|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 20, 2022 16:58:19 GMT -8
Tinkle took Montana to the NCAA Tournament in 2010, 2012, and 2013, CBI in 2011. Tang's current Career Head Coaching record is 0-0. Of the other guys you mentioned, McMahon is the only one would could more or less match Tinkle's 5 year record coming into the hire. Miller on the other hand, was coming off a Sweet 16, an undefeated season in the Big 10 and I think COY in the Big 10 as well when Oregon State hired him. Unfortunately most of his career was when it was very hard to get into the NCAAs so it's pretty much impossible to measure his other years against the current crop of coaches that have been mentioned in this thread... but he was a Big Time Hire, and to get that kind of hire these days is gonna cost 3 million plus easy. If this is another 5-10 win season with poor play I expect Wayne will be gone, Better than that and I expect him to be around to see where it goes., but if the AD really wants to do something that really changes the program to where it's beyond where Wayne has taken it they're probably going to have to step it up and bring in an actual big name coach, as well as the other likely expenditures and that's going to cost the big bucks. An Oregon State hire of a coach with the lead in experience like the guys you just mentioned, could very likely turn into a repeat of what is currently going on.... business as usual. As far as outliers go, throw out all of the outliers, the 2 bad years, the two NCAA Tournament years, and he's still the most successful coach of the last 30 years, a winning record with no sub- .500 record seasons - considering in the previous 24 seasons the Beavs managed a .500 record 5 times, that's a big step up, and to improve on it they're probably going to have to really "invest" in the program. Yes, someone already pointed out my reading blunder. My apologies. And I was a fan of WT’s initial hire. As to the coaches I mentioned, Tang etal, I was just pointing out their salaries and the going rate for new hires — which is not $3M+ except in rare cases. I’m saying whether they were good or bad hires. For most of them, I don’t know enough about them to have an opinion. I agree there are coaches available for under 3 million. I'd do it for a hundred grand, probably less, but I could also guarantee we'd be lucky to surpass Tinkle's worst years. All of the guys you mentioned had resumes that basically at best could match Tinkle. I'm looking at guys with a bit of a track record at big schools that are signing with Power 5 schools. Mike White is getting 3.4 million at Georgia. John Scheyer is rumored to be getting 7 million + at Duke., and he really doesn't have a track record, other than being heir apparent... now there's a school who's "business as usual" is good business. Heck, Kenny Payne is getting 3.35 mil with a 0-0 career coaching record at Louisville. Unfortunately OSU has somewhat of a reputation as a tough gig and basketball coaching graveyard, enough of one that every few years it comes up as being such in major publications. I'm thinking to realistically break that long term trend they're probably going to have to change long term hiring and spending tactics. That's all. |
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Oct 20, 2022 20:42:24 GMT -8
It’s nice that there’s at least one thing everyone can agree on.
