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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 4, 2023 20:17:12 GMT -8
Isn't that superior to probably 7 or 8 Pac-12 programs during that time? Everyone except Utah, Oregon and SC, and perhaps Washington? Having an elite baseball program is great, but I don't see any monetary payoff in it, compared to having an outstanding football program. You know, every team in the Pac-12, save California, has been ranked higher than #19 in a final CFP. California was last ranked that high back in 2006. And then Oregon State broke #1 California in Berkeley in 2007. And now they are leaving us, because they can't beat us. But I digress. Only five Pac-12 teams have not been ranked better than 20 twice in the final CFP: Arizona, Arizona State, California, Colorado, and Oregon State. Four Pac-12 teams have been ranked better than 25 four or more times: Oregon, USC, Utah, and Washington. Stanford has been ranked three times. UCLA and Wazzu have been ranked twice. Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Oregon State have been ranked once. And California has not been ranked since Oregon State wrecked Cal's program back in 2007. So, Boise being ranked in the CFP four times is better than eight Pac-12 teams over a corresponding span. Just as I said. |
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Post by jimbeav on Sept 4, 2023 20:18:08 GMT -8
Regardless of what happens, and there are so many possibilities, I wish people would stop using BSU as an example to hold up (I posted this previously, apologies for the re-post). Here is their record from 2014, the year the CFB playoffs started, to 2022: 2014-2022 12-2 9-4 10-3 11-3 10-3 12-2 5-2 (Covid) 7-5 10-4 For all of that, their highest CFB Final rank was 19, with a 20 and two 25's. Their PERCEIVED strength of schedule will never be enough to win over the committee. And now they are in the era of NIL and transfer portals. Could we do better? Sure. If we win at least 10 this year and next year we do the same, presuming our opponents are of decent quality, then maybe we get some household recognition. Our coaches are great, but they aren't going to stick around forever at low pay, and if we're winning 10 again, people are going to try and poach them. Doesn't mean we can't find cheaper coaches who are as good, but I'd rather keep the known quantity. Unless we have a chunk of spare change to get us through lean years, we're going to lose coaches and then maybe the players aren't as enamored with the program, who knows? At the opposite end of the spectrum, maybe we're like Gonzaga, but with football, where we're on the outside of the "system" but always seemingly in the mix. I actually feel like we'd have a better shot at becoming a really good basketball and baseball program if we took our seemingly sparse dollars and invested it in those teams. You only have to pay off 12. Isn't that superior to probably 7 or 8 Pac-12 programs during that time? Everyone except Utah, Oregon and SC, and perhaps Washington? Having an elite baseball program is great, but I don't see any monetary payoff in it, compared to having an outstanding football program. This attitude really pisses me off. F that sh. Seriously, anybody who doesn't consider it a major, major loss if our baseball program slides back into obscurity is just on a completely different page than me as a fan. I have felt 10x more joy, more pride, more excitement, and more enthusiasm from following our baseball program than I ever have from football, even the magical 2000 season. And THAT is what matters to me as a fan, not any "monetary payoff". And yeah, I get it, without that FB monetary payoff, baseball can't function either. But dammit, it's already bad enough to contemplate snoozing through a murderer's row of Wyoming, Utah St, and San Jose St every year in football and then hoping we're included in some committee's list. But if we have to also watch our baseball program be unable to crack the top-70 RPI because of our crap schedule, and not have any realistic hope of making it to Omaha....man, that is just too painful to bear for this fan. And the pain would be real. Likely painful enough that I would choose to direct my emotional energy elsewhere. Call me a bandwagon fan all you want, but the self-preservation factor is high with me here. If we end up in an MWC-like conference, I will follow along and try to look for the positives like so many here are doing. But I just can't do that right now. I'm all for Barnes holding out as long as he possibly can and trying to complete that hail mary that will save us from a G5 disaster. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 4, 2023 20:20:37 GMT -8
