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Post by greshambeaver on Jan 3, 2020 18:34:32 GMT -8
OSU, was once a Basketball School. (Still are when you are talking WBB), but it's been 30 years since we really meant anything meaningful in men's college Basketball. The last season we were actually any kind of force was 1990 when GPI carried the team to the NCAA.
This was a legendary Basketball Program until the early 90's, now we aren't even in the picture. How the university fixes this, (if in fact it could happen) I am not sure, but Wayne Tinkle is not the answer. He may be a great guy and a great dad, but he is not even a fair Basketball Coach. Just an opinion of an invested Beaver fan!
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 3, 2020 18:53:51 GMT -8
OSU, was once a Basketball School. (Still are when you are talking WBB), but it's been 30 years since we really meant anything meaningful in men's college Basketball. The last season we were actually any kind of force was 1990 when GPI carried the team to the NCAA. This was a legendary Basketball Program until the early 90's, now we aren't even in the picture. How the university fixes this, (if in fact it could happen) I am not sure, but Wayne Tinkle is not the answer. He may be a great guy and a great dad, but he is not even a fair Basketball Coach. Just an opinion of an invested Beaver fan! Legendary? Like losing to Evansville in the first round? We were a good regular season team. We would be bitching about canning Ralph in this day and age with his crappy post season record. The one post season run he had was vacated due to NCAA violations. Losing to Lamar, K state & Evansville in the 1st round is “legendary” in the wrong kind of way. We may need a new coach, but any expectations of being a “force” in the tourney is a pipe dream at this point.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 3, 2020 19:06:12 GMT -8
OSU, was once a Basketball School. (Still are when you are talking WBB), but it's been 30 years since we really meant anything meaningful in men's college Basketball. The last season we were actually any kind of force was 1990 when GPI carried the team to the NCAA. This was a legendary Basketball Program until the early 90's, now we aren't even in the picture. How the university fixes this, (if in fact it could happen) I am not sure, but Wayne Tinkle is not the answer. He may be a great guy and a great dad, but he is not even a fair Basketball Coach. Just an opinion of an invested Beaver fan! Legendary? Like losing to Evansville in the first round? We were a good regular season team. We would be bitching about canning Ralph in this day and age with his crappy post season record. The one post season run he had was vacated due to NCAA violations. Losing to Lamar, K state & Evansville in the 1st round is “legendary” in the wrong kind of way. We may need a new coach, but any expectations of being a “force” in the tourney is a pipe dream at this point. Having stood in Gill (on the students side) for the unveiling of 3 Pac-10 Championship banners I’m forced to disagree with you. It was Legendary.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 3, 2020 19:13:18 GMT -8
Legendary? Like losing to Evansville in the first round? We were a good regular season team. We would be bitching about canning Ralph in this day and age with his crappy post season record. The one post season run he had was vacated due to NCAA violations. Losing to Lamar, K state & Evansville in the 1st round is “legendary” in the wrong kind of way. We may need a new coach, but any expectations of being a “force” in the tourney is a pipe dream at this point. Having stood in Gill (on the students side) for the unveiling of 3 Pac-10 Championship banners I’m forced to disagree with you. It was Legendary. I was there for a couple of them as well. Just saying that today, if we won PAC 12 titles and lost in the first round every year, people would be bitching about firing the coach. To me making a Final Four is legendary. 1963 was a long time ago and just winning a conference championship does not mean what it once did.
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,661
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 4, 2020 13:56:10 GMT -8
I was also on the student sidelines for GP's last 3 seasons, and along with winning Pac-12 conference championships (or at least being in the conversation/contention for them the entire season) and at least appearing in NCAA brackets, there was something else about Ralph Miller teams that has been missing for a while:
They were a pleasure to watch. Ralph Miller teams were well coached, and so even when we came up on the short end of the stick, it wasn't because they lacked in basic basketball fundamentals.
More than hoisting banners, I simply miss watching men's basketball being played well by an OSU team in Gill.
Go Beavers!
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Post by seastape on Jan 4, 2020 15:46:19 GMT -8
I was also on the student sidelines for GP's last 3 seasons, and along with winning Pac-12 conference championships (or at least being in the conversation/contention for them the entire season) and at least appearing in NCAA brackets, there was something else about Ralph Miller teams that has been missing for a while: They were a pleasure to watch. Ralph Miller teams were well coached, and so even when we came up on the short end of the stick, it wasn't because they lacked in basic basketball fundamentals. More than hoisting banners, I simply miss watching men's basketball being played well by an OSU team in Gill. Go Beavers! Couldn't agree more. Not just the fundamentals, but it seems like the team is not always put in the best position to make plays. An example: watching Silva the other night trying to defend a pick and roll. It was alarming.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 4, 2020 15:55:13 GMT -8
I was also on the student sidelines for GP's last 3 seasons, and along with winning Pac-12 conference championships (or at least being in the conversation/contention for them the entire season) and at least appearing in NCAA brackets, there was something else about Ralph Miller teams that has been missing for a while: They were a pleasure to watch. Ralph Miller teams were well coached, and so even when we came up on the short end of the stick, it wasn't because they lacked in basic basketball fundamentals. More than hoisting banners, I simply miss watching men's basketball being played well by an OSU team in Gill. Go Beavers! Couldn't agree more. Not just the fundamentals, but it seems like the team is not always put in the best position to make plays. An example: watching Silva the other night trying to defend a pick and roll. It was alarming. Without sounding like excuses being given... it is a far different era of players and hoops. I'm not sure Ralph could have survived long in this era of me, me, and more me basketball. There is not a ton of great fundamental play, but there are coaches that have adapted and still teach and demand it. Watching replays and some of today's action is alarming. Not only fundamentals and development, OSU is not close to as deep with talent as 5-6 other teams. I fear the Utah game vs basically Frosh and Sophs is only the tip of the iceberg. We'll see.
