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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 29, 2023 5:59:52 GMT -8
Just got done watching the condensed version of game on Pac 12. Dozed off a bit in second half last night here in ET, so held comments last night until I could rewatch.
Only first conference game, so I don’t want to speak in absolutes, but looks like this team may be what I thought it was. I think it is a better team than last year’s, but just has no margin for error in conference. Against the lesser talented noncon teams, the Beavs could get by even with lulls in their game. Those days appear to be over.
Beavers played well in first half, but overall talent (and depth) won out in the end. I thought Beavers defended Bona pretty well. He only had 13 and 8 with 5 TOs. It was his defense (3 blocks and 3 steals) and offensive rebounding (4) that killed the Beavers. They held UCLA’s leading scorer to 7 and Andrews to 4 of 14 shooting. But two bench players who hadn’t been scoring much at all came up big for them. In all UCLA got 62 minutes off bench to 34 for Beavers. Second half it showed as UCLA was consistently quicker to the ball.
Before game I said I was going to be looking at 4 things to get better read on what this team may be. Outcomes were a bit of a mixed bag.
— Rataj had an OK game — 6 rebounds and 2 steals — but don’t think Beavers will win many games going forward with him taking only 3 shots. Need offense from him.
— Our centers took a step backwards and certainly weren’t a strength in this game. Some one mentioned in this thread that KC would be a beast if he was in better condition. He certainly still needs to get in better shape, but I’m beginning to doubt he has much beast in him at all. He played 28 minutes and did not take a shot (though he did make basically the first pass in that around the horn passing that led to Wright’s 3). That just can’t happen. At some point he has to show some beast and demand the ball — and not sure he has that in him.
— i had a feeling WT would greatly cut (or in the case of tonight completely eliminate) Lake’s time on the floor. I get it, Pope and Akanno are key offensive clogs, WT trusts Wright more than Lake (not saying he shouldn’t) and Lake’s not the biggest kid. But I’d still like to see Lake get 5-6 minutes, and a couple fewer minutes for starting backcourt might help them.
— Bilodeau had what seemed to me a very quiet double-double. Still fouling too much and not hitting his 3s, but I’ll take that game every night.
One thing that needs to be corrected from last night going forward is better shot selection by Pope on 3s. He attempted 7, which is fine; but at least 4 of those were ill-advised, bad shots (he went 1-7). I get it. He’s a key part of our offense and he knows he needs to score, but he needs to have better shot selection. I’d rather see Rataj get more than 3 shots and KC at least one than see Pope take contested 3s or ones when he’s not set. Those kind of 3s are just turnovers essentially.
Let’s see if Beavers can get a split here and keep USC winless in conference. Certainly not out of the question. Just need to cut done on bad stretches of play.
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Post by takethatbeav on Dec 29, 2023 7:01:27 GMT -8
There was a lot of buzz about Bona last year and even this year.
By all accounts, when he does decide to go to the NBA, he’s a clear first rounder….. which is just crazy to me how a clear first rounder gets that classification by what people think they will do in the future and not what they’re actually doing now (and last year) there were people that said he was a fringe lottery pick last year after averaging something like seven points, and 22 minutes a game.
I was not able to watch the game last night, but I was following on the REAL app…… I was told that in the second second half they couldn’t really miss anything and almost every time they posted up one of our secondary Bigs they scored a basket (or points) directly or indirectly. Things you can’t really see in a box score
I still think there is an 8 conference win team in this group, they just need to match up strength v strength. I really think Ndong and Marrs are gonna have to contribute on defense at some point for this team to be successful down the stretch. But since neither of them can score like Rataj and Tyler it’s gonna be tough for them to find minutes.
