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Post by osubeaver2018 on Mar 28, 2019 13:33:26 GMT -8
Excellence cannot be achieved if one continually accepts the excuses for failure. Yeah, Apple should have cut that Jobs guy loose early on after his first few failures, and certainly never should have rehired him. There's no excuse for failure, and one who fails can never succeed. Colonel Sanders, Walt Disney, Ray Kroc all had huge failures along the way but stuck with it well beyond the point most would give up. Not saying Tinkle is any of those guys, but OSU has had a history of giving up on coaches after 4 and 5 years. From the 1991/92 season through the 2013/14 season OSU produced two winning records and one .500 season. 23 freaking years and only 3 competitive-ish seasons. In Tinkle's case, he has produced the best years OSU has had in 30 years (3 winning records and one .500 season in 5 years) and there are people here who are saying he needs to be gone. In pretty much every sport that we've had long term coaches, their best years weren't in their first 5 seasons, closer to a decade out. OSU may never have that kind of coach again if they cut and run continually, especially on coaches who are actually producing competitive teams. The football program seems like a good comparison for this topic. 28 years of losing before MR and DE, yet no one was calling for Riley's head after losing seasons in the late 90s or DE's head after following up the Fiesta bowl season with a dud (coming off a preseason #1 ranking too). Then, Riley II's best years were 06-09. If the school had said they had enough after '05's mediocre results and cut bait who knows what would have happened in those next 4 years as well.
The football program cycled through 5 coaches before landing a 6th in Riley who was actually able to build any kind of positive momentum. WT is the 6th HC in a long line of recycling coaches in a very similar way who is seeing success and positive momentum very similar to MR's first stint (I'm discounting KM's 0-13 run as interim). I'm not saying WT=MR or that he is destined to become the winningest coach in the basketball program's history, but give it some time for some stability and see if there can continue to be some positive growth.
Now what about Coach Smith now? He just had a 2-10 season, probably will have a losing season again next year which no one will be upset about barring a 2-10 or worse season again, and still may not make a bowl game in year 3 or 4. And even if the football program does make a bowl game in year 4 or 5 are we just accepting mediocrity and failure if he is extended or kept beyond that? Should he be consistently doing better than that even with the dumpster fire that GAG left behind?
It takes TIME. Get a grip. Chill FFS.
As for addressing what I like about WT in terms of his actual coaching ability, I like this recruiting class that's coming in this year. This team sorely lacks a good shooter and I think we get that in Lucas this year. A true two-way PG? They get that in Hunt. Franklin has plenty of experience playing against good AAU competition and I like what he brings to the table too. KK was a great find even though he wasn't highly recruited. WT IMO does a good job of making in-game adjustments, I also really like his his intense "tough love" approach to coaching and is a guy that I would like to play for if I were choosing a school.
I give Wayne at LEAST two more seasons before I am in a rush for change. Barring complete and utter disaster I am confident he gets just that.
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Post by osufan2k on Mar 28, 2019 13:48:58 GMT -8
You can't compare the two. A rebuild in football, like what we're seeing right now at OSU takes MUCH longer than a full rebuild in basketball. In basketball, one or two players can make a huge difference in one year.
So no... giving Tinkle more is just delaying what we all know will eventually happen. Get it over with and find a new coach.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 28, 2019 13:54:02 GMT -8
You can't compare the two. A rebuild in football, like what we're seeing right now at OSU takes MUCH longer than a full rebuild in basketball. In basketball, one or two players can make a huge difference in one year. So no... giving Tinkle more is just delaying what we all know will eventually happen. Get it over with and find a new coach. So,we should rebuild from a 4th place team? And yes, one or two players can make a huge difference if they are high 4* or 5* players. The odds of getting those type of players to Corvallis is not good, no matter who the coach is.
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Post by osufan2k on Mar 28, 2019 14:18:22 GMT -8
You can't compare the two. A rebuild in football, like what we're seeing right now at OSU takes MUCH longer than a full rebuild in basketball. In basketball, one or two players can make a huge difference in one year. So no... giving Tinkle more is just delaying what we all know will eventually happen. Get it over with and find a new coach. So,we should rebuild from a 4th place team? And yes, one or two players can make a huge difference if they are high 4* or 5* players. The odds of getting those type of players to Corvallis is not good, no matter who the coach is. The 4th place team... smh. I keep seeing a few of you post this like it was some magical season and a huge accomplishment. Wayne Tinkle's best season at OSU is a 4th place finish in a conference that had ZERO top 25 ranked teams, lost 5 of 7 at the end of the season, including a first round loss to Colorado where they were down 21 in the first half, and finally, losses to the 11th and 12th place teams in the SEC! Great season!
