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Post by ag87 on Jun 22, 2020 16:23:39 GMT -8
Places where votes count the most: State Vote Weight1. Wyoming 2.97 2. District of Columbia 2.45
3. Vermont 2.42
4. Alaska 2.39
5. Hawai'i 2.37
6. North Dakota 2.21
7. Rhode Island 2.19
8. South Dakota 2.06
9. West Virginia 1.78
10. Delaware 1.72
11. New Mexico 1.59
12. Montana 1.54
13. Nebraska 1.50
14. Idaho 1.47
15. New Hampshire 1.36
16. Maine 1.36
17. Nevada 1.35
....
? Don't confuse him with facts. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jun 22, 2020 16:54:15 GMT -8
Seriously though, New York is where America gets the bulk of it's news feed. All three major networks are based out of there, most of the major cable news programs (albeit more opinion than news, problem is the major networks are leaning more and more towards opinion rather than straight news) are based out of there. New York and California have a lock on most of our entertainment television and movies. Googling top US new sources gets you this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_in_the_United_States Take a look at their list of top news sources, the bulk of it is based out of NYC, some California. Then take a look at the paragraphs on agenda setting. Now I don't know if the writer of this particular bit leans right, but our media does set agendas when it chooses what news it's going to present. Back in the day, newsmen and journalists asked questions then quoted answers, now they seem to feel their job is to sway opinion... and in order to shape opinion odds are they have an opinion. I'm not saying Houston and Phoenix would be the replacements, just saying that any time the bulk of the information is coming from one or two locations, you unknowingly are going to be fed information skewed by the local viewpoint these days, and if Houston and Phoenix were the centers we get our news from the thought process of many in this country would be somewhat different down the line simply because of the geographical influence. Do you think our society would be the same today if Houston and Phoenix had been the primary base of our media and entertainment feeds the last 60-100 years? The bulk of our news does have a lean, one direction or another. Alternative views exist readily, I do switch between ABC, CBS, Fox, CNN and a smattering of MSNBC (depending on who the hosts are) along with some Bloomberg radio, as well as a ton of internet research, to get what I hope is a reasonable broad base of opinions.. and I find them all to have some type of bias. A lot of people get just one or two sources and stick with what their fed. It sounds stupid, but actors, newscasters, sports figures and "social influencers" carry a LOT of weight on US opinion, people hopefully aren't influenced at all by "Real Housewives", but it's pretty much realistically said that the TV and movies we watch, even the music we listen to, shapes minds over time. I realize just how much watching the Walking Dead has dulled my reaction to violence on TV and film, I suspect I can't help but having been influenced politically by the things I've seen on the news. I know ABC is in California and I thought CNN is somewhere in the South...Georgia, right? I think CNN is the weakness in your argument. Hailing from the deep South, one would expect it to champion the conservative views that surround it. But it doesn’t. In fact, some conservatives think it is too liberal. And you have Fox in New York, so I wonder if it would really matter if things were located in Phoenix or Houston at all. To be honest, I don’t find a strong reason to believe that the media consumption is a problem. After all, things in the US have been contentious before, such as during the 60s. I think it’s partly who we are as a people. We believe in ourselves and we believe in our country. Everyone wants to make the USA strong, but we all have different ideas, different experiences, different beliefs. It’d be nice to see this diversity celebrated more. Or if not celebrated, recognized as being part of the fabric of our nation. ABC news is headquartered in Manhattan. CNN has home offices in Atlanta but it is largely produced in New York City with New York area "talent". Ted Turner started moving that company from a news business to a political business a long time ago, and Jeff Zucker is more over the top. Rupert Murdoch started Fox to throw in an alternative viewpoint. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 22, 2020 17:21:46 GMT -8
I know ABC is in California and I thought CNN is somewhere in the South...Georgia, right? I think CNN is the weakness in your argument. Hailing from the deep South, one would expect it to champion the conservative views that surround it. But it doesn’t. In fact, some conservatives think it is too liberal. And you have Fox in New York, so I wonder if it would really matter if things were located in Phoenix or Houston at all. To be honest, I don’t find a strong reason to believe that the media consumption is a problem. After all, things in the US have been contentious before, such as during the 60s. I think it’s partly who we are as a people. We believe in ourselves and we believe in our country. Everyone wants to make the USA strong, but we all have different ideas, different experiences, different beliefs. It’d be nice to see this diversity celebrated more. Or if not celebrated, recognized as being part of the fabric of our nation. ABC news is headquartered in Manhattan. CNN has home offices in Atlanta but it is largely produced in New York City with New York area "talent". Ted Turner started moving that company from a news business to a political business a long time ago, and Jeff Zucker is more over the top. Rupert Murdoch started Fox to throw in an alternative viewpoint. You're probably right about ABC--the Burbank office is probably for their shows.
