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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 26, 2024 11:53:03 GMT -8
 You typically take things as whatever you want... but I'm sure you can do your own research and see who did not like the extension. I’m satisfied with your answer. No further questions. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 26, 2024 12:23:05 GMT -8
It was "known" what we would be paying our head men's basketball coach, to budget accordingly. It's a great help to any business to be able to chart expenses for the foreseeable future. Had they known about the subsequent demise of the Pac-12 in April 2021, maybe they would have taken a different path. Not sure such a long extension was merited. But after going 18-13, 18-13 and 20-13 with an E8 appearance from 2019-21, one could have assumed with some degree of confidence we were finally on the right track. Easy to look back and question that extension now, hindsight is always 20/20. Seem to missing some other seasons in there. Plus there was more to evaluate than wins... NC schedules were weak... recruiting weak... hence depth weak... keeping the better recruits weak. All of this before a portal or NIL. The extension was not only too long, but too much of an increase. A simple one year added and raise was warranted. But, off course the irony is that one of the "job" excuses is the financial commitment to the program. Yet look at the $ handed out for this coaching job!? NC schedules were weak? Oregon State had the 146th-most difficult NC schedule in 2018-19, eighth-most difficult in the Pac-12, a harder schedule than Colorado, USC, Utah, or Wazzu. And did Colorado get punished for finishing behind Oregon State in the Pac-12 regular season and playing such a soft NC schedule? No, they got to host two straight games in the NIT, only bowing out to the NIT's eventual-champion, Texas, in Austin in the NIT's Elite Eight. And what did Oregon State get for doing better in the Pac-12 than Colorado and playing a more-difficult non-conference slate? They got bubkis, nada. Skunked. San Diego, who did worse in a worse conference, played a softer non-conference slate, and finished 10 spots behind Oregon State in the NET got in over the Beavs. Freaking ridiculous. Galling. Anyone talking about 2018-19 Oregon State without saying that the Beavs got royally screwed is either (1) not a fan, (2) stupid, (3) delusional, or (4) has a a not-so-hidden agenda that they are trying to pass off without knowing what in the hell they are talking about. Oregon State clearly should have gotten into the NIT in 2019 but was unfairly excluded. Then, the Beavs had a NET of 71 the following season with a surefire NIT resume. And then COVID-19. Oregon State finished 2021 with a NC SOS of 70, third-highest in the Pac-12 behind USC and UCLA. No again. You cite other reasons why WT should not have received a three-year extension. I am not going to dig into that. I disagree that NC schedules were an invalid reason to not extend WT in 2021. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 26, 2024 12:45:58 GMT -8
Seem to missing some other seasons in there. Plus there was more to evaluate than wins... NC schedules were weak... recruiting weak... hence depth weak... keeping the better recruits weak. All of this before a portal or NIL. The extension was not only too long, but too much of an increase. A simple one year added and raise was warranted. But, off course the irony is that one of the "job" excuses is the financial commitment to the program. Yet look at the $ handed out for this coaching job!? NC schedules were weak? Oregon State had the 146th-most difficult NC schedule in 2018-19, eighth-most difficult in the Pac-12, a harder schedule than Colorado, USC, Utah, or Wazzu. And did Colorado get punished for finishing behind Oregon State in the Pac-12 regular season and playing such a soft NC schedule? No, they got to host two straight games in the NIT, only bowing out to the NIT's eventual-champion, Texas, in Austin in the NIT's Elite Eight. And what did Oregon State get for doing better in the Pac-12 than Colorado and playing a more-difficult non-conference slate? They got bubkis, nada. Skunked. San Diego, who did worse in a worse conference, played a softer non-conference slate, and finished 10 spots behind Oregon State in the NET got in over the Beavs. Freaking ridiculous. Galling. Anyone talking about 2018-19 Oregon State without saying that the Beavs got royally screwed is either (1) not a fan, (2) stupid, (3) delusional, or (4) has a a not-so-hidden agenda that they are trying to pass off without knowing what in the hell they are talking about. Oregon State clearly should have gotten into the NIT in 2019 but was unfairly excluded. Then, the Beavs had a NET of 71 the following season with a surefire NIT resume. And then COVID-19. Oregon State finished 2021 with a NC SOS of 70, third-highest in the Pac-12 behind USC and UCLA. No again. You cite other reasons why WT should not have received a three-year extension. I am not going to dig into that. I disagree that NC schedules were an invalid reason to not extend WT in 2021.  