|
|
Post by rgeorge on Feb 4, 2024 12:32:58 GMT -8
Tinkle could do the honorable thing and realize he isn't up to the task and walk away or work out a settlement. I’m no Tinkle fan and would be very happy if he was gone after this year, but I don’t blame him in the least for not walking away. Have you ever walked away from nearly $9M? And what would it take in the way of a settlement for you to deem it “honorable”? I don’t know how buyouts work. Do they have to pay all right away? Stretched out over what is the life of the contract? Or something else? I could maybe see taking a little less (say $8M) and have it stretched out over 10 years. But to do that I’d have it stipulated that if I got another job that my then current salary would not impact payments from OSU as is normally the case with straight up buyouts I believe. OSU could pay a new coach $1.5M and still save money. Is that honorable enough for you? Sure it would be great if he took nothing, but I’m not going to fault him for getting what is owed him. Buyouts vary widely, but all are over time typically in biannual payments. But, there are other savings. Assistant coaches are typically on one year deals. Then you have other minor bennies... car/insurance stipends, tickets, memberships, house stipends, PERS contributions, and health and other insurance contributions, etc. Every contract is different. OSU also probably has a automatic "funding" clause in every coaches contact. It typically can be evoked when funding levels for the AD drops do to uncontrollable circumstances. If so, salaries can be contractually reduced or even eliminated if a program is. Even school districts have such clauses. It'll be interesting... |
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Feb 4, 2024 12:33:39 GMT -8
Family obligations kept me from watching yesterday's game...did I miss anything?
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Feb 4, 2024 12:58:53 GMT -8
I’m no Tinkle fan and would be very happy if he was gone after this year, but I don’t blame him in the least for not walking away. Have you ever walked away from nearly $9M? And what would it take in the way of a settlement for you to deem it “honorable”? I don’t know how buyouts work. Do they have to pay all right away? Stretched out over what is the life of the contract? Or something else? I could maybe see taking a little less (say $8M) and have it stretched out over 10 years. But to do that I’d have it stipulated that if I got another job that my then current salary would not impact payments from OSU as is normally the case with straight up buyouts I believe. OSU could pay a new coach $1.5M and still save money. Is that honorable enough for you? Sure it would be great if he took nothing, but I’m not going to fault him for getting what is owed him. Buyouts vary widely, but all are over time typically in biannual payments. But, there are other savings. Assistant coaches are typically on one year deals. Then you have other minor bennies... car/insurance stipends, tickets, memberships, house stipends, PERS contributions, and health and other insurance contributions, etc. Every contract is different. OSU also probably has a automatic "funding" clause in every coaches contact. It typically can be evoked when funding levels for the AD drops do to uncontrollable circumstances. If so, salaries can be contractually reduced or even eliminated if a program is. Even school district have such clauses. It'll be interesting... As to buyouts, I assume those are negotiated at the time of the buyout and not in the actual contract. Is the correct? If so, I could see WT taking a longer length of time for the payout than “normal” to be “honorable,” but really how much money do people expect him to leave on the table? The PERS thing is something I hadn’t even considered. I’m not sure how Oregon’s works, but in Ohio the amount of payouts is impacted by your final salary when you stop paying in (or might be average of last couple/few years). No idea if buyout payments are considered “your salary,” for PERS sake. If so, longer period of time/smaller payments could impact his retirement payments. Interesting. |
|
|
|
Post by alwaysorange on Feb 4, 2024 13:11:24 GMT -8
Family obligations kept me from watching yesterday's game...did I miss anything? You had a better time with the family. Hell a funeral would have been better at least it would finalize things. This just keeps dragging on. |
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Feb 4, 2024 13:27:29 GMT -8
Buyouts vary widely, but all are over time typically in biannual payments. But, there are other savings. Assistant coaches are typically on one year deals. Then you have other minor bennies... car/insurance stipends, tickets, memberships, house stipends, PERS contributions, and health and other insurance contributions, etc. Every contract is different. OSU also probably has a automatic "funding" clause in every coaches contact. It typically can be evoked when funding levels for the AD drops do to uncontrollable circumstances. If so, salaries can be contractually reduced or even eliminated if a program is. Even school district have such clauses. It'll be interesting... As to buyouts, I assume those are negotiated at the time of the buyout and not in the actual contract. Is the correct? If so, I could see WT taking a longer length of time for the payout than “normal” to be “honorable,” but really how much money do people expect him to leave on the table? The PERS thing is something I hadn’t even considered. I’m not sure how Oregon’s works, but in Ohio the amount of payouts is impacted by your final salary when you stop paying in (or might be average of last couple/few years). No idea if buyout payments are considered “your salary,” for PERS sake. If so, longer period of time/smaller payments could impact his retirement payments. Interesting. Every contract being different I'd assume that every aspect of possible separation is detailed. But, I also think it can be negotiated. In the current conference circumstance I'm sure it would be. In Oregon when separation occurs PERS ends at the separation date. The buyout is severance not salary. Health bennies are typically extended for some period to be