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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 21, 2017 7:26:05 GMT -8
Not surprising. LBSU returned to PDX on Saturday night and flew to Pittsburgh on Sunday morning. Pretty short turnaround. Not gonna play as well the second half of a two-day road trip, especially after going across the country and having their body clocks messed up by three time zones.
They are a team we should beat, and we did, rather comfortably.
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Post by jdogge on Nov 21, 2017 8:22:25 GMT -8
32-5, back to back to back Pac12 titles, playing top 5 ND... vs 5-27, with 1 Pac12 win, playing unranked rebuilding LBSt. ================== You coach against the team you're playing that day. What happened last week or last year doesn't matter. For Tinkle, winning on Saturday was more important than getting minutes for freshmen who will have ample opportunities down the road, just as it was for Rueck on Sunday. Comparing the two coaches, programs, and their "supposed" thought processes aren't even in the same realm of intelligent discussion. WT's program is hanging by a "cord". Next year's class being signed is huge for him. But, as posted by another this year's squad (will make 2+ seasons now) is growing tired of the son's being hands off to "coaching" that is deemed appropriate for others. WT not only needs Ws, he needs to develop some team trust in him and ST Sr. to hold everyone to the same standards. Opinions are what fan boards are for. But, this program is in big trouble if a random W over LBSt in game 3 is so important you have to shorten a rotation not even built. "Comparing the two coaches, programs, and their "supposed" thought processes aren't even in the same realm of intelligent discussion." Yet, you did just that. Geez Louise, it would be nice to upload a copy of your double standard rule book so we'd know how to play your game.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 8:40:52 GMT -8
- I know it's early, but I thought I'd see more of Berger by now. Of course in the whistle-fest first game, he picked up 5 fouls in about 5 minutes... I think he and Hollins will grow into more PT as the season progresses. - Our perimeter kids have the "I'll let you blow by me, won't move my feet, but I'll make a half-hearted reach-in attempt" move down pat. I used to own that move. It's in the Corvallis Parks & Rec Hall of Fame. They shouldn't use my move at this level though. Should I say something? - Honestly, I really don't know what to make of Jaquori at this point. - Drew's free throw shooting. Wow. Very impressed! - From a chemistry standpoint, no, obviously the shots aren't falling, but I've seen plenty of times where we make the extra pass or even become a little too unselfish on a few possessions. Pretty good sign IMO... Now let's knock some shots down. - Anyone have a Kone update? yeah things are never good/bad as they look in 1 game. The opponent has a lot to do with that. LB state was SO soft inside but the difference this year is freaking Eubanks wanted to make them PAY. Drew seems to have developed a foot-on-the throat no mercy instinct. That and the improved foul shooting gives this team guaranteed inside scoring that many teams don't have. He seems to also be better at avoiding cheap fouls so far. Coaching staff needs to help him by doubling his man if teams try to go right at him.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 21, 2017 10:08:15 GMT -8
- I know it's early, but I thought I'd see more of Berger by now. Of course in the whistle-fest first game, he picked up 5 fouls in about 5 minutes... I think he and Hollins will grow into more PT as the season progresses. - Our perimeter kids have the "I'll let you blow by me, won't move my feet, but I'll make a half-hearted reach-in attempt" move down pat. I used to own that move. It's in the Corvallis Parks & Rec Hall of Fame. They shouldn't use my move at this level though. Should I say something? - Honestly, I really don't know what to make of Jaquori at this point. - Drew's free throw shooting. Wow. Very impressed! - From a chemistry standpoint, no, obviously the shots aren't falling, but I've seen plenty of times where we make the extra pass or even become a little too unselfish on a few possessions. Pretty good sign IMO... Now let's knock some shots down. - Anyone have a Kone update? yeah things are never good/bad as they look in 1 game. The opponent has a lot to do with that. LB state was SO soft inside but the difference this year is