|
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Oct 20, 2022 20:43:36 GMT -8
The last time OSU "paid up front" to bring in a successful power 5 coach was Miller... they apparently "sweetened the pot" so they could offer him 60-80k a year (can't remember which). Nowadays 20k or so doesn't sweeten the pot much at this level. Be like several hundred thousand today. I doubt that Ralph was getting paid $60-$80,000 in 1970. John Wooden only made $40,000 his final year at UCLA in 1975. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Oct 21, 2022 4:32:22 GMT -8
Yes, someone already pointed out my reading blunder. My apologies. And I was a fan of WT’s initial hire. As to the coaches I mentioned, Tang etal, I was just pointing out their salaries and the going rate for new hires — which is not $3M+ except in rare cases. I’m saying whether they were good or bad hires. For most of them, I don’t know enough about them to have an opinion. I agree there are coaches available for under 3 million. I'd do it for a hundred grand, probably less, but I could also guarantee we'd be lucky to surpass Tinkle's worst years. All of the guys you mentioned had resumes that basically at best could match Tinkle. I'm looking at guys with a bit of a track record at big schools that are signing with Power 5 schools. Mike White is getting 3.4 million at Georgia. John Scheyer is rumored to be getting 7 million + at Duke., and he really doesn't have a track record, other than being heir apparent... now there's a school who's "business as usual" is good business. Heck, Kenny Payne is getting 3.35 mil with a 0-0 career coaching record at Louisville. Unfortunately OSU has somewhat of a reputation as a tough gig and basketball coaching graveyard, enough of one that every few years it comes up as being such in major publications. I'm thinking to realistically break that long term trend they're probably going to have to change long term hiring and spending tactics. That's all. OK, you seem less than impressed with the under $3M guys that were signed this off season by P5 schools. And you contend that it will take at least $3M to hire someone that will move the needle. So who do you have in mind? Let’s say you’re AD and WT comes to you and says he’s decided to step down after this year (I won’t make you fire him in this scenario). After talking to administration and some donors who love basketball., you’ve determined the school has enough to offer a new coach $3M-$4M a year starting salary as well as a respectable assistant salary pool and NIL opportunities. What coaches are you targeting that meet your criteria. FYI, I agree on the Kenny Payne hiring/salary. That seems to have potential bust written all over it. I guess with all the recent issues there, no one was too eager to take that on except an alum. Well at least he’s shown he can recruit. And speaking of recruiting, I’m interested to see how Scheyer does as HC at Duke. He certainly won’t have lack of talent as an excuse cuz he has not missed a beat in recruiting. Their 2022 class is ridiculous, and the 2023 class not far beyond. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 21, 2022 10:37:07 GMT -8
Be like several hundred thousand today. I doubt that Ralph was getting paid $60-$80,000 in 1970. John Wooden only made $40,000 his final year at UCLA in 1975. It may have been less. I read an article a couple years back that said OSU had to jump through some hoops to pay him more than the professors (I think that's what it was) were getting paid at the time. I really can't remember the salary, could've been 45k for all I know. At any rate, it was very very low by today's standards but a stretch at the time. |
|
|
|
Post by qbeaver on Oct 21, 2022 10:41:24 GMT -8
In 1980,Joe Avezzano signed a deal worth 40,000 dollars a year. Just a reference...
|
|
|
|
Post by qbeaver on Oct 21, 2022 10:49:49 GMT -8
I too don't have a great candidate in mind at 3 million a year,but atleast it opens the eyes of better candidates who wouldn't touch the Osu basketball job with a 100 foot pole. Everyone wants to be paid what they think they are worth,and 6 straight coaches have left here not on a high note. Hope many of them got an equal or better job besides McKay at New Mexico after leaving osu? None
|
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 21, 2022 11:12:34 GMT -8