Is absolutely correct!  The guy with the largest confirmation bias on this site. OSU has NEVER been screwed out of any post season other than in your mind. When I get the time I'll repost the actual and complete NC ratings from WT's tenure. At one time OSU averaged in the 220+ range and was 8th or worse in the Pac12 in every season... I believe the low was 336 in 2018, followed by a 260 in 2019. Both near or at the bottom of the Pac12. The final NET in 2021 was due the Pac12/E8 run not the NC rank. The 2021 NC SOS was 278, 9th in the Pac12. You seem to have a habit of making up statistical connections. NET was never mentioned, and yet you toss it in along with gibberish from multiple seasons. Oh, and your list of reasons/accusations exemplifies you lack of conversational ability. You pick and chose select data, often not even part of a discussion, and in many cases historical nonsense to make absolutely no point and have zero bearing on the future. Except in your mind.  FWIW... so far in '24, NC rating is 215, #9 in the conference. But would be lower if the NCAA could actually "count" teams like Linfield as a "win" for ranking purposes. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 26, 2024 13:02:41 GMT -8
NC schedules were weak? Oregon State had the 146th-most difficult NC schedule in 2018-19, eighth-most difficult in the Pac-12, a harder schedule than Colorado, USC, Utah, or Wazzu. And did Colorado get punished for finishing behind Oregon State in the Pac-12 regular season and playing such a soft NC schedule? No, they got to host two straight games in the NIT, only bowing out to the NIT's eventual-champion, Texas, in Austin in the NIT's Elite Eight. And what did Oregon State get for doing better in the Pac-12 than Colorado and playing a more-difficult non-conference slate? They got bubkis, nada. Skunked. San Diego, who did worse in a worse conference, played a softer non-conference slate, and finished 10 spots behind Oregon State in the NET got in over the Beavs. Freaking ridiculous. Galling. Anyone talking about 2018-19 Oregon State without saying that the Beavs got royally screwed is either (1) not a fan, (2) stupid, (3) delusional, or (4) has a a not-so-hidden agenda that they are trying to pass off without knowing what in the hell they are talking about. Oregon State clearly should have gotten into the NIT in 2019 but was unfairly excluded. Then, the Beavs had a NET of 71 the following season with a surefire NIT resume. And then COVID-19. Oregon State finished 2021 with a NC SOS of 70, third-highest in the Pac-12 behind USC and UCLA. No again. You cite other reasons why WT should not have received a three-year extension. I am not going to dig into that. I disagree that NC schedules were an invalid reason to not extend WT in 2021. Is absolutely correct! The guy with the largest confirmation bias on this site. OSU has NEVER been screwed out of any post season other than in your mind. When I get the time I'll repost the actual and complete NC ratings from WT's tenure. At one time OSU averaged in the 220+ range and was 8th or worse in the Pac12 in every season... I believe the low was 336 in 2018, followed by a 260 in 2019. Both near or at the bottom of the Pac12. The final NET in 2021 was due the Pac12/E8 run not the NC rank. The 2021 NC SOS was 278, 9th in the Pac12. You seem to have a habit of making up statistical connections. NET was never mentioned, and yet you toss it in along with gibberish from multiple seasons. Oh, and your list of reasons/accusations exemplifies you lack of conversational ability. You pick and chose select data, often not even part of a discussion, and in many cases historical nonsense to make absolutely no point. Except in your mind. Lol!!!!!!!!!!!! Find 2019. I took it straight from the NCAA's website. 146. Look if you would like. The problem with your final 2021 NET analysis is twofold. First it ignores hindsight bias altogether. If you are looking at how good of a coach Wayne Tinkle was at the end of 2021, why in the world would the final NET SOS not be a better analysis of Wayne Tinkle's abilities than a SOS from almost 3 1/2 weeks earlier? I.e. why wouldn't it be better to use all of the data, as opposed to excluding most of it? That seems very selective. The second problem is that it ignores the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic. Oregon State could only schedule five non-conference games, as opposed to the normal 12. And then Oregon State had to switch out a game in Corvallis against Colorado State (NET 63) for a game with California (NET 134). Ignoring the rest for time. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 26, 2024 14:08:25 GMT -8
I think a lot of people thought the 2018-19 team would get an NIT bid. But royally screwed because Colorado got in and we didn’t? Hmmm.
