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Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 25, 2022 16:49:20 GMT -8
MBB is a non-revenue producing sport. How much are they supposed to dump into it? The easy part is firing WT. No problem. The hard part is finding a HC who can win the way some here expect. Not sure if it can be realistically be done. Winning season Make the NCAA every other year Winning Pac12 conference record every year Recruit 4 and 5 star kids Good luck! Basketball usually makes revenue in the thousands. Imagine if we sold tickets. |
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osubeaver2018
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 25, 2022 18:02:54 GMT -8
MBB is a non-revenue producing sport. How much are they supposed to dump into it? The easy part is firing WT. No problem. The hard part is finding a HC who can win the way some here expect. Not sure if it can be realistically be done. Winning season Make the NCAA every other year Winning Pac12 conference record every year Recruit 4 and 5 star kids Good luck! Basketball makes money at most (if not all) Power 6 schools if nothing else than for the TV money and NCAA tournament revenue. So yes, putting more money into it would be beneficial if we were able to actually sell tickets to games and draw better TV slots for our games. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 25, 2022 19:02:55 GMT -8
Your definition of career suicide and mine must differ.
Jimmy Anderson was never going to coach anywhere after OSU anyways, he was old.
Eddie Payne coached Division II/Division I for another 20 years after leaving OSU. He got a gym named in his honor.
McKay had success at New Mexico and Liberty after leaving OSU. He coached both teams to the NCAA tournament and is still coaching.
Jay and Craig never were head coaches again. Jay assisted at Cal. I don't think there is any doubt Craig could have been a head coach again, but chose not to, worked in the NBA and now for the ABCA.
Except for Jimmy, who retired, none of our previous coaches committed "career suicide" by working at OSU.
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babeav
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Post by babeav on Dec 25, 2022 19:36:23 GMT -8
Well…..he’s tall.
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Post by speakthetruth on Dec 25, 2022 19:48:17 GMT -8
If getting paid 1 to 3 million a year for 5 or So years is career suicide then sign me up.
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Post by beaverology on Dec 25, 2022 20:47:41 GMT -8
So, 3 outta the 5 (Jimmy, Jay and Craig) were never head coaches again.
Eddie got fired and was banished to Division II.
Ritchie had 2 bad years at OSU, saw he was gonna get fired, and took a demotion to New Mexico in the Mountain West. What kind of job makes a coach do that?
I can see why a coach would be apprehensive about accepting the OSU job.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 25, 2022 21:07:12 GMT -8
Again, your definition of career suicide is different than mine. Being a college head coach for more than 20 years after leaving OSU, which Payne and McKay were, is hardly career suicide.
Ritchie had 2 bad years at OSU, saw he was gonna get fired, and took a demotion to New Mexico in the Mountain West. What kind of job makes a coach do that?
Do you even know anything about UNM's basketball history? Ever heard of the Pit? UNM played in the NCAAs in 1991, 93, 94, 96, 97, 98 and 99, and in the NIT in 2000-02. Demotion? It was a much-higher profile job than OSU, and he undoubtedly got a raise.
I don't think many coaches would be apprehensive about taking a job that probably would pay upwards of $1.5 million a year.
We disagree. No big deal.
