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Post by castorcanadensis on Sept 14, 2023 15:09:39 GMT -8
If the 10 members claim they haven't given notice to withdraw from the conference then why isn't there a 2024 football schedule?  Because they have, Batman! Bingo Robin! |
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Post by Mike84 on Sept 14, 2023 19:16:55 GMT -8
Hard to guess how competitive the MWC teams will be if, by joining the Pac, their athletic department's budgets are increased substantially. I seriously doubt that it will make much of a difference. The increase may be substantial relatively speaking to their current budget numbers, but still far behind the power conference schools. Very unlikely that it's going to be enough to make any kind of impact on the field. Several of the MWC schools have or will be improving facilities and the financial bump would probably go to alleviate those costs for the most part. The bigger question is how OSU and WSU will be able to continue to keep the football programs going at the current level of success along with having quite a bit less money to fund the rest of the sports when the Pac-12 well runs dry. I understand that your preference is a move to the Big-12, and I understand why, but I think you may be downplaying the possibility that some MWC schools could improve quite a bit by increasing their budget and being associated with some (former?) P5 teams. Utah moved from the Mountain West to the Pac-12 in 2011. They had a winning Pac-12 conference record by 2014 and have won the Pac-12 for the last two seasons. I'm not saying that moving to the Big-12 would not be the better option, IF an invite happened and IF there was a "Western Conference", but there is a lot to be said for trying to salvage a West Coast P5 conference, if there's any way it can happen. Honestly, I'm not sure which is less likely, an invite to the Big-12 or being able to re-build a West Coast P5 conference. If a magic genie gave me a wish, I would wish for rebuilding a West Coast P5 conference. |
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Post by Dave86 on Sept 14, 2023 19:54:13 GMT -8
I seriously doubt that it will make much of a difference. The increase may be substantial relatively speaking to their current budget numbers, but still far behind the power conference schools. Very unlikely that it's going to be enough to make any kind of impact on the field. Several of the MWC schools have or will be improving facilities and the financial bump would probably go to alleviate those costs for the most part. The bigger question is how OSU and WSU will be able to continue to keep the football programs going at the current level of success along with having quite a bit less money to fund the rest of the sports when the Pac-12 well runs dry. I understand that your preference is a move to the Big-12, and I understand why, but I think you may be downplaying the possibility that some MWC schools could improve quite a bit by increasing their budget and being associated with some (former?) P5 teams. Utah moved from the Mountain West to the Pac-12 in 2011. They had a winning Pac-12 conference record by 2014 and have won the Pac-12 for the last two seasons. I'm not saying that moving to the Big-12 would not be the better option, IF an invite happened and IF there was a "Western Conference", but there is a lot to be said for trying to salvage a West Coast P5 conference, if there's any way it can happen. Honestly, I'm not sure which is less likely, an invite to the Big-12 or being able to re-build a West Coast P5 conference. If a magic genie gave me a wish, I would wish for rebuilding a West Coast P5 conference. Mike - I share your optimism that if the PAC-12 rebuilds itself by raiding the MWC for 6 schools, then the level of play by those MWC schools will improve. PAC-12 association as you stated would be one reason. The other would be because the departing 10 PAC-12 members (USC, UW, UO, etc.) may leave some new west coast recruiting opportunities that a rebuilt PAC-12 conference could exploit. (To clarify, Mike didn't state in him post that the PAC-2 should raid the MWC for 6 schools, but I believe that's the best move.) Dave |
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Post by grayman on Sept 14, 2023 20:29:26 GMT -8
I seriously doubt that it will make much of a difference. The increase may be substantial relatively speaking to their current budget numbers, but still far behind the power conference schools. Very unlikely that it's going to be enough to make any kind of impact on the field. Several of the MWC schools have or will be improving facilities and the financial bump would probably go to alleviate those costs for the most part. The bigger question is how OSU and WSU will be able to continue to keep the football programs going at the current level of success along with having quite a bit less money to fund the rest of the sports when the Pac-12 well runs dry. I understand that your preference is a move to the Big-12, and I understand why, but I think you may be downplaying the possibility