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Post by castorcanadensis on Sept 12, 2023 6:42:54 GMT -8
Not so quickly.... From the bylaws: "... provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024..." Basically, the conference can seek injunctive relief from those giving notice of leaving, if not the conference is entitled to retain all media and sponsorship rights through August 1st.... the question is, does this mean the conference can retain the proceeds from those rights? That would be a question for the courts if OSU and WSU would seek to retain proceeds earned this year. I would expect OSU and WSU not to play hardball on this, but it sounds like they could IF keeping the "earnings" from this year is what that portion of the bylaws actually means. I remember Canzano mentioning this in his first article that talked about the 420 million number that's been argued about. I fully expect WSU and OSU ago press that case and go after all of them. Why shouldn’t they? Tired of the Mr and Mrs Nice Person tact. Those schools left us for dead. We are coming after them like Charles Bronson in “Death Wish”. Exactly. What do we get for playing nice? Playing nice didn’t come into it when the other 10 left, they were looking out for their best interest. Well our best interest is to squeeze the pac-12 out of as much money as possible. The End. |
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Post by beavaristotle on Sept 12, 2023 6:43:35 GMT -8
I see an offer coming from a power 4 conference. I don’t think the conferences and the TV networks want their dirty laundry aired through discovery. From a risk management standpoint it’s better for them to try and make this whole thing go away.
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Post by joecool on Sept 12, 2023 6:54:12 GMT -8
I see an offer coming from a power 4 conference. I don’t think the conferences and the TV networks want their dirty laundry aired through discovery. From a risk management standpoint it’s better for them to try and make this whole thing go away. I've been thinking this too, although maybe we are being way too optimistic. |
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Sept 12, 2023 7:06:11 GMT -8
I see an offer coming from a power 4 conference. I don’t think the conferences and the TV networks want their dirty laundry aired through discovery. From a risk management standpoint it’s better for them to try and make this whole thing go away. I've been thinking this too, although maybe we are being way too optimistic. Big 12 is the best situation I think as if we both get an invite there will be 7 teams in our current footprint...less long trips UA/ASU/U of Prime/UU/BYU then add OSU/WSU then if a few years when we come back to our senses, we have a foundation for a new Pac-x |
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Post by 93beav on Sept 12, 2023 7:38:42 GMT -8
I've been thinking this too, although maybe we are being way too optimistic. Big 12 is the best situation I think as if we both get an invite there will be 7 teams in our current footprint...less long trips UA/ASU/U of Prime/UU/BYU then add OSU/WSU then if a few years when we come back to our senses, we have a foundation for a new Pac-x Dunno about that... -IF- we were to get an invite, which I still don't think is coming, I'd think ACC. I guess because I'm still having a hard time believing that Calford would do such an idiotic move across the coast. And OSU/WSU don't have deep pocket donors or Calimony to cover the gap. But if they had a pile of media money. The reason I don't think it's occurring is because of the conversations around MWC and a scheduling alliance. I just don't see that happening without some reason behind it. |
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Post by ag87 on Sept 12, 2023 7:45:07 GMT -8
Big 12 is the best situation I think as if we both get an invite there will be 7 teams in our current footprint...less long trips UA/ASU/U of Prime/UU/BYU then add OSU/WSU then if a few years when we come back to our senses, we have a foundation for a new Pac-x Dunno about that... -IF- we were to get an invite, which I still don't think is coming, I'd think ACC. I guess because I'm still having a hard time believing that Calford would do such an idiotic move across the coast. And OSU/WSU don't have deep pocket donors or Calimony to cover the gap. But if they had a pile of media money. The reason I don't think it's occurring is because of the conversations around MWC and a scheduling alliance. I just don't see that happening without some reason behind it. Somewhat related to this is I've had a couple of professional relationships with people who have an undergrad engineering degree from Stanford or an MBA. And one of those had another degree from Cal Berkeley. Without exceptions, their egos were larger than their abilitites. Just because they have high IQ's doesnt mean that going to the ACC isn't buttstupid. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Sept 12, 2023 7:52:47 GMT -8
