by leaving. It just doesn't compare to what USC/UCLA did by a long shot. There is a panic amongst the holes/u-dub/FSU/Clemson's of the world. Don't forget that USC (and Larry Scott) was key in blocking Texass and the dirty Sooners coming to the Pac 12......and again in blocking the rest of the big 12 after okie and Texass bailed to the SEC......USC has been pulling the strings forever. They are the evil empire. It's really sad to think that the people making the decisions for the Pac 12 allowed this to happen when it could've been just the opposite. The Pac 12 could have been stronger than ever. Poor leadership, lack of foresite, and maybe intentional tanking (I'm talking to you USC) killed the conference......once USC/UCLA were gone, it was only a matter of time for the rest of the dominoes to fall. And yes, maybe the conference could've stayed together, but the climate that was created made the other schools panic and make moves to do what they thought was securing their future. All that said, FTd
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 18, 2024 13:59:50 GMT -8
What are you, a Uck fan? lol Nobody is ignoring USC/UCLA, but many are acknowledging that the real damage was done by UO/UW. Fact - The conference would not have collapsed had UO/UW stayed. Not to mention the significant hosing they both gave to their respective in-state partner universities (OSU/WSU) by leaving. It just doesn't compare to what USC/UCLA did by a long shot. There is a panic amongst the holes/u-dub/FSU/Clemson's of the world. Don't forget that USC (and Larry Scott) was key in blocking Texass and the dirty Sooners coming to the Pac 12......and again in blocking the rest of the big 12 after okie and Texass bailed to the SEC......USC has been pulling the strings forever. They are the evil empire. It's really sad to think that the people making the decisions for the Pac 12 allowed this to happen when it could've been just the opposite. The Pac 12 could have been stronger than ever. Poor leadership, lack of foresite, and maybe intentional tanking (I'm talking to you USC) killed the conference......once USC/UCLA were gone, it was only a matter of time for the rest of the dominoes to fall. And yes, maybe the conference could've stayed together, but the climate that was created made the other schools panic and make moves to do what they thought was securing their future. All that said, FTd Larry Scott wanted to invite Oklahoma and Texas. USC wanted to invite Oklahoma and Texas. Stanford and Wazzu blocked them, because Oklahoma and Texas wanted a model that paid them based (at least partly) on viewership. And Stanford and Wazzu recognized that they would get killed in that model, because they brought almost nothing to the table. One of those, if you pay people to do nothing situations, they will vote to continue to get paid to do nothing. Larry Scott was gone by the time that Oklahoma and Texas went to the SEC. The Pac-12 (in standard Pac-12 fashion) decided to hire George K. on May 13, 2021, to start work on July 1, 2021. Kliavkoff was apparently working solely on a CFP expansion plan and was caught completely surprised 20 days later (in standard George K. fashion) when the Oklahoma and Texas rumors started. As opposed to showing a modicum of leadership and moving to grab the best pieces of the Big 12, George K., with USC in tow, decided to do squat, which was patently stupid. And none of the other conference members apparently realized that they were vulnerable without UCLA and USC. The conference was still savable, but then George K. listened to Arizona State or Utah about the Pac-12's valuation and turned down an offer that would have saved the conference in favor of magic beans. The Big 12 jumped at the offer to the Pac-12, and the Big 12, having almost been killed off by the Pac-12 but for George K.'s incompetence, started making moves to kill the Pac-12, because they were not stupid. I will also add that Oregon State was in a bad way at the time, because F. King Alexander resigned on April 1, 2021, and the Beavs had an interim President. Murthy would not be hired for more than 14 months after George K. took over.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 18, 2024 14:15:36 GMT -8
There is a panic amongst the holes/u-dub/FSU/Clemson's of the world. Don't forget that USC (and Larry Scott) was key in blocking Texass and the dirty Sooners coming to the Pac 12......and again in blocking the rest of the big 12 after okie and Texass bailed to the SEC......USC has been pulling the strings forever. They are the evil empire. It's really sad to think that the people making the decisions for the Pac 12 allowed this to happen when it could've been just the opposite. The Pac 12 could have been stronger than ever. Poor leadership, lack of foresite, and maybe intentional tanking (I'm talking to you USC) killed the conference......once USC/UCLA were gone, it was only a matter of time for the rest of the dominoes to fall. And yes, maybe the conference could've stayed together, but the climate that was created made the other schools panic and make moves to do what they thought was securing their future. All that said, FTd As opposed to showing a modicum of leadership and moving to grab the best pieces of the Big 12, George K., with USC in tow, decided to do squat, which was patently stupid. USC in tow? It is been documented that George K tried to jump right into conference expansion, literally in his first 30-45 days on the job, and USC killed it in the very first conference call in minutes…. Now USC’s move was patently stupid as far as what was best for the conference goes, though George K and others in the conference were dumb not to challenge it.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 18, 2024 14:29:44 GMT -8
