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Post by rgeorge on Feb 22, 2022 23:11:06 GMT -8
Curious question...I'm not sure how long this board has existed, but it seems there are more negative comments on players than there are on positive comments. I know, that is the nature of most humans, so I get it, but I think we former basketball 'superstars' and 'experts' always think our opinion is right. Did we all complain about Jamie, Syd, and the Hammer the way we do about players now, or is that just a product of the team not performing as well? I'm also curious as to how much complaining there was about Marie before her senior season. I'm guessing there was a lot, but her Senior season was one of the best ever by a Beav. Same with Aleah. The threads about her dribbling around too much got a bit old to read, and continued into her senior season, which again, was one of the best ever by a Beav. Did we complain about Syd's TO's? She had 390 (yes 390) in her career, and let's not forget she missed some games due to injury. Oh, by the way, Catlin Clark had 7 TO's at half time in yesterday's game... yes, 7, at half time. If I'm SR I would still take her next season if she wanted to transfer here. These players and the coaching staff are all a work in progress, and there isn't anything wrong with us voicing our opinions on how we think a player, a coach, or a team, should work on improvements, but we should also realize we are entitled to our wrong opinion, and often we are wrong. We surmise that because one coach, or player, or team, does something a certain way, that the team, coach, or player we root for should do it the same way. There's more than one path to the end goal. I'll end this post with Kennedy Brown's own words to OSU students. Anyone at the games near the student section know what she's referring to? Funny thing, as those regulars to WBB are aware, there is no real student section. There are groups of kids that sit together, but it's intermingled with adults. Typically older, but sometimes families. I have no idea what was said or if it's been ongoing. But, you'd think she'd have to be almost searching out the commentators the way fans sit to know it's students?! It got me wondering if there's a student or two, or small group that for whatever reason has some "issue" with her?? Or a specific teammate?? Just seems strange and out of the blue. |
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 22, 2022 23:25:35 GMT -8
Curious question...I'm not sure how long this board has existed, but it seems there are more negative comments on players than there are on positive comments. I know, that is the nature of most humans, so I get it, but I think we former basketball 'superstars' and 'experts' always think our opinion is right. Did we all complain about Jamie, Syd, and the Hammer the way we do about players now, or is that just a product of the team not performing as well? I'm also curious as to how much complaining there was about Marie before her senior season. I'm guessing there was a lot, but her Senior season was one of the best ever by a Beav. Same with Aleah. The threads about her dribbling around too much got a bit old to read, and continued into her senior season, which again, was one of the best ever by a Beav. Did we complain about Syd's TO's? She had 390 (yes 390) in her career, and let's not forget she missed some games due to injury. Oh, by the way, Catlin Clark had 7 TO's at half time in yesterday's game... yes, 7, at half time. If I'm SR I would still take her next season if she wanted to transfer here. These players and the coaching staff are all a work in progress, and there isn't anything wrong with us voicing our opinions on how we think a player, a coach, or a team, should work on improvements, but we should also realize we are entitled to our wrong opinion, and often we are wrong. We surmise that because one coach, or player, or team, does something a certain way, that the team, coach, or player we root for should do it the same way. There's more than one path to the end goal. I'll end this post with Kennedy Brown's own words to OSU students. Anyone at the games near the student section know what she's referring to? A couple of games ago there was one loud mouth who was yelling stuff toward the players, but I couldn't understand what he was saying. Just got the feeling it was wrong headed but not sure. Then I heard a comment about a Beav not getting their "fat ass" back on defense. I think that is when others also could understand him because several people yelled at him to shut up or else. There were no further comments from him that I could tell. |
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Post by jimbob on Feb 22, 2022 23:51:05 GMT -8
I'm guessing just a couple of students that had a few too many beers before coming to the game....Thanks for calling them out KB and thanks to those fans that tried to shut them up!
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 23, 2022 11:10:56 GMT -8
The complaining has been here as long as this message board or others like it have existed: - I recall the final-four year (Ruth H senior year) that people were sure that the team would collapse the following year with Marie G at center and that there was a desperate need to go recruit another post. Of course, Freshman Marie G was not Senior Marie G, but I remember some interviews with players that year saying that they liked playing with Marie because the team could play more up tempo with her. And Marie turned out to be pretty good.
- There were complaints in Pivec's sophomore year when she had to play point that she was experiencing a sophomore slump and that she was not as good as she had seemed her Freshman year without Syd to back her. Rather than recognizing that she was playing out of position out of necessity. And Mikayla turned out to be pretty good.
- The complaints about Corosdale have been there since her Freshman year when she played every minute (I think?) in wins against both Tennessee and Baylor in their 6-seed run into the elite 8. People focus only on her points scored, and don't recognize all the other stuff she does away from the ball, especially on defense. Similar criticisms were frequently there for Gabby Hanson where people looking only at her stats rather than how she could lock down opponents (she was Kelsey Plum's kryptonite as we probably all remember). Both Taya and Gabby were pretty good.
