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Post by beaveragain on Feb 22, 2022 8:32:11 GMT -8
Could someone explain to me why they are convinced that TVO is a bad PG? Yes, she needs to learn to break the double team. And no one else gets double teamed. It seems to me that other teams are aware that TVO is a huge part of the scoring when she is on the court, and they would prefer anyone else have the ball. So your solution to things is to do what other teams want, which is to not have the ball in TVO's hands? TvO is #1 in the entire PAC-12 in Turnovers per game In pac-12 play she is not. She is in 5th place, along with many other PG's in the conference. And in assists she is in 11th place. And in assists/TO's she is a little below Rogers, one of those quick PG's people keep slobbering over, and TVO is ahead of Jones who is usually Stanfords PG. Two juniors but TVO is the bad one? Still don't get it. She's a Frosh, give her a break. She and the team are learning how they play together. And I'd say a good chunk of her TO's are the result of her team mates standing there watching the ball go by their nose because they didn't have their hands up anticipating the possibility of a pass.
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 22, 2022 9:13:10 GMT -8
Curious question...I'm not sure how long this board has existed, but it seems there are more negative comments on players than there are on positive comments. I know, that is the nature of most humans, so I get it, but I think we former basketball 'superstars' and 'experts' always think our opinion is right. Did we all complain about Jamie, Syd, and the Hammer the way we do about players now, or is that just a product of the team not performing as well?
I'm also curious as to how much complaining there was about Marie before her senior season. I'm guessing there was a lot, but her Senior season was one of the best ever by a Beav. Same with Aleah. The threads about her dribbling around too much got a bit old to read, and continued into her senior season, which again, was one of the best ever by a Beav. Did we complain about Syd's TO's? She had 390 (yes 390) in her career, and let's not forget she missed some games due to injury. Oh, by the way, Catlin Clark had 7 TO's at half time in yesterday's game... yes, 7, at half time. If I'm SR I would still take her next season if she wanted to transfer here.
These players and the coaching staff are all a work in progress, and there isn't anything wrong with us voicing our opinions on how we think a player, a coach, or a team, should work on improvements, but we should also realize we are entitled to our wrong opinion, and often we are wrong. We surmise that because one coach, or player, or team, does something a certain way, that the team, coach, or player we root for should do it the same way. There's more than one path to the end goal.
I'll end this post with Kennedy Brown's own words to OSU students.
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Post by lotrader on Feb 22, 2022 9:16:03 GMT -8
TvO is #1 in the entire PAC-12 in Turnovers per game In pac-12 play she is not. She is in 5th place, along with many other PG's in the conference. And in assists she is in 11th place. And in assists/TO's she is a little below Rogers, one of those quick PG's people keep slobbering over, and TVO is ahead of Jones who is usually Stanfords PG. Two juniors but TVO is the bad one? Still don't get it. She's a Frosh, give her a break. She and the team are learning how they play together. And I'd say a good chunk of her TO's are the result of her team mates standing there watching the ball go by their nose because they didn't have their hands up anticipating the possibility of a pass. I refer you to page 9 of the PAC-12_WBB_Stats.pdf report on the PAC-12.com website: static.pac-12.com/sports/basketball-w/pdf/21-22/Pac-12_WBB_Stats.pdf. TvO is #1 in Turnover average per game at 3.30. I am a huge TvO fan, and love her at the wing vs PG. Perhaps she will end up being our permanent PG in the seasons to come, but she will need to improve on this stat.
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 22, 2022 9:25:12 GMT -8
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Post by markwbeaver on Feb 22, 2022 9:45:49 GMT -8
Curious question...I'm not sure how long this board has existed, but it seems there are more negative comments on players than there are on positive comments. I know, that is the nature of most humans, so I get it, but I think we former basketball 'superstars' and 'experts' always think our opinion is right. Did we all complain about Jamie, Syd, and the Hammer the way we do about players now, or is that just a product of the team not performing as well? I'm also curious as to how much complaining there was about Marie before her senior season. I'm guessing there was a lot, but her Senior season was one of the best ever by a Beav. Same with Aleah. The threads about her dribbling around too much got a bit old to read, and continued into her senior season, which again, was one of the best ever by a Beav. Did we complain about Syd's TO's? She had 390 (yes 390) in her career, and let's not forget she missed some games due to injury. Oh, by the way, Catlin Clark had 7 TO's at half time in yesterday's game... yes, 7, at half time. If I'm SR I would still take her next season if she wanted to transfer here. These players and the coaching staff are all a work in progress, and there isn't anything wrong with us voicing our opinions on how we think a player, a coach, or a team, should work on improvements, but we should also realize we are entitled to our wrong opinion, and often we are wrong. We surmise that because one coach, or player, or team, does something a certain way, that the team, coach, or player we root for should do it the same way. There's more than one path to the end goal. I'll end this post with Kennedy Brown's own words to OSU students. Great post, rmancarl. It seems like the threads are much longer losses (at least the parts that talk about the game) and are consumed with criticisms of the coaches and players. Many who comment on the failings of players don't seem to have much to say after a Beaver win.
