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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 12, 2023 12:52:19 GMT -8
I know how you view Yormark's statement, but " right now, we’re done" hardly conveys an absolute in my opinion. I would think OSU and WSU would probably use some of the other (non-cash) assets as leverage. Just as they would to engineer a reverse merger with the MWC. As far as statements (pro or con) from coaches and/or players, I haven't seen any at all. I would suspect (just my opinion) that they (a vast majority) are not in favor of going to the MWC if there is any possibility at all of making a push to go to a power conference. Of course, if OSU and WSU wind up coming up short in getting control of the Pac, then they are almost certainly going to end up in the MWC. Is all that matters... OSU and WSU need to prep for right now. Plus as stated by another, in no way do I want OSU affiliated with the B12 or B10 and those teams that left. No more being the "little brother", please take us along on your coattails. Forge a new and highly successful path. And, even though I rarely pay attention to anything Oregon, I will be quite amused when they are fighting for the 4th, 5th, 6th B10 bowl berths, and paying huge travel budgets. Getting an invite now would feel like we blackmailed our way in. No thanks. |
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Mike84
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Post by Mike84 on Sept 12, 2023 13:10:18 GMT -8
Is all that matters... OSU and WSU need to prep for right now. Plus as stated by another, in no way do I want OSU affiliated with the B12 or B10 and those teams that left. No more being the "little brother", please take us along on your coattails. Forge a new and highly successful path. And, even though I rarely pay attention to anything Oregon, I will be quite amused when they are fighting for the 4th, 5th, 6th B10 bowl berths, and paying huge travel budgets. Getting an invite now would feel like we blackmailed our way in. No thanks. I am so torn on all this. Back when this all fell apart, on that horrible Friday when UofNike and UW killed the conference, I just wanted us to get into the Big-12, as part of the "Western Division". That seemed like it would mostly solve everything, other than still being at a disadvantage to the Big-10 (and the ducks). It would have kept us in a P4 conference, given baseball a relatively strong (compared to the Mountain West) RPI, and would limit travel somewhat by having so many ex-Pac-12 teams in the league. But, when no invite happened and I got more and more pissed off about how this all happened and how OSU (and as it turns out WSU) are legit P5 teams being kicked to the curb and saw that it was "us against the world" and heard Barnes talk about the desire for a "regional" conference, I started to dislike the idea of joining the Traitorous 10 anywhere and wanted more and more for OSU to be what is RIGHT about college football instead of what is WRONG. But it would be a very hard road for OSU and WSU to be the Pac-2 for a couple of years, with no media deal and no Pac-12 network to broadcast the major and minor sports. I keep coming back to there being no good answer. I can see justification for just about any decision that is made, maybe other than joining the ACC. But I no longer know what outcome I'm rooting for. As I said many times during the pandemic, it's as if we are cursed by the old curse, "May you live in interesting times." |
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 15:33:08 GMT -8
I understand why some on this board would prefer OSU and WSU wind up with the MWC as the new Pac. And that's fine.
But I have some grave reservations about that scenario.
One is having most likely a lot less money coming in. If OSU and WSU win in court and do have money coming, that storm could be weathered for a few years. But not long term.
Another is that IMO OSU will take some major hits as far as defections of athletes and coaches. I know a fair number of fans on this board deny that it will happen to a high degree. I'm just not so sure. I think when reality hits that they will not be competing in a power conference, it could cause quite a few to decide enter the transfer portal. Some coaches might start looking elsewhere as well.
Another is the status of the new conference. If it is just the Beavers, Cougars and the MWC teams, I don't see this moving the needle at a national level at all. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU, no matter what the official conference name becomes.
We will just become the little guys that everyone said we were. Maybe some of you are OK with that. I'm not.
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Post by sewingbeaver on Sept 12, 2023 15:48:45 GMT -8
There are 15 other athletic teams at OSU that can/should be considered in the process.