As opposed to showing a modicum of leadership and moving to grab the best pieces of the Big 12, George K., with USC in tow, decided to do squat, which was patently stupid. USC in tow? It is been documented that George K tried to jump right into conference expansion, literally in his first 30-45 days on the job, and USC killed it in the very first conference call in minutes…. Now USC’s move was patently stupid as far as what was best for the conference goes, though George K and others in the conference were dumb not to challenge it. I have heard that USC was opposed. But I have not heard that George K. was pushing for it at all. I also have not heard that any of the other schools were pushing for it either. USC is just one school. If George K. or the other schools had pushed, it would have been done. George K. did not know what the hell he was doing. George K. sold the Aces to Mark Davis for $2 million. The Storm sold for $151 million two years later. I refuse to believe that George K. did anything good ever. Highly improbable, bordering on impossible. The Pac-12 paid George K. $8 million to do absolutely nothing. Also, Oregon was head of the firing and hiring Committees. Oregon recommended that Scott be fired and then recommended that George K. be hired. And then the Oregon President bolted for Northwestern.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 18, 2024 18:05:10 GMT -8
There is a panic amongst the holes/u-dub/FSU/Clemson's of the world. Don't forget that USC (and Larry Scott) was key in blocking Texass and the dirty Sooners coming to the Pac 12......and again in blocking the rest of the big 12 after okie and Texass bailed to the SEC......USC has been pulling the strings forever. They are the evil empire. It's really sad to think that the people making the decisions for the Pac 12 allowed this to happen when it could've been just the opposite. The Pac 12 could have been stronger than ever. Poor leadership, lack of foresite, and maybe intentional tanking (I'm talking to you USC) killed the conference......once USC/UCLA were gone, it was only a matter of time for the rest of the dominoes to fall. And yes, maybe the conference could've stayed together, but the climate that was created made the other schools panic and make moves to do what they thought was securing their future. All that said, FTd Larry Scott wanted to invite Oklahoma and Texas. USC wanted to invite Oklahoma and Texas. Stanford and Wazzu blocked them, because Oklahoma and Texas wanted a model that paid them based (at least partly) on viewership. And Stanford and Wazzu recognized that they would get killed in that model, because they brought almost nothing to the table. One of those, if you pay people to do nothing situations, they will vote to continue to get paid to do nothing. Larry Scott was gone by the time that Oklahoma and Texas went to the SEC. The Pac-12 (in standard Pac-12 fashion) decided to hire George K. on May 13, 2021, to start work on July 1, 2021. Kliavkoff was apparently working solely on a CFP expansion plan and was caught completely surprised 20 days later (in standard George K. fashion) when the Oklahoma and Texas rumors started. As opposed to showing a modicum of leadership and moving to grab the best pieces of the Big 12, George K., with USC in tow, decided to do squat, which was patently stupid. And none of the other conference members apparently realized that they were vulnerable without UCLA and USC. The conference was still savable, but then George K. listened to Arizona State or Utah about the Pac-12's valuation and turned down an offer that would have saved the conference in favor of magic beans. The Big 12 jumped at the offer to the Pac-12, and the Big 12, having almost been killed off by the Pac-12 but for George K.'s incompetence, started making moves to kill the Pac-12, because they were not stupid. I will also add that Oregon State was in a bad way at the time, because F. King Alexander resigned on April 1, 2021, and the Beavs had an interim President. Murthy would not be hired for more than 14 months after George K. took over. "After careful review we have determined that it is in the best interests of our member institutions, student-athletes and fans to remain a 12-team conference," Scott said in a statement. "While we have great respect for all of the institutions that have contacted us, and certain expansion proposals were financially attractive, we have a strong conference structure and culture of equality that we are committed to preserve." Scott did initially want the Big 12 schools, including okie st and Tex tech. He should've pushed harder. But I guess at the time no one knew the issues to come with the Pac 12 network. And I get the issue of wanting continued equal revenue sharing......the reality is, all of us have nots would be in a better position had we taken on more schools and accepted less revenue.......that's where the lack of foresite comes in. But, the inflated expectations of the of P12 Network that Larry never delivered on....ugh.....ok I'm done re-hashing this s%#t. It's depressing
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 18, 2024 19:33:42 GMT -8