freaking Eubanks wanted to make them PAY. Drew seems to have developed a foot-on-the throat no mercy instinct. That and the improved foul shooting gives this team guaranteed inside scoring that many teams don't have. He seems to also be better at avoiding cheap fouls so far. Coaching staff needs to help him by doubling his man if teams try to go right at him. Tres and Eubanks are quality players. Our back court is solid. I fail to understand any conversation about Tres being the issue with this team, even from the "coach's kid" perspective. He had one crappy game. everybody does. Tres is a day in and day out leader, fighter, scrambler and role model on the court. His crappy day wasn't even a total bomb. Yes, way too many TOs, but he still shot well. This team's issue is the FRONT court. The issue this team has, that will determine if we are a 10 win team or a 17+ win team is consistent play from our 1 and 2. We need consistent PG play that is TO free. We need consistent shooting efforts from Stevie. He can't keep putting up 0-7 behind the arc stinkers and refuse to penetrate and dish the ball. We need our front court defenders to... i dunno... DEFEND! This team is great down low. Great scraping in side. We are strong rebounders Tres and Eubanks are doing everything you can ask from them. We are not getting solid shooting efforts from our shooters, and we are not defending the arc well at all. I mean, I know it is only 3 games, but we are giving up 41.4% from behind the arc. That is among the worse in the nation. 317th to be exact. I would imagine, if I could find a handy stat, we find out we are pretty miserable overall from mid range jumper out. I bet we would find we are pretty dang good in the paint. But that isn't ever pushed, because teams can just kill us with the pull up jumper because our perimeter defenders are... not great.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 21, 2017 11:10:10 GMT -8
yeah things are never good/bad as they look in 1 game. The opponent has a lot to do with that. LB state was SO soft inside but the difference this year is freaking Eubanks wanted to make them PAY. Drew seems to have developed a foot-on-the throat no mercy instinct. That and the improved foul shooting gives this team guaranteed inside scoring that many teams don't have. He seems to also be better at avoiding cheap fouls so far. Coaching staff needs to help him by doubling his man if teams try to go right at him. Tres and Eubanks are quality players. Our back court is solid. I fail to understand any conversation about Tres being the issue with this team, even from the "coach's kid" perspective. He had one crappy game. everybody does. Tres is a day in and day out leader, fighter, scrambler and role model on the court. His crappy day wasn't even a total bomb. Yes, way too many TOs, but he still shot well. This team's issue is the FRONT court. The issue this team has, that will determine if we are a 10 win team or a 17+ win team is consistent play from our 1 and 2. We need consistent PG play that is TO free. We need consistent shooting efforts from Stevie. He can't keep putting up 0-7 behind the arc stinkers and refuse to penetrate and dish the ball. We need our front court defenders to... i dunno... DEFEND! This team is great down low. Great scraping in side. We are strong rebounders Tres and Eubanks are doing everything you can ask from them. We are not getting solid shooting efforts from our shooters, and we are not defending the arc well at all. I mean, I know it is only 3 games, but we are giving up 41.4% from behind the arc. That is among the worse in the nation. 317th to be exact. I would imagine, if I could find a handy stat, we find out we are pretty miserable overall from mid range jumper out. I bet we would find we are pretty dang good in the paint. But that isn't ever pushed, because teams can just kill us with the pull up jumper because our perimeter defenders are... not great. Tres is an "issue" because he can't play a lick of D, especially vs average or better players at his position. And the Pac12 is loaded at the PF/SF positions. This team either plays defense or they have no chance at a postseason berth. No one questions his desire and playing hard. As you pointed out 3 pt D is bad, and 2pt is high 40's. Defense is a weakness of this entire team... there is no good, let alone great, individual defender and we play horrible team D. The defensive liabilities are magnified by the fact the team is shooting 42% without Drew and Tres... the other starters are 38%. I'm not sure if