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Post by ag87 on Feb 21, 2024 6:24:41 GMT -8
Interesting, due to the location and size of the university, many count UNLV as one of the more valuable programs. Winning and losing is only a piece of the pie. And, if the past, especially 35 seasons of football mattered the MWC wouldn't want OSU either. BUT, it doesn't. It's about who is watching now and how your programs are supported now. If we talked about 25 years instead of 35 years, we have been good except for the anderpants debacle. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 21, 2024 15:03:02 GMT -8
And, if the past, especially 35 seasons of football mattered the MWC wouldn't want OSU either. BUT, it doesn't. It's about who is watching now and how your programs are supported now. If we talked about 25 years instead of 35 years, we have been good except for the anderpants debacle. Winningest Mountain West teams last 25 years: 1. Boise State 2. Fresno State 3. Air Force 4. San Diego State 5. Hawai'i 6. Nevada 7. Colorado State 8. Utah State 9. Wyoming 10. San Jose State 11. New Mexico 12. UNLV Oregon State has a winning percentage between San Diego State and Hawai'i, closer to San Diego State than Hawai'i. Wazzu has a winning percentage between Nevada and Colorado State, closer to Nevada than Colorado State. It should be noted that the only team between Nevada and Wazzu for winning percentage over the past 25 years is Cal. The team between Oregon State and San Diego State, just for reference is Arkansas. |
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Post by aggielarry on Feb 22, 2024 15:47:37 GMT -8
If we talked about 25 years instead of 35 years, we have been good except for the anderpants debacle. Winningest Mountain West teams last 25 years: 1. Boise State 2. Fresno State 3. Air Force 4. San Diego State 5. Hawai'i 6. Nevada 7. Colorado State 8. Utah State 9. Wyoming 10. San Jose State 11. New Mexico 12. UNLV Oregon State has a winning percentage between San Diego State and Hawai'i, closer to San Diego State than Hawai'i. Wazzu has a winning percentage between Nevada and Colorado State, closer to Nevada than Colorado State. It should be noted that the only team between Nevada and Wazzu for winning percentage over the past 25 years is Cal. The team between Oregon State and San Diego State, just for reference is Arkansas. This is not apples to apples. Most of those teams have been in the MWC less than 15 years. If you look at the last 11 years, since the MW has been in its current stable configuration, the positions change dramatically. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 23, 2024 9:22:00 GMT -8
Winningest Mountain West teams last 25 years: 1. Boise State 2. Fresno State 3. Air Force 4. San Diego State 5. Hawai'i 6. Nevada 7. Colorado State 8. Utah State 9. Wyoming 10. San Jose State 11. New Mexico 12. UNLV Oregon State has a winning percentage between San Diego State and Hawai'i, closer to San Diego State than Hawai'i. Wazzu has a winning percentage between Nevada and Colorado State, closer to Nevada than Colorado State. It should be noted that the only team between Nevada and Wazzu for winning percentage over the past 25 years is Cal. The team between Oregon State and San Diego State, just for reference is Arkansas. This is not apples to apples. Most of those teams have been in the MWC less than 15 years. If you look at the last 11 years, since the MW has been in its current stable configuration, the positions change dramatically. My wife and I lived in northern NV, and had season tix for Nevada football during Chris Ault's last stent as HC. That was the WAC days mostly.......good times. I hate to see the program in the state it is. Used to whoop up on UNLV, and compete at a high level back then. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 23, 2024 17:04:32 GMT -8
Winningest Mountain West teams last 25 years: 1. Boise State 2. Fresno State 3. Air Force 4. San Diego State 5. Hawai'i 6. Nevada 7. Colorado State 8. Utah State 9. Wyoming 10. San Jose State 11. New Mexico 12. UNLV Oregon State has a winning percentage between San Diego State and Hawai'i, closer to San Diego State than Hawai'i. Wazzu has a winning percentage between Nevada and Colorado State, closer to Nevada than Colorado State. It should be noted that the only team between Nevada and Wazzu for winning percentage over the past 25 years is Cal. The team between Oregon State and San Diego State, just for reference is Arkansas. This is not apples to apples. Most of those teams have been in the MWC less than 15 years. If you look at the last 11 years, since the MW has been in its current stable configuration, the positions change dramatically. You are correct, but it does encapsulate the entire lifetime of the Mountain West, and it also highlights how much better Oregon State was in the first 14 of the last 25 years than in the most recent 11 years. I know Utah State has had a great, in comparison, last 11 years rather than in the 14 years before. 11 years is not a long enough snapshot and no smaller period of time really makes sense to try and get a big picture view of the 14 most relevant teams. |