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 28, 2019 14:20:44 GMT -8
So,we should rebuild from a 4th place team? And yes, one or two players can make a huge difference if they are high 4* or 5* players. The odds of getting those type of players to Corvallis is not good, no matter who the coach is. The 4th place team... smh. I keep seeing a few of you post this like it was some magical season and a huge accomplishment. Wayne Tinkle's best season at OSU is a 4th place finish in a conference that had ZERO top 25 ranked teams, lost 5 of 7 at the end of the season, including a first round loss to Colorado where they were down 21 in the first half, and finally, losses to the 11th and 12th place teams in the SEC! Great season! So now it's WT's fault that the conference doesn't have any ranked teams? We were picked 10th and he finished 4th. Was it magical? Nope, but it was better than expected.
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Post by osufan2k on Mar 28, 2019 14:28:32 GMT -8
The 4th place team... smh. I keep seeing a few of you post this like it was some magical season and a huge accomplishment. Wayne Tinkle's best season at OSU is a 4th place finish in a conference that had ZERO top 25 ranked teams, lost 5 of 7 at the end of the season, including a first round loss to Colorado where they were down 21 in the first half, and finally, losses to the 11th and 12th place teams in the SEC! Great season! So now it's WT's fault that the conference doesn't have any ranked teams? We were picked 10th and he finished 4th. Was it magical? Nope, but it was better than expected. That's the freaking point. It was a better than expected season because the pac12 sucked this year, not because of Wayn's coaching ability. If it was more competitive, Tinkle's team would have finished right where they were predicted.
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Post by OSUprof on Mar 28, 2019 14:42:04 GMT -8
Excellence cannot be achieved if one continually accepts the excuses for failure. In pretty much every sport that we've had long term coaches, their best years weren't in their first 5 seasons, closer to a decade out. OSU may never have that kind of coach again if they cut and run continually, especially on coaches who are actually producing competitive teams. You and the other defenders of the status quo have brought this up before. The numbers tell a different story.
1st 5 seasons Overall Conference Casey 0.594 0.586 Miller 0.562 0.500 Rueck 0.559 0.489 Tinkle 0.475 0.389 Robinson 0.467 0.344
The first 5 seasons for the top coaches in OSU history that you've here and in the past said were not that good actually look very good compared to Tinkle. Tinkle took over after the best 6 years (Craig Robinson) since Ralph Miller and improved it by 0.8 conference wins per season and even a smaller margin for overall victories.
But let's look past the numbers, it's the product on the court that concerns me most. OSU MBB teams are not fundamentally sound and neither are the offensive and defensive game plans. Robinson got fired for similar reasons.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 28, 2019 14:45:22 GMT -8
So now it's WT's fault that the conference doesn't have any ranked teams? We were picked 10th and he finished 4th. Was it magical? Nope, but it was better than expected. That's the freaking point. It was a better than expected season because the pac12 sucked this year, not because of Wayn's coaching ability. If it was more competitive, Tinkle's team would have finished right where they were predicted. Really, so it had absolutely nothing to do with our performance.....only everyone elses. Right. So he gets no credit for beating a uo team twice that is now in the sweet 16? Some of the other teams were not as good as expected, but we still beat a handful of teams that had a lot more raw talent than our team has. That says something about his coaching, doesn't it.
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Post by osufan2k on Mar 28, 2019 14:56:05 GMT -8
That's the freaking point. It was a better than expected season because the pac12 sucked this year, not because of Wayn's coaching ability. If it was more competitive, Tinkle's team would have finished right where they were predicted. Really, so it had absolutely nothing to do with our performance.....only everyone elses. Right. So he gets no credit for beating a uo team twice that is now in the sweet 16? Some of the other teams were not as good as expected, but we still beat a handful of teams that had a lot more raw talent than our team has. That says something about his coaching, doesn't it. Sure, he can get credit for that. Gary Andersen also beat the ducks in football. Did that make him a good coach? So, is that what makes this a successful season in your eyes? Beat the ducks twice, lose in the pac12 tournament first round, fail to make the NIT or NCAA. Do you think the ducks consider their season a failure because they lost to OSU twice? Or do you think they see it as a success after losing their best player to injury early in the season, but put it all together late and made it to the sweet 16. Want to know which season I consider a success?