USC in tow? It is been documented that George K tried to jump right into conference expansion, literally in his first 30-45 days on the job, and USC killed it in the very first conference call in minutes…. Now USC’s move was patently stupid as far as what was best for the conference goes, though George K and others in the conference were dumb not to challenge it. I have heard that USC was opposed. But I have not heard that George K. was pushing for it at all. I also have not heard that any of the other schools were pushing for it either. USC is just one school. If George K. or the other schools had pushed, it would have been done. George K. did not know what the hell he was doing. George K. sold the Aces to Mark Davis for $2 million. The Storm sold for $151 million two years later. I refuse to believe that George K. did anything good ever. Highly improbable, bordering on impossible. The Pac-12 paid George K. $8 million to do absolutely nothing. Also, Oregon was head of the firing and hiring Committees. Oregon recommended that Scott be fired and then recommended that George K. be hired. And then the Oregon President bolted for Northwestern. There were several prominent outlets that wrote about USC torpedoing Pac 12 expansion. www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-07-29/usc-president-carol-folt-pac-12-expansionGeorge K started working for the Pac 12 on July 1st of 2021. He was publicly talking about expanding the league by July 23rd. www.mercurynews.com/2021/07/23/new-pac-12-commissioner-george-kliavkoff-talks-realignment-if-the-big-12-folds-cfp-expansion-media-strategy-in-wide-ranging-interview/ He set up a panel of 3 university Presidents and 3 ADs to look into it. Carol Folt was on that panel and shut expansion down 15 minutes into their first meeting according to the LA Times article linked earlier. She shot it down before GK could get the process going. Doesn't mean he didn't try.
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Post by ee1990 on Jul 18, 2024 20:48:00 GMT -8
Talking about cognitive dissonance while ignoring the fact that USC and UCLA left the conference an entire year before the others is some disgusting irony. What are you, a Uck fan? lol Nobody is ignoring USC/UCLA, but many are acknowledging that the real damage was done by UO/UW. Fact - The conference would not have collapsed had UO/UW stayed. Not to mention the significant hosing they both gave to their respective in-state partner universities (OSU/WSU) by leaving. It just doesn't compare to what USC/UCLA did by a long shot. That's total bulls%#t. "the conference" would have stayed together at $20,000,000 a year while Northwestern and Rutgers and Indiana, etc, etc, etc, earned triple that. USC did this, period. The rest just made sound decisions.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 18, 2024 20:57:42 GMT -8
I've always read that USC, and specifically Folt,opposed all the proposed expansion. And since they had a big voice in the meetings, they typically get what they want.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 18, 2024 21:26:21 GMT -8
I've always read that USC, and specifically Folt,opposed all the proposed expansion. And since they had a big voice in the meetings, they typically get what they want. I have heard that Folt was against it, but she was just one voice. There were seven people there. And George K. is supposed to lead the six of them. What the hell were George K. and the other five doing? I mean they ignored USC pretty much every major vote before that. How in the hell did Carol freaking Folt bowl over the other six in the most important meeting in the past decade?
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 19, 2024 8:15:03 GMT -8
I've always read that USC, and specifically Folt,opposed all the proposed expansion. And since they had a big voice in the meetings, they typically get what they want. I have heard that Folt was against it, but she was just one voice. There were seven people there. And George K. is supposed to lead the six of them. What the hell were George K. and the other five doing? I mean they ignored USC pretty much every major vote before that. How in the hell did Carol freaking Folt bowl over the other six in the most important meeting in the past decade? I don't know all the details, other than USC has wanted to kill profit sharing forever. And the leadership of the conference allowed them to kill the conference. There was complacency, and a false sense of security in 2011. The Pac 12 network was getting ready to be rolled out. Lots of optimism for big profit. I just think the timing of all of it was super unfortunate. Larry Scott really miscalculated, and proved to be a poor leader of the conference......USC ultimately got what they wanted. Although, I'm not sure they improved upon travel itineraries.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 19, 2024 9:13:04 GMT -8