negotiated. But, when you take all the perks & bennies for a HC and staff there are immediate savings. The buyout isn't a "loss" as it's owed whether coaching or not. So the AD saves on everything else almost immediately. The "loss" is the new expense of the HC & his new staff. At WCC rates for a HC and staff, depending on experience, OSU can get well below the $2.8 mil, WT's '24-25 salary, all in for a HC & staff. So while paying off WT over time the AD could be "saving" an estimated $2-3 mil in sunk costs overall depending on actual perks & benny amounts for the HC & staff. Again, do many #s are a guesstimate and have to do with actual negotiations. Also, a ton can be dependent on the financial arrangement if the HC gets a new job. Is the buyout terminated? Or, is there a salary "difference" clause? In most coaching instances a new job cancels the buyout. But... I can also tell you other universities have mitigated the salary/buyout effect by transferring a HC to fill another open role inside the AD. The new salary now lowers the buyout and a new hire is not needed. Then that position can be eliminated or rehired when the buyout is completed or a HC takes a new job. Creative bookkeeping, but it can reduce some stress on the program's budget. There's so much that can occur that outsiders will never know the entire picture even when it happens. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 4, 2024 14:58:49 GMT -8
Drunk — I know the Tinkle is the best we’ve had mantra. You suggested the donors with deep pockets should pony up more money for NIL rather than be contributing to a “help buyout Tinkle fund.” Obviously they feel increasing their donations to NIL is throwing good money after bad with Tinkle there. And I know there were injuries in that first terrible year. If I’m a big donor, I can understand that leading to a down year. But 5 wins? No, sorry. But hey it happened. You move on. Then five years later it happens again, but with no real injuries and even a worse record. I think it is perfectly understandable they have huge questions about Tinkle and wouldn’t want to increase their investment in NIL until the coaching situation is remedied. I also didn’t say NIL wasn’t an issue. I just don’t agree that it will greatly hinder the chances of bringing in a qualified, talented coach, especially at the salary we’re talking. And I would guess that if you have a group of donors who are passionate enough about the program to help fix the big problem they see impacting the program (Tinkle), they would likely increase their investment in NIL once the “problem” is fixed. As to Tim Shelton, we know NIL is an issue. But am I the only one who finds his statements about NIL a little self serving? He was here a year. Key role of an assistant is to recruit. “So, Mr Shelton, I see that you’ve only coached at a P6 school one year. Who did you recruit to OSU?” Well, nobody really but I’m still a great recruiter and ca do it at the P6 level. It was all the fault of NIL.” On Shelton, I'm disappointed he left after just one year. I think he should have stuck it out for what I assume was a 2 year contract. His comments as he left, and things that have been said about Jarod Lucas in the past, kind of imply that OSU donors don't fund basketball NIL as well as at least some of the MWC teams. I find that kind of disturbing going forward that it's likely we're funding NIL lower than MWC teams. To me, that implies that between lack of NIL, our program history, and the rebuilding project, there's no guarantee we can even expect any current MWC or similar level conference coaches to be among the talent pool considered on the next hire. The reason I suggest they start doing NIL now, especially if Tinkle isn't canned, is to lay down the baseline to attract interest from coaches that have had some success at that level. I would prefer we land a head coach from that level, the assistant coach route hasn't really paid off at OSU in a long long long time. On Tinkle, I think he's a genuinely good guy and has represented the university well, has produced lots of all-academic Pac-12 players, and has had some successes sprinkled in there. I hate that he's had 2 horrible seasons, but I can see how keeping him through those seasons might be justified if the AD doesn't have a short term mindset. Retaining him or not I think still depends on how the remainder of the season goes. I think if he only wins 12-13 games this year he's probably gone, at 14-15 wins it could go either way, but if they get into the 16+ range the AD will probably give him more time here. I do not know if there will be NIL donor money out there for even a future coach, but if donors are literally withholding NIL just out of spite for our current coach that could give pause to some applicants. I think that if the donors can't "afford" to buy out Tinkle right now, next year it'll be much easier, even if they kick in a little NIL (I'm not talking millions) to retain a few select players everyone seems to agree have good Power conference level basketball careers ahead. Right now I think we've got 2-3 I think could get offered NIL from a number of teams. IF those players flat out want to leave, more power to them, but if it's a matter of players leaving because OSU NIL isn't even in the ballpark of what they're being offered elsewhere (and it may not be all that much), that's kinda sad and kinda shows potential future coaches and recruits that OSU may not be the place to think of as a long term home. I think the AD will do whatever he thinks is best for the program and we're kind of all along for the ride. I think what Lebaneaver posted earlier about NIL being a problem going forward, is spot on, but "forward" is literally a few weeks from now. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 4, 2024 15:19:55 GMT -8
In my little diatribe I accidentally omitted one point I wanted to mention in the first paragraph - the uncertainty of what happens 3 years from now is huge. We don't even know what conference we'll be in, that's gotta be "attractive" to lots of potential coaches and recruits...not. I suspect by this time next year that could be sorted out, but until then it literally may be a bad time to be on a coaching search.