But still CNN began in Atlanta and didn't espouse a conservative slant to the news. And since Murdoch could start Fox in NY, doesn't that mean location doesn't matter so much?
My hypothesis is that if you sit in on CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, or even FOX, they are doing exactly what any business would do. They have identified their audience and are determined to reach their audience somehow.
I wonder if FOX was much more than a business venture for Murdoch. He saw a niche and filled it, perhaps on the odds of making a lot of money. The rest of the FOX lineup doesn't look very conservative. I mean, the Simpsons? Not exactly. It's a business. That's what this country is all about.
What an interesting idea you brought up, drunkandstoopidbeaver! How would the country look if the media outlets were located in different areas? Would much change? Thanks for letting me think about it!
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Post by irimi on Jun 22, 2020 17:25:44 GMT -8
Places where votes count the most: State Vote Weight1. Wyoming 2.97 2. District of Columbia 2.45
3. Vermont 2.42
4. Alaska 2.39
5. Hawai'i 2.37
6. North Dakota 2.21
7. Rhode Island 2.19
8. South Dakota 2.06
9. West Virginia 1.78
10. Delaware 1.72
11. New Mexico 1.59
12. Montana 1.54
13. Nebraska 1.50
14. Idaho 1.47
15. New Hampshire 1.36
16. Maine 1.36
17. Nevada 1.35
....
? It's a list of how much weight a single vote has in each state, based upon the EC. He brought in the data because I had stated that some people who oppose the EC believe that voters in rural areas have more sway in the election than voters in cities. He wanted to show me that the states with the most pull are split pretty evenly between Democrat and Republican. But like I tried to explain to beaverfever, this isn't my argument. |
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Post by pitbeavs on Jun 22, 2020 20:38:37 GMT -8
Dude, you are exasperating. Truth matters when discussing truths. I wasn’t. I was simply characterizing the common thoughts of the two disagreeing parties. You took issue with the side you agree with, but you could have taken issue just as well with the other side. But you probably hold that statement to be “true.” That is, that in a popular vote election, the election would be controlled by a few of the largest cities. That’s just as much BS, but it is a sentiment that is often expressed in favor of keeping the EC. The opposite side may say something like I had offered. That is, that in the current system, rural states with a lack of diversity, end up controlling the election because their votes are worth more. This is the path to the presidency for the current and the last Republican president, neither of whom won the popular vote, though one has said that he did. LOL. Now, I have explained it twice to you. And really I don’t care. Think what you want. But if you can’t understand a message, it usually isn’t wise to attack the messenger when it’s your own damn fault. Places where votes count the most: State Vote Weight1. Wyoming 2.97
2. District of Columbia 2.45
3. Vermont 2.42
4. Alaska 2.39
5. Hawai'i 2.37
6. North Dakota 2.21
7. Rhode Island 2.19
8. South Dakota 2.06
9. West Virginia 1.78
10. Delaware 1.72
11. New Mexico 1.59
12. Montana 1.54
13. Nebraska 1.50
14. Idaho 1.47
15. New Hampshire 1.36
16. Maine 1.36
17. Nevada 1.35
....
43. Wisconsin 0.85
44. Michigan 0.85
45. Massachusetts 0.84
46. Ohio 0.83
47. Pennsylvania 0.83
48. Virginia 0.83
49. Colorado 0.82
50. North Carolina 0.80
51. Florida 0.78
You are citing a truism that is not true. Most of the states/districts among the first 17 tend to be vote Democrat, and the Electoral College punishes voters in the nine mostly Republican states at the bottom.
