|
|
Post by fridaynightlights on Jun 25, 2019 22:13:52 GMT -8
Having too many good players is a coaches dream. Of course transfers will happen. If OSU continues to recruit at a high level they will have transfers as well. Just the nature of the game these days.
|
|
|
|
Post by shelby on Jun 26, 2019 2:12:46 GMT -8
I see a distinct difference in how the athletes are used at each Institution. Gravy train plays 6 or 7 girls, with a real focus on going the entire way with an established starting 5 and little to no time for the rest of the squad.
Rueck has an established development process for each athlete and he works to get each of the physically ready team members a chance to succeed and earn more playing time over a season of play.
If I am an athlete that never sees the floor and is passed over in key stretches of key games, I can not only see the writing on the wall , but I can look at the history of this guy's coaching style and management of his squad.
|
|
|
|
Post by sparty on Jun 26, 2019 5:56:09 GMT -8
I think Charli Turner Thornes strict platoon approach is a rather interesting method but it did cost her a few games in affecting the flow of such.
|
|
|
|
Post by 411500 on Jun 26, 2019 8:19:14 GMT -8
I'm not a fan of the platoon approach in basketball for a few basic reasons.
First, it requires having 8 or 9 players on your roster who are of approximately equal abilities - otherwise when you sub out players A, B, & C you will be replacing them with players of lesser skills. That pretty much destroys the value of subbing. (Replacing 3 good players with 3 less-good players).
Second, platooning creates problems for the coach (and the players) when your team has one or two "Super" players. For example, in a rotation system coach would significantly reduce the floor time of players like Slocum and Pivec. If you didn't reduce their floor time, you would not have a complete player-rotation system.
Third, it makes it harder to keep a hot shooter on the floor for extended minutes. For example, when Kat Tudor hit for 34 against Oregon two seasons ago. Would a platoon system coach sit her when her rotation is up, or would she play out her hot hand?
Fourth, some players have to play themselves into rhythm and confidence....3 or 4 minutes of floor time gives them just enough time to break a sweat but not enough time to feel like they're into their game. It causes them to overthink their time on the floor. A platoon coach must possess excellent skills to convince these players to muscle thru their frustration and to stay focussed. But my experience is that a lot of good players never learn to do this.
So, these are some reasons why I don't believe the "platoon" substitution system.
GO BEAVS !!
|
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jun 26, 2019 9:07:48 GMT -8
I see a distinct difference in how the athletes are used at each Institution. Gravy train plays 6 or 7 girls, with a real focus on going the entire way with an established starting 5 and little to no time for the rest of the squad. Rueck has an established development process for each athlete and he works to get each of the physically ready team members a chance to succeed and earn more playing time over a season of play. If I am an athlete that never sees the floor and is passed over in key stretches of key games, I can not only see the writing on the wall , but I can look at the history of this guy's coaching style and management of his squad. Statistics show that the top minutes played by one player from each team (Pivec & Ionescu) was less than a minute different per game. The starting 5 for each team played about the same number of minutes per game, with the lowest average per game on the Oregon team being slightly more than 2 minutes more than the lowest per game average of the lowest average in the OSU starting 5 (28 versus 26 minutes per game). That would leave about the same number of minutes available to the next 5 per game for both teams. Seems Rueck likes his starting 5 as much as Graves does. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Jun 26, 2019 9:41:10 GMT -8
Ionescu averaged 35.9 MPG, Mik averaged 34.3 MPG. That is greater than 1 MPG. -- Rueck's Starters - 27.2 MPG (2 players over 28 MPG) Graves' Starters - 31.3 MPG (5 players over 28 MPG) That does not support your claim that the starters play on average about the same MPG, because UO's, on average, play over 4 minutes more per game. -- Our starting averaging the lowest MPG, Maddie, averaged 16.3 MPG, not 26, making the gap of average MPG between the starters averaging the least minutes 11.8 MPG. -- green85 Why was nothing you said correct? |
|
|
|
Post by fridaynightlights on Jun 26, 2019 9:50:48 GMT -8
yeah but Graves is a bad guy who doesn't care about his players and they are going to have a massive amount of transfers which will lead to the programs downfall. lol
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 26, 2019 10:28:38 GMT -8
Green, please compare the number of transfers from each program.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike74 on Jun 26, 2019 10:35:40 GMT -8
Ionescu averaged 35.9 MPG, Mik averaged 34.3 MPG. That is greater than 1 MPG. -- Rueck's Starters - 27.2 MPG (2 players over 28 MPG) Graves' Starters - 31.3 MPG (5 players over 28 MPG) That does not support your claim that the starters play on average about the same MPG, because UO's, on average, play over 4 minutes more per game. -- Our starting averaging the lowest MPG, Maddie, averaged 16.3 MPG, not 26, making the gap of average MPG between the starters averaging the least minutes 11.8 MPG. -- green85 Why was nothing you said correct? BeaverWBB - your stats are correct. A couple of points, though, explain some of the discrepancy: Oregon played most of the season with only 8 (and towards the end of the season, 7) healthy players; in 2017-18, with larger roster, Oregon & Oregon State starters played almost identical minutes. At crunch time against elite opponents, both Coach Rueck & Coach Graves primarily play 7-8 players. In tough games, neither coach uses platoon systems. Mike |
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Jun 26, 2019 11:23:43 GMT -8
They actually played most of the season with 9, not 8 players, and they had 8 for the last 10 games after Chavez went down. When you do get into looking at Conference only statistics, where both teams had 9 players, their starters averaged 31.7, ours averaged 30.0, so a much smaller gap when both teams had the same amount of players. Our players averaging the lowest MPG were freshmen who came in very raw, but theirs were players who had three years of experience.