Beavers finished regular season with 18-12 (10-8) record, while CO was 19-11 (10-8). Beavers went 5-5 in last 10 games of regular season and 2-4 in last 6 games. Colorado went 8-2 in last 10 games with both of the losses coming in last 6 games. Colorado won 2 games in Pac 12 tournament while Beavers lost their only game — and it was to Colorado by 15 I think. Beavers did beat Colorado during regular season. I believe the NCAA selection committee has stopped officially giving added weight to last 10 games (not sure when that started), but I have to believe it still holds some weight when trying to separate two close teams. But NIT doesn’t necessarily have to play by same rules since I don’t believe it is officially aligned with NCAA. So I don’t think it is that hard to make a case for Buffs over Beavers. Now that’s not to say Beavers didn’t deserve an invite too. Don’t really know who the last few in to NIT were.
I do have a question for you or anyone else who might know. How exactly is SOS determined? It seems like different sources (Kenpom, NET. Torvik. Warren Nolan) have different ways of measuring it since the rankings don’t always jive. It can’t be as simple as cumulative record of your opponents because all wins aren’t “equal.” And does any source factor in results to the equation? I mean if you’re playing a couple of teams that raise your SOS ranking, but you’re losing by 25 to each of those teams is SOS really a helpful metric? And not talking about Beavs there, just in general. Though last time I can remember Beavers beating a P6 school during noncon portion of schedule was Iowa State like 6 years ago. Could be wrong on that.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 26, 2024 14:45:17 GMT -8
I think a lot of people thought the 2018-19 team would get an NIT bid. But royally screwed because Colorado got in and we didn’t? Hmmm. Beavers finished regular season with 18-12 (10-8) record, while CO was 19-11 (10-8). Beavers went 5-5 in last 10 games of regular season and 2-4 in last 6 games. Colorado went 8-2 in last 10 games with both of the losses coming in last 6 games. Colorado won 2 games in Pac 12 tournament while Beavers lost their only game — and it was to Colorado by 15 I think. Beavers did beat Colorado during regular season. I believe the NCAA selection committee has stopped officially giving added weight to last 10 games (not sure when that started), but I have to believe it still holds some weight when trying to separate two close teams. But NIT doesn’t necessarily have to play by same rules since I don’t believe it is officially aligned with NCAA. So I don’t think it is that hard to make a case for Buffs over Beavers. Now that’s not to say Beavers didn’t deserve an invite too. Don’t really know who the last few in to NIT were. I do have a question for you or anyone else who might know. How exactly is SOS determined? It seems like different sources (Kenpom, NET. Torvik. Warren Nolan) have different ways of measuring it since the rankings don’t always jive. It can’t be as simple as cumulative record of your opponents because all wins aren’t “equal.” And does any source factor in results to the equation? I mean if you’re playing a couple of teams that raise your SOS ranking, but you’re losing by 25 to each of those teams is SOS really a helpful metric? And not talking about Beavs there, just in general. Though last time I can remember Beavers beating a P6 school during noncon portion of schedule was Iowa State like 6 years ago. Could be wrong on that. Last 10/12 games was abolished in 2008-09 and is only basically supposed to be the final determining factor if two teams' resumes are absolutely tied. The NIT was already aligned with the NCAA in 2008-09, so the same rules that apply to the Tournament writ large also are supposed to be applied to the NIT. The last three in the 2019 NIT were San Diego, Toledo, and Wichita State. San Diego, to me, sticks out like a sore thumb as completely undeserving, when you compare them to Oregon State's resume. Oregon State's Q1 wins, two. San Diego's Q1 wins, 1. Q2. Oregon State 4 and San Diego 4. Q3. Oregon State 5 and San Diego 3. The Beavs were a perfect 7-0 against Q4. San Diego went 11-1. We can deep dive that more. But ridiculous that San Diego got in over Oregon State. Absolutely ridiculous. Probably aren't counting the home win over Cal on November 25, 2020, which counted as a non-conference game? If you don't count Cal, Iowa State was the last non-conference win over a non-Pac-12 P6 team on November 9, 2019. And that is really the only win since the wins over Mississippi State and DePaul back in 2014. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 26, 2024 16:40:16 GMT -8
The problem with the 2019 NIT was five Big East teams getting in, they went 2-3 in the first round and 2-5 overall. Only one Pac-12 team made it and CU went 2-1. The Big East also got three teams into the NCAAs and went 1-3, including a loss to Wofford. The Big East was horribly overrated that season.
Our OOC schedules have not changed much over the past 25-30 years. If Tinkle took advantage of it in 2019, 2020 and 2021, then he did something most of his predecessors were not able to do.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 26, 2024 17:20:23 GMT -8
The problem with the 2019 NIT was five Big East teams getting in, they went 2-3 in the first round and 2-5 overall. Only one Pac-12 team made it and CU went 2-1. The Big East also got three teams into the NCAAs and went 1-3, including a loss to Wofford. The Big East was horribly overrated that season. Our OOC schedules have not changed much over the past 25-30 years. If Tinkle took advantage of it in 2019, 2020 and 2021, then he did something most of his predecessors were not able to do. The Big East got four teams into the Tourney in 2019 and went 1-4. I was in Vegas watching Arizona State take St. John's behind a woodshed. A St. John's fan was sitting there proudly showing everyone his $200 Arizona State ticket, telling everyone that he could not believe that St. John's got in. The Big East was stupid overrated in 2019. Nova edged St. Mary's by four in Hartford and then lost to Purdue by 26 in Hartford. Ridiculous. And that's your conference champion. Marquette was given a five-seed and lost to Murray State by 19. Murray State then lost to Florida State by 28. Seton Hall lost to Wofford by 16. And there's your four Big East teams. Trash all. Xavier finished fourth and beat Toledo by 14 in Cincinnati. Xavier gave Texas the Longhorns' biggest scare, losing by two in overtime. Not terrible. Creighton finished fifth in the Big East. Creighton beat Loyola-Chicago and Memphis respectably in Omaha before dropping the game in Fort Worth to TCU by 13. Creighton and Xavier were worthy inclusions in the NIT. Georgetown was sixth in the Big East and given a three-seed and promptly lost by three to Harvard in DC. Providence was eighth in the Big East and given a four-seed and promptly lost to Arkansas by 12 in Providence. And, probably most galling, Butler finished ninth in the 10-team Big East. Butler was 7-11 in the Big East. Butler was 9-4 in nonconference play. 16-16 overall. Yet, for some stupid reason, Butler got in, and Oregon State was left out. The ninth-best team in the Big East was laughably given a spot over the Pac-12's fourth-best team. Ridiculous! Outrageous! Nebraska beat Butler by four in Lincoln and then lost by 16 to TCU in Fort Worth, the Frogs' biggest win in the NIT. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 27, 2024 11:43:54 GMT -8
