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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 23, 2022 13:30:23 GMT -8
[quote author="@justjay" P.S. what's his overall record at OSU?[/quote]
You are using the same argument that the Riley haters used as their go-to argument for years. 2 bad years offset about a decade of winning seasons.
Those 2 bad seasons of Tinkle's should allow you to fall back on that argument for several years even if he makes the tournament a few times in the upcoming seasons.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 23, 2022 15:43:46 GMT -8
I've never been sold on Tinkle and I don't think he will improve much more than a 500 team most years and his bad years are historic. 7-6 is nice but we have barely touched league play. You'd actually have to not know anything about basketball, nay sports in general, to be sold on Tinkle.   |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 23, 2022 16:01:00 GMT -8
Is a winning season really the goal?
11 non-conference games and 20 conference games makes non-con more than a third of the schedule. If we're actually a good team we should be winning 10-15 conference games and 80% of non-con year to year. That would get you 18-23 games a year. Thats a good formula for making the tourney or at least being in the border every year. WT has hit that range 4 times with 19,18,18,20.
Our expectation shouldn't be to limp into the tourney every 4 years of we get lucky. We should be trying to be in the top third of the conference every year.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 23, 2022 21:54:57 GMT -8
A winning season shouldn't be the goal, but when a team that only gets a winning season twice in 24 years gets it 5 in 8 and 2 tournament trips including a n Elite 8 appearance... It's potentially a heck of a building block!
Few sports franchises have ever gone from a quarter century of ineptitude to "permanent" winners in a flash. I'm not sure if I could name one.
The goal should always be improvement, however setbacks can happen, it's where it goes from there that shows where the program is going. Tinkle has had 2 doozies in the setback department, but looking at his history as a head coach, he has never had two consecutive years in a row with declining win totals - Few coaches can say that, even Ralph Miller had multiple 2-3 year stretches of declining win totals.
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 23, 2022 22:18:31 GMT -8
Well if he declined after last year it would have been pretty impressive.
If nothing else he made a building block that might get us a higher grade of coach. He's had plenty of time.
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Post by finleybandbeav on Dec 24, 2022 6:29:03 GMT -8
Fordham University had at least 24 years of futility after joining the A-10, with not even an NIT appearance in their home city's tournament. Then last year, they hit .500. This year, they're 12-1 and easily lead the A-10 going into conference play. Granted, there were come cupcakes along the way, but then, Fordham is (was?) pretty much one of them. I'm not sure what they're doing is sustainable, but if it is, they could be the exception.
I'll head off the know-it-alls by adding they did upgrade their coaching situation significantly, and expanded their budget.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 24, 2022 7:57:08 GMT -8
Fordham University had at least 24 years of futility after joining the A-10, with not even an NIT appearance in their home city's tournament. Then last year, they hit .500. This year, they're 12-1 and easily lead the A-10 going into conference play. Granted, there were come cupcakes along the way, but then, Fordham is (was?) pretty much one of them. I'm not sure what they're doing is sustainable, but if it is, they could be the exception. I'll head off the know-it-alls by adding they did upgrade their coaching situation significantly, and expanded their budget. I follow the A-10 pretty close. Fordham is better and yes the Rams have a new coach. They have also played 11 home games, and absolutely no one of substance. Their only P5 game was a 26-point loss. They have scheduled well if their aim was to compile quad 4 wins and perhaps generate interest in a dead program. It won't be sustainable in the A-10, although the league is down a bit this year. |
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rafer
Sophomore
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Post by rafer on Dec 24, 2022 11:01:57 GMT -8
I've never been sold on Tinkle and I don't think he will improve much more than a 500 team most years and his bad years are historic. 7-6 is nice but we have barely touched league play. You'd actually have to not know anything about basketball, nay sports in general, to be sold on Tinkle. Sooo, who's your guy, or gal ?? got a name? who can we get here and who would be your choice? Leave WT out of your answer? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 24, 2022 11:31:18 GMT -8
Well if he declined after last year it would have been pretty impressive. If nothing else he made a building block that might get us a higher grade of coach. He's had plenty of time. Time to do what, though? Elite Eight is not good enough? Final Four or bust! Name another coach who has led a team to an Elite Eight with the 10th-highest budget in their conference. Plus, you really want Oregon State University to be the university that fired a coach that led the team to their best season in the past 50 years two years later. Like, what coach with two firing brain cells wants that gig? |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Dec 24, 2022 11:51:23 GMT -8
Well if he declined after last year it would have been pretty impressive. If nothing else he made a building block that might get us a higher grade of coach. He's had plenty of time. Time to do what, though? Elite Eight is not good enough? Final Four or bust! Name another coach who has led a team to an Elite Eight with the 10th-highest budget in their conference. Plus, you really want Oregon State University to be the university that fired a coach that led the team to their best season in the past 50 years two years later. Like, what coach with two firing brain cells wants that gig? Have a consistently competitive team in the PAC 12. 2020-2021 was a stack of miracles and it was awesome. A great run doesn't mean we're consistent and competitive. We shouldn't have to run the table in the tourney to get in. We also shouldn't follow up that run with the worst season in history and then a likely sub 500 season. He should be building on the momentum to increase the programs baseline. No I want to be the team that fires a mediocre coach the year after the tournament when he went 3-28. His best season in 8 was 20 wins. If we find that good enough then we should be able to attract half ass coaching for decades to come. |
