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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 31, 2020 16:05:41 GMT -8
I know this is the basketball board, but it made me twitch to see the 'winningest' coach equated to the 'greatest' coach in OSU history. 3 coaches in OSU's history have taken OSU to a BCS-tier bowl, two of which are in the Hall of Fame, and Mike Riley is not among them. I'm a MR fan and am grateful for all he did for OSU. I do not however believe he did something very few of his coaching peers could have accomplished at OSU -- had they wanted to. 66 teams make the tournament, including the play-in games. There are 32 automatic bids, but typically half of those are teams who would make the tournament anyway. So I'd say getting into the tournament is more like making the top 45-50. I do think the Pac-12 making it a pretty common habit of playing terribly in non-conference games has made it tougher to get in that ranking range, a factor that the bowl tie-ins nullify, so maybe that does tip the scales to a mid-tier bowl being a little easier. Still, it doesn't out of reach for teams in our conference except for us and the coogs. Thank you for bringing up this point. I cringe whenever I see the term "winningest" used. I'm sure the original poster understands the definition but many folks do not - they think greatest of all time when they see this word. I would like to remember Mike's time at OSU where he built competitive programs and his teams won a lot of games under difficult circumstances. But his teams also lost the most games in school history making him also the "losingest" coach. His teams won the most games in school history because he coached in more games than anyone else. He was among the most successful coaches, but he was not the most successful coach at OSU because others had higher winning percentages - this should be the true definition of winningest.
Back to basketball. Robinson is the winningest OSU basketball coach post Ralph Miller, but Tinkle has the best winning percentage in that same period. Aki Hill is the winningest WBB coach in OSU history, but Scott Rueck has the best winning percentage in school history.
Actually, both Robinson and Tinkle have 93 wins overall at OSU, Tinkle has more league wins. Robinson had the benefit of being gifted 2 post season tournaments and 5 wins after finishing regular seasons with losing records, otherwise his record would come up short of Tinkle's.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 31, 2020 18:22:08 GMT -8
I get the feeling that we may have had a Mike Riley-level basketball coach in Ritchie McKay. But, instead of Dennis Erickson, we hired Jay John. And then, when he was fired, we hired Craig Robinson, as opposed to McKay. Mike Riley is the winningest coach in Oregon State football history. Your question is why we cannot find the greatest coach in Oregon State basketball history in a period of 25 years of seriously looking? Also, getting a Tournament invite is more akin to being a top 25 football team rather than the more nebulous "getting to a decent bowl game" standard that you set forth above. Since they started issuing rankings in 1936, Stiner finished ranked once, Prothro finished ranked twice (or three times, if you include the UPI poll), Andros finished ranked twice (or three times, if you include the UPI poll), Erickson finished ranked once, and Riley finished ranked four times (or three times, if you just use the ESPN/USA Today poll). I know this is the basketball board, but it made me twitch to see the 'winningest' coach equated to the 'greatest' coach in OSU history. 3 coaches in OSU's history have taken OSU to a BCS-tier bowl, two of which are in the Hall of Fame, and Mike Riley is not among them. I'm a MR fan and am grateful for all he did for OSU. I do not however believe he did something very few of his coaching peers could have accomplished at OSU -- had they wanted to. 66 teams make the tournament, including the play-in games. There are 32 automatic bids, but typically half of those are teams who would make the tournament anyway. So I'd say getting into the tournament is more like making the top 45-50. I do think the Pac-12 making it a pretty common habit of playing terribly in non-conference games has made it tougher to get in that ranking range, a factor that the bowl tie-ins nullify, so maybe that does tip the scales to a mid-tier bowl being a little easier. Still, it doesn't out of reach for teams in our conference except for us and the coogs. I wanted to respond to the football portion first, because I disagree more. Oregon State went to Rose Bowls after the 1941, 1956, and 1964 seasons and a Fiesta Bowl after the 2000 season with Mike Riley's players. In the 1941 season, Oregon State went to the Rose Bowl, going 5-2 against California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, and Washington State. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1941 standard: 2004, 2007, and 2009. Riley coached three regular seasons that were comparable or better than Stiner's Rose Bowl regular season. Stiner is not in the Hall of Fame. In the 1956 season, UCLA, USC, and Washington were on probation for paying players and their seniors could only start in half of the games. Only 1/6 of the seniors for each of those three teams played against Oregon State. The Pacific Coast Conference's wild overreaction and draconian punishment levied against UCLA, USC, and Washington was a big reason that UCLA, USC, and Washington and the two Bay Area teams ultimately left the Pacific Coast Conference and started the AAWU. Of the teams that were not on probation, Oregon finished second at 3-3-2. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1956 standard: 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009. In the 1964 season, Oregon State went 3-1 against Oregon, Stanford, Washington, and Washington State. USC finished tied at 3-1 and beat #1 Notre Dame, but Oregon State was voted in by Oregon, Washington, and Washington State. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1964 standard: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2009. Riley coached five regular seasons that were comparable or better than Prothro's Rose Bowl regular seasons. It should also be pointed out that Stiner's season was a better season than either of Prothro's seasons, and Stiner is not in the Hall of Fame. Prothro was elected to the Hall mostly for his time at Duke, his service during the War, and his time at UCLA, e.g., the Miracle Season, beating the Jolly Green Giants, and coaching Gary Beban to a Heisman Trophy. The Bruins finished no worse than second each season. UCLA fans still wax poetic about his time there. Dennis Erickson took Oregon State with Mike Riley's players. He was elected to the Hall but largely based on his six-year stint in Miami, where he won two National Championships (one a split championship with Washington) and qualified for (and lost) two additional National Championship Games (one at home). Only the 2000 season was not a product of exceptional circumstances, which cleared the field and allowed Oregon State to sneak in. Most of the time that the Beavers have had "great" seasons, they have needed things to break their way, in order to put themselves in that position. Riley's Beavers never got those breaks. Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that Mike Riley was an average coach. In any instance, you must agree that he was a great coach for Oregon State. To do what he did with the headwinds that face Oregon State in Oregon's Phil Knight Era is nothing short of remarkable. Not only did he do a great job in a tough spot, he had the fortitude to do a great job in a tough spot without bailing. He was a great coach here. Whether that makes him a great coach nationally is up for debate.
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Post by aicandme on May 31, 2020 19:04:57 GMT -8
I know this is the basketball board, but it made me twitch to see the 'winningest' coach equated to the 'greatest' coach in OSU history. 3 coaches in OSU's history have taken OSU to a BCS-tier bowl, two of which are in the Hall of Fame, and Mike Riley is not among them. I'm a MR fan and am grateful for all he did for OSU. I do not however believe he did something very few of his coaching peers could have accomplished at OSU -- had they wanted to. 66 teams make the tournament, including the play-in games. There are 32 automatic bids, but typically half of those are teams who would make the tournament anyway. So I'd say getting into the tournament is more like making the top 45-50. I do think the Pac-12 making it a pretty common habit of playing terribly in non-conference games has made it tougher to get in that ranking range, a factor that the bowl tie-ins nullify, so maybe that does tip the scales to a mid-tier bowl being a little easier. Still, it doesn't out of reach for teams in our conference except for us and the coogs. I wanted to respond to the football portion first, because I disagree more. Oregon State went to Rose Bowls after the 1941, 1956, and 1964 seasons and a Fiesta Bowl after the 2000 season with Mike Riley's players. In the 1941 season, Oregon State went to the Rose Bowl, going 5-2 against California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, and Washington State. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1941 standard: 2004, 2007, and 2009. Riley coached three regular seasons that were comparable or better than Stiner's Rose Bowl regular season. Stiner is not in the Hall of Fame. In the 1956 season, UCLA, USC, and Washington were on probation for paying players and their seniors could only start in half of the games. Only 1/6 of the seniors for each of those three teams played against Oregon State. The Pacific Coast Conference's wild overreaction and draconian punishment levied against UCLA, USC, and Washington was a big reason that UCLA, USC, and Washington and the two Bay Area teams ultimately left the Pacific Coast Conference and started the AAWU. Of the teams that were not on probation, Oregon finished second at 3-3-2. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1956 standard: 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009. In the 1964 season, Oregon State went 3-1 against Oregon, Stanford, Washington, and Washington State. USC finished tied at 3-1 and beat #1 Notre Dame, but Oregon State was voted in by Oregon, Washington, and Washington State. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1964 standard: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2009. Riley coached five regular seasons that were comparable or better than Prothro's Rose Bowl regular seasons. It should also be pointed out that Stiner's season was a better season than either of Prothro's seasons, and Stiner is not in the Hall of Fame. Prothro was elected to the Hall mostly for his time at Duke, his service during the War, and his time at UCLA, e.g., the Miracle Season, beating the Jolly Green Giants, and coaching Gary Beban to a Heisman Trophy. The Bruins finished no worse than second each season. UCLA fans still wax poetic about his time there. Dennis Erickson took Oregon State with Mike Riley's players. He was elected to the Hall but largely based on his six-year stint in Miami, where he won two National Championships (one a split championship with Washington) and qualified for (and lost) two additional National Championship Games (one at home). Only the 2000 season was not a product of exceptional circumstances, which cleared the field and allowed Oregon State to sneak in. Most of the time that the Beavers have had "great" seasons, they have needed things to break their way, in order to put themselves in that position. Riley's Beavers never got those breaks. Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that Mike Riley was an average coach. In any instance, you must agree that he was a great coach for Oregon State. To do what he did with the headwinds that face Oregon State in Oregon's Phil Knight Era is nothing short of remarkable. Not only did he do a great job in a tough spot, he had the fortitude to do a great job in a tough spot without bailing. He was a great coach here. Whether that makes him a great coach nationally is up for debate. Erickson took OSU to multiple bowl games with Pettibone's, Riley's, and his own players. Drives me crazy when people insinuate it was only Riley's players. He was only here 2 years and did not have 2 amazing classes his first go around. In fact many of key pieces for the Fiesta team were Erickson recruits.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on May 31, 2020 20:52:20 GMT -8
Most of the key Fiesta Bowl players were Riley recruits. Smith, Simonton, McCall, Maurer, Gibson, Housh, Mitch White, the Presidents,James Allen, Carlyle, Carroll, Fessler, Keith Johnson, Weathersby, Ricky Walker, Ryan Atkinson, Benny Johnson, Kyle Roselle, Sandoval, Cookus.
Cornell, Prescott, Sykes, Sefa O. were Pettibone guys.
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Post by OSUprof on May 31, 2020 21:08:37 GMT -8
Thank you for bringing up this point. I cringe whenever I see the term "winningest" used. I'm sure the original poster understands the definition but many folks do not - they think greatest of all time when they see this word. I would like to remember Mike's time at OSU where he built competitive programs and his teams won a lot of games under difficult circumstances. But his teams also lost the most games in school history making him also the "losingest" coach. His teams won the most games in school history because he coached in more games than anyone else. He was among the most successful coaches, but he was not the most successful coach at OSU because others had higher winning percentages - this should be the true definition of winningest.
Back to basketball. Robinson is the winningest OSU basketball coach post Ralph Miller, but Tinkle has the best winning percentage in that same period. Aki Hill is the winningest WBB coach in OSU history, but Scott Rueck has the best winning percentage in school history.
Actually, both Robinson and Tinkle have 93 wins overall at OSU, Tinkle has more league wins. Robinson had the benefit of being gifted 2 post season tournaments and 5 wins after finishing regular seasons with losing records, otherwise his record would come up short of Tinkle's. Wrong. The media guide says Robinson has 94 wins. My own records confirm this. Tinkle has 93 wins.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 31, 2020 21:31:05 GMT -8
Actually, both Robinson and Tinkle have 93 wins overall at OSU, Tinkle has more league wins. Robinson had the benefit of being gifted 2 post season tournaments and 5 wins after finishing regular seasons with losing records, otherwise his record would come up short of Tinkle's. Wrong. The media guide says Robinson has 94 wins. My own records confirm this. Tinkle has 93 wins. Wikipedia's got him down for 93. Exhibition game? Something's off. Now I gotta go and look season by season. Edit... found it, whoever wrote the wikipedia missed the conference tournament in 2010-11.
