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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 19, 2022 12:15:19 GMT -8
It should also be noted that Howland was fired by UCLA and by Mississippi State despite posting winning records at each school. So maybe there was more to the decision not to hire him that just money. I think his middle name is Pelini. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 19, 2022 12:23:09 GMT -8
I like where your head is at.  |
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Post by qbeaver on Oct 19, 2022 15:04:15 GMT -8
That has been the problem since Ralph left. If you want a quality program who consistently wins,you have to pay a quality coach and staff competitive money up front. It's a risk to take the Oregon state job since osu hadn't consistently won since 1988. Howland wanted money osu wasn't willing to pay. Well...here we are again wanting to hire another savior to consistently win at OSU. Rinse and repeat. Jimmy...Eddie...Jay...Craig...Ritchie...Wayne...who is next? Ben Howland led MSU to ONE NCAA berth and it lost in the first round. Tinkle has led the Beavers to two, one of which resulted in three wins and an Elite 8 berth. MSU finished 10th or below in the SEC in four of his seven seasons. He did get them to three NITs. Maybe we hired the right guy. I like Wayne. Some are still living in the past expecting osu to win like Ralph did consistently. I'm just saying,it's hard to consistently be a winner at osu. The chances of having a consistent winner is much better if you pay up front at a higher rate...we typically don't. Not comparing Howland to Wayne's record so far. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 19, 2022 16:24:02 GMT -8
The last time OSU "paid up front" to bring in a successful power 5 coach was Miller... they apparently "sweetened the pot" so they could offer him 60-80k a year (can't remember which).
Nowadays 20k or so doesn't sweeten the pot much at this level.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 19, 2022 17:05:14 GMT -8
The last time OSU "paid up front" to bring in a successful power 5 coach was Miller... they apparently "sweetened the pot" so they could offer him 60-80k a year (can't remember which). Nowadays 20k or so doesn't sweeten the pot much at this level. Be like several hundred thousand today. |
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Post by qbeaver on Oct 20, 2022 8:54:31 GMT -8
The last time OSU "paid up front" to bring in a successful power 5 coach was Miller... they apparently "sweetened the pot" so they could offer him 60-80k a year (can't remember which). Nowadays 20k or so doesn't sweeten the pot much at this level. Be like several hundred thousand today. If you want to attract a top coach we're talking 3 million a year starting. In addition,quality assistants with connections who can connect with recruits don't come cheap. Osu has decisions to make about maximizing the budget we have. Do we pay assistant football coaches a raise to keep them like CoachM,or invest in a sport that won't make as much revenue like MBB? That is the dilemma Scott Barnes has when they hire a head MBB coach. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 20, 2022 9:31:44 GMT -8
Be like several hundred thousand today. If you want to attract a top coach we're talking 3 million a year starting. In addition,quality assistants with connections who can connect with recruits don't come cheap. Osu has decisions to make about maximizing the budget we have. Do we pay assistant football coaches a raise to keep them like CoachM,or invest in a sport that won't make as much revenue like MBB? That is the dilemma Scott Barnes has when they hire a head MBB coach. Money was tight for basketball before. With UCLA and USC doing what they are doing, money is probably going to be even tighter. I don't know what, if anything, is feasible anymore considering the financial cliff that we may be approaching. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Oct 20, 2022 9:45:24 GMT -8
Be like several hundred thousand today. If you want to attract a top coach we're talking 3 million a year starting. In addition,quality assistants with connections who can connect with recruits don't come cheap. Osu has decisions to make about maximizing the budget we have. Do we pay assistant football coaches a raise to keep them like CoachM,or invest in a sport that won't make as much revenue like MBB? That is the dilemma Scott Barnes has when they hire a head MBB coach. i agree with the balancing act Barnes has. Tinkle’s buyout is the problem. You can find a good, up and coming coach for the same amount that they are paying WT. Case in point, Dennis Gates — an up and coming coach hired by Missouri this off season. He was previously at Cleveland State where his salary was about $500,000. The two previous years before he was hired at Clev St, they were 22-44. His records in his 3 years there — 11-21, 19-8 (16-4 conf, 1st) and NCAA bid,, and 20-11 (15-6 conf, 1st) and NIT bid. Guy is known for his recruiting and worked for Leonard Hamilton at FSU for about 8 years. He’ll be paid $2.5 million this season with a $100,000 escalator each year through 2027-28, when he’ll be paid $3 million. I believe that’s about what WT is getting. I’m not saying he would have been a great fit here though he was AC at Nevada and Cal before FSU, but there are very good coaches out there OSU could target. Comes down to the fan base is happy with WT, too apathetic to care, or too scared to want a change cuz they have no faith that Barnes can hire a good coach. |
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Post by qbeaver on Oct 20, 2022 9:55:19 GMT -8