Seems we had a good gameplan going in…….UCLA made counter punches in the second half and there was no answers for the counter punch
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Post by beaverology on Dec 29, 2023 7:36:33 GMT -8
So I’m curious. Had you even seen Mara play prior to tonight? As I mentioned in a previous post, I had seen him play 3 times — now 4 — and there is no way he is a one-and-done, first round pick this year. I highly doubt he’ll come out, but a good chance if he did he’d go undrafted. The young/potential thing might get him drafted (more NBA drafting mistakes are made because of it), but not even sure that would help as he’s not really a new age, 7-0+ player. More of an old style big in an NBA that doesn’t value those types as much any more. Ohio, You can try to sharpshoot me, but I will defend myself. Let's talk about your take on Bona before the game: "UCLA doesn’t have any NBA first round picks on its roster" Then you contradict yourself few sentences later: "Bona is a good player with most projections I’ve seen having him in latter half of first. But he currently isn’t a dominant player." Last night proved otherwise. Bona: 13 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 steals, 3 blocks and he changed and altered another 5 Beaver shots. He was clearly a dominant last night. To deny this, tells me you didn't watch the game. I had to mute Don MacLean. KC struggled against Bona all night. Chol did a better job. Tyler mixed it with up Bona pretty well too, but in the end he was too much down low. With regards to Mara: It's early. He only played 2 minutes last night, but he's a top 15, five star recruit who's 7 foot 3 who signed with UCLA. That's enough NBA potential right there to get drafted. I'm not a UCLA fan, so I'm glad he didn't play much. Have at it. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 29, 2023 7:37:43 GMT -8
So I’m curious. Had you even seen Mara play prior to tonight? As I mentioned in a previous post, I had seen him play 3 times — now 4 — and there is no way he is a one-and-done, first round pick this year. I highly doubt he’ll come out, but a good chance if he did he’d go undrafted. The young/potential thing might get him drafted (more NBA drafting mistakes are made because of it), but not even sure that would help as he’s not really a new age, 7-0+ player. More of an old style big in an NBA that doesn’t value those types as much any more. I could see Mara as a 3 and done IF he develops. He’s tall, but otherwise he didn’t stand out for me. He needs a bunch of seasoning to get drafted before that as far as I’m concerned. |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 29, 2023 7:49:26 GMT -8
I hadn't watched Mara much at all. He looks like a project, but at 7 foot 3 and being able to move well, he defaults to a 5 star recruit and NBA draft pick.
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 29, 2023 8:29:41 GMT -8
So I’m curious. Had you even seen Mara play prior to tonight? As I mentioned in a previous post, I had seen him play 3 times — now 4 — and there is no way he is a one-and-done, first round pick this year. I highly doubt he’ll come out, but a good chance if he did he’d go undrafted. The young/potential thing might get him drafted (more NBA drafting mistakes are made because of it), but not even sure that would help as he’s not really a new age, 7-0+ player. More of an old style big in an NBA that doesn’t value those types as much any more. Ohio, You can try to sharpshoot me, but I will defend myself. Let's talk about your take on Bona before the game: "UCLA doesn’t have any NBA first round picks on its roster" Then you contradict yourself few sentences later: "Bona is a good player with most projections I’ve seen having him in latter half of first. But he currently isn’t a dominant player." Last night proved otherwise. Bona: 13 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 steals, 3 blocks and he changed and altered another 5 Beaver shots. He was clearly a dominant last night. To deny this, tells me you didn't watch the game. I had to mute Don MacLean. KC struggled against Bona all night. Chol did a better job. Tyler mixed it with up Bona pretty well too, but in the end he was too much down low. With regards to Mara: It's early. He only played 2 minutes last night, but he's a top 15, five star recruit who's 7 foot 3 who signed with UCLA. That's enough NBA potential right there to get drafted. I'm not a UCLA fan, so I'm glad he didn't play much. Have at it. I didn’t contradict myself at all. No one in that team has been drafted by the NBA in the first round. You stated it as “fact” that both those players would go in first round based on an article from Nov before season had started. That’s why I asked if you had even seen Mara play cuz I find it difficult to believe you would think he is a first round pick in this year’s upcoming draft. I then gave my assessment (not some website’s) of Bona — good player but not a dominant one at this point. Now I have difficulty calling a 13 pt, 8 rebound performance dominant. He certainly was dominant on the defensive end last night. I’d put his overall game last night as impactful rather than dominant, but not gonna argue if you want to call it dominant. But I will point out that the stats you cited for him were all over his season averages. And the only other game he had 3 blocks and 3 steals against was Long Island, which is 1-11. So yes Bona had a very impactful game, but 1 game doesn’t make a player dominant in my book — just like 1 draft projection before the season starts doesn’t make a freshman a one and done first round pick. Interesting that you didn’t answer my question though about whether you had actually seen Mara and UCLA play this year before last night. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 29, 2023 8:43:38 GMT -8