Pretty much every representative democracy "suffers" from where the lines are drawn. The only nation on Earth that I am aware of that has a pure first past the post system (what anti-Electoral College peeps have tended to support since 2000) is Mexico. If you want the system that you are advocating, please feel free to emigrate to Mexico and have your vote counted in their elections.Sorry, boys, but this discussion is pointless. The EC isn't going anywhere. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jun 22, 2020 22:23:49 GMT -8
ABC news is headquartered in Manhattan. CNN has home offices in Atlanta but it is largely produced in New York City with New York area "talent". Ted Turner started moving that company from a news business to a political business a long time ago, and Jeff Zucker is more over the top. Rupert Murdoch started Fox to throw in an alternative viewpoint. You're probably right about ABC--the Burbank office is probably for their shows.
But still CNN began in Atlanta and didn't espouse a conservative slant to the news. And since Murdoch could start Fox in NY, doesn't that mean location doesn't matter so much?
My hypothesis is that if you sit in on CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, or even FOX, they are doing exactly what any business would do. They have identified their audience and are determined to reach their audience somehow.
I wonder if FOX was much more than a business venture for Murdoch. He saw a niche and filled it, perhaps on the odds of making a lot of money. The rest of the FOX lineup doesn't look very conservative. I mean, the Simpsons? Not exactly. It's a business. That's what this country is all about.
What an interesting idea you brought up, drunkandstoopidbeaver! How would the country look if the media outlets were located in different areas? Would much change? Thanks for letting me think about it!
Have you spent much time in the Texas or Arkansas region? I've got all of 3-4 weeks total but my wife is from there. It's a different world from Oregon socially, politically and racially. It ony takes a slight difference in attitude to skew things one way or another over time. Kinda like the question asked earlier about why does it have to take 2-3 generations.. it kinda just does. Every now and then something like the George Floyd killing happens and changes a lot of minds fast, or at least gets a lot of people thinking, but on the whole societal change generally isn't abrupt. Attitudes, values and other societal issues vary greatly across the country. We're not a super homogenized society yet. |
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 24, 2020 14:55:41 GMT -8
Why would anyone care about what that guy thinks? Especially about Racism. Is he Black? Advanced degree in Ethnic Studies, Sociology, or any germane area study or expertise? |
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 24, 2020 16:03:52 GMT -8
Why would anyone care about what that guy thinks? Especially about Racism. Is he Black? Advanced degree in Ethnic Studies, Sociology, or any germane area study or expertise? So, shoot the messenger (attempt to, anyway) and ignore the actual indisputable FACTS.
Got it. Lol
"It's ONLY dangerous if ...."
Way to dodge the question. |
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 24, 2020 21:26:21 GMT -8
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 25, 2020 13:20:05 GMT -8
Why would anyone care about what that guy thinks? Especially about Racism. Is he Black? Advanced degree in Ethnic Studies, Sociology, or any germane area study or expertise? I think it is healthy to listen to viewpoints, whether they are "experts" or not. One should remember that Abraham Lincoln received less than 12 months of schooling in his entire life and never graduated high school. Yet, he is someone that I would listen to, when it comes to racism. He is also not black. As for Tim Pool, Pool is one of the original Bernie Bros, back when Bernie was anti-immigration before Bernie sold out to run as a Democrat. He is an anti-immigration/anti-media social liberal. Also, @beaverfever from everything that have seen, Glove is being civil and respectful. You should show the same degree of civility and respect. Glove has his opinions, the same as you. We are a nation of very different-thinking people with different backgrounds and ways of viewing the world. We should all be able to civilly and respectfully exchange ideas and opinions. |
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 25, 2020 14:49:03 GMT -8
Carlos Maza is the GRIFTER! Hahahaha!
You are SO out of touch and out of your element, here.
The tweet I linked just pointed out how out of his element Pool boy is. AOC could LOSE! Wins in a landslide. You dodged the point once again. |
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Post by TheGlove on Jun 25, 2020 14:53:49 GMT -8
Why would anyone care about what that guy thinks? Especially about Racism. Is he Black? Advanced degree in Ethnic Studies, Sociology, or any germane area study or expertise? He seems angry. |
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