This is what I don't understand. Why are all schools responsible for paying back the media money to whoever the carrier was but only osu and wazoo are the only ones eligible for future payouts by the ncaa? Aren't the future payouts based ona what the pac12 did in prior years when all the schools were members? Because that's the way the pickle squirts. You're out of the conference, you don't get any share of future conference revenue. The new Big Ten, ACC and Big 12 schools will share in those conferences NCAA basketball revenues, even though they did nothing to earn them. Can't have it both ways. Certain $ are conference based, not paid to schools themselves. As mentioned on this site by multiple posters, multiple times. The incoming B10, B12 teams agreed to reduced shares. No details of any contracts have been released that I've heard. But, some believe that the reduced revenue for a set # of years involves $ earned by the conference previous to the new teams joining. Who knows, but it makes a bit of sense. And, why legal issues may loom over the Pac12 revenues. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 4, 2023 20:22:49 GMT -8
Isn't that superior to probably 7 or 8 Pac-12 programs during that time? Everyone except Utah, Oregon and SC, and perhaps Washington? Having an elite baseball program is great, but I don't see any monetary payoff in it, compared to having an outstanding football program. This attitude really pisses me off. F that sh. Seriously, anybody who doesn't consider it a major, major loss if our baseball program slides back into obscurity is just on a completely different page than me as a fan. I have felt 10x more joy, more pride, more excitement, and more enthusiasm from following our baseball program than I ever have from football, even the magical 2000 season. And THAT is what matters to me as a fan, not any "monetary payoff". And yeah, I get it, without that FB monetary payoff, baseball can't function either. But dammit, it's already bad enough to contemplate snoozing through a murderer's row of Wyoming, Utah St, and San Jose St every year in football and then hoping we're included in some committee's list. But if we have to also watch our baseball program be unable to crack the top-70 RPI because of our crap schedule, and not have any realistic hope of making it to Omaha....man, that is just too painful to bear for this fan. And the pain would be real. Likely painful enough that I would choose to direct my emotional energy elsewhere. Call me a bandwagon fan all you want, but the self-preservation factor is high with me here. If we end up in an MWC-like conference, I will follow along and try to look for the positives like so many here are doing. But I just can't do that right now. I'm all for Barnes holding out as long as he possibly can and trying to complete that hail mary that will save us from a G5 disaster. Try to follow along... you already stated it... no football conference no chance for continued baseball success. Baseball is not the gravy train no matter how much pride is gives you or the rest of Beaver Nation. No conference decision for the overall good of the AD will ever be baseball based. And, yes... you described a bandwagon fan. But, you do you. No one is forcing you to accept reality or continue your emotional or financial support. There is plenty of the rest of us that will hang with OSU... thru thick or thin. |
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Post by ag87 on Sept 5, 2023 1:44:53 GMT -8
And this is a possibility: 1000 or so Beaver fans show up at a conference game in San Jose, Fresno, or San Diego. That forces a light bulb in that institution to go off, and they say, let's compete.
Related to this, Wash, uo, usc, UCLA, and cal will not recruit as well now.
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Post by 93beav on Sept 6, 2023 14:03:11 GMT -8
Isn't that superior to probably 7 or 8 Pac-12 programs during that time? Everyone except Utah, Oregon and SC, and perhaps Washington? Having an elite baseball program is great, but I don't see any monetary payoff in it, compared to having an outstanding football program. This attitude really pisses me off. F that sh. Seriously, anybody who doesn't consider it a major, major loss if our baseball program slides back into obscurity is just on a completely different page than me as a fan. I have felt 10x more joy, more pride, more excitement, and more enthusiasm from following our baseball program than I ever have from football, even the magical 2000 season. And THAT is what matters to me as a fan, not any "monetary payoff". And yeah, I get it, without that FB monetary payoff, baseball can't function either. But dammit, it's already bad enough to contemplate snoozing through a murderer's row of Wyoming, Utah St, and San Jose St every year in football and then hoping we're included in some committee's list. But if we have to also watch our baseball program be unable to crack the top-70 RPI because of our crap schedule, and not have any realistic hope of making it to Omaha....man, that is just too painful to bear for this fan. And the pain would be real. Likely painful enough that I would choose to direct my emotional energy elsewhere. Call me a bandwagon fan all you want, but the self-preservation factor is high with me here. If we end up in an MWC-like conference, I will follow along and try to look for the positives like so many here are doing. But I just can't do that right now. I'm all for Barnes holding out as long as he possibly can