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Post by aggielarry on Feb 27, 2024 15:35:05 GMT -8
This is not apples to apples. Most of those teams have been in the MWC less than 15 years. If you look at the last 11 years, since the MW has been in its current stable configuration, the positions change dramatically. You are correct, but it does encapsulate the entire lifetime of the Mountain West, and it also highlights how much better Oregon State was in the first 14 of the last 25 years than in the most recent 11 years. I know Utah State has had a great, in comparison, last 11 years rather than in the 14 years before. 11 years is not a long enough snapshot and no smaller period of time really makes sense to try and get a big picture view of the 14 most relevant teams. I would disagree. Eleven years is almost three full non-overlapping classes of recruits. For most places, it's three, or even four head coaches, and probably two athletic directors. For college athletics, for schools not named Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, or Georgia, twenty-five years is ancient history. As for encapsulating the entire lifetime of the Mountain West, and to put it into real, immediate terms, that's like looking at the PAC-14 two years from now, and saying it is the same conference as the PAC-10 twenty years ago. Totally irrelevant. One more thought, in a slight tangent. You guys keep looking for schools to pick off to rebuild the PAC. The thinking being, maybe if you take the top four of the MWC and the top four of the AAC you can rebuild a P4 level conference. Ideally, a candidate for a P4 would have a long history of success in football and basketball, great facilities, strong academics, be located in a top media market, and have a strong share of that market. Guess what? There aren't any schools like that left. Any school that fit that profile has already been scavenged. And I hate to break the news to you, but that includes you. What you can hope for is the strongest G6 conference. The music stopped playing, and none of us have chairs. Welcome to the party, pal! |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 27, 2024 20:36:33 GMT -8
You are correct, but it does encapsulate the entire lifetime of the Mountain West, and it also highlights how much better Oregon State was in the first 14 of the last 25 years than in the most recent 11 years. I know Utah State has had a great, in comparison, last 11 years rather than in the 14 years before. 11 years is not a long enough snapshot and no smaller period of time really makes sense to try and get a big picture view of the 14 most relevant teams. I would disagree. Eleven years is almost three full non-overlapping classes of recruits. For most places, it's three, or even four head coaches, and probably two athletic directors. For college athletics, for schools not named Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, or Georgia, twenty-five years is ancient history. As for encapsulating the entire lifetime of the Mountain West, and to put it into real, immediate terms, that's like looking at the PAC-14 two years from now, and saying it is the same conference as the PAC-10 twenty years ago. Totally irrelevant. One more thought, in a slight tangent. You guys keep looking for schools to pick off to rebuild the PAC. The thinking being, maybe if you take the top four of the MWC and the top four of the AAC you can rebuild a P4 level conference. Ideally, a candidate for a P4 would have a long history of success in football and basketball, great facilities, strong academics, be located in a top media market, and have a strong share of that market. Guess what? There aren't any schools like that left. Any school that fit that profile has already been scavenged. And I hate to break the news to you, but that includes you. What you can hope for is the strongest G6 conference. The music stopped playing, and none of us have chairs. Welcome to the party, pal!  You gotta use the gif. The issue with creating the fifth-best conference as I see it is that you want as few teams as possible to make it work. That is probably 10 teams. So, why is Utah State not in the bottom four of the Mountain West? |
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Post by aggielarry on Feb 28, 2024 17:58:24 GMT -8