The problem with the 2019 NIT was five Big East teams getting in, they went 2-3 in the first round and 2-5 overall. Only one Pac-12 team made it and CU went 2-1. The Big East also got three teams into the NCAAs and went 1-3, including a loss to Wofford. The Big East was horribly overrated that season. Our OOC schedules have not changed much over the past 25-30 years. If Tinkle took advantage of it in 2019, 2020 and 2021, then he did something most of his predecessors were not able to do. The Big East got four teams into the Tourney in 2019 and went 1-4. I was in Vegas watching Arizona State take St. John's behind a woodshed. A St. John's fan was sitting there proudly showing everyone his $200 Arizona State ticket, telling everyone that he could not believe that St. John's got in. The Big East was stupid overrated in 2019. Nova edged St. Mary's by four in Hartford and then lost to Purdue by 26 in Hartford. Ridiculous. And that's your conference champion. Marquette was given a five-seed and lost to Murray State by 19. Murray State then lost to Florida State by 28. Seton Hall lost to Wofford by 16. And there's your four Big East teams. Trash all. Xavier finished fourth and beat Toledo by 14 in Cincinnati. Xavier gave Texas the Longhorns' biggest scare, losing by two in overtime. Not terrible. Creighton finished fifth in the Big East. Creighton beat Loyola-Chicago and Memphis respectably in Omaha before dropping the game in Fort Worth to TCU by 13. Creighton and Xavier were worthy inclusions in the NIT. Georgetown was sixth in the Big East and given a three-seed and promptly lost by three to Harvard in DC. Providence was eighth in the Big East and given a four-seed and promptly lost to Arkansas by 12 in Providence. And, probably most galling, Butler finished ninth in the 10-team Big East. Butler was 7-11 in the Big East. Butler was 9-4 in nonconference play. 16-16 overall. Yet, for some stupid reason, Butler got in, and Oregon State was left out. The ninth-best team in the Big East was laughably given a spot over the Pac-12's fourth-best team. Ridiculous! Outrageous! Nebraska beat Butler by four in Lincoln and then lost by 16 to TCU in Fort Worth, the Frogs' biggest win in the NIT. I missed St. John's. As I pointed out, and you expounded upon, was the Big East sucked that year and got way more postseason berths than it deserved. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 27, 2024 16:15:44 GMT -8
The problem with the 2019 NIT was five Big East teams getting in, they went 2-3 in the first round and 2-5 overall. Only one Pac-12 team made it and CU went 2-1. The Big East also got three teams into the NCAAs and went 1-3, including a loss to Wofford. The Big East was horribly overrated that season. Our OOC schedules have not changed much over the past 25-30 years. If Tinkle took advantage of it in 2019, 2020 and 2021, then he did something most of his predecessors were not able to do. The Big East got four teams into the Tourney in 2019 and went 1-4. I was in Vegas watching Arizona State take St. John's behind a woodshed. A St. John's fan was sitting there proudly showing everyone his $200 Arizona State ticket, telling everyone that he could not believe that St. John's got in. The Big East was stupid overrated in 2019. Nova edged St. Mary's by four in Hartford and then lost to Purdue by 26 in Hartford. Ridiculous. And that's your conference champion. Marquette was given a five-seed and lost to Murray State by 19. Murray State then lost to Florida State by 28. Seton Hall lost to Wofford by 16. And there's your four Big East teams. Trash all. Xavier finished fourth and beat Toledo by 14 in Cincinnati. Xavier gave Texas the Longhorns' biggest scare, losing by two in overtime. Not terrible. Creighton finished fifth in the Big East. Creighton beat Loyola-Chicago and Memphis respectably in Omaha before dropping the game in Fort Worth to TCU by 13. Creighton and Xavier were worthy inclusions in the NIT. Georgetown was sixth in the Big East and given a three-seed and promptly lost by three to Harvard in DC. Providence was eighth in the Big East and given a four-seed and promptly lost to Arkansas by 12 in Providence. And, probably most galling, Butler finished ninth in the 10-team Big East. Butler was 7-11 in the Big East. Butler was 9-4 in nonconference play. 16-16 overall. Yet, for some stupid reason, Butler got in, and Oregon State was left out. The ninth-best team in the Big East was laughably given a spot over the Pac-12's fourth-best team. Ridiculous! Outrageous! Nebraska beat Butler by four in Lincoln and then lost by 16 to TCU in Fort Worth, the Frogs' biggest win in the NIT. So let me get this straight. Missing the NIT five years ago is something to harbor a grudge over? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 27, 2024 16:27:43 GMT -8