I fully understand this is all about money and football - for now. But the rest of the athletics department will pay a price too. I understand the football program is the major (if not only) sport that brings in more money than it spends as it has been for years.
I suppose I'm hopeful that an interim decision - and maybe even the full decision- considers the entire athletic department and student athletes.
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Post by bvrbred on Sept 12, 2023 15:56:28 GMT -8
I understand why some on this board would prefer OSU and WSU wind up with the MWC as the new Pac. And that's fine. But I have some grave reservations about that scenario. One is having most likely a lot less money coming in. If OSU and WSU win in court and do have money coming, that storm could be weathered for a few years. But not long term. Another is that IMO OSU will take some major hits as far as defections of athletes and coaches. I know a fair number of fans on this board deny that it will happen to a high degree. I'm just not so sure. I think when reality hits that they will not be competing in a power conference, it could cause quite a few to decide enter the transfer portal. Some coaches might start looking elsewhere as well. Another is the status of the new conference. If it is just the Beavers, Cougars and the MWC teams, I don't see this moving the needle at a national level at all. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU, no matter what the official conference name becomes. We will just become the little guys that everyone said we were. Maybe some of you are OK with that. I'm not. Agree with all of it. I'll add that the notion we (and WSU) will lead the MWC teams out of the wilderness into national relevance I find especially unlikely. It looks to me like the distance between the haves and have nots has widened recently, and, given the huge disparity in athletic budgets, I don't see that trend reversing. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 12, 2023 16:26:15 GMT -8
I understand why some on this board would prefer OSU and WSU wind up with the MWC as the new Pac. And that's fine. But I have some grave reservations about that scenario. One is having most likely a lot less money coming in. If OSU and WSU win in court and do have money coming, that storm could be weathered for a few years. But not long term. Another is that IMO OSU will take some major hits as far as defections of athletes and coaches. I know a fair number of fans on this board deny that it will happen to a high degree. I'm just not so sure. I think when reality hits that they will not be competing in a power conference, it could cause quite a few to decide enter the transfer portal. Some coaches might start looking elsewhere as well. Another is the status of the new conference. If it is just the Beavers, Cougars and the MWC teams, I don't see this moving the needle at a national level at all. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU, no matter what the official conference name becomes. We will just become the little guys that everyone said we were. Maybe some of you are OK with that. I'm not. Any settlement with the departing 10 requires the reconstituted Pac-12 to maintain its current P5 status and an automatic berth in the 12-team CFP. Problem solved. After the discovery phase, which I believe is going to be very embarrassing for all parties except us and WSU if the discovery material ever reaches an open courtroom, that's going to be the easiest concession to grant. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 16:55:20 GMT -8
I understand why some on this board would prefer OSU and WSU wind up with the MWC as the new Pac. And that's fine. But I have some grave reservations about that scenario. One is having most likely a lot less money coming in. If OSU and WSU win in court and do have money coming, that storm could be weathered for a few years. But not long term. Another is that IMO OSU will take some major hits as far as defections of athletes and coaches. I know a fair number of fans on this board deny that it will happen to a high degree. I'm just not so sure. I think when reality hits that they will not be competing in a power conference, it could cause quite a few to decide enter the transfer portal. Some coaches might start looking elsewhere as well. Another is the status of the new conference. If it is just the Beavers, Cougars and the MWC teams, I don't see this moving the needle at a national level at all. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU, no matter what the official conference name becomes. We will just become the little guys that everyone said we were. Maybe some of you are OK with that. I'm not. Problem solved. After the discovery phase, which I believe is going to be very embarrassing for all parties except us and WSU if the discovery material ever reaches an open courtroom, that's going to be the easiest concession to grant. Yeah, but how long is that status going to be retained? My guess is it's not going to be a long term situation at all. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 16:59:25 GMT -8
There are 15 other athletic teams at OSU that can/should be considered in the process. I fully understand this is all about money and football - for now. But the rest of the athletics department will pay a price too. I understand the football program is the major (if not only) sport that brings in more money than it spends as it has been for years. I suppose I'm hopeful that an interim decision - and maybe even the full decision- considers the entire athletic department and student athletes. Yep and I meant to touch on this in my post and forgot. Some might be cut. And there isn't a clear-cut road for some of these programs in the MWC. Men's soccer is not played in that conference and gymnastics and wrestling are at a handful of schools (and a huge drop-off for the gymastics program as far as competition). |
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Post by whocares on Sept 12, 2023 18:49:02 GMT -8
"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." We can only accept the options presented to us.
