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Post by nuclearbeaver on Jun 26, 2023 15:39:11 GMT -8
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Post by spudbeaver on Jun 26, 2023 15:49:06 GMT -8
No, that’s not how it works. You made the statement, I merely asked for proof. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jun 26, 2023 15:49:30 GMT -8
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Post by sparty on Jul 3, 2023 5:48:26 GMT -8
Many in the other 37% of Oregon would not stand in their way. Thankfully people of good sense and goodwill do not flippantly think this way. Where do you think bunches and bunches of kids from those counties go to college? Losing those counties would be devastating to OSU. Out of state tuition? |
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Post by beavheart on Jul 3, 2023 11:34:03 GMT -8
I just want to say that as an Oregonian, and someone who drives all over our beautiful state that I absolutely hate this stupid Greater Idaho idea. I love all parts of our state, and it's geographic AND cultural diversity. I also still feel like I'm in Oregon when I'm in KFalls, or Pendleton, or Coos Bay, or Madras. Not some Idaho-light.
I think a bunch of political grievance, combined with a heightened sense of doom that has been created largely by media with a financial stake in doing so is behind all of this. Don't fall for it Eastern Oregon! Western Oregon needs you. Moving borders won't solve sheet, and whatever is behind this notion that cultural monochrome will solve anything is complete BS. Our diversity is our strongest asset.
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Post by beaverdude on Jul 6, 2023 12:30:26 GMT -8
Moving borders won't solve sheet, and whatever is behind this notion that cultural monochrome will solve anything is complete BS. Our diversity is our strongest asset. It's not cultural monochrome driving this move, its the current political monochrome. |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Jul 8, 2023 5:19:32 GMT -8
No, that’s not how it works. You made the statement, I merely asked for proof. Are you not implying that people are moving for ideological reasons by taking the counter position? I'm curious, what evidence is there that people are moving for ideology as a primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator. I can't find anything that shows that except anecdotal. |
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Post by beaver55to7 on Jul 8, 2023 7:35:32 GMT -8
No, that’s not how it works. You made the statement, I merely asked for proof. Are you not implying that people are moving for ideological reasons by taking the counter position? I'm curious, what evidence is there that people are moving for ideology as a primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator. I can't find anything that shows that except anecdotal. That would be very unpopular research. I can tell you from first hand experience research that will lead to unpopular ideological outcomes is rarely done, especially when the only significant use for it is to ‘win’ internet arguments. If people are moving because of local election results, nothing can be done about that, or should be done about that, so what is the point of researching it? |
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jul 8, 2023 7:56:03 GMT -8
No, that’s not how it works. You made the statement, I merely asked for proof. Are you not implying that people are moving for ideological reasons by taking the counter position? I'm curious, what evidence is there that people are moving for ideology as a primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator. I can't find anything that shows that except anecdotal. I have no dog in this fight...but I not only know several people who have moved to Idaho primarily for ideological reasons...I meet them weekly leaving California for ideological reasons. I'll add that what Ive learned from some of these people is that they find out quickly the grass isn't always greener. They tend to be people who bitch about everything anyway. So all that money they made in California and home price appreciation and great weather might actually be better than the brutal winter or extreme heat and declining home prices and lower wage jobs in NV. But traffic and Gavin Newsom.... But what I really came here to ask is who told Dan Patrick Boise State us on the Pac 12s radar? |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Jul 8, 2023 8:09:33 GMT -8
Are you not implying that people are moving for ideological reasons by taking the counter position? I'm curious, what evidence is there that people are moving for ideology as a primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator. I can't find anything that shows that except anecdotal. That would be very unpopular research. I can tell you from first hand experience research that will lead to unpopular ideological outcomes is rarely done, especially when the only significant use for it is to ‘win’ internet arguments. If people are moving because of local election results, nothing can be done about that, or should be done about that, so what is the point of researching it? The census is the best data set for stuff like this. Dug into it further and their isn't a category that's realistically ideology/culture. Be interested if anyone finds a decent survey source. Not trying to win internet battle, I'm just curious how much of a factor it is. |
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Post by irimi on Jul 8, 2023 9:54:38 GMT -8
Thankfully people of good sense and goodwill do not flippantly think this way. Where do you think bunches and bunches of kids from those counties go to college? Losing those counties would be devastating to OSU. The "Greater Idaho" movement consists of Baker, Grant, Harney, Jefferson, Klamath, Lake, Malheur, Morrow, Sherman, Union, Wallowa and Wheeler counties. Here is the county-by-county enrollment for spring, 2023, with GO counties bolded: Baker 23
Benton 1251 Clackamas 2035 Clatsop 121 Columbia 152 Coos 148 Crook 41 Curry 45 Deschutes 921 Douglas 234 Gilliam 10 Grant 7
Harney 12
Hood River 141 Jackson 530 Jefferson 48
Josephine 159 Klamath 137
Lake 27Lane 1267 Lincoln 176 Linn 642 Malheur 63
Marion 1215 Morrow 30
Multnomah 2178 Polk 436 Sherman 6
Tillamook 84 Umatilla 137 Union 47
Wallowa 13
Wasco 70 Washington 3194 Wheeler 1
Yamhill 345 Total of 385 students. Not all would leave OSU, as not everyone thinks like their parents. Of course I don't want these counties leaving Oregon, and I'm not even all that sure Idaho wants them. But the impact on OSU would not be that significant. I'm assuming Klamath Couty's numbers are so much higher that the other rural counties because there are a lot of kids from Oregon Tech employees there and children of college grads/employees generally go to college at a high rate. Are those numbers accurate? I knew a handful of Beavs from Baker back when I went to school when enrollment was much lower. And I didn’t have a huge circle of friends. So I’m surprised. Has Baker not grown in thirty years? |
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Post by irimi on Jul 8, 2023 10:05:56 GMT -8
In my opinion, changing state lines due to political conflict is childish and short-sighted. Political power changes. Oregon used to elect Republican governors, and there may come a time that Idaho elects a string of Democrats. Then what do you do? Try to go back to Oregon? It’s silly.