and trying to complete that hail mary that will save us from a G5 disaster. I think what many fans of other schools - particularly G5 schools - don't understand is that we've had it pretty good in some other non-football sports (like baseball or women's basketball or lately soccer) and it's hard to imagine all of them being fully supported if the money goes away. It isn't "just football" at OSU. It doesn't mean they won't compete, it just may be at a different level. And essentially many OSU fans right now are going through the grieving process - despite the sanctimonious rambling and labeling by unspecified people - and is a very normal activity. I really do think football should have two leagues and just split away one tier so that we don't get tired year after year of chasing down whatever money or table scraps we can get. But it's just hard to envision baseball or other sports being split like that. I'd recommend for the next year or so, if you do make donations to OSU, to find a way to make a donation that goes to the baseball team and directly help them out. See how things play out over the next year and if it still doesn't look good, or good enough, redirect your energies. |
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Post by Mike84 on Sept 6, 2023 14:48:25 GMT -8
Isn't that superior to probably 7 or 8 Pac-12 programs during that time? Everyone except Utah, Oregon and SC, and perhaps Washington? Having an elite baseball program is great, but I don't see any monetary payoff in it, compared to having an outstanding football program. This attitude really pisses me off. F that sh. Seriously, anybody who doesn't consider it a major, major loss if our baseball program slides back into obscurity is just on a completely different page than me as a fan. I have felt 10x more joy, more pride, more excitement, and more enthusiasm from following our baseball program than I ever have from football, even the magical 2000 season. And THAT is what matters to me as a fan, not any "monetary payoff". And yeah, I get it, without that FB monetary payoff, baseball can't function either. But dammit, it's already bad enough to contemplate snoozing through a murderer's row of Wyoming, Utah St, and San Jose St every year in football and then hoping we're included in some committee's list. But if we have to also watch our baseball program be unable to crack the top-70 RPI because of our crap schedule, and not have any realistic hope of making it to Omaha....man, that is just too painful to bear for this fan. And the pain would be real. Likely painful enough that I would choose to direct my emotional energy elsewhere. Call me a bandwagon fan all you want, but the self-preservation factor is high with me here. If we end up in an MWC-like conference, I will follow along and try to look for the positives like so many here are doing. But I just can't do that right now. I'm all for Barnes holding out as long as he possibly can and trying to complete that hail mary that will save us from a G5 disaster. I'm a fan of trying to "hold out", if that means we have more time to fully understand the Pac-12 assets (and defend them from being taken by any of the departing schools), more time to get the media options figured out (and possibly add new carriers), and more time to see just how big of a disaster it will be for the Pac-12 teams moving to the Big-10 and Big-12, as long as we come up with money in the meantime to keep our coaches and can schedule effectively in the meantime. For football, as far as getting into the playoff, G5 might actually be the BEST way to go. It would not be up to "some committee", as long as at least one G5 conference champ is always included (which probably needs to be the case to avoid a lawsuit). But it doesn't feel like we could keep our coaches in the long term on a G5 budget. I hear what you are saying about baseball and the very poor RPI that would accompany being in the MWC, but I can't agree with, say, joining a P4/5 conference for no money, becoming completely unable to compete in that conference in football (and possibly in baseball too), just to keep the baseball RPI up. And I *really* would like to find a way to keep our conference (whatever it is), somewhat regional. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 6, 2023 15:07:41 GMT -8
I just do not really see arguing for a 2 tiered football setup where the top 4-5 conferences have their own championship and every other FBS team has a separate 2nd level championship, when the planned playoff system allows for G5 teams to get in to THE BIG game. A two tierd system would ensue no G5 or lower team could ever be THE champion, or even have a shot at it.
Oooohhh, there's more opportunities for an extra school to be "champions", even though it's not THE championship. Perhaps they should just eliminate the playoffs and give every bowl team a participation trophy... but that would leave out non-bowl teams.
I think the planned playoffs might be tweaked some, maybe go to 16 spots, but it already seems more inclusive than the 4 team playoff system. There's no exact right system in my book.