I would disagree. Eleven years is almost three full non-overlapping classes of recruits. For most places, it's three, or even four head coaches, and probably two athletic directors. For college athletics, for schools not named Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, or Georgia, twenty-five years is ancient history. As for encapsulating the entire lifetime of the Mountain West, and to put it into real, immediate terms, that's like looking at the PAC-14 two years from now, and saying it is the same conference as the PAC-10 twenty years ago. Totally irrelevant. One more thought, in a slight tangent. You guys keep looking for schools to pick off to rebuild the PAC. The thinking being, maybe if you take the top four of the MWC and the top four of the AAC you can rebuild a P4 level conference. Ideally, a candidate for a P4 would have a long history of success in football and basketball, great facilities, strong academics, be located in a top media market, and have a strong share of that market. Guess what? There aren't any schools like that left. Any school that fit that profile has already been scavenged. And I hate to break the news to you, but that includes you. What you can hope for is the strongest G6 conference. The music stopped playing, and none of us have chairs. Welcome to the party, pal! You gotta use the gif. The issue with creating the fifth-best conference as I see it is that you want as few teams as possible to make it work. That is probably 10 teams. So, why is Utah State not in the bottom four of the Mountain West? Well, since you ask... Average final standing in the conference in football since joining: 4.2, with the best (#1) conference record three years, and one conference championship (the year we beat OSU in the LA Bowl...). Average final standing in the conference in men's basketball since joining: 4.8, with two conference tournament championships. Carnegie R-1 university. FY 2022 (last available) research budget $390.7 million. About the only place you can ding us is media market. We're part of the Salt Lake media market, which we share with U of U and BYU. And yes, it will be almost impossible to break out of third place. Again, no school in the MWC checks all the boxes to be a P4 candidate. If they did, they'd already be there. UNLV? Ooooh! Great market! Except no one in Vegas cares about UNLV, and they have been terrible in football for forever, and mediocre in basketball for almost as long. San Diego State? Again, great market, and they have a better market share than UNLV, but still not great. Boise? Not great academics. They dominate their market, but it's small. Fresno? Objectively, they haven't been as good as everyone seems to think over the last 11 years. So, a bunch of flawed candidates. Of course, all this is moot, because the MWC has been very careful to make it painfully expensive to take less than all of us. I don't worry about Utah State, because we're in a stable conference. Our conference isn't getting poached, especially by the PAC-2, with no media deal and an, at best, uncertain future. So, take us all, or have a nice life. Send us a postcard... |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 28, 2024 18:08:48 GMT -8
You gotta use the gif. The issue with creating the fifth-best conference as I see it is that you want as few teams as possible to make it work. That is probably 10 teams. So, why is Utah State not in the bottom four of the Mountain West? Well, since you ask... Average final standing in the conference in football since joining: 4.2, with the best (#1) conference record three years, and one conference championship (the year we beat OSU in the LA Bowl...). Average final standing in the conference in men's basketball since joining: 4.8, with two conference tournament championships. Carnegie R-1 university. FY 2022 (last available) research budget $390.7 million. About the only place you can ding us is media market. We're part of the Salt Lake media market, which we share with U of U and BYU. And yes, it will be almost impossible to break out of third place. Again, no school in the MWC checks all the boxes to be a P4 candidate. If they did, they'd already be there. UNLV? Ooooh! Great market! Except no one in Vegas cares about UNLV, and they have been terrible in football for forever, and mediocre in basketball for almost as long. San Diego State? Again, great market, and they have a better market share than UNLV, but still not great. Boise? Not great academics. They dominate their market, but it's small. Fresno? Objectively, they haven't been as good as everyone seems to think over the last 11 years. So, a bunch of flawed candidates. Of course, all this is moot, because the MWC has been very careful to make it painfully expensive to take less than all of us. I don't worry about Utah State, because we're in a stable conference. Our conference isn't getting poached, especially by the PAC-2, with no media deal and an, at best, uncertain future. So, take us all, or have a nice life. Send us a postcard... Your conference is isnt getting poached......yet. Nothing is impossible except for Utah St. climbing out of 3rd place in the SLC media market. I'm just kinda messin with ya. I appreciate how steadfast the MW leadership has been.......I just don't think anything is ever off the table in this crazy landscape. |
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Post by irimi on Feb 28, 2024 18:34:39 GMT -8