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 19:14:55 GMT -8
"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." We can only accept the options presented to us. Except that in a very real sense we aren't at all. We're right in middle of an attempt to create our own options. What those wind up to be remains to be seen. |
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Post by seastape on Sept 12, 2023 19:45:43 GMT -8
The stadium at SJSU gave me pause about joining the MWC, but I'm back on board with going there. Are we going to take a financial hit? Yes. We may lose some programs and great coaches like Jonathan Smith and the irreplaceable Wayne Tinkle. Losing Smith if (when) it happens, will be a serious blow, for us and him. But people are acting like everything will collapse and we will soon have no athletic program.
San Diego State built a new stadium, Snapdragon Stadium, completed in 2022. First, SDSU bought the property from the City of San Diego for $88 million, which included the old stadium where the Chargers played before the turncoat Spanos family left for the clean air of Los Angeles. Then they built Snapdragon for $310 million. Snapdragon will house not only Aztec football, but also other sports and professional sports as well.
In 2017, Colorado State, desperately trying to get into the Big 12 at the time, completed a new football stadium for $220 million. The first game was played on August 26, 2017, when the Colorado State Rams of the Mountain West defeated the Pac 12 Oregon State Beavers 58-27.
In 2013, Boise State completed a $100 million upgrade to its stadium.
This past year, San Jose State reduced its stadium capacity by removing the east-side seats and constructed a $56 million athletic facility in its place. There are plans to add east-side seats.
In 1991, Fresno State expanded their stadium for 32,000 to over 40,000 in an attempt to lure bigger programs to play there. And it worked...games at home in the past 20 years have included OSU in 2022, Minnesota in 2019, Utah in 2015, Nebraska in 2014, Colorado in 2012, Ole Miss in 2011, Cincinatti (Big East at the time) in 2010, Wisconsin in 2008, uo in 2006, and OSU again in 2003). In 2019, they spent $45 million to upgrade the stadium without expanding it.
Since 2012, Utah State has added over $42 million in athletic facilities.
Moutain West programs still make it and have fun programs to watch. .
But, far more important than money, is keeping a healthy travel schedule for our athletes. No games/series in Georgia and Florida. Keep them out west.
Joining the Mountain West will no doubt hamper our ability to compete for championships. Outside of baseball, that hasn't been happening except for the Fiesta Bowl team, a good few years from Women's basketball early in Rueck's tenure and a fluke 2021 men's basketball season. It sucks that this is happening right at the time when Smith is looking like a legitimately outstanding coach with the sky being his limit. But we can still have fun athletic events and enjoy new rivalries. At this point, I would rather adopt the Mountain West than move to the Big 12.