that some MWC schools could improve quite a bit by increasing their budget and being associated with some (former?) P5 teams. Utah moved from the Mountain West to the Pac-12 in 2011. They had a winning Pac-12 conference record by 2014 and have won the Pac-12 for the last two seasons. I'm not saying that moving to the Big-12 would not be the better option, IF an invite happened and IF there was a "Western Conference", but there is a lot to be said for trying to salvage a West Coast P5 conference, if there's any way it can happen. Honestly, I'm not sure which is less likely, an invite to the Big-12 or being able to re-build a West Coast P5 conference. If a magic genie gave me a wish, I would wish for rebuilding a West Coast P5 conference. I mean, maybe Boise State? The problem with the Utah comparison is that the Utes made a move to an established Power 5 conference. I also believe that Utah has some built-in advantages that not only enabled the transition but put them on a pretty high trajectory once in the Pac-12. One is the SLC footprint. Then there was a highly successful football run before joining the Pac-12. They made two huge hires while in the MWC...Urban Meyer and then Kyle Whittingham. Meyer won two MWC titles in the two years he was there (10-2 in 2003 and 12-0 in 2004 and a Fiesta Bowl win. Utah finished ranked 4th and 5th). Meyer left and Whittingham was hired. Whittingham went to six (winning five) bowl games in six years in the MWC. He led the Utes to a MWC title in 2008, went 12-0, beat Alabama 31-17 in the 2009 Sugar Bowl and wound up ranked No. 2 and No. 4. Only Boise State has done something similar. Yeah, my preference is the Big 12. But I don't think it's very likely even though I hold out a little bit of hope. I'm all for salvaging some sort of a P5 Conference but I don't think it can be done by taking the MWC in its entirety (or really, limiting it to the West Coast). I don't think anything OSU does short of somehow getting into the Big 12 would be all that comparable to being in a power conference, unfortunately. I would be OK with a Coast to Coast Pac and make it as strong as possible. You would have to limit travel to each region, however. Maybe play some mini-tournaments and multi-school meets so that the teams aren't just always playing other regional schools. |
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Post by fishwrapper on Sept 14, 2023 20:38:18 GMT -8
So I just saw a little blub saying all of the Pac 12 Presidents signed off on an employee retention and severance package for the conference yesterday. No actual "vote" apparently, but everyone signed off. I was unable to copy a link, otherwise I'd have linked it. Per President Murthy's message to the OSU community on Monday (see: leadership.oregonstate.edu/speeches-and-statements/pac-12-temporary-restraining-order-granted): The Court ordered the parties to confer on a schedule for the next hearing on the governance question. In the meantime, the conference must receive unanimous consent on any board matters.I have been looking, but am unable to find a link to the actual temporary restraining order; that said, I do not think that OSU would post something like that without a receipt... |
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Post by grayman on Sept 14, 2023 20:46:02 GMT -8
I understand that your preference is a move to the Big-12, and I understand why, but I think you may be downplaying the possibility that some MWC schools could improve quite a bit by increasing their budget and being associated with some (former?) P5 teams. Utah moved from the Mountain West to the Pac-12 in 2011. They had a winning Pac-12 conference record by 2014 and have won the Pac-12 for the last two seasons. I'm not saying that moving to the Big-12 would not be the better option, IF an invite happened and IF there was a "Western Conference", but there is a lot to be said for trying to salvage a West Coast P5 conference, if there's any way it can happen. Honestly, I'm not sure which is less likely, an invite to the Big-12 or being able to re-build a West Coast P5 conference. If a magic genie gave me a wish, I would wish for rebuilding a West Coast P5 conference. I mean, maybe Boise State? The problem with the Utah comparison is that the Utes made a move to an established Power 5 conference. I also believe that Utah has some built-in advantages that not only enabled the transition but put them on a pretty high trajectory once in the Pac-12. One is the SLC footprint. Then there was a highly successful football run before joining the Pac-12. They made two huge hires while in the MWC...Urban Meyer and then Kyle Whittingham. Meyer won two MWC titles in the two years he was there (10-2 in 2003 and 12-0 in 2004 and a Fiesta Bowl win. Utah finished ranked 4th and 5th). Meyer left and Whittingham was hired. Whittingham went to six (winning five) bowl games in six years in the MWC. He led the Utes to a MWC title in 2008, went 12-0, beat Alabama 31-17 in the 2009 Sugar Bowl and wound up ranked No. 2 and No. 4. Only Boise State has done something similar. Yeah, my preference is the Big 12. But I don't think it's very likely even though I hold out a little bit of hope. I'm all for salvaging some sort of a P5 Conference but I don't think it can be done by taking the MWC in its entirety (or really, limiting it to the West Coast). I don't think anything OSU does short of somehow getting into the Big 12 would be all that comparable to being in a power conference, unfortunately. I would be OK with a coast to coast Pac and make it as strong as possible. You would have to limit travel to each region, however. Maybe play some mini-tournaments and multi-school meets so that the teams aren't just always playing other regional schools. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Sept 14, 2023 21:09:39 GMT -8