Well, since you ask... Average final standing in the conference in football since joining: 4.2, with the best (#1) conference record three years, and one conference championship (the year we beat OSU in the LA Bowl...). Average final standing in the conference in men's basketball since joining: 4.8, with two conference tournament championships. Carnegie R-1 university. FY 2022 (last available) research budget $390.7 million. About the only place you can ding us is media market. We're part of the Salt Lake media market, which we share with U of U and BYU. And yes, it will be almost impossible to break out of third place. Again, no school in the MWC checks all the boxes to be a P4 candidate. If they did, they'd already be there. UNLV? Ooooh! Great market! Except no one in Vegas cares about UNLV, and they have been terrible in football for forever, and mediocre in basketball for almost as long. San Diego State? Again, great market, and they have a better market share than UNLV, but still not great. Boise? Not great academics. They dominate their market, but it's small. Fresno? Objectively, they haven't been as good as everyone seems to think over the last 11 years. So, a bunch of flawed candidates. Of course, all this is moot, because the MWC has been very careful to make it painfully expensive to take less than all of us. I don't worry about Utah State, because we're in a stable conference. Our conference isn't getting poached, especially by the PAC-2, with no media deal and an, at best, uncertain future. So, take us all, or have a nice life. Send us a postcard... Your conference is isnt getting poached......yet. Nothing is impossible except for Utah St. climbing out of 3rd place in the SLC media market. I'm just kinda messin with ya. I appreciate how steadfast the MW leadership has been.......I just don't think anything is ever off the table in this crazy landscape. The leadership is commendable, particularly in light of how crappy the leadership has been at some of these P5 schools. But I hope OSU and WSU don't let the leadership of the MWC blindside them into something regrettable. Regardless what everyone is saying, I still like believing that OSU and WSU matter and are Power 5 schools. |
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Post by aggielarry on Feb 28, 2024 23:41:57 GMT -8
Your conference is isnt getting poached......yet. Nothing is impossible except for Utah St. climbing out of 3rd place in the SLC media market. I'm just kinda messin with ya. I appreciate how steadfast the MW leadership has been.......I just don't think anything is ever off the table in this crazy landscape. The leadership is commendable, particularly in light of how crappy the leadership has been at some of these P5 schools. But I hope OSU and WSU don't let the leadership of the MWC blindside them into something regrettable. Regardless what everyone is saying, I still like believing that OSU and WSU matter and are Power 5 schools. Regrettable is already here. There is a hole in the bottom of your lifeboat. Sometime in the next two years, the fishing trawler SS MWC is going to steam up and throw you a lifeline. I'd suggest taking it, because the Carnival Cruise Ship SS Big 12 isn't heading this way, ever. But hey, your choice. Our boat's ugly and stinks, but it's seaworthy... |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 29, 2024 0:32:58 GMT -8
The leadership is commendable, particularly in light of how crappy the leadership has been at some of these P5 schools. But I hope OSU and WSU don't let the leadership of the MWC blindside them into something regrettable. Regardless what everyone is saying, I still like believing that OSU and WSU matter and are Power 5 schools. Regrettable is already here. There is a hole in the bottom of your lifeboat. Sometime in the next two years, the fishing trawler SS MWC is going to steam up and throw you a lifeline. I'd suggest taking it, because the Carnival Cruise Ship SS Big 12 isn't heading this way, ever. But hey, your choice. Our boat's ugly and stinks, but it's seaworthy... After all that had happened, that will happen I'm not sure there will be P4 teams. A new CFP set up might begin a push for lower tier P4, and G5 schools to unite, secede from the "union". The majority of the B10, SEC, B12, ACC will never see the CFP. If the auto bids also include payouts that enrich those 12 teams and diminish the rest if the conference there could be significant backlash. Plus, although they want to think they do, there are other votes that count other than the SEC & B10. Another factor, maybe the NCAA wants to share in the money. Maybe a disgruntled group might like the first NCAA D1 football championships/playoffs. Their own organization and TV revenues to add to the March Madness?? Sh%t is going to hit the fan. How much and how fast the fan is going will determine the "spread". |
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Post by ag87 on Feb 29, 2024 4:48:17 GMT -8
So much needs to happen. I think the goal remains to be in the premier Pacific and Mountain time zone conference.