Not so quickly.... From the bylaws: "... provided, that if any member does deliver a notice of withdrawal prior to August 1, 2024, in violation of this chapter, the Conference shall be entitled to an injunction and other equitable relief to prevent such breach, and if a court of competent jurisdiction shall deny the Conference such injunctive relief, the Conference shall be entitled to retain all the media and sponsorship rights in the multi-player video distribution (MPVD) and telecommunications/wireless categories of the member purporting to withdraw through August 1, 2024..." Basically, the conference can seek injunctive relief from those giving notice of leaving, if not the conference is entitled to retain all media and sponsorship rights through August 1st.... the question is, does this mean the conference can retain the proceeds from those rights? That would be a question for the courts if OSU and WSU would seek to retain proceeds earned this year. I would expect OSU and WSU not to play hardball on this, but it sounds like they could IF keeping the "earnings" from this year is what that portion of the bylaws actually means. I remember Canzano mentioning this in his first article that talked about the 420 million number that's been argued about. I fully expect WSU and OSU ago press that case and go after all of them. Why shouldn’t they? Tired of the Mr and Mrs Nice Person tact. Those schools left us for dead. We are coming after them like Charles Bronson in “Death Wish”. Man do I hope you are right. Given past performance of most institutions of higher learning, not just OSU/ WSU - good luck. I do believe 100% this is the correct approach. We did not create this situation, they did. They disregarded us, the conference, the athletes and the fans. They do not give rat's behind about us or the remainder of the conference. Just like in other areas of our culture, they only cared about the money, and the top 1-2%. Disgusting. |
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Post by 93beav on Sept 12, 2023 8:32:57 GMT -8
Eh, does anybody have any experience with Freedom of Information Requests?
I've noticed that, for example with UA, you just need to submit a copy of a form electronically and there doesn't appear to be a cost. Would be interesting to ask for any correspondence around the PAC-2, although they may say it's part of pending/active litigation.
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 12, 2023 11:04:54 GMT -8
Big 12 is the best situation I think as if we both get an invite there will be 7 teams in our current footprint...less long trips UA/ASU/U of Prime/UU/BYU then add OSU/WSU then if a few years when we come back to our senses, we have a foundation for a new Pac-x Dunno about that... -IF- we were to get an invite, which I still don't think is coming, I'd think ACC. I guess because I'm still having a hard time believing that Calford would do such an idiotic move across the coast. And OSU/WSU don't have deep pocket donors or Calimony to cover the gap. But if they had a pile of media money. The reason I don't think it's occurring is because of the conversations around MWC and a scheduling alliance. I just don't see that happening without some reason behind it. LOL... yeah, why folks think this is now some type of leverage to get an invite?? What dirty laundry does the B10 or B12 have? The media companies finance the moves, the conferences simply invite and are middlemen. If there is dirty laundry it'd be with the teams leaving the Pac12 and would be the leverage for OSU and WSU to keep millions and possible sue for damages for multi-millions more, not to go join the B12 and get squat in compensation and have to split the Pac12 assets. Neither the B10 or B12 would be liable in any of it, nor do they really care about each invitees dirty laundry as there is plenty that has already existed over the years. I just do not understand the love affair some on this board have with a B12 invite when OSU was never wanted and now would "supposedly" only be wanted because of Pac12 invitees dirty laundry? And, to top it off such a fantasy invite would preclude OSU/WSU pocketing millions and letting the traitors share in that money and indeed help fund their transition. IMHO the best course of action (for far more reasons than there is negatives) is to merge under the Pac12 banner, fight/win to keep millions, maybe sue SC and UCLA under the "irreparable damages" clause of beginning the dismantling process (if it makes financial sense), excel in multiple sports in the new Pac12, and be in an outstanding position a few years down the road when the B10 (maybe some B12) traitors find that their moves weren't so well thought out. At that time who knows what the media landscape will be, but OSU and WSU could be in a strong bargaining position with the only truly West Coast conference and what it could ask from those wanting to rejoin. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 11:35:25 GMT -8