Because they have, Batman! Bingo Robin! This whole question of what constitutes 'giving notice': I'm sure this issue must have been adjudicated in court many times, and there must be precedents that apply. A guy goes into his boss' office, tells him he quits, and is giving his 2 weeks notice. Then, circumstances change over the next 10 days, and he goes back in and tells the boss he's changed his mind, and will be staying. The boss tells him no, we've made other plans based on your resignation, and resigned you will stay. The guy says, wait a minute, I never put that in writing, so I haven't resigned. The boss tells him, you sat in this office and told me, and we handled it like gentlemen. You told me, and your co-workers, that you had accepted a job with the XYZ Company. We're not changing things now; you've resigned. Certainly this matter has gone to court in the past, And, had the employee won, we'd all be insisting that any employee who quits signs a standard form stating that he has voluntarily resigned effective such and such a date at the time he verbally does so. I wouldn't be at all concerned about this nonsense of giving written notice. Additionally, I would expect that, when discovery is done, there will be emails back and forth between people at the conference office and people at the traitorous ten that will make reference, in writing, to the traitor school leaving. the time of giving notice |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 14, 2023 21:22:24 GMT -8
This whole question of what constitutes 'giving notice': I'm sure this issue must have been adjudicated in court many times, and there must be precedents that apply. A guy goes into his boss' office, tells him he quits, and is giving his 2 weeks notice. Then, circumstances change over the next 10 days, and he goes back in and tells the boss he's changed his mind, and will be staying. The boss tells him no, we've made other plans based on your resignation, and resigned you will stay. The guy says, wait a minute, I never put that in writing, so I haven't resigned. The boss tells him, you sat in this office and told me, and we handled it like gentlemen. You told me, and your co-workers, that you had accepted a job with the XYZ Company. We're not changing things now; you've resigned. Certainly this matter has gone to court in the past, And, had the employee won, we'd all be insisting that any employee who quits signs a standard form stating that he has voluntarily resigned effective such and such a date at the time he verbally does so. I wouldn't be at all concerned about this nonsense of giving written notice. Additionally, I would expect that, when discovery is done, there will be emails back and forth between people at the conference office and people at the traitorous ten that will make reference, in writing, to the traitor school leaving. the time of giving notice I have just one question, which has been brought up before - did any and/or all of the T10 sign a GOR at each of their new conferences?
I find it hard to believe they would go public if they had not. Once they signed the GOR at the new conference, I would have to believe it could be substituted, or be a de facto, giving notice in writing to the Pac12. You can't get a marriage license, if you are already married. In fact, if any of the new conferences the T10 are going to were told that the GOR they signed was invalid, or if they were changing their mind - one would think any and/or all of the T10 would be opening themselves up to litigation for damages - signing under false pretenses. Unless, of course, you can be members of two conferences at the same time? Actually glad I am not a lawyer on this one  |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 15, 2023 15:21:56 GMT -8
Because they have, Batman! Bingo Robin! As far as I know, only the SEC has released a 2024 schedule. Pretty much everyone else is still just waiting around to see how this mess turns out. |
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Post by beavsteve on Sept 16, 2023 8:47:50 GMT -8
I just saw a Google Alert for a Mercury News article that says that court documents showed UO and UW "expected Board removal". That was in the headline, but I couldn't read the article. If that's true, it seems like an open and shut case when it comes to what schools are still on the Board.