If the ACC implodes, that creates a lot of opportunity. California and Stanford should be in the Pacific Conference
When the merger occurs (it's going to be some sort of merger), there needs to be a requirement of a certain amount of seating on each side of the field (looking at you SJSU). There needs to be a requirement of a minimum football budget (that's for you New Mexico and Nevada, maybe Wyoming). Some effort has to happen to make CUSA attractive to the Hawaii football program. A similar outreach needs to happen in the American Conference regarding the Air Force Academy. Football is ok there but everything else and women's programs don't fit.
Utah and the Arizona's should not be in the Texas & East Coast Conference. Do you try to "organically" create disenchantment within their booster groups?
How do you drive a wedge between USC and UCLA?
You try to make the Great Lakes Conference as difficult as possible for the Northwest members.
You absolutely oppose more than a conference champion getting an automatic berth in a playoff. There is strength in numbers. If 80 or so current D1 members talk about a "university driven football playoff" as opposed to an "NFL light" model, the professional teams will slow way down.
How do you start preliminary negotiations with TV networks, Apple, etc with an "idea?"
We live in interesting times. I will continue to enjoy and support Oregon State athletics.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 29, 2024 7:21:37 GMT -8
"We live in interesting times. I will continue to enjoy and support Oregon State athletics."
This, and hating the ducks, are the only constants that I can be sure of, no matter what happens.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 29, 2024 10:18:37 GMT -8
So much needs to happen. I think the goal remains to be in the premier Pacific and Mountain time zone conference. If the ACC implodes, that creates a lot of opportunity. California and Stanford should be in the Pacific Conference When the merger occurs (it's going to be some sort of merger), there needs to be a requirement of a certain amount of seating on each side of the field (looking at you SJSU). There needs to be a requirement of a minimum football budget (that's for you New Mexico and Nevada, maybe Wyoming). Some effort has to happen to make CUSA attractive to the Hawaii football program. A similar outreach needs to happen in the American Conference regarding the Air Force Academy. Football is ok there but everything else and women's programs don't fit. Utah and the Arizona's should not be in the Texas & East Coast Conference. Do you try to "organically" create disenchantment within their booster groups? How do you drive a wedge between USC and UCLA? You try to make the Great Lakes Conference as difficult as possible for the Northwest members. You absolutely oppose more than a conference champion getting an automatic berth in a playoff. There is strength in numbers. If 80 or so current D1 members talk about a "university driven football playoff" as opposed to an "NFL light" model, the professional teams will slow way down. How do you start preliminary negotiations with TV networks, Apple, etc with an "idea?" We live in interesting times. I will continue to enjoy and support Oregon State athletics. I wouldn't worry about Wyoming's commitment to football. Its facilities are as good as ours, if not better. It is rebuilding the other half of its stadium, to mirror the half that was rebuilt about 10 years ago. UNM, SJSU and UNLV are the MWC's football question marks, money- and investment-wise. I suspect we will see UNLV's 2023 season was a complete outlier and it will revert to its historical norm this season. |
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