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Post by NativeBeav on Mar 15, 2022 15:58:41 GMT -8
And you believe that is a good thing, correct? Given their weak attempt at journalism, yes, it is good. Read the Wikipedia entry for an idea of the unethical things they have done there. You may think that I say this because I am on the left, but that’s not true. We need a higher quality of journalism in this country everywhere. There are ways that they can continue to get their message out without being a “news” network. Nit picking I know, but Wikipedia is by no means a gold standard on truth. Entries can be made from a variety of sources, and has been shown to be unreliable. Second highlighted sentence? Here, Here! |
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Post by NativeBeav on Mar 15, 2022 16:11:50 GMT -8
Vote by mail, although easier than showing up in person, has it's issues, as we have seen.
When states make it a point to do everything they can to promote VBM, to make it easy and convenient for its citizens to VBM, and not intentionally throw roadblocks intending to suppress turnout (ie, one dropoff spot in Harris County, Texas), vote by mail is safe, convenient, and works wonderfully, as proven over decades in Oregon, Colorado and other states. There are no issues with VBM in Oregon. None. Our last presidential election had the largest percentage of VBM in history. And it was also the safest, with no serious fraud shown anywhere, according to Trumps's own cyber security chief and attorney general, and SOSs of numerous other states. One person who refuses to acknowledge he got his ass kicked promulgated a massive lie that millions of his sheep followers swallowed hook, line and sinker. And I'm sorry, but voting is a right, not a privilege. Yes, your actions can lead to your right to vote. But voting is not a privilege, which by definition is "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group." It is a basic right of American citizenship and the bedrock of our democracy. First sentence - I will use our moderator's line - prove it.
Second sentence - I agree - especially the word citizenship. I think we are saying the same thing, in different ways. Either we start with a basic right of voting with citizenship that you can lose by your own stupid actions, or it is a privilege, granted to all legal citizens, as long as they are willing to do a few basic things - like register, and show some ID, proving you and your ballot match.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 15, 2022 16:48:28 GMT -8
Vote by mail, although easier than showing up in person, has it's issues, as we have seen.
When states make it a point to do everything they can to promote VBM, to make it easy and convenient for its citizens to VBM, and not intentionally throw roadblocks intending to suppress turnout (ie, one dropoff spot in Harris County, Texas), vote by mail is safe, convenient, and works wonderfully, as proven over decades in Oregon, Colorado and other states. There are no issues with VBM in Oregon. None. Our last presidential election had the largest percentage of VBM in history. And it was also the safest, with no serious fraud shown anywhere, according to Trumps's own cyber security chief and attorney general, and SOSs of numerous other states. One person who refuses to acknowledge he got his ass kicked promulgated a massive lie that millions of his sheep followers swallowed hook, line and sinker. And I'm sorry, but voting is a right, not a privilege. Yes, your actions can lead to your right to vote. But voting is not a privilege, which by definition is "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group." It is a basic right of American citizenship and the bedrock of our democracy. Oregon has the same issues with VBM as every other state practicing it. To deny it is silly. My neighbor is uppity up in USPS and there are MANY instances of misplaced ballots, ballots incorrectly delivered, multiple ballots delivered, and there is no verification process to verify the actual person still resides at the address. To me none of that is "fraudulent" or effects an outcome (unless we're talking a small town election with a very low voting base). But, it happens regularly and is an issue never really fixed as much as getting complete ballots collected. The procedural issues create a ripe environment for conspiracy theorists. More than 2,400,000 Oregonians voted by mail in the 2020 election. How many ballot problems were there? A hundred? A thousand? Still an tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast. Oregon VBM is safe. www.wweek.com/news/2020/10/19/new-legislative-fiscal-office-review-of-oregon-vote-by-mail-voter-fraud-is-exceedingly-rare/ |
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 15, 2022 16:54:35 GMT -8
Oregon has the same issues with VBM as every other state practicing it. To deny it is silly. My neighbor is uppity up in USPS and there are MANY instances of misplaced ballots, ballots incorrectly delivered, multiple ballots delivered, and there is no verification process to verify the actual person still resides at the address. To me none of that is "fraudulent" or effects an outcome (unless we're talking a small town election with a very low voting base). But, it happens regularly and is an issue never really fixed as much as getting complete ballots collected. The procedural issues create a ripe environment for conspiracy theorists. More than 2,400,000 Oregonians voted by mail in the 2020 election. How many ballot problems were there? A hundred? A thousand? Still an tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast. Oregon VBM is safe. www.wweek.com/news/2020/10/19/new-legislative-fiscal-office-review-of-oregon-vote-by-mail-voter-fraud-is-exceedingly-rare/I’m more worried about the Woodstock’s sex trafficking ring in this town. |
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Post by NativeBeav on Mar 15, 2022 17:31:54 GMT -8