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Post by 93beav on Sept 16, 2023 11:34:35 GMT -8
I just saw a Google Alert for a Mercury News article that says that court documents showed UO and UW "expected Board removal". That was in the headline, but I couldn't read the article. If that's true, it seems like an open and shut case when it comes to what schools are still on the Board. Eh...I just read it and it doesn't seem like as big of a deal as it may seem. They expected to be removed from decisions that concerned the conference after the end of this season, but not during the season. Wilner also wrote about how the PAC-12 counsel wrote letters to UCLA and USC saying it was a conflict of interest if they participated in board meetings, but the attorneys there didn't believe they should be excluded...but didn't fight it. The stupidest thing I read was about uw's president saying she wasn't giving official notice of leaving but the very next day had a press conference about the move to the big-10 and how sad they were..boo hoo. I'm beginning not to like her so uch. I still think the biggest thing they have is the letter to Colorado. And I still believe the state government of Oregon/Washington should tell uw/uo either they pay alimony or they vote in favor of WSU/OSU keeping all of the money. Otherwise it goes out of state. If uw/uo were forced into that, it would no longer matter. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 16, 2023 12:08:35 GMT -8
I just saw a Google Alert for a Mercury News article that says that court documents showed UO and UW "expected Board removal". That was in the headline, but I couldn't read the article. If that's true, it seems like an open and shut case when it comes to what schools are still on the Board. Eh...I just read it and it doesn't seem like as big of a deal as it may seem. They expected to be removed from decisions that concerned the conference after the end of this season, but not during the season. Wilner also wrote about how the PAC-12 counsel wrote letters to UCLA and USC saying it was a conflict of interest if they participated in board meetings, but the attorneys there didn't believe they should be excluded...but didn't fight it. The stupidest thing I read was about uw's president saying she wasn't giving official notice of leaving but the very next day had a press conference about the move to the big-10 and how sad they were..boo hoo. I'm beginning not to like her so uch. I still think the biggest thing they have is the letter to Colorado. And I still believe the state government of Oregon/Washington should tell uw/uo either they pay alimony or they vote in favor of WSU/OSU keeping all of the money. Otherwise it goes out of state. If uw/uo were forced into that, it would no longer matter.The last point is a great point. That should happen, if anyone in government had two braincells to rub together and a spine. |
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Post by sparty on Sept 17, 2023 6:04:26 GMT -8
Eh...I just read it and it doesn't seem like as big of a deal as it may seem. They expected to be removed from decisions that concerned the conference after the end of this season, but not during the season. Wilner also wrote about how the PAC-12 counsel wrote letters to UCLA and USC saying it was a conflict of interest if they participated in board meetings, but the attorneys there didn't believe they should be excluded...but didn't fight it. The stupidest thing I read was about uw's president saying she wasn't giving official notice of leaving but the very next day had a press conference about the move to the big-10 and how sad they were..boo hoo. I'm beginning not to like her so uch. I still think the biggest thing they have is the letter to Colorado. And I still believe the state government of Oregon/Washington should tell uw/uo either they pay alimony or they vote in favor of WSU/OSU keeping all of the money. Otherwise it goes out of state. If uw/uo were forced into that, it would no longer matter.The last point is a great point. That should happen, if anyone in government had two braincells to rub together and a spine. Do you think if someone ran this as their primary campaign focus that they would get the votes? Seems like an easy way to get elected. They would have to poll it first before they jumped on board but I think it would work. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 17, 2023 8:29:50 GMT -8
The last point is a great point. That should happen, if anyone in government had two braincells to rub together and a spine. Do you think if someone ran this as their primary campaign focus that they would get the votes? Seems like an easy way to get elected. They would have to poll it first before they jumped on board but I think it would work. I drafted up a proposed ballot initiative for the 2024 ballot. It seems like that is the way to attack this. |
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