The negativity is the nature of anonymous social media. Or sports commentary. Or people. boston, thanks for taking the time to address my question. I wasn't on this board, or any other WBB board during the time of the final four, or the successful years surrounding that year. I was curious what the criticism was like then, as it is part of our nature as humans. Were fans critical of Syd, or Jamie? I should check some other boards and see what fans are saying. TVO is criticized because of her 76 TO's which is definitely more than you would like, but great players often have a lot of TO's. Catlin Clark already has 95 this year. Olivia Miles has 101. Haley Jones has 68. Emily Engstler with Louisville has 69. Texas has two players over 60. I should check their WBB boards to see what fans are saying. Syd had over 100 TO's in two different seasons. Jamie had over 90 twice. Mik had 100 in 2017/2018, and Marie had 88 that year. Yes, the two stars of that team combined for 188 TO's. It's easy to say TVO needs to cut down on TO's, and I wish she would, but she's the main threat on this team. I'd take every single other player I mentioned in this thread, and be glad to have them on my team, turnovers and all. |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 23, 2022 11:28:43 GMT -8
The complaining has been here as long as this message board or others like it have existed: - I recall the final-four year (Ruth H senior year) that people were sure that the team would collapse the following year with Marie G at center and that there was a desperate need to go recruit another post. Of course, Freshman Marie G was not Senior Marie G, but I remember some interviews with players that year saying that they liked playing with Marie because the team could play more up tempo with her. And Marie turned out to be pretty good.
- There were complaints in Pivec's sophomore year when she had to play point that she was experiencing a sophomore slump and that she was not as good as she had seemed her Freshman year without Syd to back her. Rather than recognizing that she was playing out of position out of necessity. And Mikayla turned out to be pretty good.
- The complaints about Corosdale have been there since her Freshman year when she played every minute (I think?) in wins against both Tennessee and Baylor in their 6-seed run into the elite 8. People focus only on her points scored, and don't recognize all the other stuff she does away from the ball, especially on defense. Similar criticisms were frequently there for Gabby Hanson where people looking only at her stats rather than how she could lock down opponents (she was Kelsey Plum's kryptonite as we probably all remember). Both Taya and Gabby were pretty good.
The negativity is the nature of anonymous social media. Or sports commentary. Or people. boston, thanks for taking the time to address my question. I wasn't on this board, or any other WBB board during the time of the final four, or the successful years surrounding that year. I was curious what the criticism was like then, as it is part of our nature as humans. Were fans critical of Syd, or Jamie? I should check some other boards and see what fans are saying. TVO is criticized because of her 76 TO's which is definitely more than you would like, but great players often have a lot of TO's. Catlin Clark already has 95 this year. Olivia Miles has 101. Haley Jones has 68. Emily Engstler with Louisville has 69. Texas has two players over 60. I should check their WBB boards to see what fans are saying. Syd had over 100 TO's in two different seasons. Jamie had over 90 twice. Mik had 100 in 2017/2018, and Marie had 88 that year. Yes, the two stars of that team combined for 188 TO's. It's easy to say TVO needs to cut down on TO's, and I wish she would, but she's the main threat on this team. I'd take every single other player I mentioned in this thread, and be glad to have them on my team, turnovers and all. Take into consideration that TO #s don't stand alone. I do not know enough about some of the other programs mentioned, but TO/# of possessions makes a bit of difference. A team like Furd is up and done the floor much more than say, OSU. So the number of TOs may be higher, but not as detrimental in terms of overall possessions lost. In line with that is the # of TOs a player has in terms of how much she handles the ball... in the half court and under pressure. Some players are a TO machine without a lot of touches. Others have high #s because they are the primary ballhandler and initiator of the offense. Another factor in the TO stat is the type of team defense one plays in. OSU rarely wind the TO battle. If you turn other teams over you gain possessions, again mitigated your own TOs. OSU's style and consistently losing the TO battle is a consistent issue, especially considering OSU is not playing at some uptempo pace. TOs are an issue every coach addresses. I do not think the number by an individual player can be studied as a stand alone statistic. But, you'd hope a team would turn it over less than their opponents and have a positive A/TO. |
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 28, 2022 13:58:21 GMT -8
I wasn't sure where to post this, but there is a thread on twitter about Catlin Clark in the running for POY. One poster mentioned that Clark has 146 turnovers this year. Yes, she has a lot....as do most GREAT players. Another poster responded with this: Career TO leaders in the NBA. Yeah, you probably know all of them. Why? Because they are all great players. Unless you can't see it here, but number one in career TO's is Labron James, followed by Karl Malone, Moses Malone, and John Stockton. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 28, 2022 14:24:42 GMT -8
The stat that I tend to look at concerning lead or PGs is assist to turnover ratio. A good ratio is 2 to 1, sometimes you even see close to 3 to 1. Clark's ratio is close to 2 to 1. 8.3 apg to 4.7 turnovers. TVO has a 1 to 1 ratio of 3.1 apg to 3.1 turnovers. The only player on the team who has a positive assist to turnover ratio is Corosdale 2.2 apg to 1.5 Turnovers.
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 28, 2022 15:21:43 GMT -8
Yeah, it's pretty tough to get assist when your forwards struggle inside, and your 3pt shooters have as low a percentage as the Beavs did this year.
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