ftd
Sophomore
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,214
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Post by ftd on Jul 6, 2024 18:24:15 GMT -8
The Civil War Game is history The Civil War. The overall hatred for tsdtr will be there FOREVER not matter which conference either team is playing in.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 6, 2024 20:36:16 GMT -8
The thing is that it was not about the money. It was about viewership. And it was about Washington. From all indications, Oregon wanted to stick it out in the Pac-12 but did not see a way forward without Washington. I think that a lot of this Oregon vilification and hatred is wildly misplaced. Washington is the true villain here. Oregon is an Igor at best. I could see all of this angst, if Oregon draggedWashington kicking and screaming out of the conference. But that is flatly not the case. I have seen less angst out of a pack of teenagers. Stuff and nonsense. Assuming all of this is true, they still made the decision, just like UW, to abandon their partner university in the same state, same conference. I also did not see hole protesting the traitorous ten trying to take the money and run. If your point is they have less accountability for the blowup than UW - okay, but they are still culpable. Kinda like two bank robbers, one in the bank, and one in the getaway car. The getaway driver is still going to jail.
I like you, would like to roll back the hands of time to when the conference was intact, and we had our 108 year rivalry intact. As has been said, that ship has sailed, and by all accounts, considering how the entire personality, budget, attitudes, etc of hole has changed - it ain't ever comin back.
The United States of America just celebrated its 248th birthday. The Civil War turns 130 this year. 2024 will be game 128. For more than half of the United States of America's history, there has been a Civil War. Comparing the destruction of the Pac-12 to a bank robbery is not very apt IMO. It is more like the Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Wazzu had plans to all go fishing together. The boat is rented. The gear has been purchased. But then the Big Ten invites Oregon and Washington to go on a cruise with them. Oregon and Washington could go fishing but decide to go on the cruise. And then Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah flaked out and went to a party that they were invited to. And Cal and Stanford just decided to go on a hike instead. And now Oregon State and Wazzu are stewing, because they were not invited and because Oregon and Washington went without them. Washington and Wazzu are signed to keep playing through 2028. But Oregon State is thinking about stopping to hang out with Oregon, because of..................reasons, which cannot be articulated in a way that makes any sense to me. Oregon and Washington owe us squat. If we thought that they did, we are fools IMO. Oregon State is playing Cal. Should we snub Cal, too? Do we never play any of the former members of the Pac-12 again, despite the fact that it is to our benefit? I just do not understand the end game here. There is no logic or reason to not play Oregon IMO. It is a road to disaster and ruin. Things can and will get worse down that road.
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Post by ee1990 on Jul 7, 2024 0:40:15 GMT -8
Okay? There's nobody at OSU who has those virtues. If the question is play in the MWC and freaking WCC or play in the B1G for $70,000,000 a year, you'd be screaming bloody murder if the powers that be picked the former. It's super easy to take the high road on paper when in reality there was no option to do what the dirty evil greedy teams did. Maybe not - but they should. Actions have consequences. This isn't about whether or not OSU would have done the same thing. It is what happens when you decide to leave a long standing relationship, a conference you made pledges to, and burn a bridge on the way out the door.
In business, the timeless adage has always been do not burn a bridge when moving on to a better opportunity - it may come back to haunt you. Turning down a TV deal before giving it a chance, not being forthright about the under the table negotiations, trying to take money out of the conference on the way out the door, etc. in my opinion - was burning a bridge. They did not do it with consideration and class. It was a crass money grab all the way around.
It seems that you, and others on this board, are hunky dory with being dropped like a hot potato when a new hotter dude comes along, and then after being dumped, having your girlfriend come back and say "can't we just be friends, and pretend it never happened?" In other words, "can't I have my cake and eat it too"? Answer? No, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You made your decision, burned the bridge - now deal with it. Have a nice life - take a hike. It was you, not me, that decided to leave, and blow up a 100 year old relationship. No sympathy whatsoever.
And if the shoe was on the other foot? I would not blame hole or the fuskies for feeling the same way. The consequence here that you seem to desire is that our university do something that harms our athletic department because you're made about the big evil machine. Nobody can even give a reason why it would be good for OSU, athletically or academically, to cease playing games against Oregon aside from "they might beat us in football most of the time", when they already do. It's self serving, self destructive nonsense.