Unfortunately, these United States are united in very little. We need either more political parties, so that everything isn’t so black and white, or some cause to bring us all together. Unfortunately, those causes usually involve war.
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rob85
Freshman
Posts: 309 
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Post by rob85 on Jul 8, 2023 12:15:16 GMT -8
This country will never be unified. That is a pipe dream.
I have two friends of 10+ years who sit on the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. Both are college educated, one is a software test engineer, the other a branch manager of a library. Really nice people until politics comes up, and increasingly, everything is political.
For all their political differences, they share the same behavioral traits. They live in their little bubbles of misinformation and they will resist any suggestion that they might to fact check their views. Because the other side tells nothing but lies. Both only spend time with people of the same views. The problem always lies with "those people" on the opposite side. Both use the term "those people". When offered a chance to break bread and talk with "those people" they refused, because you can't talk with those people. It NEVER occurs to them that they themselves might be a problem.
Somewhere along the the line, they got so emotionally butt-hurt over something that they abandoned any thought of rational behavior and now just overreact to everything they hear. If no one talks or listens, nothing can change.
I'm a registered non-partisan voter and I hate politics. It brings out the worst the worst in people. That noise is now turned to 11 in the US. Has been for a while. I don't see how it changes.
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Post by irimi on Jul 8, 2023 13:00:11 GMT -8
This country will never be unified. That is a pipe dream. I have two friends of 10+ years who sit on the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. Both are college educated, one is a software test engineer, the other a branch manager of a library. Really nice people until politics comes up, and increasingly, everything is political. For all their political differences, they share the same behavioral traits. They live in their little bubbles of misinformation and they will resist any suggestion that they might to fact check their views. Because the other side tells nothing but lies. Both only spend time with people of the same views. The problem always lies with "those people" on the opposite side. Both use the term "those people". When offered a chance to break bread and talk with "those people" they refused, because you can't talk with those people. It NEVER occurs to them that they themselves might be a problem. Somewhere along the the line, they got so emotionally butt-hurt over something that they abandoned any thought of rational behavior and now just overreact to everything they hear. If no one talks or listens, nothing can change. I'm a registered non-partisan voter and I hate politics. It brings out the worst the worst in people. That noise is now turned to 11 in the US. Has been for a while. I don't see how it changes. You are probably right. So perhaps Lincoln merely delayed the inevitable. Perhaps it is time to end the Union and let new countries emerge. That’s stupid, right? Lots of folks in Texas, for example, wouldn’t want to leave the Union. Same thing with greater Idaho. We can’t go creating lines based upon political ideas. We have a Democracy. Perhaps it needs tweaking but “of the people, by the people, and for the people” still works and needs to be forefront in the minds of our politicians. Too many are of the money, by the money, and for the money. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 8, 2023 20:40:14 GMT -8
This country will never be unified. That is a pipe dream. I have two friends of 10+ years who sit on the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. Both are college educated, one is a software test engineer, the other a branch manager of a library. Really nice people until politics comes up, and increasingly, everything is political. For all their political differences, they share the same behavioral traits. They live in their little bubbles of misinformation and they will resist any suggestion that they might to fact check their views. Because the other side tells nothing but lies. Both only spend time with people of the same views. The problem always lies with "those people" on the opposite side. Both use the term "those people". When offered a chance to break bread and talk with "those people" they refused, because you can't talk with those people. It NEVER occurs to them that they themselves might be a problem. Somewhere along the the line, they got so emotionally butt-hurt over something that they abandoned any thought of rational behavior and now just overreact to everything they hear. If no one talks or listens, nothing can change. I'm a registered non-partisan voter and I hate politics. It brings out the worst the worst in people. That noise is now turned to 11 in the US. Has been for a while. I don't see how it changes. Entropy. Everything falls into disorder. The Union always unifies, when external forces compel it to. The devil you know is always better than the devil that you do not. However, with no external existential devils, you tend to attack the other side. The last 20+ years, there are no existential external threats. When is the last time that that could truly be said? A lot of entropy builds up and keeps building. No, Lincoln was right. Hamilton was right. Benjamin Franklin was right. John Quincy Adams was right. Andrew Jackson was right. Ulysses S. Grant was right. The United States is stronger together. God bless America! |
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