So I’m curious. Had you even seen Mara play prior to tonight? As I mentioned in a previous post, I had seen him play 3 times — now 4 — and there is no way he is a one-and-done, first round pick this year. I highly doubt he’ll come out, but a good chance if he did he’d go undrafted. The young/potential thing might get him drafted (more NBA drafting mistakes are made because of it), but not even sure that would help as he’s not really a new age, 7-0+ player. More of an old style big in an NBA that doesn’t value those types as much any more. I could see Mara as a 3 and done IF he develops. He’s tall, but otherwise he didn’t stand out for me. He needs a bunch of seasoning to get drafted before that as far as I’m concerned. And I’d say that’s a pretty good assessment. It is a big IF from what I’ve seen though. He may get there, but to call him a first round pick now seems ludicrous. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 29, 2023 8:46:33 GMT -8
I could see Mara as a 3 and done IF he develops. He’s tall, but otherwise he didn’t stand out for me. He needs a bunch of seasoning to get drafted before that as far as I’m concerned. And I’d say that’s a pretty good assessment. It is a big IF from what I’ve seen though. He may get there, but to call him a first round pick now seems ludicrous. He's basically the equivalent of Chol right now in his career. He's going to need to show a lot more to be a first round draft pick. It takes more now days then just being 7'3". |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 29, 2023 8:58:16 GMT -8
I do the MBB live chat thread because I enjoy following Beaver sports (and it's approved by The Glove). I borrow tidbits from other sites, I really don't spend much time on it. I sometimes use the theme "The Haves versus the Have Nots", which is common with Beaver MBB. We all want Beaver Basketball to be better (aka: fire WT, invest in MBB, create MBB NIL, etc), that's why we're here. Also, I appreciate your "Next" takes on upcoming OSU opponents. It's game 1 of Pac12 play, and we can agree to disagree.
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 29, 2023 9:29:23 GMT -8
I do the MBB live chat thread because I enjoy following Beaver sports (and it's approved by The Glove). I borrow tidbits from other sites, I really don't spend much time on it. I sometimes use the theme "The Haves versus the Have Nots", which is common with Beaver MBB. We all want Beaver Basketball to be better (aka: fire WT, invest in MBB, create MBB NIL, etc), that's why we're here. Also, I appreciate your "Next" takes on upcoming OSU opponents. It's game 1 of Pac12 play, and we can agree to disagree. Fair enough. And like others on here, I enjoy and appreciate your game previews. Your second post in the thread was fairly passive aggressive though like you were throwing salvos to combat negative future comments you thought would come during/after game. Interestingly, I thought the comments about the game didn’t get very negative at all. On to game two. Hopefully the outcome is more to all of our likings. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 29, 2023 10:33:53 GMT -8
I do the MBB live chat thread because I enjoy following Beaver sports (and it's approved by The Glove). I borrow tidbits from other sites, I really don't spend much time on it. I sometimes use the theme "The Haves versus the Have Nots", which is common with Beaver MBB. We all want Beaver Basketball to be better (aka: fire WT, invest in MBB, create MBB NIL, etc), that's why we're here. Also, I appreciate your "Next" takes on upcoming OSU opponents. It's game 1 of Pac12 play, and we can agree to disagree. We all want to improve Beaver Basketball, we just disagree with how to go about it. I'd work in the last 2 options you suggested in parentheses first, then follow up with the fire Tinkle suggestion IF things don't dramatically improve. IF this season is no better than last, all 3 should probably be done at once. Otherwise it will probably be cheaper (and probably more effective) to invest in the program and NIL and sort out the coaching situation later than it would be to buy out Tinkle and hire a new coach that you automatically hamstring because OSU continues to be too cheap or not forward thinking enough to invest in the program and NIL. |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 29, 2023 14:48:39 GMT -8