this team will be anything but streaky, so team D and much better individual D is a must. The front court is very much an issue... there is no depth and no one is getting significant playing time to develop said depth. Drew and Tres are not even average defenders and right now the only two consistent scorers. With the poor team D they are always out of position on switches, and PT minutes are too high to stay fresh. Pac12 play will magnify any lack of depth inside as Tres and Drew will be asked to defend much better players (as will others) and then be trying to help when the back court is beat. Kone' will return soon, but again he'll be untested and out of shape. Unless Big G, Hollins, and Berger begin getting minutes to develop we'll be basically counting on Drew and Tres for 36 min a night and/or facing a huge drop off when they face foul trouble... which will happen. PG play has been shared and JM has less to's than Tres. Ethan actually does a great job of handling the ball without forcing and is at about 4:1 A to TO. The issue with JM is he has a very mechanical/slow/ineffective shot. He's not going to hurt anyone from the outside on a consistent basis and when he is on the floor teams can play 5 on 4 on their defensive end. He does even offer the defensive stopper capability to counter his lack of offense. I saw him as being much more accomplished coming out of HS... on both ends. Wins are needed... but, player development of Hollins is ESSENTIAL to allow Ethan and Stevie to share the 1 and 2 and get three perimeter threats on the court. Hollins has a better upside all over the court than JM until he proves otherwise. Same goes with Big G... he has paid his dues and has shown improvement enough to be on the court more and provide rest and the ability to go with three bigs... Drew, Tres, Big G.
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Post by obf on Nov 21, 2017 11:20:54 GMT -8
yeah things are never good/bad as they look in 1 game. The opponent has a lot to do with that. LB state was SO soft inside but the difference this year is freaking Eubanks wanted to make them PAY. Drew seems to have developed a foot-on-the throat no mercy instinct. That and the improved foul shooting gives this team guaranteed inside scoring that many teams don't have. He seems to also be better at avoiding cheap fouls so far. Coaching staff needs to help him by doubling his man if teams try to go right at him. Tres and Eubanks are quality players. Our back court is solid. I fail to understand any conversation about Tres being the issue with this team, even from the "coach's kid" perspective. He had one crappy game. everybody does. Tres is a day in and day out leader, fighter, scrambler and role model on the court. His crappy day wasn't even a total bomb. Yes, way too many TOs, but he still shot well. This team's issue is the FRONT court. The issue this team has, that will determine if we are a 10 win team or a 17+ win team is consistent play from our 1 and 2. We need consistent PG play that is TO free. We need consistent shooting efforts from Stevie. He can't keep putting up 0-7 behind the arc stinkers and refuse to penetrate and dish the ball. We need our front court defenders to... i dunno... DEFEND! This team is great down low. Great scraping in side. We are strong rebounders Tres and Eubanks are doing everything you can ask from them. We are not getting solid shooting efforts from our shooters, and we are not defending the arc well at all. I mean, I know it is only 3 games, but we are giving up 41.4% from behind the arc. That is among the worse in the nation. 317th to be exact. I would imagine, if I could find a handy stat, we find out we are pretty miserable overall from mid range jumper out. I bet we would find we are pretty dang good in the paint. But that isn't ever pushed, because teams can just kill us with the pull up jumper because our perimeter defenders are... not great. I think you got front court and back court switched... www.livestrong.com/article/543095-what-is-the-difference-between-the-frontcourt-the-backcourt-in-basketball/:Back court = PG and SG Front court = SF, PF, C In general I agree though. Tres, Berger, Drew, Big G, and Kone have the big guy positions pretty much sew up and solid... Our PG and SG play is AWFUL... I think Ethan will take a few games to figure out D1 basketball, and I like Manuel quite a bit. I actually think JM is better than most do, but he needs to step it up as well.... Stevie I think needs to take a long look in the mirror and sit for a couple games...