I agree there are coaches available for under 3 million. I'd do it for a hundred grand, probably less, but I could also guarantee we'd be lucky to surpass Tinkle's worst years. All of the guys you mentioned had resumes that basically at best could match Tinkle. I'm looking at guys with a bit of a track record at big schools that are signing with Power 5 schools. Mike White is getting 3.4 million at Georgia. John Scheyer is rumored to be getting 7 million + at Duke., and he really doesn't have a track record, other than being heir apparent... now there's a school who's "business as usual" is good business. Heck, Kenny Payne is getting 3.35 mil with a 0-0 career coaching record at Louisville. Unfortunately OSU has somewhat of a reputation as a tough gig and basketball coaching graveyard, enough of one that every few years it comes up as being such in major publications. I'm thinking to realistically break that long term trend they're probably going to have to change long term hiring and spending tactics. That's all. OK, you seem less than impressed with the under $3M guys that were signed this off season by P5 schools. And you contend that it will take at least $3M to hire someone that will move the needle. So who do you have in mind? Let’s say you’re AD and WT comes to you and says he’s decided to step down after this year (I won’t make you fire him in this scenario). After talking to administration and some donors who love basketball., you’ve determined the school has enough to offer a new coach $3M-$4M a year starting salary as well as a respectable assistant salary pool and NIL opportunities. What coaches are you targeting that meet your criteria. FYI, I agree on the Kenny Payne hiring/salary. That seems to have potential bust written all over it. I guess with all the recent issues there, no one was too eager to take that on except an alum. Well at least he’s shown he can recruit. And speaking of recruiting, I’m interested to see how Scheyer does as HC at Duke. He certainly won’t have lack of talent as an excuse cuz he has not missed a beat in recruiting. Their 2022 class is ridiculous, and the 2023 class not far beyond. First of all, I have not determined the school has enough money to pay 3 mil plus for a new coach. My sole argument is that doing men's basketball coaching hires on the cheap at OSU has a long track record of NOT moving the needle much. There's no guarantee that spending more will move the needle much either, but I can pretty much guarantee that OSU would not be in the hunt for a top of mind name coach that impresses both fans and recruits day one spending less. My initial post was about my feelings about spending less to get an up and comer - For OSU men's basketball that has a track record of not working, repeating that is probably not going to lead to improvement unless we literally luck into the right guy. OSU has a reputation, I've seen at least a few articles over the years that have picked OSU as one of the worst/hardest coaching gigs in men's basketball. Like in politics, some people think a change of face at head coach is all it takes to "fix things" and "anybody but" the existing person is the answer. I'm not trying to be critical of the guys you're mentioning, some of them may work out, maybe not though. I'm just saying there are a couple things - 1) Shopping the bargain bin for coaches 2) Having one of the lowest recruiting budgets in power 5 basketball - that have not been producing top level results here the last 3 decades, and now that the genie of NIL is out of the bottle is out it's going to be even tougher for the "have nots" to compete with the "haves" without ponying up some cash that is competitive. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Oct 21, 2022 12:05:29 GMT -8
OK, you seem less than impressed with the under $3M guys that were signed this off season by P5 schools. And you contend that it will take at least $3M to hire someone that will move the needle. So who do you have in mind? Let’s say you’re AD and WT comes to you and says he’s decided to step down after this year (I won’t make you fire him in this scenario). After talking to administration and some donors who love basketball., you’ve determined the school has enough to offer a new coach $3M-$4M a year starting salary as well as a respectable assistant salary pool and NIL opportunities. What coaches are you targeting that meet your criteria. FYI, I agree on the Kenny Payne hiring/salary. That seems to have potential bust written all over it. I guess with all the recent issues there, no one was too eager to take that on except an alum. Well at least he’s shown he can recruit. And speaking of recruiting, I’m interested to see how Scheyer does as HC at Duke. He certainly won’t have lack of talent as an excuse cuz he has not missed a beat in recruiting. Their 2022 class is ridiculous, and the 2023 class not far beyond. First of all, I have not determined the school has enough money to pay 3 mil plus for a new coach. My sole argument is that doing men's basketball coaching hires on the cheap at OSU has a long track record of NOT moving the needle much. There's no guarantee that spending more will move the needle much either, but I can pretty much guarantee that OSU would not be in the hunt for a top of mind name coach that impresses both fans and recruits day one spending less. My initial post was about my feelings about spending less to get an up and comer - For OSU men's basketball that has a track record of not working, repeating that is probably not going to lead to improvement unless we literally luck into the right guy. OSU has a reputation, I've seen at least a few articles over the years that have picked OSU as one of the worst/hardest coaching gigs in men's basketball. Like in politics, some people think a change of