|
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 4, 2024 18:03:43 GMT -8
Family obligations kept me from watching yesterday's game...did I miss anything? You had a better time with the family. Hell a funeral would have been better at least it would finalize things. This just keeps dragging on. I was at a funeral 3-4 weeks ago. I would rather lose each game by 28 than bury my dad again. But you do you. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 4, 2024 18:07:09 GMT -8
Drunk — I know the Tinkle is the best we’ve had mantra. You suggested the donors with deep pockets should pony up more money for NIL rather than be contributing to a “help buyout Tinkle fund.” Obviously they feel increasing their donations to NIL is throwing good money after bad with Tinkle there. And I know there were injuries in that first terrible year. If I’m a big donor, I can understand that leading to a down year. But 5 wins? No, sorry. But hey it happened. You move on. Then five years later it happens again, but with no real injuries and even a worse record. I think it is perfectly understandable they have huge questions about Tinkle and wouldn’t want to increase their investment in NIL until the coaching situation is remedied. I also didn’t say NIL wasn’t an issue. I just don’t agree that it will greatly hinder the chances of bringing in a qualified, talented coach, especially at the salary we’re talking. And I would guess that if you have a group of donors who are passionate enough about the program to help fix the big problem they see impacting the program (Tinkle), they would likely increase their investment in NIL once the “problem” is fixed. As to Tim Shelton, we know NIL is an issue. But am I the only one who finds his statements about NIL a little self serving? He was here a year. Key role of an assistant is to recruit. “So, Mr Shelton, I see that you’ve only coached at a P6 school one year. Who did you recruit to OSU?” Well, nobody really but I’m still a great recruiter and ca do it at the P6 level. It was all the fault of NIL.” No real injuries in 2021-22? Alatishe and Silva each faked injuries? Some may have faked injuries........I guess. Some of the loudest on here say that they are "in the know." But Alatishe and Silva did not fake injuries. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Feb 4, 2024 19:11:12 GMT -8
Drunk — I know the Tinkle is the best we’ve had mantra. You suggested the donors with deep pockets should pony up more money for NIL rather than be contributing to a “help buyout Tinkle fund.” Obviously they feel increasing their donations to NIL is throwing good money after bad with Tinkle there. And I know there were injuries in that first terrible year. If I’m a big donor, I can understand that leading to a down year. But 5 wins? No, sorry. But hey it happened. You move on. Then five years later it happens again, but with no real injuries and even a worse record. I think it is perfectly understandable they have huge questions about Tinkle and wouldn’t want to increase their investment in NIL until the coaching situation is remedied. I also didn’t say NIL wasn’t an issue. I just don’t agree that it will greatly hinder the chances of bringing in a qualified, talented coach, especially at the salary we’re talking. And I would guess that if you have a group of donors who are passionate enough about the program to help fix the big problem they see impacting the program (Tinkle), they would likely increase their investment in NIL once the “problem” is fixed. As to Tim Shelton, we know NIL is an issue. But am I the only one who finds his statements about NIL a little self serving? He was here a year. Key role of an assistant is to recruit. “So, Mr Shelton, I see that you’ve only coached at a P6 school one year. Who did you recruit to OSU?” Well, nobody really but I’m still a great recruiter and ca do it at the P6 level. It was all the fault of NIL.” No real injuries in 2021-22? Alatishe and Silva each faked injuries? Some may have faked injuries........I guess. Some of the loudest on here say that they are "in the know." But Alatishe and Silva did not fake injuries. 3 wins. Let me repeat that. 3 wins. So you’re going to put out all the blame for the worst season in Beavers’ history on those injuries? That you are more than happy to seemingly give WT so much credit for any successful seasons but none of the blame for bad — sorry, I mean historically terrible — seasons is just mind numbing to me. People act like no qualified candidates will take the job. I’m not sure there is a better coaching job in America than one where fans will explain away 2 of the worst 3 seasons in a program’s history without putting any blame on the coach. You’re probably right, no talented coaches would take that unless you paid them $1.5M or $2M per year. Oh wait. |