The Big East got four teams into the Tourney in 2019 and went 1-4. I was in Vegas watching Arizona State take St. John's behind a woodshed. A St. John's fan was sitting there proudly showing everyone his $200 Arizona State ticket, telling everyone that he could not believe that St. John's got in. The Big East was stupid overrated in 2019. Nova edged St. Mary's by four in Hartford and then lost to Purdue by 26 in Hartford. Ridiculous. And that's your conference champion. Marquette was given a five-seed and lost to Murray State by 19. Murray State then lost to Florida State by 28. Seton Hall lost to Wofford by 16. And there's your four Big East teams. Trash all. Xavier finished fourth and beat Toledo by 14 in Cincinnati. Xavier gave Texas the Longhorns' biggest scare, losing by two in overtime. Not terrible. Creighton finished fifth in the Big East. Creighton beat Loyola-Chicago and Memphis respectably in Omaha before dropping the game in Fort Worth to TCU by 13. Creighton and Xavier were worthy inclusions in the NIT. Georgetown was sixth in the Big East and given a three-seed and promptly lost by three to Harvard in DC. Providence was eighth in the Big East and given a four-seed and promptly lost to Arkansas by 12 in Providence. And, probably most galling, Butler finished ninth in the 10-team Big East. Butler was 7-11 in the Big East. Butler was 9-4 in nonconference play. 16-16 overall. Yet, for some stupid reason, Butler got in, and Oregon State was left out. The ninth-best team in the Big East was laughably given a spot over the Pac-12's fourth-best team. Ridiculous! Outrageous! Nebraska beat Butler by four in Lincoln and then lost by 16 to TCU in Fort Worth, the Frogs' biggest win in the NIT. So let me get this straight. Missing the NIT five years ago is something to harbor a grudge over? It is, was, and still is BS. I really wanted to see the Beavs in the NIT. And 2019-20 was an even better team before COVID-19 wiped everything out. But the teams get crapped on, because no postseason. |
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 27, 2024 17:04:43 GMT -8
In my humble opinion, it’s the Big Dance or bust. CBI, NIT, etc can go pound sand.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Jan 27, 2024 17:11:58 GMT -8
So let me get this straight. Missing the NIT five years ago is something to harbor a grudge over? It is, was, and still is BS. I really wanted to see the Beavs in the NIT. And 2019-20 was an even better team before COVID-19 wiped everything out. But the teams get crapped on, because no postseason. It really is unfortunate for the 19-20 team that the season was cut short like that. Beavs were on a 3 or 4 game win streak and about to play oregon in the Pac-12 tournament. I still believe with how we were playing at the end of that season we win that game and were NIT at worst, and had a really good shot at NCAAs. We'll never know though, and again just gets chalked up as a "no postseason" year even though it was probably WT's 3rd best year (unless you argue year 1 was better given the circumstances, in which case I could see that argument). |
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 27, 2024 17:13:22 GMT -8
In my humble opinion, it’s the Big Dance or bust. CBI, NIT, etc can go pound sand. Of course some ignore their own hindsight issues and facts that the Buffs were the significantly better team at the end of the season when, ya know, picks are made! |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 27, 2024 17:15:18 GMT -8
In my humble opinion, it’s the Big Dance or bust. CBI, NIT, etc can go pound sand. Of course some ignore their own hindsight issues and facts that the Buffs were the significantly better team at the end of the season when, ya know, picks are made! No one is arguing about Colorado. Argue about how great the Big East or WCC was that year. That is the conversation. Oregon State got screwed. |
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