If you want to attract a top coach we're talking 3 million a year starting. In addition,quality assistants with connections who can connect with recruits don't come cheap. Osu has decisions to make about maximizing the budget we have. Do we pay assistant football coaches a raise to keep them like CoachM,or invest in a sport that won't make as much revenue like MBB? That is the dilemma Scott Barnes has when they hire a head MBB coach. Money was tight for basketball before. With UCLA and USC doing what they are doing, money is probably going to be even tighter. I don't know what, if anything, is feasible anymore considering the financial cliff that we may be approaching. My point all along has been if you want a consistent winner at a school that hasn't consistently won in 35 years,you have to pay up front to get the type of candidate and staff who can be difference makers. I know we got lucky with Pat Casey and Scott Rueck being home run hires,but the last 6 basketball hires haven't been. The guys who are top candidates won't touch this job going on the cheap. The problem with overpaying for a quality candidate is it's money your taking away from the bell cow of the athletic department...Football. Some may say,there is money to pay a guy market wage in MBB at OSU and not take away from football. If so,why haven't we done this the last 35-40 years? |
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Post by qbeaver on Oct 20, 2022 10:08:28 GMT -8
If you want to attract a top coach we're talking 3 million a year starting. In addition,quality assistants with connections who can connect with recruits don't come cheap. Osu has decisions to make about maximizing the budget we have. Do we pay assistant football coaches a raise to keep them like CoachM,or invest in a sport that won't make as much revenue like MBB? That is the dilemma Scott Barnes has when they hire a head MBB coach. i agree with the balancing act Barnes has. Tinkle’s buyout is the problem. You can find a good, up and coming coach for the same amount that they are paying WT. Case in point, Dennis Gates — an up and coming coach hired by Missouri this off season. He was previously at Cleveland State where his salary was about $500,000. The two previous years before he was hired at Clev St, they were 22-44. His records in his 3 years there — 11-21, 19-8 (16-4 conf, 1st) and NCAA bid,, and 20-11 (15-6 conf, 1st) and NIT bid. Guy is known for his recruiting and worked for Leonard Hamilton at FSU for about 8 years. He’ll be paid $2.5 million this season with a $100,000 escalator each year through 2027-28, when he’ll be paid $3 million. I believe that’s about what WT is getting. I’m not saying he would have been a great fit here though he was AC at Nevada and Cal before FSU, but there are very good coaches out there OSU could target. Comes down to the fan base is happy with WT, too apathetic to care, or too scared to want a change cuz they have no faith that Barnes can hire a good coach. I know who Dennis Gates is...he was a Chicago area hooper. I remember when he was in high school. Why has osu not hired a guy under 4-5 athletic directors who can consistently win? Lynn Snyder,Dutch Bachman,Mitch Barnhart,DeCarolis,Stansbury all tried. No success. Barnes has had some very good hires...Canham and Jonathan have been very good so I fully trust him. In addition,he got the West side project started which DeCarolis couldn't. No issue there. I want osu to have a solid MBB year in year out,because osu hoops and The Orange Express was my first love at osu. That being said,I understand why we haven't been good consistently. If there are good candidates every time osu needs to hire a new MBB coach,why haven't we done it? It's a very very difficult job. How do you reward Wayne after a year of going to the elite 8...Ralph only did that once in 1982 with Lester,A.C.,Charlie,etc. Ralph was a horrible post season coach. Lamar,Notre Dame,Evansville,K-State,West Virginia,etc...all losses.I watched them all. Have most on tape ive never watched. I just want fans to be realistic. 3 million a year...I'm sticking to that if you want a CHANCE of consistent success. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Oct 20, 2022 10:58:44 GMT -8
i agree with the balancing act Barnes has. Tinkle’s buyout is the problem. You can find a good, up and coming coach for the same amount that they are paying WT. Case in point, Dennis Gates — an up and coming coach hired by Missouri this off season. He was previously at Cleveland State where his salary was about $500,000. The two previous years before he was hired at Clev St, they were 22-44. His records in his 3 years there — 11-21, 19-8 (16-4 conf, 1st) and NCAA bid,, and 20-11 (15-6 conf, 1st) and NIT bid. Guy is known for his recruiting and worked for Leonard Hamilton at FSU for about 8 years. He’ll be paid $2.5 million this season with a $100,000 escalator each year through 2027-28, when he’ll be paid $3 million. I believe that’s about what WT is getting. I’m not saying he would have been a great fit here though he was AC at Nevada and Cal before FSU, but there are very good coaches out there OSU could target. Comes down to the fan base is happy with WT, too apathetic to care, or too scared to want a change cuz they have no faith that Barnes can hire a good coach. I know who Dennis Gates is...he was a Chicago area hooper. I remember when he was in high school. Why has osu not hired a guy under 4-5 athletic directors who can consistently win? Lynn Snyder,Dutch Bachman,Mitch Barnhart,DeCarolis,Stansbury all tried. No success. Barnes has had some very good hires...Canham and Jonathan have been very good so I fully trust him. In addition,he got the West side project started which DeCarolis couldn't. No issue there. I want osu to have a solid MBB year in year out,because osu hoops and The Orange Express was my first love at osu. That being said,I understand why we haven't been good consistently. If there are good candidates every time osu needs to hire a new MBB coach,why haven't we done it? It's a very very difficult job. How do you reward Wayne after a year of going to the elite 8...Ralph only did that once in 1982 with Lester,A.C.,Charlie,etc. Ralph was a horrible post season coach. Lamar,Notre Dame,Evansville,K-State,West Virginia,etc...all losses.I watched them all. Have most on tape ive never watched. I just want fans to be realistic. 