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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 13, 2023 12:59:54 GMT -8
If we leave after this season, the assets would be split amongst all remaining teams. We can't leave with everyone else and then say everything belongs to us. The conference has to go on after 8/1/24 or there is no question that the assets would be divided equally. You crossed this out and then said basically the same thing: And I believe that if OSU and WSU had control of the Pac and it was after Aug. 1, they could retain most, if not all, of the non-cash assets and at least some portion of the payments even if they dissolve the conference. But I kind of botched what I was trying to get at about the non-cash assets...which was that OSU and WSU would use the non-cash assets as leverage to, for example, get into a power conference. And then dissolve the conference. So they would retain a portion of the non-cash assets after that if there were any left over. The "most, if not all" part would most likely not happen. Not even sure why I put it that way. Probably lack of sleep. The point is that the conference has to go on after 8/1/24. We are not going to wait until after that date to make a decision on a conference affiliation because we would not have scheduling in place for our teams for next year. If we make a decision to leave before 8/1/24, the assets would be split evenly, because the conference would dissolve at that point. There's no way we can go the Big 12 and keep the assets unless the Big 12 dissolved to join the Pac 12, which would never happen. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 13, 2023 13:01:05 GMT -8
We aren't doing a reverse merger with the BIG 12. He was only talking in regards to the BIG 12. You could do an actual merger with the Big 12, though. Basically negotiate a lower rate and use the leftover money from the Pac-12 to backfill. You would need a real lawsuit, though, to settle that issue. But, at this point, pretty much everything should still be on the table. You're not getting the leftover money at that point. It would be divided up amongst all teams leaving |
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Post by grayman on Sept 13, 2023 15:29:40 GMT -8
Unless OSU and WSU became the Pac but played basically an independent schedule for a year or two...but yeah, that seems very unlikely unless they had a specific end game in mind (a later jump to a power conference, which they would then dissolve the Pac).
But a jump to the Big 12 is still possible if offered and OSU and WSU believe the long-term benefits outweigh getting the payouts, etc. That income isn't going to be coming in forever, nor will it last forever.
I will say that I would be much more supportive of the idea of a Pac that added more than just MWC teams. IMO there's only about four MWC programs that are truly worth adding and maybe two more borderline ones.
That doesn't cut it if you're truly trying to rebuild the Pac and not just trying to throw together a "conference" by basically just joining one in order to have a schedule next year. We should be thinking long-term here.
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Post by speakthetruth on Sept 13, 2023 15:47:37 GMT -8
Unless OSU and WSU became the Pac but played basically an independent schedule for a year or two...but yeah, that seems very unlikely unless they had a specific end game in mind (possibly a more expanded version of the Pac or a later jump to a power conference, which they would then dissolve the Pac). But a jump to the Big 12 is still possible if offered and OSU and WSU believe the long-term benefits outweigh getting the payouts, etc. That income isn't going to be coming in forever, nor will it last forever. I don't see anyway that we could play an independent schedule. But even if we could how do you recruit? What do you tell them or their parents? |
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Post by grayman on Sept 13, 2023 16:35:11 GMT -8
Unless OSU and WSU became the Pac but played basically an independent schedule for a year or two...but yeah, that seems very unlikely unless they had a specific end game in mind (possibly a more expanded version of the Pac or a later jump to a power conference, which they would then dissolve the Pac). But a jump to the Big 12 is still possible if offered and OSU and WSU believe the long-term benefits outweigh getting the payouts, etc. That income isn't going to be coming in forever, nor will it last forever. I don't see anyway that we could play an independent schedule. But even if we could how do you recruit? What do you tell them or their parents? I agree that it's pretty unlikely. But recruiting would depend on a few things...how good the schedule is, how long are the Beavers planning to go independent (one year? Two?) and probably the most important aspect would be what plan is in place to move forward. I would say OSU fans should be more concerned about long-term recruiting (among other things) if the Beavers wind up in the Pac/MWC. |
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ftd
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Post by ftd on Sept 13, 2023 17:10:30 GMT -8
So back on topic, when is the next legal challenge coming to actually determine if the ugly 10 have 'given notice'?