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Post by finleybandbeav on Dec 24, 2022 14:50:32 GMT -8
Fordham University had at least 24 years of futility after joining the A-10, with not even an NIT appearance in their home city's tournament. Then last year, they hit .500. This year, they're 12-1 and easily lead the A-10 going into conference play. Granted, there were come cupcakes along the way, but then, Fordham is (was?) pretty much one of them. I'm not sure what they're doing is sustainable, but if it is, they could be the exception. I'll head off the know-it-alls by adding they did upgrade their coaching situation significantly, and expanded their budget. I follow the A-10 pretty close. Fordham is better and yes the Rams have a new coach. They have also played 11 home games, and absolutely no one of substance. Their only P5 game was a 26-point loss. They have scheduled well if their aim was to compile quad 4 wins and perhaps generate interest in a dead program. It won't be sustainable in the A-10, although the league is down a bit this year. |
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Post by finleybandbeav on Dec 24, 2022 14:52:38 GMT -8
I'm not sure it's sustainable either, but 12-1 is 12-1. Plus, I don't doubt that you follow the A-10 as close as you say, but the A-10 is not "a bit down" this season - it is way, way down so far. I won't even bother to tally the bad losses - there are far too many to list ( just a sample: UMass loses to their Lowell regional campus, St. Bonaventure has lost four in a row (including some real stinkers), Rhode Island is absolutely terrible, etc., etc.). The A-10 is up for grabs this year my friend. Fordham likely won't remain in the Top 3-4, but you never know. If a sleeper team takes the conference title this year it won't surprise me at all. It's there for the taking.
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Post by irimi on Dec 24, 2022 15:13:38 GMT -8
I love this. This is exactly the conversation that should be happening this year. Is Tinkle worth keeping around?
Tinkle came to a crappy program that many had failed to bring up to even mediocrity. Failure for a generation. And for a brief period, he made all of us believe in Beaver Basketball once again.
But last year was embarrassingly bad. Unforgivably bad.
I'm still content to watch how this year plays out. 2 fantastic Pac 12 games already have me hopeful.
But we still need to be vigilant. Keep that leash short, but not so short that he can't do his job.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 24, 2022 15:26:39 GMT -8
Time to do what, though? Elite Eight is not good enough? Final Four or bust! Name another coach who has led a team to an Elite Eight with the 10th-highest budget in their conference. Plus, you really want Oregon State University to be the university that fired a coach that led the team to their best season in the past 50 years two years later. Like, what coach with two firing brain cells wants that gig? Have a consistently competitive team in the PAC 12. 2020-2021 was a stack of miracles and it was awesome. A great run doesn't mean we're consistent and competitive. We shouldn't have to run the table in the tourney to get in. We also shouldn't follow up that run with the worst season in history and then a likely sub 500 season. He should be building on the momentum to increase the programs baseline. No I want to be the team that fires a mediocre coach the year after the tournament when he went 3-28. His best season in 8 was 20 wins. If we find that good enough then we should be able to attract half ass coaching for decades to come. It'd take some digging to find it, but there was an article posted here some time back that listed the basketball recruiting budgets for all of the power 6 schools (I think 2019 or 2020 budgets). The Beavs were in the bottom 2, maybe last, if I recall. When a school consistently spends less than everbody else (and there's litte reason to suspect that year's budget was some kind of outlier) any coach is going to have a tough time consistently competing to be even in middle of the conference (which Tinkle has landed the Beavs in 5 out of 8 years). It's probably going to take more than just a new coach to make the Beavers "consistently competitive", whatever that vague statement means. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 24, 2022 20:19:00 GMT -8
Time to do what, though? Elite Eight is not good enough? Final Four or bust! Name another coach who has led a team to an Elite Eight with the 10th-highest budget in their conference. Plus, you really want Oregon State University to be the university that fired a coach that led the team to their best season in the past 50 years two years later. Like, what coach with two firing brain cells wants that gig? Have a consistently competitive team in the PAC 12. 2020-2021 was a stack of miracles and it was awesome. A great run doesn't mean we're consistent and competitive. We shouldn't have to run the table in the tourney to get in. We also shouldn't follow up that run with the worst season in history and then a likely sub 500 season. He should be building on the momentum to increase the programs baseline. No I want to be the team that fires a mediocre coach the year after the tournament when he went 3-28. His best season in 8 was 20 wins. If we find that good enough then we should be able to attract half ass coaching for decades to come. Tinkle's Pac-12 finishes: 7, 6, 12, 8, 4, 6, 1, 12 Consistently competitive team in the Pac-12. Disingenuous, dishonest, or uninformed to assert otherwise. A great run may not mean that we are consistent and competitive, but it clearly shows that we are competitive in an up Pac-12, too. The bad has been very bad, but I would trade 3-4 straight up atrocious years for a Pac-12 Championship, an Elite Eight run, and two NCAA Tournament appearances in a heartbeat. Great deal! Momentum is nonsense mumbo jumbo. Oregon State is not good enough to reload every year like baseball. You build, you have your great season, and you may have a atrocious year every five years. But as long as it is only every 4-5 years, it is tolerable. We start having them closer together or not seeing those postseason appearances every five years, you start approaching a point. Until then, I just disagree. |
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