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Post by beaverstever on Jun 1, 2020 8:22:01 GMT -8
I know this is the basketball board, but it made me twitch to see the 'winningest' coach equated to the 'greatest' coach in OSU history. 3 coaches in OSU's history have taken OSU to a BCS-tier bowl, two of which are in the Hall of Fame, and Mike Riley is not among them. I'm a MR fan and am grateful for all he did for OSU. I do not however believe he did something very few of his coaching peers could have accomplished at OSU -- had they wanted to. 66 teams make the tournament, including the play-in games. There are 32 automatic bids, but typically half of those are teams who would make the tournament anyway. So I'd say getting into the tournament is more like making the top 45-50. I do think the Pac-12 making it a pretty common habit of playing terribly in non-conference games has made it tougher to get in that ranking range, a factor that the bowl tie-ins nullify, so maybe that does tip the scales to a mid-tier bowl being a little easier. Still, it doesn't out of reach for teams in our conference except for us and the coogs. I wanted to respond to the football portion first, because I disagree more. Oregon State went to Rose Bowls after the 1941, 1956, and 1964 seasons and a Fiesta Bowl after the 2000 season with Mike Riley's players. In the 1941 season, Oregon State went to the Rose Bowl, going 5-2 against California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, and Washington State. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1941 standard: 2004, 2007, and 2009. Riley coached three regular seasons that were comparable or better than Stiner's Rose Bowl regular season. Stiner is not in the Hall of Fame. In the 1956 season, UCLA, USC, and Washington were on probation for paying players and their seniors could only start in half of the games. Only 1/6 of the seniors for each of those three teams played against Oregon State. The Pacific Coast Conference's wild overreaction and draconian punishment levied against UCLA, USC, and Washington was a big reason that UCLA, USC, and Washington and the two Bay Area teams ultimately left the Pacific Coast Conference and started the AAWU. Of the teams that were not on probation, Oregon finished second at 3-3-2. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1956 standard: 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009. In the 1964 season, Oregon State went 3-1 against Oregon, Stanford, Washington, and Washington State. USC finished tied at 3-1 and beat #1 Notre Dame, but Oregon State was voted in by Oregon, Washington, and Washington State. Years Mike Riley would have taken Oregon State to the Rose Bowl using the 1964 standard: 1998, 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2009. Riley coached five regular seasons that were comparable or better than Prothro's Rose Bowl regular seasons. It should also be pointed out that Stiner's season was a better season than either of Prothro's seasons, and Stiner is not in the Hall of Fame. Prothro was elected to the Hall mostly for his time at Duke, his service during the War, and his time at UCLA, e.g., the Miracle Season, beating the Jolly Green Giants, and coaching Gary Beban to a Heisman Trophy. The Bruins finished no worse than second each season. UCLA fans still wax poetic about his time there. Dennis Erickson took Oregon State with Mike Riley's players. He was elected to the Hall but largely based on his six-year stint in Miami, where he won two National Championships (one a split championship with Washington) and qualified for (and lost) two additional National Championship Games (one at home). Only the 2000 season was not a product of exceptional circumstances, which cleared the field and allowed Oregon State to sneak in. Most of the time that the Beavers have had "great" seasons, they have needed things to break their way, in order to put themselves in that position. Riley's Beavers never got those breaks. Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that Mike Riley was an average coach. In any instance, you must agree that he was a great coach for Oregon State. To do what he did with the headwinds that face Oregon State in Oregon's Phil Knight Era is nothing short of remarkable. Not only did he do a great job in a tough spot, he had the fortitude to do a great job in a tough spot without bailing. He was a great coach here. Whether that makes him a great coach nationally is up for debate. A few points: -I don't think Riley was an average coach. I believe he was in the top quartile of coaches, just not in the top 5-10%. -I believe Riley was great overall for OSU (pretty obviously), and maybe the best coach OSU could have hoped to attract at the time. -I don't believe he's the greatest coach ever at OSU, because I see a coaching career as the overall body of work. Just comparing his body of work (beyond OSU) to Erickson's, he clearly wouldn't stack up as the greatest to ever be employed at OSU. But if your point is that he did more for OSU than Erickson (or perhaps any other coach in history), then understand the point and agree that there's a strong case made for it.