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 25, 2022 23:09:04 GMT -8
Have a consistently competitive team in the PAC 12. 2020-2021 was a stack of miracles and it was awesome. A great run doesn't mean we're consistent and competitive. We shouldn't have to run the table in the tourney to get in. We also shouldn't follow up that run with the worst season in history and then a likely sub 500 season. He should be building on the momentum to increase the programs baseline. No I want to be the team that fires a mediocre coach the year after the tournament when he went 3-28. His best season in 8 was 20 wins. If we find that good enough then we should be able to attract half ass coaching for decades to come. Tinkle's Pac-12 finishes: 7, 6, 12, 8, 4, 6, 1, 12 Consistently competitive team in the Pac-12. Disingenuous, dishonest, or uninformed to assert otherwise. A great run may not mean that we are consistent and competitive, but it clearly shows that we are competitive in an up Pac-12, too. The bad has been very bad, but I would trade 3-4 straight up atrocious years for a Pac-12 Championship, an Elite Eight run, and two NCAA Tournament appearances in a heartbeat. Great deal! Momentum is nonsense mumbo jumbo. Oregon State is not good enough to reload every year like baseball. You build, you have your great season, and you may have a atrocious year every five years. But as long as it is only every 4-5 years, it is tolerable. We start having them closer together or not seeing those postseason appearances every five years, you start approaching a point. Until then, I just disagree. Disingenuous or dishonest? What would you call saying Oregon State finished 6th in 2019-20 and 1st in 2020-21 when they finished T-8th and T-6th. We all know the Beavers won the conference tournament in 2020-21, so why use the conference regular season finish every season except that one. It really doesn’t help your argument when you play fast and loose like that. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 26, 2022 9:31:36 GMT -8
Tinkle's Pac-12 finishes: 7, 6, 12, 8, 4, 6, 1, 12 Consistently competitive team in the Pac-12. Disingenuous, dishonest, or uninformed to assert otherwise. A great run may not mean that we are consistent and competitive, but it clearly shows that we are competitive in an up Pac-12, too. The bad has been very bad, but I would trade 3-4 straight up atrocious years for a Pac-12 Championship, an Elite Eight run, and two NCAA Tournament appearances in a heartbeat. Great deal! Momentum is nonsense mumbo jumbo. Oregon State is not good enough to reload every year like baseball. You build, you have your great season, and you may have a atrocious year every five years. But as long as it is only every 4-5 years, it is tolerable. We start having them closer together or not seeing those postseason appearances every five years, you start approaching a point. Until then, I just disagree. Disingenuous or dishonest? What would you call saying Oregon State finished 6th in 2019-20 and 1st in 2020-21 when they finished T-8th and T-6th. We all know the Beavers won the conference tournament in 2020-21, so why use the conference regular season finish every season except that one. It really doesn’t help your argument when you play fast and loose like that. I know that there is a counter-argument, and you made it. I put up the best argument first, so you and nuclear could pick at it. My primary argument is that most seasons, Oregon State is "consistently competitive," contrary to any assertion made by nuclear. You seem to be deep into basketball, Ohio, so I enjoy your posts. And nuclear has points. But the data does not seem to support several of nuclear's more outlandish points. Tinkle is an above average coach at a school with below average support. Absent a huge infusion of cash into the program or a shakeup in the AD's office, I do not see upgrading at head coach to be probable. Nuclear would have probably been on the fire George Washington bus during the Revolutionary War. Charles Lee! Brilliant! |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 26, 2022 9:44:42 GMT -8
I would label the current Beaver MBB team as 'consistently competitive'. We have the youngest team in college basketball and we've taken Duke and USC down to the last minute. We beat UW. Given the advantages those programs have over us, I think that's not only impressive, but acceptable.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 26, 2022 10:06:27 GMT -8
Disingenuous or dishonest? What would you call saying Oregon State finished 6th in 2019-20 and 1st in 2020-21 when they finished T-8th and T-6th. We all know the Beavers won the conference tournament in 2020-21, so why use the conference regular season finish every season except that one. It really doesn’t help your argument when you play fast and loose like that. I know that there is a counter-argument, and you made it. I put up the best argument first, so you and nuclear could pick at it. My primary argument is that most seasons, Oregon State is "consistently competitive," contrary to any assertion made by nuclear. You seem to be deep into basketball, Ohio, so I enjoy your posts. And nuclear has points. But the data does not seem to support several of nuclear's more outlandish points. Tinkle is an above average coach at a school with below average support. Absent a huge infusion of cash into the program or a shakeup in the AD's office, I do not see upgrading at head coach to be probable. Nuclear would have probably been on the fire George Washington bus during the Revolutionary War. Charles Lee! Brilliant! probably, he was terrible tell after Valley Forge then he threaded a needle, got a few victories and mostly waited the British out. That was also warfare and not college basketball You must be a lawyer. Say I'm disingenuous while putting out disingenuous data and arguement then acting like it was all a master plan when it was a silly arguement. Hyperbole, hearsay, objection! Using hollow compliments to Ohio that make it sound like he is normally knowledgeable but seems to be staying since he challenged you. Implying I don't know basketball cause I disagree. Gross We should invest the cash. There's plenty of coaches getting paid 2.5-3 million a year that get better results than WT. Get a good coach and upgrade the recruiting budget to 7-9 million a year. Winning 20+ games a year will cover the cost. |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 26, 2022 10:17:08 GMT -8
"We should invest the cash."
