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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 7, 2022 16:48:58 GMT -8
Hjerpe was going to throw 20ish full speed pitches on Monday whether he threw or not, that's normal routine and most everyone should know that... He threw 36, a bit more than usual but to even suggest that 16 pitches extra has any tie to TJ is completely and utterly ridiculous For what it’s worth - the argument “against” that I’ve seen multiple times now is that while yes, he threw 36 pitches - but when you factor in his warm up session in the pen + warm ups on the mound before the 8th and 9th then that number is significantly higher. He warms up for bullpen sessions as well. He just doesn’t go out and throw 20-30 full speed pitches. It’s the same warm up routine. |
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Post by bigorangebeaver on Jun 7, 2022 16:54:11 GMT -8
Oh by the way we've won 40+ games. That's an awful lot for just one pitcher. would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 7, 2022 17:23:32 GMT -8
Oh by the way we've won 40+ games. That's an awful lot for just one pitcher. would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. Pitching from 50 feet. Wasn't moved back to 60-6 until 1893. |
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Post by bigorangebeaver on Jun 7, 2022 17:30:35 GMT -8
Old Hoss Radbourn would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. Pitching from 50 feet. Wasn't moved back to 60-6 until 1893. Sure. Helluva performance regardless, n'est-ce pas? |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 7, 2022 18:20:16 GMT -8
Pitching from 50 feet. Wasn't moved back to 60-6 until 1893. Sure. Helluva performance regardless, n'est-ce pas? Definitely. Those old guys pitched hundreds of innings every year. Maybe that's why they drank so much. |
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Post by chinmusic on Jun 7, 2022 19:23:05 GMT -8
Two pioneers of the UCL surgical proceedure known as "Tommy John", are Dr. Frank Jobe who practiced at the Kerlan-Jobe Clinic at UCLA's medical center and Dr. Micky Andrews who has several Sports Medicine Clinics in the southeastern U.S. Both Physicians are accomplished Orthopedic Surgeons with a history of sucessful T.J. outcomes.
Both are on record as saying the primary factor in a torn or damaged Ulner Collateral Ligament seen in pitchers is . . . THROWING TOO HARD FOR TOO LONG. Period. There is a buildup over time - a cumulative affect. It isn't the little league curveball, it isn't not warming up properly, it isn't throwing in cold weather, and it isn't eating up innings on short rest.
It's the guy, that over time has thrown too many fastballs with maximum effort and arm speed, and it finally catches up with him.
At UCLA, now they are performing a ligament graft to the original ligament, as opposed to removing and repacing it, which in effect, gives you a "double-strength" UCL.
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Post by irimi on Jun 7, 2022 21:35:40 GMT -8
Is anyone saying that? In case, it's unclear, I am simply saying that pitching 7-8 innings each outing should not be a goal that we set for the starters. It's crazy. Yes, If i remember correctly Cooper said it in the post game interviews. He said he always throws about 20 pitches or 5 or 6 of each pitch type full speed on Mondays. Sorry….I meant is anyone saying that it would cause TJ surgery? |
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Post by irimi on Jun 7, 2022 21:38:09 GMT -8
Oh by the way we've won 40+ games. That's an awful lot for just one pitcher. would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. I wonder if how fast his fastball was….Of if he threw junk like they do today. I’m curious what made a good pitcher back 140 years ago. |
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Post by beaver1989 on Jun 7, 2022 21:52:11 GMT -8
Old Hoss Radbourn would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. I wonder if how fast his fastball was….Of if he threw junk like they do today. I’m curious what made a good pitcher back 140 years ago. The ball was different and the equipment was different/inferior. They threw junk and had big farm boys that threw hard. They also drank, smoked, chewed, gambled, & chased women.(Some thing never change) If you told someone "He's throwing about 85 mph" They wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about. As far as what made a good pitcher a 140 years ago, you needed control, stamina/ rubber arm, and the ability to keep hitters off balance. |
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Post by nabeav on Jun 8, 2022 8:49:17 GMT -8
I prefer the approach that Dorman brings. I think he is more careful than Yeskie was, and Dorman wants the pitchers to succeed--not just win the game. I don't know that perception is reality here. I thought that maybe we had overused pitchers in the past too, but when looking at the number of pitches some of our top throwers have made throughout the years, it always tops out around 1700-1800 pitches. Hjerpe is at 1600 right now, will probably get to about 1700 this weekend with a chance to get up around 1800-1900 in Omaha. The one outlier is Luke Heimlich, who threw over 2000 pitches in a season twice in his career, according to osubeavers.com |
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Post by beaver1989 on Jun 8, 2022 10:42:13 GMT -8
I prefer the approach that Dorman brings. I think he is more careful than Yeskie was, and Dorman wants the pitchers to succeed--not just win the game. I don't know that perception is reality here. I thought that maybe we had overused pitchers in the past too, but when looking at the number of pitches some of our top throwers have made throughout the years, it always tops out around 1700-1800 pitches. Hjerpe is at 1600 right now, will probably get to about 1700 this weekend with a chance to get up around 1800-1900 in Omaha. The one outlier is Luke Heimlich, who threw over 2000 pitches in a season twice in his career, according to osubeavers.com How many surgeries has Heimlich had? Zero to my knowledge, but that won't stop muckraking sports writers from getting suburban Karen fired up over some alleged grievance. IMO Beaver pitchers haven't been overused since the 2006 CWS and that had more to do with how the loser bracket and scheduling was set up. Besides, overuse was more prevalent in the decades before pitch counts became the norm and sports medicine & science became more advanced. Things have gotten better not worse on this issue and it needs to be acknowledged. |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Jun 8, 2022 10:43:47 GMT -8
Oh by the way we've won 40+ games. That's an awful lot for just one pitcher. would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. Okay that’s cool but baseball players were so bad back then they allowed catching it on a bounce as an out. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Jun 8, 2022 10:44:50 GMT -8
For what it’s worth - the argument “against” that I’ve seen multiple times now is that while yes, he threw 36 pitches - but when you factor in his warm up session in the pen + warm ups on the mound before the 8th and 9th then that number is significantly higher. He warms up for bullpen sessions as well. He just doesn’t go out and throw 20-30 full speed pitches. It’s the same warm up routine. Yep.. I agree. Just saying that's the Keith Law canned response via twitter. By his math he'll have Hjerpe throwing 110 extra pitches not 36. |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Jun 8, 2022 10:46:51 GMT -8
Hasn’t it been pretty much proven that TJ and other issues are about childhood wear and tear and bad mechanics? Isn’t that why there’s so much pitch count control for young arms now?
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Post by beaver1989 on Jun 8, 2022 10:57:05 GMT -8
Old Hoss Radbourn would like a word: 1884 60 Wins. 12 Losses. 678.2 IP. 73 CG. 1.38 ERA. 2672 BF. 441 SO. Okay that’s cool but baseball players were so bad back then they allowed catching it on a bounce as an out. To get the game you like today, there had to be a beginning of the game. Then the game goes through an evolutionary process and gets refined again and again, over & over. Without those bad ballplayers of the past you wouldn't be watching the good ones today. |
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