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Post by obf on Nov 21, 2017 11:22:25 GMT -8
I'd rather that the people on this board simply learn to press "Create Thread" when they want to vent on a topic unrelated to the original post. It seems more economical. Jeez... I hate reading thru a thread and just a random bitch about what posters schools do pops up. LMAO Like ANY thread... almost zero... ever stay on topic of the thread title. And... really? Hollins is men's hoops... whatever the eff you're whining about is also men's hoops and a direct off shoot of talking about Hollins and a lack of PT. Much more related than many many threads on here. You must be disappointed a lot. Again create your own "rules" on your own board. Otherwise, your bitch is the post that doesn't fit. Yeah... but, you can't have this attitude and then also have the attitude of"if you don't want to read the thread don't click on it!" If the thread title is misleading (which this one now definitely is), then the "don't click on it" excuse people love to throw out is invalid...
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Post by obf on Nov 21, 2017 11:29:28 GMT -8
32-5, back to back to back Pac12 titles, playing top 5 ND... vs 5-27, with 1 Pac12 win, playing unranked rebuilding LBSt. ================== You coach against the team you're playing that day. What happened last week or last year doesn't matter. For Tinkle, winning on Saturday was more important than getting minutes for freshmen who will have ample opportunities down the road, just as it was for Rueck on Sunday. Comparing the two coaches, programs, and their "supposed" thought processes aren't even in the same realm of intelligent discussion. WT's program is hanging by a "cord". Next year's class being signed is huge for him. But, as posted by another this year's squad (will make 2+ seasons now) is growing tired of the son's being hands off to "coaching" that is deemed appropriate for others. WT not only needs Ws, he needs to develop some team trust in him and ST Sr. to hold everyone to the same standards. Opinions are what fan boards are for. But, this program is in big trouble if a random W over LBSt in game 3 is so important you have to shorten a rotation not even built. This. This is going to be THE issue this year, and if it doesn't get cleaned up it will spell the end of Mr. Tinkle... Funny thing is it isn't even HIS son getting the preferential treatment! Let me spell it out clearly... Stevie Thompson is the player getting special treatment and kid gloves, and has no real performance to demand it either! The shortened rotation against LBST didn't bother me, it was WHO was shortened... I would have MUCh rather seen Hollins get a bunch of minutes and let Stevie stew on the bench for the ENTIRE game... I bet we still win even... I am not sure why STJ is getting away with whatever he wants, seems like Tinkle would realise he is the boss and his assistants son can't get all the leeway in the world... or maybe this is the vigorish for getting Ethan here... who knows, but it stinks.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 21, 2017 13:36:05 GMT -8
Tres and Eubanks are quality players. Our back court is solid. I fail to understand any conversation about Tres being the issue with this team, even from the "coach's kid" perspective. He had one crappy game. everybody does. Tres is a day in and day out leader, fighter, scrambler and role model on the court. His crappy day wasn't even a total bomb. Yes, way too many TOs, but he still shot well. This team's issue is the FRONT court. The issue this team has, that will determine if we are a 10 win team or a 17+ win team is consistent play from our 1 and 2. We need consistent PG play that is TO free. We need consistent shooting efforts from Stevie. He can't keep putting up 0-7 behind the arc stinkers and refuse to penetrate and dish the ball. We need our front court defenders to... i dunno... DEFEND! This team is great down low. Great scraping in side. We are strong rebounders Tres and Eubanks are doing everything you can ask from them. We are not getting solid shooting efforts from our shooters, and we are not defending the arc well at all. I mean, I know it is only 3 games, but we are giving up 41.4% from behind the arc. That is among the worse in the nation. 317th to be exact. I would imagine, if I could find a handy stat, we find out we are pretty miserable overall from mid range jumper out. I bet we would find we are pretty dang good in the paint. But that isn't ever pushed, because teams can just kill us with the pull up jumper because our perimeter defenders are... not great. I think you got front court and back court switched... www.livestrong.com/article/543095-what-is-the-difference-between-the-frontcourt-the-backcourt-in-basketball/:Back court = PG and SG Front court = SF, PF, C In general I agree though. Tres, Berger, Drew, Big G, and Kone have the big guy positions pretty much sew up and solid... Our PG and SG play is AWFUL... I think Ethan will take a few games to figure out D1 basketball, and I like Manuel quite a bit. I actually think JM is better than most do, but he needs to step it up as well.... Stevie I think needs to take a long look in the mirror and sit for a couple games... Yes, sorry. I swapped them. My bad I was a wrestler after all! what do I know about basketball... But regardless, I view weak link on this team to be our PG and SG. inconsistent passing and leadership from PG. Spotty shooting from both, and miserable defense from both. I think Ethan has some potential there, tough to judge a true freshman after 3 games... Stevie absolutely has potential... but his streaky shooting only amplifies his bad defense. If he was a monster 20 point a game, dagger to the heart 3 point shooter and ball handler... I'd put up with his non-existent D. but he is not. he will have one of those games every 10 or so. I profoundly disagree that Tres is any issue. Is he an all-star? no. but he is a leader on this team, by example. Kid never takes a play off... much to his detriment and he is a injury ticking time bomb! Eubanks appears to have a renewed focus and looks much more the team player this year. We gotta solve our guards.