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Post by beaverstever on Jun 1, 2020 8:27:59 GMT -8
Thank you for bringing up this point. I cringe whenever I see the term "winningest" used. I'm sure the original poster understands the definition but many folks do not - they think greatest of all time when they see this word. I would like to remember Mike's time at OSU where he built competitive programs and his teams won a lot of games under difficult circumstances. But his teams also lost the most games in school history making him also the "losingest" coach. His teams won the most games in school history because he coached in more games than anyone else. He was among the most successful coaches, but he was not the most successful coach at OSU because others had higher winning percentages - this should be the true definition of winningest.
Back to basketball. Robinson is the winningest OSU basketball coach post Ralph Miller, but Tinkle has the best winning percentage in that same period. Aki Hill is the winningest WBB coach in OSU history, but Scott Rueck has the best winning percentage in school history.
Actually, both Robinson and Tinkle have 93 wins overall at OSU, Tinkle has more league wins. Robinson had the benefit of being gifted 2 post season tournaments and 5 wins after finishing regular seasons with losing records, otherwise his record would come up short of Tinkle's. Those 'gifted' postseason tournaments weren't gifted wins, and were against decent competition. I guess don't like dissing on what I found some of the most enjoyable stretches of OSU basketball in the last 30 years - OSU played some inspired basketball in the CBI, well enough that I believe they would have given most NIT and some NCAA tournament teams trouble.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jun 1, 2020 11:43:02 GMT -8
Those 'gifted' postseason tournaments weren't gifted wins, and were against decent competition. I guess don't like dissing on what I found some of the most enjoyable stretches of OSU basketball in the last 30 years - OSU played some inspired basketball in the CBI, well enough that I believe they would have given most NIT and some NCAA tournament teams trouble. That thought process doesn't fit the mold of WT backer(s): - disparage every coach before WT (mostly CR and his players by one poster here); - but then compare WT to those diminished achievements while also stressing he's the best option available to OSU; Not exactly high standards or praise. But, solid for accepting and justifying mediocrity. Not to mention the fatalistic approach that hoops history controls the future of the program. But, then again, that's how some folks roll. Give us a logical proven choice to replace Tinkle and maybe we'll listen. The guy is representing the university well, the team isn't doing poorly in comparison to ANY time the last 30 years and hasn't gone off the rails. If the team was going off the rails or seeing multiple losing seasons, I for one would be OK with a change. He was the 9th highest paid coach in the league and finished 8th, and OSU has shown time and again it will not pay big money to bring in a successful name coach. Right now replacing him would be a complete crap shoot at the very best. You are acting like the anti-Riley crowd who kept insisting we can do better so we better get rid of him.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jun 1, 2020 12:43:15 GMT -8
Give us a logical proven choice to replace Tinkle and maybe we'll listen. The guy is representing the university well, the team isn't doing poorly in comparison to ANY time the last 30 years and hasn't gone off the rails. If the team was going off the rails or seeing multiple losing seasons, I for one would be OK with a change. He was the 9th highest paid coach in the league and finished 8th, and OSU has shown time and again it will not pay big money to bring in a successful name coach. Right now replacing him would be a complete crap shoot at the very best. You are acting like the anti-Riley crowd who kept insisting we can do better so we better get rid of him. The hiring process is for finding the right candidate, not the message board. Again with the 30 years. It had no bearing on the present or future hires. He's had multiple losing Pac12 seasons. No one mentioned how he represented OSU. He's the 38-40th highest paid D1 coach and his team's are never close to that level. I was pro MR. You sound like those in love with GAG. Luckily he never made it to season 7. I hoped the best for the program under GAG, but I thought his "reasons" he gave for wanting to come to OSU were farcical or dishonest, and I gave up on him the very first Civil War game when he essentially benched 40% of the team for the game. I knew he'd lost the team right then, hoped he'd get it back but I was quite OK with him being gone. I was a big fan of Riley, a lot of "fans" of our team really had it wrong on him. I think Tinkle can be replaced, but it'll cost 3-4 million+ a year, on top of any buyout, to get someone who would improve our odds of improvement. I don't see taking a chance on another assistant or small school coach, been doing that since Miller and this is the only time the program has actually improved (even if it's not as much as we'd all like).
