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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 6, 2018 11:22:06 GMT -8
You guys should all read, "A School for the People," the recently-published history of OSU. Lots of background, etc., on the MacVicar/Byrne eras, in particular. They had their drawbacks and different management styles but the refusal of the state legislature to properly fund higher education and Measure 5 really put them behind the 8-ball. Lots of material on Risser/Ray as well. It also does not paint a very nice picture of tsdtw, in regards to working together with OSU as a peer university. osupress.oregonstate.edu/book/school-for-peopleI wonder how that compares to "The People's School: A History of Oregon State University," which was published the same year. Whoops, I linked the Larry Landis book, which is primarily a photo book. Bill Robbins' book (linked below) is a detailed written history, starting with the founding of Corvallis College, the precursor to present-day OSU. My bad. osupress.oregonstate.edu/book/peoples-school
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Post by seastape on Feb 6, 2018 11:44:09 GMT -8
I wonder how that compares to "The People's School: A History of Oregon State University," which was published the same year. Whoops, I linked the Larry Landis book, which is primarily a photo book. Bill Robbins' book (linked below) is a detailed written history, starting with the founding of Corvallis College, the precursor to present-day OSU. My bad. osupress.oregonstate.edu/book/peoples-schoolI suspect the two books, which at least partially share a cover, are complementary of each other.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 6, 2018 11:54:51 GMT -8
The state legislature has a long history of underfunding higher education.
But it is a serious mistake to underestimate the impact of Measure 5. Bryne made sure the university survived the ensuing cuts mostly intact, and Risser and Ray have done a wonderful job of raising expectations and seeking/finding outside funding opportunities.
However, there is no question OSU and the other state universities would be even greater without Measure 5. Yes, it did provide taxpayer relief. It also directly led to an unprecedented rise in tuition and fees, and the elimination of programs (journalism/hotel-restaurant management, to name a few) that have never returned.
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 6, 2018 12:03:15 GMT -8
The apathetic fan base has a damn good reason to be. Apathetic hiring, funding, recruiting, adapting, changing.... its been ahelluva long, mostly bleak haul since we had stability regarding the hoops program. Old farts like me have given up any hope that any serious change will happen in the next thirty. No vision, no urgency, no give-a-s%#t. Maybe it simply isn’t possible for OSU to have success in more than a couple programs at a time..?..Not enough money, fans, give-a-s%#t. Hell, it’s never happened, even though we certainly expect it. Who do we think we are? Notre friggin Dame? This is likely the reason that WT is both on and not on the hot-seat. He's currently doing a good enough job that the program isn't an embarrassment would force a major change. So if there's apathy in the admin, he'll be fine. The fan apathy is also a reason why he should be firmly on the hot seat. This should be a team that's easy to get behind: coach's kids that are fundamentally sound, play the right way, and with passion. Instead, we have a team that consistently allows long runs to the opposition that they can't overcome with a run of their own - especially on the road. We've been just good enough to believe this team will find a way over the hump. However, the lack of delivery on that potential is perfect at creating apathy - repeatedly crushing the fan-base's optimism is a sure-fire way encourage fans to stop caring - there simply has been little return on the financial and emotional investment of doing so. I'm speaking for me personally, but the attendance numbers means I'm not alone - I simply am no longer willing to tune in/show up to have the rest of my day ruined by hoping this team will find a way to close, and it not happen.
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dK
Freshman
Posts: 393
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Post by dK on Feb 6, 2018 12:04:41 GMT -8
dK already noted that baseball had some success despite the fact that the school didn't invest in it. "some success" - meaning occasionally winning a 6-team conference which included PSU and UP. That's just the definition of "success" that MacVicar made his career on. You should get your "facts" straight. Jack Riley was 613-411-5 .596 winning percentage in his time at OS. League record was 274-101 .731. By comparison, Casey is 845-446-5 .644 overall and 342-259 .569 in league play. Riley averaged about 12 1/2 league wins a year. He had some poor years before your time but won a couple division titles when you were at OS with 16, 17, 11, 12 wins in 94 league games. Granted that Casey plays a tougher league schedule, but Riley ran a great baseball program for 22 years especially given the lack of resources he had to work with. I'm not understanding your disdain for the career of a successful coach who epitomizes what OS is about.
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Post by bennyskid on Feb 6, 2018 12:13:33 GMT -8
1. I love Jack Riley. I watched games from the roof of Snell. Jack was a successful coach. But the pattern at OSU was this: we put out programs on the cheap, have some amount of success due solely to the excellence and diligence of people like Riley and Hill, and our "leaders" - Baughman and MacVicar - would call it a day. Can you imagine what Aki and Jack could have done with just the tiniest bit of support from the administration?