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Post by ee1990 on Jul 7, 2024 0:42:52 GMT -8
Assuming all of this is true, they still made the decision, just like UW, to abandon their partner university in the same state, same conference. I also did not see hole protesting the traitorous ten trying to take the money and run. If your point is they have less accountability for the blowup than UW - okay, but they are still culpable. Kinda like two bank robbers, one in the bank, and one in the getaway car. The getaway driver is still going to jail.
I like you, would like to roll back the hands of time to when the conference was intact, and we had our 108 year rivalry intact. As has been said, that ship has sailed, and by all accounts, considering how the entire personality, budget, attitudes, etc of hole has changed - it ain't ever comin back.
The United States of America just celebrated its 248th birthday. The Civil War turns 130 this year. 2024 will be game 128. For more than half of the United States of America's history, there has been a Civil War. Comparing the destruction of the Pac-12 to a bank robbery is not very apt IMO. It is more like the Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Wazzu had plans to all go fishing together. The boat is rented. The gear has been purchased. But then the Big Ten invites Oregon and Washington to go on a cruise with them. Oregon and Washington could go fishing but decide to go on the cruise. And then Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah flaked out and went to a party that they were invited to. And Cal and Stanford just decided to go on a hike instead. And now Oregon State and Wazzu are stewing, because they were not invited and because Oregon and Washington went without them. Washington and Wazzu are signed to keep playing through 2028. But Oregon State is thinking about stopping to hang out with Oregon, because of..................reasons, which cannot be articulated in a way that makes any sense to me. Oregon and Washington owe us squat. If we thought that they did, we are fools IMO. Oregon State is playing Cal. Should we snub Cal, too? Do we never play any of the former members of the Pac-12 again, despite the fact that it is to our benefit? I just do not understand the end game here.There is no logic or reason to not play Oregon IMO. It is a road to disaster and ruin. Things can and will get worse down that road. lol I didn't even think of this. Where's the outrage at all the other programs? We're going to blacklist Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford, Cal from all competition? Idiocy. No, just blacklist Oregon, the one program we *should* keep playing. Insanity.
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 7, 2024 6:29:51 GMT -8
Maybe not - but they should. Actions have consequences. This isn't about whether or not OSU would have done the same thing. It is what happens when you decide to leave a long standing relationship, a conference you made pledges to, and burn a bridge on the way out the door.
In business, the timeless adage has always been do not burn a bridge when moving on to a better opportunity - it may come back to haunt you. Turning down a TV deal before giving it a chance, not being forthright about the under the table negotiations, trying to take money out of the conference on the way out the door, etc. in my opinion - was burning a bridge. They did not do it with consideration and class. It was a crass money grab all the way around.
It seems that you, and others on this board, are hunky dory with being dropped like a hot potato when a new hotter dude comes along, and then after being dumped, having your girlfriend come back and say "can't we just be friends, and pretend it never happened?" In other words, "can't I have my cake and eat it too"? Answer? No, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You made your decision, burned the bridge - now deal with it. Have a nice life - take a hike. It was you, not me, that decided to leave, and blow up a 100 year old relationship. No sympathy whatsoever.
And if the shoe was on the other foot? I would not blame hole or the fuskies for feeling the same way. The consequence here that you seem to desire is that our university do something that harms our athletic department because you're made about the big evil machine. Nobody can even give a reason why it would be good for OSU, athletically or academically, to cease playing games against Oregon aside from "they might beat us in football most of the time", when they already do. It's self serving, self destructive nonsense. A couple of things. I never said we shouldn't play Oregon because they might beat us. Second, actions taken by others to harm the athletic department have already taken place. The athletic department is diverse, serves a lot of different needs, and is paid for in many ways. Within the football fan base, the opinions on this issue vary, as the many threads on it indicate. You and others have decided we should continue the rivalry outside of conference play. Good for you. Many of us feel otherwise. I am not going to convince you, and visa versa. This topic is best discussed, IMHO, after a long hiatus from playing each other. Even Wilky, when showing examples of rivalries around the country that continued after a conference break up, many of those teams did exactly what I am suggesting.