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 28, 2019 15:04:21 GMT -8
Really, so it had absolutely nothing to do with our performance.....only everyone elses. Right. So he gets no credit for beating a uo team twice that is now in the sweet 16? Some of the other teams were not as good as expected, but we still beat a handful of teams that had a lot more raw talent than our team has. That says something about his coaching, doesn't it. Sure, he can get credit for that. Gary Andersen also beat the ducks in football. Did that make him a good coach? So, is that what makes this a successful season in your eyes? Beat the ducks twice, lose in the pac12 tournament first round, fail to make the NIT or NCAA. Do you think the ducks consider their season a failure because they lost to OSU twice? Or do you think they see it as a success after losing their best player to injury early in the season, but put it all together late and made it to the sweet 16. Want to know which season I consider a success? No, I don;t consider the season a success, but I did see improvement over the previous year. They need to make some tourney next year (ideally the NCAA) or I will be on the side of the folks wanting a new coach. By the way, comparing GAG to Tinkle is a new low for any poster on this board. And the ucks were picked to win the league. Getting to the sweet 16 should have be their minimum goal at the beginning of the year.
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Post by albanianbeav on Mar 28, 2019 15:07:41 GMT -8
I voted 3, not because I think he has done a good job, but more because I like him as a person and think he can figure it out. I am hopeful he has learned some things and will improve his coaching game. I also think he did not handle coaching three coaches’ sons very well and am eager to see what he can do without that element. 3 years gives him time to develop his current recruits and cycle the sons out. One caveat to my 3 years, he has to show progress, meaning a better prepared team, a team that hustles, better recruiting, and better game management.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 28, 2019 16:13:12 GMT -8
Really, so it had absolutely nothing to do with our performance.....only everyone elses. Right. So he gets no credit for beating a uo team twice that is now in the sweet 16? Some of the other teams were not as good as expected, but we still beat a handful of teams that had a lot more raw talent than our team has. That says something about his coaching, doesn't it. Sure, he can get credit for that. Gary Andersen also beat the ducks in football. Did that make him a good coach? So, is that what makes this a successful season in your eyes? Beat the ducks twice, lose in the pac12 tournament first round, fail to make the NIT or NCAA. Do you think the ducks consider their season a failure because they lost to OSU twice? Or do you think they see it as a success after losing their best player to injury early in the season, but put it all together late and made it to the sweet 16. Want to know which season I consider a success? I certainly don't consider 18 wins, a couple of road sweeps and 2 wins over a sweet 16 team to be an abject failure.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 28, 2019 16:23:54 GMT -8
Sure, he can get credit for that. Gary Andersen also beat the ducks in football. Did that make him a good coach? So, is that what makes this a successful season in your eyes? Beat the ducks twice, lose in the pac12 tournament first round, fail to make the NIT or NCAA. Do you think the ducks consider their season a failure because they lost to OSU twice? Or do you think they see it as a success after losing their best player to injury early in the season, but put it all together late and made it to the sweet 16. Want to know which season I consider a success? I certainly don't consider 18 wins, a couple of road sweeps and 2 wins over a sweet 16 team to be an abject failure. So... since it's fair game to cherry pick stats, throw out conjecture... 18 wins... 8-4 vs the 214th (depending on the site it could be as high as #195) ranked NC schedule. What's the win total with... let's say a top 100 NC schedule? What about a above average Pac12 and a decent NC schedule? What 10? 11? 12? 13 wins at most? Keep posting excuses and fallacies. Not one poster I've read mentioned "abject failure".
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 28, 2019 16:40:14 GMT -8
I certainly don't consider 18 wins, a couple of road sweeps and 2 wins over a sweet 16 team to be an abject failure. So... since it's fair game to cherry pick stats, throw out conjecture... 18 wins... 8-4 vs the 214th (depending on the site it could be as high as #195) ranked NC schedule. What's the win total with... let's say a top 100 NC schedule? What about a above average Pac12 and a decent NC schedule? What 10? 11? 12? 13 wins at most? Keep posting excuses and fallacies. Not one poster I've read mentioned "abject failure". Now I get to play you. They had 18 wins, their record was what it was, you can't cherry pickn anything else is conjecture. Get back to me when the Beavs have a bad season.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 28, 2019 16:43:26 GMT -8
So... since it's fair game to cherry pick stats, throw out conjecture... 18 wins... 8-4 vs the 214th (depending on the site it could be as high as #195) ranked NC schedule. What's the win total with... let's say a top 100 NC schedule? What about a above average Pac12 and a decent NC schedule? What 10? 11? 12? 13 wins at most? Keep posting excuses and fallacies. Not one poster I've read mentioned "abject failure". Now I get to play you. They had 18 wins, their record was what it was, you can't cherry pickn anything else is conjecture. Get back to me when the Beavs have a bad season. This year... 2-5 finish, lose in 1st game after a bye in Pac12 tourney. 2016 And... of course still no objective support of his coaching or recruiting. Hmmmmm
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