The Mountain West Conference is not a financial death knell for its better programs, and OSU can be one of them.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 12, 2023 19:49:29 GMT -8
"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." We can only accept the options presented to us. Except that in a very real sense we aren't at all. We're right in middle of an attempt to create our own options. What those wind up to be remains to be seen. I guess. You keep thinking a Big 12 invite is one of those options. That's your prerogative, but it's the longest of longshots on the very best day. Any other option outside of the MWC schools involves frequent travel halfway across the country to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc., for our Olympic sports. You know, the very thing we chide the departing 10 about, and a sure way to kill a budget. And nevermind that the AAC has already pretty clearly said it has no interest in us or the Cougars. |
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ftd
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Post by ftd on Sept 12, 2023 19:56:10 GMT -8
 Could be LOTS of this the many don't want to be aired.. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 20:47:50 GMT -8
Except that in a very real sense we aren't at all. We're right in middle of an attempt to create our own options. What those wind up to be remains to be seen. I guess. You keep thinking a Big 12 invite is one of those options. That's your prerogative, but it's the longest of longshots on the very best day. Any other option outside of the MWC schools involves frequent travel halfway across the country to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc., for our Olympic sports. You know, the very thing we chide the departing 10 about, and a sure way to kill a budget. And nevermind that the AAC has already pretty clearly said it has no interest in us or the Cougars. I think it's a possible option but probably a longshot. I'm just not down for turd polishing when it comes to OSU and WSU merging with the MWC. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 12, 2023 20:54:27 GMT -8
The stadium at SJSU gave me pause about joining the MWC, but I'm back on board with going there. Are we going to take a financial hit? Yes. We may lose some programs and great coaches like Jonathan Smith and the irreplaceable Wayne Tinkle. Losing Smith if (when) it happens, will be a serious blow, for us and him. But people are acting like everything will collapse and we will soon have no athletic program. San Diego State built a new stadium, Snapdragon Stadium, completed in 2022. First, SDSU bought the property from the City of San Diego for $88 million, which included the old stadium where the Chargers played before the turncoat Spanos family left for the clean air of Los Angeles. Then they built Snapdragon for $310 million. Snapdragon will house not only Aztec football, but also other sports and professional sports as well. In 2017, Colorado State, desperately trying to get into the Big 12 at the time, completed a new football stadium for $220 million. The first game was played on August 26, 2017, when the Colorado State Rams of the Mountain West defeated the Pac 12 Oregon State Beavers 58-27. In 2013, Boise State completed a $100 million upgrade to its stadium. This past year, San Jose State reduced its stadium capacity by removing the east-side seats and constructed a $56 million athletic facility in its place. There are plans to add east-side seats. In 1991, Fresno State expanded their stadium for 32,000 to over 40,000 in an attempt to lure bigger programs to play there. And it worked...games at home in the past 20 years have included OSU in 2022, Minnesota in 2019, Utah in 2015, Nebraska in 2014, Colorado in 2012, Ole Miss in 2011, Cincinatti (Big East at the time) in 2010, Wisconsin in 2008, uo in 2006, and OSU again in 2003). In 2019, they spent $45 million to upgrade the stadium without expanding it. Since 2012, Utah State has added over $42 million in athletic facilities. Moutain West programs still make it and have fun programs to watch. . But, far more important than money, is keeping a healthy travel schedule for our athletes. No games/series in Georgia and Florida. Keep them out west. Joining the Mountain West will no doubt hamper our ability to compete for championships. Outside of baseball, that hasn't been happening except for the Fiesta Bowl team, a good few years from Women's basketball early in Rueck's tenure and a fluke 2021 men's basketball season. It sucks that this is happening right at the time when Smith is looking like a legitimately outstanding coach with the sky being his limit. But we can still have fun athletic events and enjoy new rivalries. At this point, I would rather adopt the Mountain West than move to the Big 12. The Mountain West Conference is not a financial death knell for its better programs, and OSU can be one of them. Joining the MWC is probably the worst option. Neither OSU nor WSU has stated publicly that they want to do that. They have also spent money on legal teams to help ensure that doesn't happen. The MWC joining the Pac is probably the second best option and the easiest assuming the Pac remainsan entity next year. What OSU and WSU have both said several times publicly is they want to rebuild the Pac as strong as possible. People on message boards tend to catastrophize. If the Pac Whatever still exists this time next year, it seems that the most likely scenario is the MWC joins it - but there are likely other scenarios (and I am not talking joining one of the three Power 5 conferences to the east that have taken the 10 schools that have left), and I bet Barnes, among others, has been working them hard. I tend to believe our administrators when they have publicly stated they want to rebuild the conference several times. |
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