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 7, 2024 6:41:42 GMT -8
The United States of America just celebrated its 248th birthday. The Civil War turns 130 this year. 2024 will be game 128. For more than half of the United States of America's history, there has been a Civil War. Comparing the destruction of the Pac-12 to a bank robbery is not very apt IMO. It is more like the Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Wazzu had plans to all go fishing together. The boat is rented. The gear has been purchased. But then the Big Ten invites Oregon and Washington to go on a cruise with them. Oregon and Washington could go fishing but decide to go on the cruise. And then Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah flaked out and went to a party that they were invited to. And Cal and Stanford just decided to go on a hike instead. And now Oregon State and Wazzu are stewing, because they were not invited and because Oregon and Washington went without them. Washington and Wazzu are signed to keep playing through 2028. But Oregon State is thinking about stopping to hang out with Oregon, because of..................reasons, which cannot be articulated in a way that makes any sense to me. Oregon and Washington owe us squat. If we thought that they did, we are fools IMO. Oregon State is playing Cal. Should we snub Cal, too? Do we never play any of the former members of the Pac-12 again, despite the fact that it is to our benefit? I just do not understand the end game here.There is no logic or reason to not play Oregon IMO. It is a road to disaster and ruin. Things can and will get worse down that road. lol I didn't even think of this. Where's the outrage at all the other programs? We're going to blacklist Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford, Cal from all competition? Idiocy. No, just blacklist Oregon, the one program we *should* keep playing. Insanity. Insanity is continuing to play a team, or teams, that have stabbed you in the back. Considering the many examples of lying, cheating and stealing by hole in the past 25 years or so, I find it amusing they consider themselves elite. They will always be, in my mind, the Tonya Harding/ Paris Hilton of the college football world - low class and fake - in that order.
This and other reasons are why many beaver fans single them out from the others. But, to be fair, others on the list deserve derision as well. What all of this looks like going forward? We shall see.
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Post by william44 on Jul 7, 2024 8:42:17 GMT -8
I would never play them after this year unless we have talent we had under Smith the last three years. If we are like we were when Notre Dame clobbered us I say never. No need to help them. Seems the mountain west folks are mad at us as well over comments about future. We are not in a good place.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 7, 2024 14:44:56 GMT -8
Assuming all of this is true, they still made the decision, just like UW, to abandon their partner university in the same state, same conference. I also did not see hole protesting the traitorous ten trying to take the money and run. If your point is they have less accountability for the blowup than UW - okay, but they are still culpable. Kinda like two bank robbers, one in the bank, and one in the getaway car. The getaway driver is still going to jail.
I like you, would like to roll back the hands of time to when the conference was intact, and we had our 108 year rivalry intact. As has been said, that ship has sailed, and by all accounts, considering how the entire personality, budget, attitudes, etc of hole has changed - it ain't ever comin back.
The United States of America just celebrated its 248th birthday. The Civil War turns 130 this year. 2024 will be game 128. For more than half of the United States of America's history, there has been a Civil War. Comparing the destruction of the Pac-12 to a bank robbery is not very apt IMO. It is more like the Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Wazzu had plans to all go fishing together. The boat is rented. The gear has been purchased. But then the Big Ten invites Oregon and Washington to go on a cruise with them. Oregon and Washington could go fishing but decide to go on the cruise. And then Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah flaked out and went to a party that they were invited to. And Cal and Stanford just decided to go on a hike instead. And now Oregon State and Wazzu are stewing, because they were not invited and because Oregon and Washington went without them. Washington and Wazzu are signed to keep playing through 2028. But Oregon State is thinking about stopping to hang out with Oregon, because of..................reasons, which cannot be articulated in a way that makes any sense to me. Oregon and Washington owe us squat. If we thought that they did, we are fools IMO. Oregon State is playing Cal. Should we snub Cal, too? Do we never play any of the former members of the Pac-12 again, despite the fact that it is to our benefit? I just do not understand the end game here. There is no logic or reason to not play Oregon IMO. It is a road to disaster and ruin. Things can and will get worse down that road. I can only speak for myself, but I do think some essentially feel the same. I will try to sum it up as I'm not interested in these long back and forths, or re-hashing. You may be right that holding our hand out to the holes of the world keeps us more relevant in the world that is being created......this is precisely why I am losing interest in college athletics. So while you try to convince us that we are idiots for not wanting to play hole, you fail to consider the motivation
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Post by irimi on Jul 7, 2024 15:49:51 GMT -8
I would never play them after this year unless we have talent we had under Smith the last three years. If we are like we were when Notre Dame clobbered us I say never. No need to help them. Seems the mountain west folks are mad at us as well over comments about future. We are not in a good place. I don't like this point of view, simply because it admits defeat. There are a lot of valid reasons not to want to play Hole, but being afraid of the final score should never be one. After all, they have embarrassed on the scoreboard often enough. Remember 2008, when we were playing for the Rose Bowl?