2. Measure 5 was passed in 1990. That was well after OSU hit rock bottom. Ironically, I suspect that Measure 5 was good for OSU - it forced our administration to face the reality that the legislature was a dry well. We had to start digging in new ground.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 6, 2018 12:37:19 GMT -8
2. Measure 5 was passed in 1990. That was well after OSU hit rock bottom. Ironically, I suspect that Measure 5 was good for OSU - it forced our administration to face the reality that the legislature was a dry well. We had to start digging in new ground. I agree with the second part, as far as it forced OSU to realize the legislature didn't (and still doesn't) give a whit about higher education, and to seek other funding sources. But Measure 5 wasn't good for most at any level of education. Athletics really would have been helped had the tiny 5-cent tax on alcohol passed in 1988. But the restaurant/hospitality lobby was too strong to overcome.
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dK
Freshman
Posts: 393
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Post by dK on Feb 6, 2018 16:39:41 GMT -8
1. I love Jack Riley. I watched games from the roof of Snell. Jack was a successful coach. But the pattern at OSU was this: we put out programs on the cheap, have some amount of success due solely to the excellence and diligence of people like Riley and Hill, and our "leaders" - Baughman and MacVicar - would call it a day. Can you imagine what Aki and Jack could have done with just the tiniest bit of support from the administration? 2. Measure 5 was passed in 1990. That was well after OSU hit rock bottom. Ironically, I suspect that Measure 5 was good for OSU - it forced our administration to face the reality that the legislature was a dry well. We had to start digging in new ground. Now you love Jack Riley? Yeah, I guess he had a pretty successful run at a slightly better than club sport level. Jeeesh. Why can't you just admit that the club sport barb was intentionally fallacious. BTW he was so mediocre that you got to watch a couple future major league players from your rooftop perch.
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Post by jdogge on Feb 6, 2018 18:26:58 GMT -8
OSU has got to be one of the worst P5 athletic programs in the country. Times have changed and OSU does not belong in the PAC 12. We belong in the Mountain West or maybe even in the Big Sky. You're retarded. You must be talking to yourself. Use your adult words: only pre-pubescents use words like that.
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Post by bennyskid on Feb 6, 2018 19:26:52 GMT -8
Now you love Jack Riley? Yeah, I guess he had a pretty successful run at a slightly better than club sport level. Jeeesh. Why can't you just admit that the club sport barb was intentionally fallacious. BTW he was so mediocre that you got to watch a couple future major league players from your rooftop perch. And apparently you were satisfied with that, just like Dutch. It was enough to be above-average in one of the least distinguished conferences in the country. Did you never have a thought as to what a coach like Jack Riley could have done with a little money for travel, assistant coaches, and recruiting? Well, Dutch Baughman didn't, either, so we had to wait another 20 years to find out.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 6, 2018 19:56:12 GMT -8
Me thinks this thread is pretty off the rails
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Post by jdogge on Feb 6, 2018 21:59:55 GMT -8
You must be talking to yourself. Use your adult words: only pre-pubescents use words like that. STFU. Oh, I see. You can take the boy out of the frat, but you can't take the frat out of the boy. You still trying to find someone to pin?
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Post by beaverdreams on Feb 6, 2018 22:53:58 GMT -8
Me thinks this thread is pretty off the rails Uhhhh yeah, lol.....
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Post by mbabeav on Feb 7, 2018 17:18:15 GMT -8
1. I love Jack Riley. I watched games from the roof of Snell. Jack was a successful coach. But the pattern at OSU was this: we put out programs on the cheap, have some amount of success due solely to the excellence and diligence of people like Riley and Hill, and our "leaders" - Baughman and MacVicar - would call it a day. Can you imagine what Aki and Jack could have done with just the tiniest bit of support from the administration? 2. Measure 5 was passed in 1990. That was well after OSU hit rock bottom. Ironically, I suspect that Measure 5 was good for OSU - it forced our administration to face the reality that the legislature was a dry well. We had to start digging in new ground. Wrong - Measure 5 nearly killed OSU, as the only well left was rapidly rising tuition. Enrollment 1990 - 16,000 Enrollment 1997 - 14,000 - rock bottom Enrollment 1999 - 16,000 Enrollment 2002 - 18,800 Bill "Felon" Sizemore's out of state funded property tax initiative (which cut corporate taxes far more than private) caused OSU enrollment to fall precipitously as the state funded less and less of the cost of school. It wasn't until President Risser arrived and the economy grew rapidly in the late 1990's that enrollment started to recover. I still insist that the single greatest thing that President Risser did was insist on the hiring of Dennis Erickson - winning football brought this school back!
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Post by sagebrush on Feb 8, 2018 6:05:22 GMT -8
mba: nail, meet hammer. Outstanding job.
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