Dunno about that... -IF- we were to get an invite, which I still don't think is coming, I'd think ACC. I guess because I'm still having a hard time believing that Calford would do such an idiotic move across the coast. And OSU/WSU don't have deep pocket donors or Calimony to cover the gap. But if they had a pile of media money. The reason I don't think it's occurring is because of the conversations around MWC and a scheduling alliance. I just don't see that happening without some reason behind it. LOL... yeah, why folks think this is now some type of leverage to get an invite?? What dirty laundry does the B10 or B12 have? The media companies finance the moves, the conferences simply invite and are middlemen. If there is dirty laundry it'd be with the teams leaving the Pac12 and would be the leverage for OSU and WSU to keep millions and possible sue for damages for multi-millions more, not to go join the B12 and get squat in compensation and have to split the Pac12 assets. Neither the B10 or B12 would be liable in any of it, nor do they really care about each invitees dirty laundry as there is plenty that has already existed over the years. I just do not understand the love affair some on this board have with a B12 invite when OSU was never wanted and now would "supposedly" only be wanted because of Pac12 invitees dirty laundry? And, to top it off such a fantasy invite would preclude OSU/WSU pocketing millions and letting the traitors share in that money and indeed help fund their transition.IMHO the best course of action (for far more reasons than there is negatives) is to merge under the Pac12 banner, fight/win to keep millions, maybe sue SC and UCLA under the "irreparable damages" clause of beginning the dismantling process (if it makes financial sense), excel in multiple sports in the new Pac12, and be in an outstanding position a few years down the road when the B10 (maybe some B12) traitors find that their moves weren't so well thought out. At that time who knows what the media landscape will be, but OSU and WSU could be in a strong bargaining position with the only truly West Coast conference and what it could ask from those wanting to rejoin. This isn't personal. It's all about business. Specifically, TV money. I've already explained the ESPN pro rata deal with the Big 12 in other threads, so I'm not going to go into that again. Everyone -- and I mean everyone -- involved is looking out for their own financial interests. That includes OSU and WSU. It includes the MWC. Why would they want OSU and WSU to roll in and basically take over their conference? More money. IMO, if OSU and WSU try to use some of the assets to get into a power conference, it will be due to two main reasons: 1. They see a stronger chance of financial success down the road. 2. They've gotten a message from coaches and athletes in no uncertain terms that they want to continue to play in a power conference and not an expanded MWC. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 12, 2023 11:50:01 GMT -8
LOL... yeah, why folks think this is now some type of leverage to get an invite?? What dirty laundry does the B10 or B12 have? The media companies finance the moves, the conferences simply invite and are middlemen. If there is dirty laundry it'd be with the teams leaving the Pac12 and would be the leverage for OSU and WSU to keep millions and possible sue for damages for multi-millions more, not to go join the B12 and get squat in compensation and have to split the Pac12 assets. Neither the B10 or B12 would be liable in any of it, nor do they really care about each invitees dirty laundry as there is plenty that has already existed over the years. I just do not understand the love affair some on this board have with a B12 invite when OSU was never wanted and now would "supposedly" only be wanted because of Pac12 invitees dirty laundry? And, to top it off such a fantasy invite would preclude OSU/WSU pocketing millions and letting the traitors share in that money and indeed help fund their transition.IMHO the best course of action (for far more reasons than there is negatives) is to merge under the Pac12 banner, fight/win to keep millions, maybe sue SC and UCLA under the "irreparable damages" clause of beginning the dismantling process (if it makes financial sense), excel in multiple sports in the new Pac12, and be in an outstanding position a few years down the road when the B10 (maybe some B12) traitors find that their moves weren't so well thought out. At that time who knows what the media landscape will be, but OSU and WSU could be in a strong bargaining position with the only truly West Coast conference and what it could ask from those wanting to rejoin. This isn't personal. It's all about business. Specifically, TV money. I've already explained the ESPN pro rata deal with the Big 12 in other threads, so I'm not going to go into that again. Everyone -- and I mean everyone -- involved is looking out for their own financial interests. That includes OSU and WSU. It includes the MWC. Why would they want OSU and WSU to roll in and basically take over their conference? More money. IMO, if OSU and WSU try to use some of the assets to get into a power conference, it