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Post by aicandme on Jun 1, 2020 13:03:07 GMT -8
Most of the key Fiesta Bowl players were Riley recruits. Smith, Simonton, McCall, Maurer, Gibson, Housh, Mitch White, the Presidents,James Allen, Carlyle, Carroll, Fessler, Keith Johnson, Weathersby, Ricky Walker, Ryan Atkinson, Benny Johnson, Kyle Roselle, Sandoval, Cookus. Cornell, Prescott, Sykes, Sefa O. were Pettibone guys. If you're calling the 99 freshman class Riley guys even though he never coached them, shouldn't you call the 97 freshman class Pettibone players? Carroll and Walker redshirted in 96.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 1, 2020 13:53:25 GMT -8
Yes, Dennis coached them. Full props to him. But I was just answering your original statement.
Erickson took OSU to multiple bowl games with Pettibone's, Riley's, and his own players. Drives me crazy when people insinuate it was only Riley's players.
Not only Riley's players. But by far the top difference-makers on that team were Riley recruits. And the class of 1996-97 was recruited by Riley, et all. JP was fired the day after the Civil War.
Contrast that to 1998-99, when Mike had already recruited and either signed/received commitments from P5 transfers (McCall) or JC transfers (Housh, the Jacksons, Benny Johnson) when he went to the Chargers late December or early January.
As you said, Dennis coached them. But he was never able to duplicate the 2000 success he had with Riley's recruits with a team totally of his own making.
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Post by aicandme on Jun 1, 2020 15:28:05 GMT -8
Yes, Dennis coached them. Full props to him. But I was just answering your original statement. Erickson took OSU to multiple bowl games with Pettibone's, Riley's, and his own players. Drives me crazy when people insinuate it was only Riley's players.Not only Riley's players. But by far the top difference-makers on that team were Riley recruits. And the class of 1996-97 was recruited by Riley, et all. JP was fired the day after the Civil War. Contrast that to 1998-99, when Mike had already recruited and either signed/received commitments from P5 transfers (McCall) or JC transfers (Housh, the Jacksons, Benny Johnson) when he went to the Chargers late December or early January. As you said, Dennis coached them. But he was never able to duplicate the 2000 success he had with Riley's recruits with a team totally of his own making. Understand what you're saying but I find it hard to believe that Pettibone hadn't done an ounce of recruiting before he was fired and yet Riley had 100% secured of his class secured before he left for SD. His recruiting history doesn't support that. There's only about 30 days difference in recruiting timeframes between Riley and Pettibone. I'm sure Riley had some impact on the last Pettibone class as did Erickson on Rileys last class. Take this with a grain of salt as it is Wikipedia but it states that Housh was offered by Erickson.
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Post by fishbeav on Jun 1, 2020 16:32:31 GMT -8
It is interesting to me to see fans today compare Tinkle to past Beaver coaches and teams. I watched my first OSC game in the first Far West Classic in 1955. It was a team featuring Dave Gambee coached by Slats Gill. I was at OSU when Gill took a team to the final Four. Paul Valenti took Gills place and continued winning other than John Wooden at UCLA. Along came Ralph Miller and we continued t be one of the dominate teams in the country.
All of the coaches had one thing in common. They played very good defense and a very deliberate ball control offense that emphasized high percentage shots. I remember OSU games played in the 40's and 50's. We beat a #4 rated Tennessee team 28-7 under Valenti. You could play well coached slow basketball without the greyhound athletes with control and discipline. Gill, Valenti, and Miller proved that and won. Gill and Miller retired as two of the winningest coaches in history.
The NCAAA changed that with the Shot Clock and the Three point line. They wanted an uptempo fan friendly game. When they did that it made it hard for schools who do not have the ability to consistently recruit the top players to compete at the highest level.
You may see a Duke and a Kansas at a high level each year but you do not see the dynasties that were in the past.
Coach Tinkle has had one losing season since he has been here. Nuf said.
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Jun 1, 2020 16:48:05 GMT -8
I too went to the Far West Classic every Game and I remember the Teams with Gambee and Counts . I was in Army Reserve Basic Training when the Bears lost to Seattle U. I remember Peters, and Counts and those Years as well. I watched The Miller Teams and saw many games live at that time. I think of how the game has changed and that is just the way it is. I feel Tinkle is ok but we can see this and next Year how well it goes. I hope for good results.
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