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Post by ee1990 on Jul 7, 2024 20:00:46 GMT -8
lol I didn't even think of this. Where's the outrage at all the other programs? We're going to blacklist Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Stanford, Cal from all competition? Idiocy. No, just blacklist Oregon, the one program we *should* keep playing. Insanity. Insanity is continuing to play a team, or teams, that have stabbed you in the back. Considering the many examples of lying, cheating and stealing by hole in the past 25 years or so, I find it amusing they consider themselves elite. They will always be, in my mind, the Tonya Harding/ Paris Hilton of the college football world - low class and fake - in that order.
This and other reasons are why many beaver fans single them out from the others. But, to be fair, others on the list deserve derision as well. What all of this looks like going forward? We shall see. Lying and stealing? We get it, everyone is upset, but you're just manufacturing things to be angry about. The Willie Lyles thing was like less than $200 in impermissble benefits and receiving video scouting reports without written reports. That's it, and they got drug through the mud for 2 years while the NCAA "investigated".
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 8, 2024 5:26:14 GMT -8
Insanity is continuing to play a team, or teams, that have stabbed you in the back. Considering the many examples of lying, cheating and stealing by hole in the past 25 years or so, I find it amusing they consider themselves elite. They will always be, in my mind, the Tonya Harding/ Paris Hilton of the college football world - low class and fake - in that order.
This and other reasons are why many beaver fans single them out from the others. But, to be fair, others on the list deserve derision as well. What all of this looks like going forward? We shall see. Lying and stealing? We get it, everyone is upset, but you're just manufacturing things to be angry about. The Willie Lyles thing was like less than $200 in impermissble benefits and receiving video scouting reports without written reports. That's it, and they got drug through the mud for 2 years while the NCAA "investigated". Anyone on this board who has been a fan for many years, and has been paying attention, knows that hole was willing to do just about anything to win, including cutting corners, and engaging in the shady. The Willy Lyles situation was just one of many situations that were swept under the rug over the past 25 years or so. Your response tells many of us on here all we need to know. I am not going to turn this into a rehash of all of the dirty dealings of hole. They have been underhanded and dirty - plain and simple
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Post by beaver1989 on Jul 8, 2024 6:06:54 GMT -8
My gut says "f%#* them!"
My head says "Play Ball."
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 8, 2024 7:17:03 GMT -8
Insanity is continuing to play a team, or teams, that have stabbed you in the back. Considering the many examples of lying, cheating and stealing by hole in the past 25 years or so, I find it amusing they consider themselves elite. They will always be, in my mind, the Tonya Harding/ Paris Hilton of the college football world - low class and fake - in that order.
This and other reasons are why many beaver fans single them out from the others. But, to be fair, others on the list deserve derision as well. What all of this looks like going forward? We shall see. Lying and stealing? We get it, everyone is upset, but you're just manufacturing things to be angry about. The Willie Lyles thing was like less than $200 in impermissble benefits and receiving video scouting reports without written reports. That's it, and they got drug through the mud for 2 years while the NCAA "investigated". The whole Willie Lyles thing was slimy and outside of the intent of NCAA regulations. Lyles admitted Chip Kelly personally approved a 25K salary to him, retroactively, to influence recruits. He apparently influenced the heck out of LaMichael James’ mom, influencing LaMichael and his mom to move across the Texas/Arkansas border (with him? I forget all the details) for a bit so he could graduate high school in Arkansas, which wasn’t happening in Texas due to not being able to pass the basic math requirement. It was slimy at a minimum, not to mention Kelly got a 2-3 year “show cause” NCAA expulsion out of the episode… it was not a little deal. On the whole Civi War thing, as long as we get the home game, first in every rotation because uo has proven themselves to break promises when they skipped the GOR signing, I’m ok with it… but I’d be more OK with finding another major name rivalry partner or getting a game against a rotating list of major name schools once each year.