will be due to two main reasons: 1. They see a stronger chance of financial success down the road. 2. They've gotten a message from coaches and athletes that they want to continue to play in a power conference and not an expanded MWC. And... without rehashing... money will not buy a team into a conference. ESPN's pro rata deal does not mean more money for the conference unless OSU/WSU took miniscule amounts from that money! OSU can not take a reduced amount even IF the B12 was expanding... which they've repeatedly stated they are done. OSU and WSU's revenue from the Pac12 isn't a sure thing, but accepting a "fantasy" invite means there is no big payout to help grease the monetary wheels to be able to take a reduced B12 payout. The Pac12 assets would then be split 12 ways. OSU/WSU can't play the same game the other 10 are... join a new conference and want the Pac12 assets alone. Plus, I've seen no quotes from ANY player or coach about not liking a merger with the MWC. And, the P5/autonomous conference issue is not cut and dried. As I and several others have read and mentioned it takes a unanimous vote to change those NCAA bylaws. As long as the Pac12 exists it will not vote itself out and no vote can take place without the Pac12. So, even that issue is a mess. But, what is clear from the B12 itself... they are done. There are a ton of unknowns and maybes. But, Yormark was very adamant that the B12 is DONE. They had a vision of 14 or 16 teams and executed it. There is no reason or a smidge of evidence he/they have changed their stance. And, there is certainly no reason any "dirty laundry" would make them do so. If they took on ASU with all the crap happening there does anyone think some emails would change that? |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 12, 2023 11:56:53 GMT -8
What "dirty laundry" might the Big Ten and Big 12 have? That's what discovery is for. Should be a fascinating and informative deep-dive.
I think there's no question some of the eight schools that left in recent months were quietly negotiating to leave while professing public allegiance to the Pac-10, and that FOX aided and may have even encouraged UO and UW to bail at the last minute.
I too do not want the Big 12 or the Big Ten. No way do I want to align with schools that stabbed us in the back, or have our student/athletes going halfway or completely across the country for competition.
I would be totally happy - should discovery uncover some sort of obvious, actionable collusion and skullduggery by the networks, the conferences and our former conference brethren that could result in an anti-trust suit - with a settlement that includes WSU/OSU control of the Pac-12's future assets/intellectual property/branding; the retention of P5 conference status for however we decide to reconstitute the league, and the promise from the networks for a far more favorable TV deal the next time around.
With 12 berths in the new CFP, there is no reason the Pac-MWC should not have automatic berth status. It's a small price to pay. That's the easiest bone to be thrown in our direction.
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 12:11:19 GMT -8
This isn't personal. It's all about business. Specifically, TV money. I've already explained the ESPN pro rata deal with the Big 12 in other threads, so I'm not going to go into that again. Everyone -- and I mean everyone -- involved is looking out for their own financial interests. That includes OSU and WSU. It includes the MWC. Why would they want OSU and WSU to roll in and basically take over their conference? More money. IMO, if OSU and WSU try to use some of the assets to get into a power conference, it will be due to two main reasons: 1. They see a stronger chance of financial success down the road. 2. They've gotten a message from coaches and athletes that they want to continue to play in a power conference and not an expanded MWC. And... without rehashing... money will not buy a team into a conference. ESPN's pro rata deal does not mean more money for the conference unless OSU/WSU took miniscule amounts from that money! OSU can not take a reduced amount even IF the B12 was expanding... which they've repeatedly stated they are done. OSU and WSU's revenue from the Pac12 isn't a sure thing, but accepting a "fantasy" invite means there is no big payout to help grease the monetary wheels to be able to take a reduced B12 payout. The Pac12 assets would then be split 12 ways. OSU/WSU can't play the same game the other 10 are... join a new conference and want the Pac12 assets alone. Plus, I've seen no quotes from ANY player or coach about not liking a merger with the MWC. And, the P5/autonomous conference issue is not cut and dried. As I and several others have read and mentioned it takes a unanimous vote to change those NCAA bylaws. As long as the Pac12 exists it will not vote itself out and no vote can take place without the Pac12. So, even that issue is a mess. But, what is clear from the B12 itself... they are done. There are a ton of unknowns and maybes. But, Yormark was very adamant