3 million a year...I'm sticking to that if you want a CHANCE of consistent success. Oops, I forgot “it’s hard” as an excuse in my previous post. You do realize college sports in general and basketball specifically has changed quite a bit in 35 years. What Lynn Snyder did or didn’t do has no impact on the current situation. That Ralph Miller was a terrible post season coach has no bearing. There are very good coaches that can be had for $2.5-$3.0m a year. No, they can’t lure a current P5 HC for that amount of money, but there are up and coming coaches who have won at D1 schools and are making 500k to $1M that would love to tackle the challenge of Oregon State basketball. And I think they could be at least as successful as WT. For the record, I never advocated for WT to be fired after this past year. Nor do I think he’ll be fired after this year — mostly because of his buyout. But if after next year things haven’t turned around, then people have to stop with the “we can’t do any better” crud and he has to be shown the door. Until then. I’ll be staying up late rooting for the Beavers and looking for any glimmer of hope that success will come under WT. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 20, 2022 11:03:55 GMT -8
I get a bit of a nervous grin when I hear people saying we can get an up and coming coach from a small school for cheap.
Those same people seem to ignore that in the 5 years before coming to OSU Wayne's team won 110 games, went to the NCAAs 3 times and the CBI once. He is a good example of an up and coming coach, and has been the most successful coach at OSU in 30 years... but it's not good enough and they would prefer to throw a 7 sided coin (two sided coins haven't been working) in hopes that the next side up will be the up and coming hire that is better than the previous 6.
It's probably at least the 3 million a year mentioned earlier plus big pay for assistants, plus a dramatically increased recruiting budget, and now a pile of NIL $$$ to get a consistent winner out of the chute.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 20, 2022 11:10:13 GMT -8
I know who Dennis Gates is...he was a Chicago area hooper. I remember when he was in high school. Why has osu not hired a guy under 4-5 athletic directors who can consistently win? Lynn Snyder,Dutch Bachman,Mitch Barnhart,DeCarolis,Stansbury all tried. No success. Barnes has had some very good hires...Canham and Jonathan have been very good so I fully trust him. In addition,he got the West side project started which DeCarolis couldn't. No issue there. I want osu to have a solid MBB year in year out,because osu hoops and The Orange Express was my first love at osu. That being said,I understand why we haven't been good consistently. If there are good candidates every time osu needs to hire a new MBB coach,why haven't we done it? It's a very very difficult job. How do you reward Wayne after a year of going to the elite 8...Ralph only did that once in 1982 with Lester,A.C.,Charlie,etc. Ralph was a horrible post season coach. Lamar,Notre Dame,Evansville,K-State,West Virginia,etc...all losses.I watched them all. Have most on tape ive never watched. I just want fans to be realistic. 3 million a year...I'm sticking to that if you want a CHANCE of consistent success. Oops, I forgot “it’s hard” as an excuse in my previous post. You do realize college sports in general and basketball specifically has changed quite a bit in 35 years. What Lynn Snyder did or didn’t do has no impact on the current situation. That Ralph Miller was a terrible post season coach has no bearing. There are very good coaches that can be had for $2.5-$3.0m a year. No, they can’t lure a current P5 HC for that amount of money, but there are up and coming coaches who have won at D1 schools and are making 500k to $1M that would love to tackle the challenge of Oregon State basketball. And I think they could be at least as successful as WT. For the record, I never advocated for WT to be fired after this past year. Nor do I think he’ll be fired after this year — mostly because of his buyout. But if after next year things haven’t turned around, then people have to stop with the “we can’t do any better” crud and he has to be shown the door. Until then. I’ll be staying up late rooting for the Beavers and looking for any glimmer of hope that success will come under WT. For what we can pay the next coach, I worry that we are just trying to draw to an inside straight. The chances that an up-and-coming coach from the Northwest is going to do markedly better than Tinkle can seem low. Let's see if there is any optimism in this year's rebuild. I have seen bad year's before. But the athletic department must do something, if there are consecutive awful years. |
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Post by qbeaver on Oct 20, 2022 11:39:41 GMT -8