I have heard that Folt was against it, but she was just one voice. There were seven people there. And George K. is supposed to lead the six of them. What the hell were George K. and the other five doing? I mean they ignored USC pretty much every major vote before that. How in the hell did Carol freaking Folt bowl over the other six in the most important meeting in the past decade? I don't know all the details, other than USC has wanted to kill profit sharing forever. And the leadership of the conference allowed them to kill the conference. There was complacency, and a false sense of security in 2011. The Pac 12 network was getting ready to be rolled out. Lots of optimism for big profit. I just think the timing of all of it was super unfortunate. Larry Scott really miscalculated, and proved to be a poor leader of the conference......USC ultimately got what they wanted. Although, I'm not sure they improved upon travel itineraries. Lots of people miscalculated. The Big East basically hemorrhaged apart, because they were trying to set up what the Pac-12 did, but it proved too costly and time-consuming. The Pac-12 Network was earned the conference $117 million just last year alone. The problem was overhead. The conference still spent $77 million on the Network. It should have been more. The number should have been around $158 million, if the Pac-12 Network had been able to get on DIRECTV, but they did not. Still you are only looking at what $3.4 million extra per year. That amount of money would have been nice, but it was certainly not fatal. (Still, it should have been fixed, and Scott should be faulted for not fixing the Pac-12 Network issue, especially after AT&T backed out at the end of the 2018 football season. Something should have immediately been done to fix the issue but was not.) Nothing was fatal, though, until Scott was chased off and George K. was hired. I have to imagine that everyone, upon meeting him, realized that they were dealing with a Grade A moron. UCLA and USC immediately made plans to leave rather than deal with the guy. And the Big Ten knew that they were dealing with an absentee landlord, while they secretly invited UCLA and USC away, and George K. was caught completely flatfooted and then mishandled what followed.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 19, 2024 9:34:24 GMT -8
I don't know all the details, other than USC has wanted to kill profit sharing forever. And the leadership of the conference allowed them to kill the conference. There was complacency, and a false sense of security in 2011. The Pac 12 network was getting ready to be rolled out. Lots of optimism for big profit. I just think the timing of all of it was super unfortunate. Larry Scott really miscalculated, and proved to be a poor leader of the conference......USC ultimately got what they wanted. Although, I'm not sure they improved upon travel itineraries. Lots of people miscalculated. The Big East basically hemorrhaged apart, because they were trying to set up what the Pac-12 did, but it proved too costly and time-consuming. The Pac-12 Network was earned the conference $117 million just last year alone. The problem was overhead. The conference still spent $77 million on the Network. It should have been more. The number should have been around $158 million, if the Pac-12 Network had been able to get on DIRECTV, but they did not. Still you are only looking at what $3.4 million extra per year. That amount of money would have been nice, but it was certainly not fatal. (Still, it should have been fixed, and Scott should be faulted for not fixing the Pac-12 Network issue, especially after AT&T backed out at the end of the 2018 football season. Something should have immediately been done to fix the issue but was not.) Nothing was fatal, though, until Scott was chased off and George K. was hired. I have to imagine that everyone, upon meeting him, realized that they were dealing with a Grade A moron. UCLA and USC immediately made plans to leave rather than deal with the guy. And the Big Ten knew that they were dealing with an absentee landlord, while they secretly invited UCLA and USC away, and George K. was caught completely flatfooted and then mishandled what followed. I'm not sure I believe George K was the reason it ultimately fell apart. I think the ship had sailed way before that.
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Post by beaver55to7 on Jul 19, 2024 13:05:59 GMT -8
Lots of people miscalculated. The Big East basically hemorrhaged apart, because they were trying to set up what the Pac-12 did, but it proved too costly and time-consuming. The Pac-12 Network was earned the conference $117 million just last year alone. The problem was overhead. The conference still spent $77 million on the Network. It should have been more. The number should have been around $158 million, if the Pac-12 Network had been able to get on DIRECTV, but they did not. Still you are only looking at what $3.4 million extra per year. That amount of money would have been nice, but it was certainly not fatal. (Still, it should have been fixed, and Scott should be faulted for not fixing the Pac-12 Network issue, especially after AT&T backed out at the end of the 2018 football season. Something should have immediately been done to fix the issue but was not.) Nothing was fatal, though, until Scott was chased off and George K. was hired. I have to imagine that everyone, upon meeting him, realized that they were dealing with a Grade A moron. UCLA and USC immediately made plans to leave rather than deal with the guy. And the Big Ten knew that they were dealing with an absentee landlord, while they secretly invited UCLA and USC away, and George K. was caught completely flatfooted and then mishandled what followed. I'm not sure I believe George K was the reason it ultimately fell apart. I think the ship had sailed way before that. Yes, geopgraphy, time zones and centers of population were a much bigger problem then kliajerkoff. In star wars terms, the b1g and SEC have the highground of time zones and population centers and this was always going to eventually doom the pac12.
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