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sparty
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Post by sparty on Sept 13, 2023 18:07:25 GMT -8
You crossed this out and then said basically the same thing: And I believe that if OSU and WSU had control of the Pac and it was after Aug. 1, they could retain most, if not all, of the non-cash assets and at least some portion of the payments even if they dissolve the conference. But I kind of botched what I was trying to get at about the non-cash assets...which was that OSU and WSU would use the non-cash assets as leverage to, for example, get into a power conference. And then dissolve the conference. So they would retain a portion of the non-cash assets after that if there were any left over. The "most, if not all" part would most likely not happen. Not even sure why I put it that way. Probably lack of sleep. The point is that the conference has to go on after 8/1/24. We are not going to wait until after that date to make a decision on a conference affiliation because we would not have scheduling in place for our teams for next year. If we make a decision to leave before 8/1/24, the assets would be split evenly, because the conference would dissolve at that point. There's no way we can go the Big 12 and keep the assets unless the Big 12 dissolved to join the Pac 12, which would never happen. Shsssh! ....you are making too much sense. |
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sparty
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Post by sparty on Sept 13, 2023 18:16:11 GMT -8
Unless OSU and WSU became the Pac but played basically an independent schedule for a year or two...but yeah, that seems very unlikely unless they had a specific end game in mind (a later jump to a power conference, which they would then dissolve the Pac). But a jump to the Big 12 is still possible if offered and OSU and WSU believe the long-term benefits outweigh getting the payouts, etc. That income isn't going to be coming in forever, nor will it last forever. I will say that I would be much more supportive of the idea of a Pac that added more than just MWC teams. IMO there's only about four MWC programs that are truly worth adding and maybe two more borderline ones. That doesn't cut it if you're truly trying to rebuild the Pac and not just trying to throw together a "conference" by basically just joining one in order to have a schedule next year. We should be thinking long-term here. Interesting statement: IMO there's only about four MWC programs that are truly worth adding and maybe two more borderline ones. Based on what criteria? In our eyes? Television market, national appeal, competitiveness in both Football and basketball?
We did not like it when others said the same thing on other boards in the Big10, Big12 about us.
Funny how there is a pecking order. Big10, Big12, Pac, MWC in regards to ...truly worth adding statements...
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 13, 2023 18:36:00 GMT -8
You could do an actual merger with the Big 12, though. Basically negotiate a lower rate and use the leftover money from the Pac-12 to backfill. You would need a real lawsuit, though, to settle that issue. But, at this point, pretty much everything should still be on the table. You're not getting the leftover money at that point. It would be divided up amongst all teams leaving No, it would be a merger. The conference that the Pac-12 merges into keeps the money. It only gets split equally, if the conference dissolves or if all of the teams leave on or before August 1, 2024. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Sept 13, 2023 18:47:59 GMT -8
I have suggested this before, and will keep returning to it. I think the Big 12 idea is dead in the water, BUT why couldn't the Big 12 and the PAC X form an ALLIANCE short term whereby they would schedule each other in the regular season, and even have an Alliance postseason tournament?
That would allow us to piggyback on their media contract, allow them to utilize the PAC X/Big 12 Alliance Network, give them the expanded market they've already taken (plus access to Washington and Oregon), and create a much more manageable travel schedule for them.
If that means 4 of the traitors coming back, so be it. If they want to keep all their current schools, plus the 4 traitors, in the Big 12, that's fine too. During the length of the agreement, we could try to rebuild the PAC side of things, and then go our merry way.
I don't even remotely think anything like tis would happen. I'm just presenting another scenario for getting us together with the Big 12.
But one other thought on this. Why, instead of conferences poaching schools from existing conferences as has happened, wouldn't the Big 12 suggested some form of alliance with the PAC long, long ago? The 2 would basically wrap up the entire west and southwest for media contracts and give the PAC 12 Network much more content and more viewers. They could agree to non-conference competition in all sports - holiday basketball tournaments, a 12 game football home and home for the Alliance Cup, February baseball tournaments in Arizona, that type of thing.
This s%#t didn't have to happen.
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 13, 2023 19:09:31 GMT -8
You're not getting the leftover money at that point. It would be divided up amongst all teams leaving No, it would be a merger. The conference that the Pac-12 merges into keeps the money. It only gets split equally, if the conference dissolves or if all of the teams leave on or before August 1, 2024. Good luck with that lawsuit if we do that. The merger would be considered a dissolution of the conference. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 13, 2023 19:21:15 GMT -8
Unless OSU and WSU became the Pac but played basically an independent schedule for a year or two...but yeah, that seems very unlikely unless they had a specific end game in mind (a later jump to a power conference, which they would then dissolve the Pac). But a jump to the Big 12 is still possible if offered and OSU and WSU believe the long-term benefits outweigh getting the payouts, etc. That income isn't going to be coming in forever, nor will it last forever. I will say that I would be much more supportive of the idea of a Pac that added more than just MWC teams. IMO there's only about four MWC programs that are truly worth adding and maybe two more borderline ones. That doesn't cut it if you're truly trying to rebuild the Pac and not just trying to throw together a "conference" by basically just joining one in order to have a schedule next year. We should be thinking long-term here. Interesting statement: IMO there's only about four MWC programs that are truly worth adding and maybe two more borderline ones. Based on what criteria? In our eyes? Television market, national appeal, competitiveness in both Football and basketball?