My friend, you seem to be missing the point that just because the government doesn't care what you wear doesn't mean your employer doesn't. The government (ie, the Constitution) doesn't weigh in on the matter. Cities say you have to wear clothes when you leave your property, but they don't exactly say what you must wear. Businesses decide what you have to wear: shirt and shoes; or a jacket and tie. And companies also decide what you should wear to your job. And for someone like Gundy--a high profile employee who represents the university during and out of work hours--more is expected. It happens all the time. A DUI will get a coach fired or at least reprimanded. Why? It's his time. Expectations are different. Your definition of herd immunity is not exactly correct. I've never had measles, mumps, rubella, polio, but there is herd immunity at least in the US due to vaccinations. Some people are medically unable to receive vaccinations, but these people are protected because most Americans have had the vaccinations, so the diseases can't easily find a host. People working together can eliminate these viruses and protect those who cannot join in the fight. Penn and Teller do an excellent segment on this, if you want to laugh and learn. Warner Media (formerly Time-Warner Cable) announced yesterday they are dropping OAN from their platform. That should about finish OAN. Awfully convenient that Warner Media owns CNN - So, another way of saying it might be like this - Warner Media, owner of CNN, dropping OAN from their platform. To quote Pete Carroll "I am shocked" - lol. My prediction is OANN will find other avenue's to be successful, and it will be a good thing to not be owned by the same conglomerate that owns CNN |
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Post by Werebeaver on Mar 15, 2022 17:44:18 GMT -8
Warner Media (formerly Time-Warner Cable) announced yesterday they are dropping OAN from their platform. That should about finish OAN. Awfully convenient that Warner Media owns CNN - So, another way of saying it might be like this - Warner Media, owner of CNN, dropping OAN from their platform. To quote Pete Carroll "I am shocked" - lol. My prediction is OANN will find other avenue's to be successful, and it will be a good thing to not be owned by the same conglomerate that owns CNN  Criswell Predicts |
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Post by irimi on Mar 15, 2022 17:47:37 GMT -8
I’m more worried about the Woodstock’s sex trafficking ring in this town. I can get pizza and a little?! |
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 15, 2022 17:50:28 GMT -8
I’m more worried about the Woodstock’s sex trafficking ring in this town. I can get pizza and a little?! Suds and suds is code for something else. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 15, 2022 18:47:51 GMT -8
Oregon has the same issues with VBM as every other state practicing it. To deny it is silly. My neighbor is uppity up in USPS and there are MANY instances of misplaced ballots, ballots incorrectly delivered, multiple ballots delivered, and there is no verification process to verify the actual person still resides at the address. To me none of that is "fraudulent" or effects an outcome (unless we're talking a small town election with a very low voting base). But, it happens regularly and is an issue never really fixed as much as getting complete ballots collected. The procedural issues create a ripe environment for conspiracy theorists. More than 2,400,000 Oregonians voted by mail in the 2020 election. How many ballot problems were there? A hundred? A thousand? Still an tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast. Oregon VBM is safe. www.wweek.com/news/2020/10/19/new-legislative-fiscal-office-review-of-oregon-vote-by-mail-voter-fraud-is-exceedingly-rare/I have 2,374,321 votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election. Oregon's own statistical analysis of its own voting system shows that the vote-by-mail system works 94% of the time. But there were ballot problems for the other 6%, a statistically significant number. If Oregon's self-reported ballot problem rate is correct, that would account for 151,552 votes. Unless Oregon's internal numbers are incorrect, that is not a "tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast." That would be more than enough to turn old Oregon-4 red. Oregon went from D+0.44% in 2000 to D+16.35% in the eight years after vote-by-mail. That also appears to be statistically-significant change in the voting of residents that corresponds with two major changes in voting. Correlation is not causation, but c'mon, man! I disagree with you 100% that Oregon VBM is currently "safe," and I have had my doubts about it for the 22 years that it has been in existence. Why the heck hasn't there been a major overhaul of the system since 2005? If it's not broke the wrong way, I guess don't fix it? You conflate fraud with ballot problems. Those are two different issues. Criminal ballot fraud does not capture all fraud and it certainly does not capture all ballot problems. Plus, each criminal voting fraud conviction can often involve several dozens of votes. All you have to do is look to the Wisconsin nursing home voting scandal. Around 2.8% of the population is in nursing homes. More than 50% of nursing home residents lack the cognitive ability to vote. But you saw dozens of nursing homes in Wisconsin, where more than 95% of residents voted. How is that possible, unless, as the special counsel in Racine County found, there is statewide "widespread election fraud?" Oregon is a great state, one of the best. But given election outcomes alone, I am not moving back anytime soon. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Mar 15, 2022 19:06:38 GMT -8
I have 2,374,321 votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election. Oregon's own statistical analysis of its own voting system shows that the vote-by-mail system works 94% of the time. But there were ballot problems for the other 6%, a statistically significant number. If Oregon's self-reported ballot problem rate is correct, that would account for 151,552 votes. Unless Oregon's internal numbers are incorrect, that is not a "tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast." That would be more than enough to turn old Oregon-4 red. Oregon went from D+0.44% in 2000 to D+16.35% in the eight years after vote-by-mail. That also appears to be statistically-significant change in the voting of residents that corresponds with two major changes in voting. Correlation is not causation, but c'mon, man! I disagree with you 100% that Oregon VBM is currently "safe," and I have had my doubts about it for the 22 years that it has been in existence. Why