Furthermore, I think the largest difference was the fact that we didn't have a proven post player. It is rare that we have a starter averaging less than 20 MPG like we had in Maddie. That skews the results a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Jun 26, 2019 11:54:07 GMT -8
It would also be a mistake to think Oregon is one of the few schools with high transfer rates. We are one of the few top-10 schools that doesn’t see a lot of transfers out. UConn has a ton, Louisville has a ton, Mississippi State has a lot, Notre Dame has their fair share.
|
|
|
|
Post by shelby on Jun 26, 2019 12:08:57 GMT -8
Okay, I admit it, I dislike Graves.
He did earn my respect, last week for actually eating and swallowing, George Horton. I was getting fatigued looking at Hirty’s stomach. Now I can just gaze at Graves and realize that it is the combined gut of two humans.
|
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jun 26, 2019 13:03:35 GMT -8
I see a distinct difference in how the athletes are used at each Institution. Gravy train plays 6 or 7 girls, with a real focus on going the entire way with an established starting 5 and little to no time for the rest of the squad. Rueck has an established development process for each athlete and he works to get each of the physically ready team members a chance to succeed and earn more playing time over a season of play. If I am an athlete that never sees the floor and is passed over in key stretches of key games, I can not only see the writing on the wall , but I can look at the history of this guy's coaching style and management of his squad. Statistics show that the top minutes played by one player from each team (Pivec & Ionescu) was less than a minute different per game. The starting 5 for each team played about the same number of minutes per game, with the lowest average per game on the Oregon team being slightly more than 2 minutes more than the lowest per game average of the lowest average in the OSU starting 5 (28 versus 26 minutes per game). That would leave about the same number of minutes available to the next 5 per game for both teams. Seems Rueck likes his starting 5 as much as Graves does. You have to remember that "facts" mean little to those that live to disparage other programs, especially those from Eugene. For some reason intellect disappears for some, thinking that such comments mean squat, and make OSU superior in some way. In reality those fans actually disparage OSU and what they "say" they represent, a better fan base! In this case, like ucks or Graves, it has become a formidable program with great recruiting that has thrived despite the transfers. Which by the way, these same fans will state is the new norm for any other program. For SR and OSU to become a superior program year in and year out they need to play and beat the best, whether it's UCONN, ND, or conference foes. The competitive fun bashing is one thing. The factual criticisms of factual misgivings also are normal. But, the rest gets old, is petty, and makes the OSU fan base as a whole look bad. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Jun 26, 2019 13:11:05 GMT -8
Statistics show that the top minutes played by one player from each team (Pivec & Ionescu) was less than a minute different per game. The starting 5 for each team played about the same number of minutes per game, with the lowest average per game on the Oregon team being slightly more than 2 minutes more than the lowest per game average of the lowest average in the OSU starting 5 (28 versus 26 minutes per game). That would leave about the same number of minutes available to the next 5 per game for both teams. Seems Rueck likes his starting 5 as much as Graves does. You have to remember that "facts" mean little to those that live to disparage other programs, especially those from Eugene. For some reason intellect disappears for some, thinking that such comments mean squat, and make OSU superior in some way. In reality those fans actually disparage OSU and what they "say" they represent, a better fan base! In this case, like ucks or Graves, it has become a formidable program with great recruiting that has thrived despite the transfers. Which by the way, these same fans will state is the new norm for any other program. For SR and OSU to become a superior program year in and year out they need to play and beat the best, whether it's UCONN, ND, or conference foes. The competitive fun bashing is one thing. The factual criticisms of factual misgivings also are normal. But, the rest gets old, is petty, and makes the OSU fan base as a whole look bad. Facts like green85’s of course mean little, because they came out of nowhere. I posted how every fact stated was incorrect. Of course, there are reasons for the discrepancies, as myself and mike74 had talked about, but green85 came in out of nowhere with a bunch of fake facts. I’ll be the first one here to say Graves is a great recruiter and a good coach too. Transfers are part of most programs, as I mentioned above -- especially when you have a roster of 15 and a good chunk are 5*. |
|
|
|
Post by green85 on Jun 26, 2019 13:32:46 GMT -8
Ionescu averaged 35.9 MPG, Mik averaged 34.3 MPG. That is greater than 1 MPG. > Sorry. 1.6 minutes per game is a lot different than what I posted. -- Rueck's Starters - 27.2 MPG (2 players over 28 MPG) Graves' Starters - 31.3 MPG (5 players over 28 MPG) That does not support your claim that the starters play on average about the same MPG, because UO's, on average, play over 4 minutes more per game. > Sorry. I took the top 5 players minutes. Oregon's top 5 minutes per game players = an average of 31.28 minutes played versus the top 5 minutes played per game for OSU at 29.48 minutes per game. That difference of 1.8 minutes per game for the rest of the team is not much. -- Our starting averaging the lowest MPG, Maddie, averaged 16.3 MPG, not 26, making the gap of average MPG between the starters averaging the least minutes 11.8 MPG. > Again, I took the top minutes players for each team. The lowest UO top five MPPG = 28.1 minutes compared to OSU 25.1 MPPG. -- green85 Why was nothing you said correct? > I'll stand by the point that there is not this huge difference in minutes played shared among 10 or 12 players. And comparing the top 5 MPPG for both teams one might not find a comparison of coaching styles evident that would lead a recruit to believe they will get lots of minutes when 4 of the starting 5 on either team returns the following year. > I'll do better with my math in my next post. |
|