First, look at the current buyout for WT. OSU is on the hook for all of it.
2022-23: $2,600,000
2023-24: $2,700,000
2024-25: $2,800,000
2025-26: $2,900,000
2026-27: $3,000,000
Second, Who's gonna pay for that? Nuke, you gonna write a check? Are you gonna invest the cash? We know Scott Barnes won't, especially with a young team that's playing hard, all the way to the last minute.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 26, 2022 10:36:42 GMT -8
"We should invest the cash." First, look at the current buyout for WT. OSU is on the hook for all of it. 2022-23: $2,600,000 2023-24: $2,700,000 2024-25: $2,800,000 2025-26: $2,900,000 2026-27: $3,000,000 Second, Who's gonna pay for that? Nuke, you gonna write a check? Are you gonna invest the cash? We know Scott Barnes won't, especially with a young team that's playing hard, all the way to the last minute. why the hell did they do another Anderson Contract. Welp then we better invest in recruiting and enjoy another 5 years of .500 being a good year |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 26, 2022 10:37:41 GMT -8
I know that there is a counter-argument, and you made it. I put up the best argument first, so you and nuclear could pick at it. My primary argument is that most seasons, Oregon State is "consistently competitive," contrary to any assertion made by nuclear. You seem to be deep into basketball, Ohio, so I enjoy your posts. And nuclear has points. But the data does not seem to support several of nuclear's more outlandish points. Tinkle is an above average coach at a school with below average support. Absent a huge infusion of cash into the program or a shakeup in the AD's office, I do not see upgrading at head coach to be probable. Nuclear would have probably been on the fire George Washington bus during the Revolutionary War. Charles Lee! Brilliant! probably, he was terrible tell after Valley Forge then he threaded a needle, got a few victories and mostly waited the British out. That was also warfare and not college basketball You must be a lawyer. Say I'm disingenuous while putting out disingenuous data and arguement then acting like it was all a master plan when it was a silly arguement. Hyperbole, hearsay, objection! Using hollow compliments to Ohio that make it sound like he is normally knowledgeable but seems to be staying since he challenged you. Implying I don't know basketball cause I disagree. Gross We should invest the cash. There's plenty of coaches getting paid 2.5-3 million a year that get better results than WT. Get a good coach and upgrade the recruiting budget to 7-9 million a year. Winning 20+ games a year will cover the cost. Your last paragraph is your best. Winning 20+ games a year is next-to-impossible without oil oligarch-level funding, though. Get that financing plan and a new coach into place, though, and I am on board. First paragraph: Washington's strategy was impeccable. It can be compared and contrasted to the Duke of Wellington's defense of the Iberian Peninsula (great strategy), Russia's defense in Napoleon's 1812 Invasion (great strategy), General Houston's defense of Texas during the Texas War of Independence (great strategy), General Santa Anna's aggressive defense of Mexico (poor strategy), the aggressive strategy employed by Davis and Lee in the Civil War, and the American strategy after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Heck, you can still see it in the Ukrainian defense against Russia. Discretion is the better part of valor. Second paragraph: My argument is not disingenuous. It is the best argument that I believe that I can make with a straight face, as they say in law. My argument is not counter-factual. Ohio can and did point out the best counter-argument, pointing out that I am amplifying some facts at the expense of others, which is great. Good on him. I don't argue that you don't know basketball nuclear. I just find your 30,000-foot argument to be contrary to the evidence, which implies that any sub-arguments are similarly ill-founded. An overarching argument based on a foundation built of solid sub-arguments is best. It is much more difficult to combat. Here, I can cut off the head, and the rest of the snake dies with it. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 26, 2022 10:40:15 GMT -8
"We should invest the cash." First, look at the current buyout for WT. OSU is on the hook for all of it. 2022-23: $2,600,000 2023-24: $2,700,000 2024-25: $2,800,000 2025-26: $2,900,000 2026-27: $3,000,000 Second, Who's gonna pay for that? Nuke, you gonna write a check? Are you gonna invest the cash? We know Scott Barnes won't, especially with a young team that's playing hard, all the way to the last minute. why the hell did they do another Anderson Contract. Welp then we better invest in recruiting and enjoy another 5 years of .500 being a good year Tinkle has finished >.500 most of the time. A par year is a year with a winning record. As long as sub-.500 is the exception and not the rule, Oregon State basketball is in a great place IMO. |
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