|
|
|
Post by speakthetruth on Feb 4, 2024 19:20:40 GMT -8
Thank you beaverinohio I don't understand why some want to Cherrypick a coaches record. Some might as well say every year tinkle coached at oregon state he went to the elite 8 if you don't count the other 9.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Feb 4, 2024 19:59:49 GMT -8
Thank you beaverinohio I don't understand why some want to Cherrypick a coaches record. Some might as well say every year tinkle coached at oregon state he went to the elite 8 if you don't count the other 9. But, but... it's true! And, with one more win this season the last three can total the E8 season! Exciting..  |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 4, 2024 21:09:20 GMT -8
No real injuries in 2021-22? Alatishe and Silva each faked injuries? Some may have faked injuries........I guess. Some of the loudest on here say that they are "in the know." But Alatishe and Silva did not fake injuries. 3 wins. Let me repeat that. 3 wins. So you’re going to put out all the blame for the worst season in Beavers’ history on those injuries? That you are more than happy to seemingly give WT so much credit for any successful seasons but none of the blame for bad — sorry, I mean historically terrible — seasons is just mind numbing to me. People act like no qualified candidates will take the job. I’m not sure there is a better coaching job in America than one where fans will explain away 2 of the worst 3 seasons in a program’s history without putting any blame on the coach. You’re probably right, no talented coaches would take that unless you paid them $1.5M or $2M per year. Oh wait. Two of the three worst seasons but also the two best in the past 30 years, as well. Looking at each season, I see more good than bad. I cannot say that any other mythical coach can provide us with that. I see no reason to squander millions of dollars to chase after a mythical coach out there, who probably will not be better than Tinkle anyway. And, further, I continue to be stupefied by no talk of the future in the West Coast Conference and how that dynamic will be fundamentally different than playing in the Pac-12. And that is all to say that I am so concerned about Oregon State's basketball future that I am very hesitant to pay millions to tear things down to studs, when next season is going to look absolutely nothing like the present season. We'll see, I suppose. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 4, 2024 21:12:08 GMT -8
Thank you beaverinohio I don't understand why some want to Cherrypick a coaches record. Some might as well say every year tinkle coached at oregon state he went to the elite 8 if you don't count the other 9. But, but... it's true! And, with one more win this season the last three can total the E8 season! Exciting.. The last 60 seasons added together don't total the E8 season. It is once in anyone's lifetime. No team had ever done anything like what Oregon State did. No team at Oregon State. No team at any other school. Re-freaking-diculous. |
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Feb 4, 2024 22:44:03 GMT -8
But, but... it's true! And, with one more win this season the last three can total the E8 season! Exciting.. The last 60 seasons added together don't total the E8 season. It is once in anyone's lifetime. No team had ever done anything like what Oregon State did. No team at Oregon State. No team at any other school. Re-freaking-diculous. Wait... what? No team... at any school? REALLY?? Lol How about 8 teams make the E8 EVERY YEAR! Win a conference tourney, then E8? Probably the same... without looking I know Texas won 7 in a row last year... last league game, 3 in B12 tourney, 3 to get to E8. Teams win their conference tourney and go to the E8 all the time! And, without having the "Covid effect" or a team suspended from the conference tourney to effect that. Oh... and Mizzou made the E8 as a 12 seed too... beating the exact same seeds. Heck, St. Peters made the E8 as #15. That in fact is once in a life time... for now. E8 was special. Truly. But, what WT's program has done that no other has... ever... E8 to 3-28 the very next season. Again once in a lifetime. "Re-freaking-diculous" is right. |
|