face at head coach is all it takes to "fix things" and "anybody but" the existing person is the answer. I'm not trying to be critical of the guys you're mentioning, some of them may work out, maybe not though. I'm just saying there are a couple things - 1) Shopping the bargain bin for coaches 2) Having one of the lowest recruiting budgets in power 5 basketball - that have not been producing top level results here the last 3 decades, and now that the genie of NIL is out of the bottle is out it's going to be even tougher for the "have nots" to compete with the "haves" without ponying up some cash that is competitive. I understand all that. I was just posing a hypothetical that IF it was determined that $3M-$4M was doable and AC salary pools and NIL were at least competitive (I actually think that last one might be the least likely), who are some coaches you would be in favor of targeting. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 21, 2022 12:10:28 GMT -8
I too don't have a great candidate in mind at 3 million a year,but atleast it opens the eyes of better candidates who wouldn't touch the Osu basketball job with a 100 foot pole. Everyone wants to be paid what they think they are worth,and 6 straight coaches have left here not on a high note. Hope many of them got an equal or better job besides McKay at New Mexico after leaving osu? None Craig Robinson has been the vice president of player and organizational development of the Milwaukee Bucks and the New York Knicks, and is now the executive director of the National Basketball Coaches Association. He's not coaching, but they all are probably better jobs than trying to win at OSU. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 21, 2022 14:56:09 GMT -8
Craig Robinson has been the vice president of player and organizational development of the Milwaukee Bucks and the New York Knicks, and is now the executive director of the National Basketball Coaches Association. He's not coaching, but they all are probably better jobs than trying to win at OSU. Please, nobody in the basketball world would consider mid level front office NBA gigs or...checks notes...executive director of the National Basketball Coaches Association (lol) as "better jobs" than a D-1 major conference head basketball coach. Lol!!!!!!!!!! Ok, Kay. Every job is what you make it. If Robinson doesn't go home at night to sleep on a pile of money, I'd eat my hat. For a person who was not Robinson, I might agree with you, but it's Robinson. I don't care what it says his salary is. He is raking it in. And he would laugh in your face, if you asked him, if he would want to coach at Oregon State again. And not like a polite laugh. Like a Sideshow Bob laugh. Still, I'm sure Robinson wakes up at least twice nightly in a cold sweat to yell at a former Beaver to do something or another before he drinks another shot of NyQuil and goes back to bed. Just like all of the other living Oregon State basketball coaches. My two cents. Probably not worth that much. |
|
|
|
Post by jefframp on Oct 22, 2022 9:12:42 GMT -8
. Still, I'm sure Robinson wakes up at least twice nightly in a cold sweat to yell "MOVE!" at a former Beaver to do something or another before he drinks another shot of NyQuil and goes back to bed. FIFY |
|
|
|
Post by william44 on Oct 22, 2022 10:24:18 GMT -8
Really sounds hopeless when You guys bring up Craig Robinson. We will all endure. If they are bad enough we will see Gill empty. Funny how low salaries were when Slats coached, Paul and Ralph. Acetaminophen was no bargain even at 40 grand. I really hope for the best. Tinkle is really running out of chances: Hate to think what oregon will be like this year. With NIL money. Right up their alley.
Well we’re a football school anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 22, 2022 11:07:33 GMT -8
Still, I'm sure Robinson wakes up at least twice nightly in a cold sweat to yell "MOVE!" at a former Beaver to do something or another before he drinks another shot of NyQuil and goes back to bed. FIFY Lol. Well said. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Apr 17, 2023 6:00:41 GMT -8
Wayne Tinkle took Montana to the 2010, 2012 and 2013 NCAA tournaments. That's three. So apparently you slept through the reading comprehension portion of D&S's post. Brown went from 11-18 in Robinson's first year to 19-10. Sounds like an up-and-comer to me. Let's see what happens to your golden guy at Mizzou, a suckhole for athletics. Cuonzo Martin was an up-and-comer too. So was Kim Anderson. Was recently talking about Dennis Gates with a friend and it reminded me of this post. So far so good for Mr. Gates. Inherited a team that went 12-21 (5-13) and then most of the team hit the portal due to the coach change. Brought in 6 transfers and 3 HS recruits, and proceeded to guide the team to a 24-9 (11-7) record, an NCAA bid and a first round win. Has the 24th ranked recruiting class coming in this year with 3 HS recruits and 2 transfers. So far so good for my “golden guy at Mizzou.” He’ll be on the short list when top jobs open up in the future. |
|