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Post by markwbeaver on Feb 22, 2022 9:48:03 GMT -8
I don't know quite how I messed that up, but my words are just the last three lines. Rmancarl gets credit for the brilliant stuff.
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Post by billthebeav on Feb 22, 2022 10:35:32 GMT -8
It’s a shame Kennedy would feel the need to post that.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 22, 2022 13:12:41 GMT -8
Could someone explain to me why they are convinced that TVO is a bad PG? Yes, she needs to learn to break the double team. And no one else gets double teamed. It seems to me that other teams are aware that TVO is a huge part of the scoring when she is on the court, and they would prefer anyone else have the ball. So your solution to things is to do what other teams want, which is to not have the ball in TVO's hands? TvO is #1 in the entire PAC-12 in Turnovers per game Yeah, it doesn't take a great amount of hoops knowledge/experience to see that she's not a PG in terms of her natural ability and skill level. A maybe poor comparison to some, but she is as much a PG as Lucas. Both are pure scorers, both have average to below handles. TVO as of now appears to be a much better passer. Lucas a bit more athletic in terms of quicks, hops for their respective "sexes". Both are below average or worse defenders. At times terrible!! TVO much better at creating her own shot off the dribble in the mid-range. TVO is sometimes too creative in terms of delivering the ball to those that can handle it on the move. Part of being a great PG is not only seeing the floor, and making great decisions, but those involve knowing your teammates capabilities. Not everyone can handle a bullet on the move. Delivery into a crowd that puts a teammate in a no win situation is also an issue. But, both have been put into positions that at times that do not fit, yet have weathered the storm. TVO having a much larger upside as I think with time she'll improve on her conditioning (decision making when tired, especially on D is poor), quickness, and build. I have no idea what SR's plans are, but from what I see a team with a PG (like those that give his teams fits) with TVO and AJ on the wings would be a much tougher team to defend. And, a suitable PG that is athletic/quick would take some defensive pressure off TVO. All in all TVO is trying to do too much at times... handle the PG leadership role and to carry the scoring burden. I'm hoping that a combo of two PGs head to OSU this offseason.
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Post by lotrader on Feb 22, 2022 14:42:54 GMT -8
rgeorge: AMEN to "I'm hoping that a combo of two PGs head to OSU this offseason."
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Post by sparty on Feb 22, 2022 15:51:10 GMT -8
It’s a shame Kennedy would feel the need to post that. Are these students trashing their game or is it other reasons. That is a shame but not surprising at all.
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Post by grayman on Feb 22, 2022 17:43:02 GMT -8
Obviously what one or more "fans" were saying to the Beavers was bad enough to spark Kennedy to make that post. I seriously doubt that anything being said on this board drops even remotely close to the level she experienced. Certainly not in this thread. A discussion about whether TVO fits better at point or shooting guard, even with opinions about her quickness or turnovers, is completely legit. I doubt that anyone here thinks that TVO is anything but one of the best players in the Pac-12. But every player has limitations. It's not an attack on a player to express your opinion on those limitations as long as you don't call names or whatever. Many people have mentioned Kennedy Brown and wondered about her development or skills at this point in her career. I haven't read anyone's posts about her and felt like they were out of line. Most seemed to be fans who are just a little bewildered about Brown. To sum it up, I believe anyone who posts here at least every now and then wants success for the OSU women's program. I don't think those "fans" at the game care at all.
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Post by bostonbeaver on Feb 22, 2022 20:00:23 GMT -8
Curious question...I'm not sure how long this board has existed, but it seems there are more negative comments on players than there are on positive comments. I know, that is the nature of most humans, so I get it, but I think we former basketball 'superstars' and 'experts' always think our opinion is right. Did we all complain about Jamie, Syd, and the Hammer the way we do about players now, or is that just a product of the team not performing as well? I'm also curious as to how much complaining there was about Marie before her senior season. I'm guessing there was a lot, but her Senior season was one of the best ever by a Beav. Same with Aleah. The threads about her dribbling around too much got a bit old to read, and continued into her senior season, which again, was one of the best ever by a Beav. Did we complain about Syd's TO's? She had 390 (yes 390) in her career, and let's not forget she missed some games due to injury. Oh, by the way, Catlin Clark had 7 TO's at half time in yesterday's game... yes, 7, at half time. If I'm SR I would still take her next season if she wanted to transfer here. These players and the coaching staff are all a work in progress, and there isn't anything wrong with us voicing our opinions on how we think a player, a coach, or a team, should work on improvements, but we should also realize we are entitled to our wrong opinion, and often we are wrong. We surmise that because one coach, or player, or team, does something a certain way, that the team, coach, or player we root for should do it the same way. There's more than one path to the end goal. I'll end this post with Kennedy Brown's own words to OSU students. The complaining has been here as long as this message board or others like it have existed: - I recall the final-four year (Ruth H senior year) that people were sure that the team would collapse the following year with Marie G at center and that there was a desperate need to go recruit another post. Of course, Freshman Marie G was not Senior Marie G, but I remember some interviews with players that year saying that they liked playing with Marie because the team could play more up tempo with her. And Marie turned out to be pretty good.