I do the MBB live chat thread because I enjoy following Beaver sports (and it's approved by The Glove). I borrow tidbits from other sites, I really don't spend much time on it. I sometimes use the theme "The Haves versus the Have Nots", which is common with Beaver MBB. We all want Beaver Basketball to be better (aka: fire WT, invest in MBB, create MBB NIL, etc), that's why we're here. Also, I appreciate your "Next" takes on upcoming OSU opponents. It's game 1 of Pac12 play, and we can agree to disagree. We all want to improve Beaver Basketball, we just disagree with how to go about it. I'd work in the last 2 options you suggested in parentheses first, then follow up with the fire Tinkle suggestion IF things don't dramatically improve. IF this season is no better than last, all 3 should probably be done at once. Otherwise it will probably be cheaper (and probably more effective) to invest in the program and NIL and sort out the coaching situation later than it would be to buy out Tinkle and hire a new coach that you automatically hamstring because OSU continues to be too cheap or not forward thinking enough to invest in the program and NIL. And, sometimes when stating options it is never going to be a given what is truly the "best" route?! Short term fix, win sooner. Long sustained build, continuity? Somehow a combo. Whatever... "it" needs to start getting folks excited and back into Gill. The other discussion which probably can't be made with the uncertainty of the future... is OSU better off as a "have not"? Not in the Top 60-64 "conference" if comes to that. Not fighting the losing battle if huge money donors/NIL. Not being consistently (most likely) in the bottom tier (40-60). TV money, football only leagues, etc. Not really sure what fits OSU, but don't see the programs overall as able to function in the "elite" tier. And, the stress of trying to keep up and being a feeder program doesn't seem to be a real positive for any athletic program. |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 29, 2023 15:45:33 GMT -8
I do the MBB live chat thread because I enjoy following Beaver sports (and it's approved by The Glove). I borrow tidbits from other sites, I really don't spend much time on it. I sometimes use the theme "The Haves versus the Have Nots", which is common with Beaver MBB. We all want Beaver Basketball to be better (aka: fire WT, invest in MBB, create MBB NIL, etc), that's why we're here. Also, I appreciate your "Next" takes on upcoming OSU opponents. It's game 1 of Pac12 play, and we can agree to disagree. We all want to improve Beaver Basketball, we just disagree with how to go about it. I'd work in the last 2 options you suggested in parentheses first, then follow up with the fire Tinkle suggestion IF things don't dramatically improve. IF this season is no better than last, all 3 should probably be done at once. Otherwise it will probably be cheaper (and probably more effective) to invest in the program and NIL and sort out the coaching situation later than it would be to buy out Tinkle and hire a new coach that you automatically hamstring because OSU continues to be too cheap or not forward thinking enough to invest in the program and NIL. How do you fix Beaver Basketball? I've been following OSU MBB since 1980, and all I know is Oregon State basketball being done on the cheap. With regards to The Orange Express, whoever hired Ralph Miller needs to be credited for a genius hire. It was beautiful. Whatever OSU paid him, it was a steal and OSU cemented a legacy of being a basketball school. That said, I can't believe how quickly the OSU MBB program tanked after Ralph left. Jimmy had one good season w Gary Payton, and it was over. The Beavs finished first in 1990, then 5th, then 7th, 2 years later OSU finished dead last in the Pac10. What a fall from grace. All that basketball capital that Ralph built was spent. It was over, last place. Eddie replaced Jimmy and he talked about the difficulty in recruiting and how bad the facilities were. OSU coulda thrown him a lifeline, but they did nothing. He was fired and replaced by Ritchie (on the cheap) who after 2 years of finishing 9th in a 10 team conference realized it couldn't be done and left before getting fired. Next Jay John, then CR and WT (all on the cheap). In 2013, a new basketball center was built and in 2017, new locker rooms but it was too late, the damage was already done, program cratered. Recently, college sports ushered in the new age of the transfer portal and NIL. A double-edged sword for OSU, with the NIL part being more of a dagger to the chest. Now the Beavers find themselves rebuilding a Pac12 conference with a MWC schedule for next 2 years. Why doesn't OSU care about MBB and do people really think replacing the coach will fix a systemic problem? I don't think it's that easy. |
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Post by lebaneaver on Dec 29, 2023 16:39:39 GMT -8
I didn’t watch. Was preparing MENTALLY for the beat down by the domers in the bowl game. Not sure I could handle the (ongoing) frustration with the MBB team, back-to-back days.
I will say; it wasn’t the beat down I expected from a more talented ‘ruins team.
“They were who we THOUGHT they were…”. So were WE.
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