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Post by obf on Nov 21, 2017 14:01:05 GMT -8
I think you got front court and back court switched... www.livestrong.com/article/543095-what-is-the-difference-between-the-frontcourt-the-backcourt-in-basketball/:Back court = PG and SG Front court = SF, PF, C In general I agree though. Tres, Berger, Drew, Big G, and Kone have the big guy positions pretty much sew up and solid... Our PG and SG play is AWFUL... I think Ethan will take a few games to figure out D1 basketball, and I like Manuel quite a bit. I actually think JM is better than most do, but he needs to step it up as well.... Stevie I think needs to take a long look in the mirror and sit for a couple games... Yes, sorry. I swapped them. My bad I was a wrestler after all! what do I know about basketball... But regardless, I view weak link on this team to be our PG and SG. inconsistent passing and leadership from PG. Spotty shooting from both, and miserable defense from both. I think Ethan has some potential there, tough to judge a true freshman after 3 games... Stevie absolutely has potential... but his streaky shooting only amplifies his bad defense. If he was a monster 20 point a game, dagger to the heart 3 point shooter and ball handler... I'd put up with his non-existent D. but he is not. he will have one of those games every 10 or so. I profoundly disagree that Tres is any issue. Is he an all-star? no. but he is a leader on this team, by example. Kid never takes a play off... much to his detriment and he is a injury ticking time bomb! Eubanks appears to have a renewed focus and looks much more the team player this year. We gotta solve our guards. 100% agreed. Although I would NOT define STJ as a streaky shooter... just a bad one. 3 pt % game 1 2 3 4 5 6
Player A: 38 37 39 35 37 36
Player B: 25 50 25 50 25 50
Player C: 10 8 90 15 12 14
Player A is consistently good Player B is "streaky" PLayer C is just bad... Notice A and B have similar averages (37, and 37.5). Player C had the best individual game, but a poor average (24.8). One great (lucky) night does not make a bad shooter streaky, just means he got hot or lucky, in aggregate he is still bad... At this point calling Stevie Bad and equating him to player C above is a disservice to the fictional player C! one for FIFTEEN! 6.66%! Terrible, awful stupendously horrid.... I know I know only 3 games... maybe lower your attempts until you are feeling hotter though! last season Stevie was 57-167, 34%... That is a marginal 3 point shooter... So it's not like history tells us that STJ is a great (40%+) three point shooter, and he is just going through a cold spell...
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 21, 2017 19:29:30 GMT -8
Wyoming won again today. SDSU, who Wyoming beat on Monday, crushed Iowa today.