- There were complaints in Pivec's sophomore year when she had to play point that she was experiencing a sophomore slump and that she was not as good as she had seemed her Freshman year without Syd to back her. Rather than recognizing that she was playing out of position out of necessity. And Mikayla turned out to be pretty good.
- The complaints about Corosdale have been there since her Freshman year when she played every minute (I think?) in wins against both Tennessee and Baylor in their 6-seed run into the elite 8. People focus only on her points scored, and don't recognize all the other stuff she does away from the ball, especially on defense. Similar criticisms were frequently there for Gabby Hanson where people looking only at her stats rather than how she could lock down opponents (she was Kelsey Plum's kryptonite as we probably all remember). Both Taya and Gabby were pretty good.
The negativity is the nature of anonymous social media. Or sports commentary. Or people.
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Post by sparty on Feb 22, 2022 20:08:31 GMT -8
The complaining has been here as long as this message board or others like it have existed: - I recall the final-four year (Ruth H senior year) that people were sure that the team would collapse the following year with Marie G at center and that there was a desperate need to go recruit another post. Of course, Freshman Marie G was not Senior Marie G, but I remember some interviews with players that year saying that they liked playing with Marie because the team could play more up tempo with her. And Marie turned out to be pretty good.
- There were complaints in Pivec's sophomore year when she had to play point that she was experiencing a sophomore slump and that she was not as good as she had seemed her Freshman year without Syd to back her. Rather than recognizing that she was playing out of position out of necessity. And Mikayla turned out to be pretty good.
- The complaints about Corosdale have been there since her Freshman year when she played every minute (I think?) in wins against both Tennessee and Baylor in their 6-seed run into the elite 8. People focus only on her points scored, and don't recognize all the other stuff she does away from the ball, especially on defense. Similar criticisms were frequently there for Gabby Hanson where people looking only at her stats rather than how she could lock down opponents (she was Kelsey Plum's kryptonite as we probably all remember). Both Taya and Gabby were pretty good.
The negativity is the nature of anonymous social media. Or sports commentary. Or people. You forgot the Destiny Slocum haters
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Post by grayman on Feb 22, 2022 20:33:14 GMT -8
Complaining or stating their opinions? I don't doubt that you can dig up a few truly over the top comments here or there, but I just don't think this is as widespread as some want to see it. I understand that some fans can only follow their teams from an absolute point of view, that anything that isn't praise is criticism and those that criticize must dislike the team or the coach or a specific player. That doesn't make for real discussion, on this platform or elsewhere.
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 22, 2022 20:53:04 GMT -8
Curious question...I'm not sure how long this board has existed, but it seems there are more negative comments on players than there are on positive comments. I know, that is the nature of most humans, so I get it, but I think we former basketball 'superstars' and 'experts' always think our opinion is right. Did we all complain about Jamie, Syd, and the Hammer the way we do about players now, or is that just a product of the team not performing as well? I'm also curious as to how much complaining there was about Marie before her senior season. I'm guessing there was a lot, but her Senior season was one of the best ever by a Beav. Same with Aleah. The threads about her dribbling around too much got a bit old to read, and continued into her senior season, which again, was one of the best ever by a Beav. Did we complain about Syd's TO's? She had 390 (yes 390) in her career, and let's not forget she missed some games due to injury. Oh, by the way, Catlin Clark had 7 TO's at half time in yesterday's game... yes, 7, at half time. If I'm SR I would still take her next season if she wanted to transfer here. These players and the coaching staff are all a work in progress, and there isn't anything wrong with us voicing our opinions on how we think a player, a coach, or a team, should work on improvements, but we should also realize we are entitled to our wrong opinion, and often we are wrong. We surmise that because one coach, or player, or team, does something a certain way, that the team, coach, or player we root for should do it the same way. There's more than one path to the end goal. I'll end this post with Kennedy Brown's own words to OSU students. Anyone at the games near the student section know what she's referring to?
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