the heck hasn't there been a major overhaul of the system since 2005? If it's not broke the wrong way, I guess don't fix it? You conflate fraud with ballot problems. Those are two different issues. Criminal ballot fraud does not capture all fraud and it certainly does not capture all ballot problems. Plus, each criminal voting fraud conviction can often involve several dozens of votes. All you have to do is look to the Wisconsin nursing home voting scandal. Around 2.8% of the population is in nursing homes. More than 50% of nursing home residents lack the cognitive ability to vote. But you saw dozens of nursing homes in Wisconsin, where more than 95% of residents voted. How is that possible, unless, as the special counsel in Racine County found, there is statewide "widespread election fraud?" Oregon is a great state, one of the best. But given election outcomes alone, I am not moving back anytime soon. To be fair, you'd have to compare the ballot anomalies under the previous in-person voting system against VBM for a true comparison. In-person voting was subject to the same human fallibilities as VBM. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 15, 2022 19:28:00 GMT -8
I have 2,374,321 votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election. Oregon's own statistical analysis of its own voting system shows that the vote-by-mail system works 94% of the time. But there were ballot problems for the other 6%, a statistically significant number. If Oregon's self-reported ballot problem rate is correct, that would account for 151,552 votes. Unless Oregon's internal numbers are incorrect, that is not a "tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast." That would be more than enough to turn old Oregon-4 red. Oregon went from D+0.44% in 2000 to D+16.35% in the eight years after vote-by-mail. That also appears to be statistically-significant change in the voting of residents that corresponds with two major changes in voting. Correlation is not causation, but c'mon, man! I disagree with you 100% that Oregon VBM is currently "safe," and I have had my doubts about it for the 22 years that it has been in existence. Why the heck hasn't there been a major overhaul of the system since 2005? If it's not broke the wrong way, I guess don't fix it? You conflate fraud with ballot problems. Those are two different issues. Criminal ballot fraud does not capture all fraud and it certainly does not capture all ballot problems. Plus, each criminal voting fraud conviction can often involve several dozens of votes. All you have to do is look to the Wisconsin nursing home voting scandal. Around 2.8% of the population is in nursing homes. More than 50% of nursing home residents lack the cognitive ability to vote. But you saw dozens of nursing homes in Wisconsin, where more than 95% of residents voted. How is that possible, unless, as the special counsel in Racine County found, there is statewide "widespread election fraud?" Oregon is a great state, one of the best. But given election outcomes alone, I am not moving back anytime soon. To be fair, you'd have to compare the ballot anomalies under the previous in-person voting system against VBM for a true comparison. In-person voting was subject to the same human fallibilities as VBM. You are generally correct, but there are different fallibilities. Errors in sending and receiving ballots and errors due to a lack of ability to be provided with proper marking devices tend to be concentrated in VBM states. And you have issues with requiring the VBM states to maintain 100% correct voting rolls prior to all elections. Other states don't generally have those fallibilities either. Or they do, but they are less problematic. It's generally a matter of preference. However, I don't like people overstating Oregon's VBM system. It is a flawed system, more flawed then other systems. And if I knew more, possibly less flawed than others. I tend to like Arizona's hybrid system over Oregon's pure VBM system, but you could make a terrible case that Oregon's VBM system is better. You would be wrong IMHO, but you could always make the case. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 15, 2022 19:48:32 GMT -8
I have 2,374,321 votes counted in the 2020 Presidential election. Oregon's own statistical analysis of its own voting system shows that the vote-by-mail system works 94% of the time. But there were ballot problems for the other 6%, a statistically significant number. If Oregon's self-reported ballot problem rate is correct, that would account for 151,552 votes. Unless Oregon's internal numbers are incorrect, that is not a "tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of total votes cast." That would be more than enough to turn old Oregon-4 red. Oregon went from D+0.44% in 2000 to D+16.35% in the eight years after vote-by-mail. That also appears to be statistically-significant change in the voting of residents that corresponds with two major changes in voting. Correlation is not causation, but c'mon, man! I disagree with you 100% that Oregon VBM is currently "safe," and I have had my doubts about it for the 22 years that it has been in existence. Why the heck hasn't there been a major overhaul of the system since 2005? If it's not broke the wrong way, I guess don't fix it? You conflate fraud with ballot problems. Those are two different issues. Criminal ballot fraud does not capture all fraud and it certainly does not capture all ballot problems. Plus, each criminal voting fraud conviction can often involve several dozens of votes. All you have to do is look to the Wisconsin nursing home voting scandal. Around 2.8% of the population is in nursing homes. More than 50% of nursing home residents lack the cognitive ability to vote. But you saw dozens of nursing homes in Wisconsin, where more than 95% of residents voted. How is that possible, unless, as the special counsel in Racine County found, there is statewide "widespread election fraud?" Oregon is a great state, one of the best. But given election outcomes alone, I am not moving back anytime soon. In other words, our guy lost. By a lot. Had to be cheating. |
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Post by TheGlove on Mar 15, 2022 19:51:47 GMT -8
This thread is done.
Get back to your regularly scheduled programming…
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