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Post by ag87 on Nov 21, 2017 23:11:14 GMT -8
Comparing the two coaches, programs, and their "supposed" thought processes aren't even in the same realm of intelligent discussion. WT's program is hanging by a "cord". Next year's class being signed is huge for him. But, as posted by another this year's squad (will make 2+ seasons now) is growing tired of the son's being hands off to "coaching" that is deemed appropriate for others. WT not only needs Ws, he needs to develop some team trust in him and ST Sr. to hold everyone to the same standards. Opinions are what fan boards are for. But, this program is in big trouble if a random W over LBSt in game 3 is so important you have to shorten a rotation not even built. This. This is going to be THE issue this year, and if it doesn't get cleaned up it will spell the end of Mr. Tinkle... Funny thing is it isn't even HIS son getting the preferential treatment! Let me spell it out clearly... Stevie Thompson is the player getting special treatment and kid gloves, and has no real performance to demand it either! The shortened rotation against LBST didn't bother me, it was WHO was shortened... I would have MUCh rather seen Hollins get a bunch of minutes and let Stevie stew on the bench for the ENTIRE game... I bet we still win even... I am not sure why STJ is getting away with whatever he wants, seems like Tinkle would realise he is the boss and his assistants son can't get all the leeway in the world... or maybe this is the vigorish for getting Ethan here... who knows, but it stinks. My problem with Stevie is that he is still skinny. Maybe there is a health issue of which I am unaware. And there are two parts to this - 1) if he was 15 pounds heavier, he would be able to defend better and I think he'd have more consistency in his jumper as a game progressed 2) it seems like muscle gain is a "want to", similar to hard-nosed defense
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Post by obf on Nov 22, 2017 8:15:21 GMT -8
This. This is going to be THE issue this year, and if it doesn't get cleaned up it will spell the end of Mr. Tinkle... Funny thing is it isn't even HIS son getting the preferential treatment! Let me spell it out clearly... Stevie Thompson is the player getting special treatment and kid gloves, and has no real performance to demand it either! The shortened rotation against LBST didn't bother me, it was WHO was shortened... I would have MUCh rather seen Hollins get a bunch of minutes and let Stevie stew on the bench for the ENTIRE game... I bet we still win even... I am not sure why STJ is getting away with whatever he wants, seems like Tinkle would realise he is the boss and his assistants son can't get all the leeway in the world... or maybe this is the vigorish for getting Ethan here... who knows, but it stinks. My problem with Stevie is that he is still skinny. Maybe there is a health issue of which I am unaware. And there are two parts to this - 1) if he was 15 pounds heavier, he would be able to defend better and I think he'd have more consistency in his jumper as a game progressed 2) it seems like muscle gain is a "want to", similar to hard-nosed defense I have been a Fat-Ass since birth (10lb 4oz)... so it is really not a problem I can sympathize with That being said, for some ectomorphs, putting on size and weight is truly a struggle and nearly impossible... However i don't think it is a requirement. Strength and size are not the same thing. I know plenty of stick thin farmers/ranchers who look like a stiff breeze could knock them over, but are wiry strong and could out lift me any day of the week. Just ask players who played against Mutombo if he was "skinny" or "strong", or if Reggie Miller was a poor shooter because of how thin he was... Bottom line, yeah he is skinny, but that should be no excuse. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, whether than is not working hard enough in the weight room, not working hard enough on his shot, or just not being that good of a basketball player...
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 22, 2017 8:29:28 GMT -8
I feel that singling out Stevie for defense is counter productive when we do not have anyone on this team that is an above average defender. I'm fearful that this team is going down the same path as CR's teams. In the first couple of years for both coaches, the focus was on defense and a methodical offense. They both overachieved with the talent that they had in the first couple of years. Then, when better athletes were recruited, both coaches allowed their players to go more up-tempo and they lost their defensive focus and intensity.
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Post by obf on Nov 22, 2017 9:39:00 GMT -8
I feel that singling out Stevie for defense is counter productive when we do not have anyone on this team that is an above average defender. I'm fearful that this team is going down the same path as CR's teams. In the first couple of years for both coaches, the focus was on defense and a methodical offense. They both overachieved with the talent that they had in the first couple of years. Then, when better athletes were recruited, both coaches allowed their players to go more up-tempo and they lost their defensive focus and intensity. I am more calling out WT and ST for not holding all the kids accountable to the same standards... But, yeah I agree they all need to up the defensive intensity. I never understood why high energy defensive zones and traps were only for UNTALENTED players... seems logical to me that they would work even better with talented ones...
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