I know who Dennis Gates is...he was a Chicago area hooper. I remember when he was in high school. Why has osu not hired a guy under 4-5 athletic directors who can consistently win? Lynn Snyder,Dutch Bachman,Mitch Barnhart,DeCarolis,Stansbury all tried. No success. Barnes has had some very good hires...Canham and Jonathan have been very good so I fully trust him. In addition,he got the West side project started which DeCarolis couldn't. No issue there. I want osu to have a solid MBB year in year out,because osu hoops and The Orange Express was my first love at osu. That being said,I understand why we haven't been good consistently. If there are good candidates every time osu needs to hire a new MBB coach,why haven't we done it? It's a very very difficult job. How do you reward Wayne after a year of going to the elite 8...Ralph only did that once in 1982 with Lester,A.C.,Charlie,etc. Ralph was a horrible post season coach. Lamar,Notre Dame,Evansville,K-State,West Virginia,etc...all losses.I watched them all. Have most on tape ive never watched. I just want fans to be realistic. 3 million a year...I'm sticking to that if you want a CHANCE of consistent success. Oops, I forgot “it’s hard” as an excuse in my previous post. You do realize college sports in general and basketball specifically has changed quite a bit in 35 years. What Lynn Snyder did or didn’t do has no impact on the current situation. That Ralph Miller was a terrible post season coach has no bearing. There are very good coaches that can be had for $2.5-$3.0m a year. No, they can’t lure a current P5 HC for that amount of money, but there are up and coming coaches who have won at D1 schools and are making 500k to $1M that would love to tackle the challenge of Oregon State basketball. And I think they could be at least as successful as WT. For the record, I never advocated for WT to be fired after this past year. Nor do I think he’ll be fired after this year — mostly because of his buyout. But if after next year things haven’t turned around, then people have to stop with the “we can’t do any better” crud and he has to be shown the door. Until then. I’ll be staying up late rooting for the Beavers and looking for any glimmer of hope that success will come under WT. I know basketball has changed since Lynn Snyder was hired in 1985. I've watched hoops since the days of Sam Whitehead,Ron Jones,Cliff Jones,etc. My point about Ralph was he went to the elite eight once in 25+ years at osu. Wayne did the same two years ago. You said the problem was Wayne's contract and the money we owe him. That is due to the extension. What do you think osu should have done rewarding Wayne for a historic season,that may have enevitably hamstrung the athletic department. Trying to hire an up and comer the last 6 or so hires is exactly what we HAVE done...0/5 not counting Jimmy. MacKay...Colo st/portland st...Eddie Payne E. Carolina...Craig Robinson...Princeton...Jay John...Top Arizona assistant...Wayne Tinkle...Montana. Guys paid less elsewhere who are alleged up and comers. It hasn't worked. Rinse and repeat. I too will root for Wayne because I think he is a good fit at osu. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Oct 20, 2022 12:40:14 GMT -8
Oops, I forgot “it’s hard” as an excuse in my previous post. You do realize college sports in general and basketball specifically has changed quite a bit in 35 years. What Lynn Snyder did or didn’t do has no impact on the current situation. That Ralph Miller was a terrible post season coach has no bearing. There are very good coaches that can be had for $2.5-$3.0m a year. No, they can’t lure a current P5 HC for that amount of money, but there are up and coming coaches who have won at D1 schools and are making 500k to $1M that would love to tackle the challenge of Oregon State basketball. And I think they could be at least as successful as WT. For the record, I never advocated for WT to be fired after this past year. Nor do I think he’ll be fired after this year — mostly because of his buyout. But if after next year things haven’t turned around, then people have to stop with the “we can’t do any better” crud and he has to be shown the door. Until then. I’ll be staying up late rooting for the Beavers and looking for any glimmer of hope that success will come under WT. For what we can pay the next coach, I worry that we are just trying to draw to an inside straight. The chances that an up-and-coming coach from the Northwest is going to do markedly better than Tinkle can seem low. Let's see if there is any optimism in this year's rebuild. I have seen bad year's before. But the athletic department must do something, if there are consecutive awful years. i don’t know about trying to draw to an inside straight, but, you’re right, there are no guarantees. I will say if high up on list of criteria is coach from Northwest than the hire is probably doomed. Sure some experience out west would be nice, but recruiters can recruit anywhere., and build the relationships. Plus recruiting overall and with the portal have made it much more national. Look at Hopkins at Wash. The results haven’t been great, but he’s recruited some very good players — both local and from outside the region. I mentioned Dennis Gates earlier and it will be interesting to see how Missouri does this year and next compared to OSU. They haven’t had much success of late, are picked to finish 11th in conference, and the team was decimated by graduation and transfers. I believe they have 11 new players on the roster. His task is as difficult or more (think SEC is better conference this year than Pac 12) than WT’s |
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