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 6, 2023 15:22:02 GMT -8
I just do not really see arguing for a 2 tiered football setup where the top 4-5 conferences have their own championship and every other FBS team has a separate 2nd level championship, when the planned playoff system allows for G5 teams to get in to THE BIG game. A two tierd system would ensue no G5 or lower team could ever be THE champion, or even have a shot at it. Oooohhh, there's more opportunities for an extra school to be "champions", even though it's not THE championship. Perhaps they should just eliminate the playoffs and give every bowl team a participation trophy... but that would leave out non-bowl teams. I think the planned playoffs might be tweaked some, maybe go to 16 spots, but it already seems more inclusive than the 4 team playoff system. There's no exact right system in my book. That's why if you have a tiered system, you would need to have a relegation system like European Soccer. The top teams from the lower division move up and the bottom teams from the upper division move down. That would at least give the lower tier teams some hope to move up with the big boys. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 6, 2023 15:35:31 GMT -8
I just do not really see arguing for a 2 tiered football setup where the top 4-5 conferences have their own championship and every other FBS team has a separate 2nd level championship, when the planned playoff system allows for G5 teams to get in to THE BIG game. A two tierd system would ensue no G5 or lower team could ever be THE champion, or even have a shot at it. Oooohhh, there's more opportunities for an extra school to be "champions", even though it's not THE championship. Perhaps they should just eliminate the playoffs and give every bowl team a participation trophy... but that would leave out non-bowl teams. I think the planned playoffs might be tweaked some, maybe go to 16 spots, but it already seems more inclusive than the 4 team playoff system. There's no exact right system in my book. That's why if you have a tiered system, you would need to have a relegation system like European Soccer. The top teams from the lower division move up and the bottom teams from the upper division move down. That would at least give the lower tier teams some hope to move up with the big boys. Ok, I think I get it. Essentially eliminate conferences and base it teams and their year end ranking? We'd likely be eligible for at least the next couple of years at least. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 6, 2023 15:46:08 GMT -8
That's why if you have a tiered system, you would need to have a relegation system like European Soccer. The top teams from the lower division move up and the bottom teams from the upper division move down. That would at least give the lower tier teams some hope to move up with the big boys. Ok, I think I get it. Essentially eliminate conferences and base it teams and their year end ranking? We'd likely be eligible for at least the next couple of years at least. Yes, but you need the NCAA or another entity to take the whole thing over and have different media $$ and packages based on what level your team was in. It's a long shot because all of the networks and the governing body would have to work together to make it happen. |
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Post by mbabeav on Sept 6, 2023 17:22:52 GMT -8
Not going to work - how many people are eyes on to watch those commercials is all that matters to the networks. Altruism is hardly in their vocabulary.
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Post by korculabeav on Sept 6, 2023 18:23:12 GMT -8
Interesting the ADs of both WSU and OSU have been silent since the ACC announcement. Kliavkoff is apparently under a rock still hungover from epically showing his incompetence leading the conference to its doom. The silence speaks very loudly. There is no path ahead except the MWC. Forget “stalling” to get some loophole monster pay day from Pac 12 assets or revenue sharing that doesn’t exist.
Time to move on and end the uncertainty.
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2023 22:04:39 GMT -8
Interesting the ADs of both WSU and OSU have been silent since the ACC announcement. Kliavkoff is apparently under a rock still hungover from epically showing his incompetence leading the conference to its doom. The silence speaks very loudly. There is no path ahead except the MWC. Forget “stalling” to get some loophole monster pay day from Pac 12 assets or revenue sharing that doesn’t exist. Time to move on and end the uncertainty. If going to the MWC was the only option to be sorted through then OSU would have already announced it. Barnes is working on options. Nothing has been decided yet and won't be until OSU has determined it's best move. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 6, 2023 22:12:44 GMT -8
Ok, I think I get it. Essentially eliminate conferences and base it teams and their year end ranking? We'd likely be eligible for at least the next couple of years at least. Yes, but you need the NCAA or another entity to take the whole thing over and have different media $$ and packages based on what level your team was in. It's a long shot because all of the networks and the governing body would have to work together to make it happen. Nonstarter. There is no way that the haves would ever agree to it. Even in European soccer, the haves are making moves to protect their interests. The changes to the Champions League to limit smaller associations' access. There is just no way that anything like that, happens, unless something shocking happens in beforehand. All of the sports are tied together because of Title IX. Only universities with hundreds of millions of dollars to burn, like Notre Dame, can do anything other than play within the current framework. |
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