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Post by babeav on Jan 4, 2020 16:47:06 GMT -8
Agree 100% you could have added a couple of more me’s.....AAU mentality, team concepts are dinosaur like. The shot clock and 3 point line would have driven Ralph crazy......
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Post by seastape on Jan 4, 2020 17:54:36 GMT -8
Agree 100% you could have added a couple of more me’s.....AAU mentality, team concepts are dinosaur like. The shot clock and 3 point line would have driven Ralph crazy...... I don't think Ralph had a problem with the 3 point line. He set up Bill Sherwood as a 3 point specialist in the latter years of his career. I think the only problem he had with it was the same problem he had in other situations...players trying to do something beyond their skill set and failing at it. Shoot 3 pointers...if you can make 'em. Dunk 'til the cows come home...but there's a place at the end of the bench if you miss one showing off. On the other hand...shot clock=bad.
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Post by keizerbeav on Jan 4, 2020 21:13:57 GMT -8
I was a student during the Miller Years. Ralph was a great basketball coach but he coached expecting such perfection his teams got to post season and were tight, playing not to lose. I think if he had it over Ralph would have been more aggressive in the regular season allowing players/teams to make mistakes with the greater goal of peaking in the post season. The Lamar and Kansas State losses in 80 and 81 should not have happened.
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beav74
Freshman
Posts: 697
Grad Year: OSU 1974
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Post by beav74 on Jan 4, 2020 21:18:54 GMT -8
Ralph Miller's system produced lay-in after lay-in. Team FG% must have been somewhere close to 55% every game. WT system produces dribble-dribble-dribble and then toss up a 17 foot shot and hope it goes in.
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Post by alwaysorange on Jan 4, 2020 21:24:49 GMT -8
I could care less if Ralph Miller coached teams were tight when they got to the dance, at least they often danced.
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Post by bdudbeaver on Jan 4, 2020 23:27:57 GMT -8
Had some good friends over for some good food and wine tonight. This is a great philosophical question. So, here goes.
I attended almost every home bball game between 1979 and 1984. The glory years. Ralph won because he had a good system, and the players were coerced into the system. The UCLA dynasty was eclipsing, and the West coast media wanted a successor. We got lots of favorable calls/rulings because of that. The Ralph Miller system worked great against teams with equal or lessor talent. It did not work against teams with a star or greater talent. The 3 point line has changed the game. So has club sports at the teen level, shoe endorsements at the pro level, and everything in between which is too complicated for me to comprehend. There's a lot of money/influence involved. Just sad, really, in the final view of what's best for most of the people involved.
Ralph's teams, when they ran the back-door cuts or the full-court press were a thing of beauty. I just don't think you can replicate that today. If you could, other coaches would be doing that, and I don't see those sets in any other NCAA team I watch. The players defending today are much more athletic than they were then. I think Kylor Kelley is probably a better all-around player than Steve Johnson was, Ethan Thompson is probably equivalent in skills to Lester Conner; Lester could carry his team to the G8, Ethan, not so much.
In the end, I think it is a combination of the 3 pt. line, control of game by the coaches, referees allowing much more contact by the defenders, and the players own mentality, being brought up through club sports and not just grade school/jr. high/high school bball that unfortunately we will never witness the beauty of Ralph Miller BBall again. Me, myself, I've become more of a WBB fan. Even with the Men, will we ever see something like Phi Slamma Jamma again? Or are we just destined to be the dreary JV version of the pro game?
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bill82
Freshman
OSU's 10,157th Best Donor
Posts: 962
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Post by bill82 on Jan 5, 2020 0:40:15 GMT -8
Attended games during the Kool and the Gang era. We were the disciplined mid-major that you see today. We beat better talent that lacked fundamentals. We lost to teams with superstars (Ewing) or that played looser and got hot. I think that formula could work today. Compete for conference championships and an occasional/rare deep run in tournament.
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osu82
Freshman
Posts: 643
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Post by osu82 on Jan 5, 2020 11:04:11 GMT -8
I was a student during the Miller Years. Ralph was a great basketball coach but he coached expecting such perfection his teams got to post season and were tight, playing not to lose. I think if he had it over Ralph would have been more aggressive in the regular season allowing players/teams to make mistakes with the greater goal of peaking in the post season. The Lamar and Kansas State losses in 80 and 81 should not have happened. You're right in that those teams played tight when they got to the tourny. The first round bye didn't do them any favors either. Lamar was crazy hot shooting as I recall. But mostly it's a sad commentary on OSU mbb over the past 20+ years that we are rehashing games that were played 40 years ago.
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