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Post by NativeBeav on Jul 8, 2024 7:39:17 GMT -8
Lying and stealing? We get it, everyone is upset, but you're just manufacturing things to be angry about. The Willie Lyles thing was like less than $200 in impermissble benefits and receiving video scouting reports without written reports. That's it, and they got drug through the mud for 2 years while the NCAA "investigated". The whole Willie Lyles thing was slimy and outside of the intent of NCAA regulations. Lyles admitted Chip Kelly personally approved a 25K salary to him, retroactively, to influence recruits. He apparently influenced the heck out of LaMichael James’ mom, influencing LaMichael and his mom to move across the Texas/Arkansas border (with him? I forget all the details) for a bit so he could graduate high school in Arkansas, which wasn’t happening in Texas due to not being able to pass the basic math requirement. It was slimy at a minimum. On the whole Civi War thing, as long as we get the home game, first in every rotation because uo has proven themselves to break promises when they skipped the GOR signing, I’m ok with it… but I’d be more OK with finding another major name rivalry partner or getting a game against a rotating list of major name schools once each year. I liked your post before you added the last paragraph - I could get behind that idea if we can take a 5 year hiatus - for several reasons. There is still going to be further conference realignment, and I think there is going to be some disgruntled fans/ boosters after a few years of never sniffing a "natty" in the B1G, and we will have more certainty by then where we are landing long term.
With the breakup and wounds so fresh at this point, suspend for a period of time, then impose the conditions (and others?) you mentioned. And if hole isn't willing to meet those conditions - F'em. It means that they really do not value the 108 years of tradition, and have moved on. Like in marriage, if one party gives up, you are dead in the water, no matter how much you want to continue the relationship. The offending party needs to make some concessions. You are correct with the home game first in the rotation - they are not to be trusted.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jul 8, 2024 11:25:32 GMT -8
The whole Willie Lyles thing was slimy and outside of the intent of NCAA regulations. Lyles admitted Chip Kelly personally approved a 25K salary to him, retroactively, to influence recruits. He apparently influenced the heck out of LaMichael James’ mom, influencing LaMichael and his mom to move across the Texas/Arkansas border (with him? I forget all the details) for a bit so he could graduate high school in Arkansas, which wasn’t happening in Texas due to not being able to pass the basic math requirement. It was slimy at a minimum. On the whole Civi War thing, as long as we get the home game, first in every rotation because uo has proven themselves to break promises when they skipped the GOR signing, I’m ok with it… but I’d be more OK with finding another major name rivalry partner or getting a game against a rotating list of major name schools once each year. I liked your post before you added the last paragraph - I could get behind that idea if we can take a 5 year hiatus - for several reasons. There is still going to be further conference realignment, and I think there is going to be some disgruntled fans/ boosters after a few years of never sniffing a "natty" in the B1G, and we will have more certainty by then where we are landing long term.
With the breakup and wounds so fresh at this point, suspend for a period of time, then impose the conditions (and others?) you mentioned. And if hole isn't willing to meet those conditions - F'em. It means that they really do not value the 108 years of tradition, and have moved on. Like in marriage, if one party gives up, you are dead in the water, no matter how much you want to continue the relationship. The offending party needs to make some concessions. You are correct with the home game first in the rotation - they are not to be trusted.
I like this post! Couple things.... Hole does not value the rivalry. They view U dub as their real regional rival, and have for some time. Their only interest in playing us moving forward is a cupcake non conf game. I agree on the hiatus thing as well to see how the chips fall as things continue to unfold. As for the "No Natty for you".....I hate to say it, but they are building towards a run. Who knows if it will lead to a "Natty" but they have the resources, and the brand. They are positioned better than most in this crazy college football landscape. Harbaugh leaving Michigan helps their cause as well.
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