We did not like it when others said the same thing on other boards in the Big10, Big12 about us.
Funny how there is a pecking order. Big10, Big12, Pac, MWC in regards to ...truly worth adding statements...
Frankly, I was being kind. There's probably two or three (Boise State being one). But to answer your question, yeah, TV viewership, TV market, national name recognition and program success. I can look up the numbers on TV viewership, TV market size and program success (mainly football, but recently San Diego State in men's hoops). I can even judge national name recognition to a degree without just using my opinion. There are a few teams that are extremely low overall. But go ahead and believe that they all belong or that we can't pick some over others because that's what happened to us or whatever you want to believe. And if you didn't like what was being said about OSU, you should have countered it with as many facts as possible to support a compelling argument. There are a few, believe it or not. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 13, 2023 19:50:48 GMT -8
Interesting statement: IMO there's only about four MWC programs that are truly worth adding and maybe two more borderline ones. Based on what criteria? In our eyes? Television market, national appeal, competitiveness in both Football and basketball?
We did not like it when others said the same thing on other boards in the Big10, Big12 about us.
Funny how there is a pecking order. Big10, Big12, Pac, MWC in regards to ...truly worth adding statements...
Frankly, I was being kind. There's probably two or three (Boise State being one). But to answer your question, yeah, TV viewership, TV market, national name recognition and program success. I can look up the numbers on TV viewership, TV market size and program success (mainly football, but recently San Diego State in men's hoops). I can even judge national name recognition to a degree without just using my opinion. There are a few teams that are extremely low overall. But go ahead and believe that they all belong or that we can't pick some over others because that's what happened to us or whatever you want to believe. And if you didn't like what was being said about OSU, you should have countered it with as many facts as possible to support a compelling argument. There are a few, believe it or not. So with your attitude toward the MWC you should then totally get why OSU/WSU were left out and have no problem with it. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 13, 2023 20:10:59 GMT -8
Frankly, I was being kind. There's probably two or three (Boise State being one). But to answer your question, yeah, TV viewership, TV market, national name recognition and program success. I can look up the numbers on TV viewership, TV market size and program success (mainly football, but recently San Diego State in men's hoops). I can even judge national name recognition to a degree without just using my opinion. There are a few teams that are extremely low overall. But go ahead and believe that they all belong or that we can't pick some over others because that's what happened to us or whatever you want to believe. And if you didn't like what was being said about OSU, you should have countered it with as many facts as possible to support a compelling argument. There are a few, believe it or not. So with your attitude toward the MWC you should then totally get why OSU/WSU were left out and have no problem with it. No, because IMO OSU and WSU are worthy of staying at the power conference level. If OSU and WSU are truly trying to rebuild the Pac, then IMO they need to find schools that can show that they meet a lot of the criteria (which I touched on in the previous post) to put the new Pac as close as possible to a power conference level. The leftover teams would not be left without the ability to be in a conference (probably just a new version of the MWC) and they would not be dropping out of a power conference because they would not have been a part of the new Pac at all. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 13, 2023 20:32:53 GMT -8
So with your attitude toward the MWC you should then totally get why OSU/WSU were left out and have no problem with it. No, because IMO OSU and WSU are worthy of staying at the power conference level. If OSU and WSU are truly trying to rebuild the Pac, then IMO they need to find schools that can show that they meet a lot of the criteria (which I touched on in the previous post) to put the new Pac as close as possible to a power conference level. The leftover teams would not be left without the ability to be in a conference (probably just a new version of the MWC) and they would not be dropping out of a power conference because they would not have been a part of the new Pac at all. You judged several quality universities as inferior that are far more than their football teams. Many have had more overall athletic success over the last decade(s) than OSU. The media, B10, and B12 played their cards in the name of biz. As wrong as you may think it is, just because you sit in favor of OSU/WSU, arrogance is arrogance. |
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