that the B12 is DONE. They had a vision of 14 or 16 teams and executed it. There is no reason or a smidge of evidence he/they have changed their stance. And, there is certainly no reason any "dirty laundry" would make them do so. If they took on ASU with all the crap happening there does anyone think some emails would change that? I know how you view Yormark's statement, but "right now, we’re done" hardly conveys an absolute in my opinion. I would think OSU and WSU would probably use some of the other (non-cash) assets as leverage. Just as they would to engineer a reverse merger with the MWC. As far as statements (pro or con) from coaches and/or players, I haven't seen any at all. I would suspect (just my opinion) that they (a vast majority) are not in favor of going to the MWC if there is any possibility at all of making a push to go to a power conference. Of course, if OSU and WSU wind up coming up short in getting control of the Pac, then they are almost certainly going to end up in the MWC. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 12, 2023 12:18:55 GMT -8
And... without rehashing... money will not buy a team into a conference. ESPN's pro rata deal does not mean more money for the conference unless OSU/WSU took miniscule amounts from that money! OSU can not take a reduced amount even IF the B12 was expanding... which they've repeatedly stated they are done. OSU and WSU's revenue from the Pac12 isn't a sure thing, but accepting a "fantasy" invite means there is no big payout to help grease the monetary wheels to be able to take a reduced B12 payout. The Pac12 assets would then be split 12 ways. OSU/WSU can't play the same game the other 10 are... join a new conference and want the Pac12 assets alone. Plus, I've seen no quotes from ANY player or coach about not liking a merger with the MWC. And, the P5/autonomous conference issue is not cut and dried. As I and several others have read and mentioned it takes a unanimous vote to change those NCAA bylaws. As long as the Pac12 exists it will not vote itself out and no vote can take place without the Pac12. So, even that issue is a mess. But, what is clear from the B12 itself... they are done. There are a ton of unknowns and maybes. But, Yormark was very adamant that the B12 is DONE. They had a vision of 14 or 16 teams and executed it. There is no reason or a smidge of evidence he/they have changed their stance. And, there is certainly no reason any "dirty laundry" would make them do so. If they took on ASU with all the crap happening there does anyone think some emails would change that? I know how you view Yormark's statement, but " right now, we’re done" hardly conveys an absolute in my opinion. I would think OSU and WSU would probably use some of the other (non-cash) assets as leverage. Just as they would to engineer a reverse merger with the MWC. As far as statements (pro or con) from coaches and/or players, I haven't seen any at all. I would suspect (just my opinion) that they (a vast majority) are not in favor of going to the MWC if there is any possibility at all of making a push to go to a power conference. Of course, if OSU and WSU wind up coming up short in getting control of the Pac, then they are almost certainly going to end up in the MWC. Is all that matters... OSU and WSU need to prep for right now. Plus as stated by another, in no way do I want OSU affiliated with the B12 or B10 and those teams that left. No more being the "little brother", please take us along on your coattails. Forge a new and highly successful path. And, even though I rarely pay attention to anything Oregon, I will be quite amused when they are fighting for the 4th, 5th, 6th B10 bowl berths, and paying huge travel budgets. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 12, 2023 12:42:28 GMT -8
I know how you view Yormark's statement, but " right now, we’re done" hardly conveys an absolute in my opinion. I would think OSU and WSU would probably use some of the other (non-cash) assets as leverage. Just as they would to engineer a reverse merger with the MWC. As far as statements (pro or con) from coaches and/or players, I haven't seen any at all. I would suspect (just my opinion) that they (a vast majority) are not in favor of going to the MWC if there is any possibility at all of making a push to go to a power conference. Of course, if OSU and WSU wind up coming up short in getting control of the Pac, then they are almost certainly going to end up in the MWC. Is all that matters... OSU and WSU need to prep for right now. Plus as stated by another, in no way do I want OSU affiliated with the B12 or B10 and those teams that left. No more being the "little brother", please take us along on your coattails. Forge a new and highly successful path. And, even though I rarely pay attention to anything Oregon, I will be quite amused when they are fighting for the 4th, 5th, 6th B10 bowl berths, and paying huge travel budgets. I certainly hope you're right if that's the road that OSU and WSU end up heading down. |
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