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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 17, 2023 15:03:51 GMT -8
Or unless some schools give notice now that they will be leaving in two years, which would lower the buyout to $0 in two years. Other than apparently there is no $0 dollar option in the bylaws. I thought there was until I read the bylaws and a couple articles. You may be more knowledgeable than me, but I thought that the buyouts were pegged to the media deal. If the media deal falls to $0, which is currently set to happen between in the Summer of 2026, then the buyout would also be $0, regardless of the notice provided. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 17, 2023 15:13:15 GMT -8
Other than apparently there is no $0 dollar option in the bylaws. I thought there was until I read the bylaws and a couple articles. You may be more knowledgeable than me, but I thought that the buyouts were pegged to the media deal. If the media deal falls to $0, which is currently set to happen between in the Summer of 2026, then the buyout would also be $0, regardless of the notice provided. The MWC has a competent commissioner so it will have some sort of new deal in place for post 2025-26 long before the current one expires. So the departure penalty won't go away. |
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"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
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Post by ftd on Nov 17, 2023 15:17:47 GMT -8
You may be more knowledgeable than me, but I thought that the buyouts were pegged to the media deal. If the media deal falls to $0, which is currently set to happen between in the Summer of 2026, then the buyout would also be $0, regardless of the notice provided. The MWC has a competent commissioner so it will have some sort of new deal in place for post 2025-26 long before the current one expires. So the departure penalty won't go away. Unless they 'give notice' before the new deal is made  |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 17, 2023 15:21:05 GMT -8
Other than apparently there is no $0 dollar option in the bylaws. I thought there was until I read the bylaws and a couple articles. You may be more knowledgeable than me, but I thought that the buyouts were pegged to the media deal. If the media deal falls to $0, which is currently set to happen between in the Summer of 2026, then the buyout would also be $0, regardless of the notice provided. That article on the MWC buyout bylaws I linked in an earlier response said the bylaws specifically were written to not be tied to the media rights deal so there would not be a threat of teams leaving for free. Whether they wrote those bylaws clearly and unambiguously is another story, if teams wanted to try to use a UW type defense. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 17, 2023 15:28:54 GMT -8
You may be more knowledgeable than me, but I thought that the buyouts were pegged to the media deal. If the media deal falls to $0, which is currently set to happen between in the Summer of 2026, then the buyout would also be $0, regardless of the notice provided. That article on the MWC buyout bylaws I linked in an earlier response said the bylaws specifically were written to not be tied to the media rights deal so there would not be a threat of teams leaving for free. Whether they wrote those bylaws clearly and unambiguously is another story, if teams wanted to try to use a UW type defense. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, which delved into this because San Diego State left the Mountain West and then didn't, the exit fee, if more than a year's notice is given is three times the media deal's annual payout. The media payout was $6.5 million. So, the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated the exit fee as $16.5 million. And the exit fee for less than a year's notice is double that, which the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated as $33 million. Those are the numbers that are thrown around even today, but they are all pegged to the media payout. It is my understanding that, if the media payout goes to zero, so does the buyout. If there is something that says otherwise, I would like to see it, just so I feel like I know what I am talking about. |
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Post by p8nted on Nov 17, 2023 15:31:27 GMT -8
That article on the MWC buyout bylaws I linked in an earlier response said the bylaws specifically were written to not be tied to the media rights deal so there would not be a threat of teams leaving for free. Whether they wrote those bylaws clearly and unambiguously is another story, if teams wanted to try to use a UW type defense. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, which delved into this because San Diego State left the Mountain West and then didn't, the exit fee, if more than a year's notice is given is three times the media deal's annual payout. The media payout was $6.5 million. So, the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated the exit fee as $16.5 million. And the exit fee for less than a year's notice is double that, which the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated as $33 million. Those are the numbers that are thrown around even today, but they are all pegged to the media payout. It is my understanding that, if the media payout goes to zero, so does the buyout. If there is something that says otherwise, I would like to see it, just so I feel like I know what I am talking about. You cannot assume MWC will not have a new media deal in place well before 2026. No competent commissioner, and presidents, would let that happen. No matter what, the remaining teams will have negotiated a new media deal and be ready to move on. The buy out is Conference payout and not media payout. That includes bowls, CFP, NCAA BB, sponsorship, etc Only the PAC was that poorly led to let a TV deal go that long |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 17, 2023 15:40:47 GMT -8
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, which delved into this because San Diego State left the Mountain West and then didn't, the exit fee, if more than a year's notice is given is three times the media deal's annual payout. The media payout was $6.5 million. So, the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated the exit fee as $16.5 million. And the exit fee for less than a year's notice is double that, which the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated as $33 million. Those are the numbers that are thrown around even today, but they are all pegged to the media payout. It is my understanding that, if the media payout goes to zero, so does the buyout. If there is something that says otherwise, I would like to see it, just so I feel like I know what I am talking about. You cannot assume MWC will not have a new media deal in place well before 2026. No competent commissioner would let that happen. No matter what, the remaining teams will have negotiated a new media deal and be ready to move on. The buy out is Conference payout and not media payout. That includes bowls, CFP, NCAA BB, sponsorship, etc Only the PAC was that poorly led to let a TV deal go that long Except that the membership of the MWC has to approve the media deal. Four (Or three? I am really not sure if Hawai'i counts or not.) members can move to block the new media deal to eliminate the exit fee. If Oregon State and Wazzu have invites ready for the four best Mountain West Conference teams on the other side, then those four can block the media deal until the Summer of 2026, so that they can all get out for free. Of course, you could negotiate around that, as well. Bylaws are just a jumping off point for further negotiations. |
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Post by p8nted on Nov 17, 2023 16:07:25 GMT -8
You cannot assume MWC will not have a new media deal in place well before 2026. No competent commissioner would let that happen. No matter what, the remaining teams will have negotiated a new media deal and be ready to move on. The buy out is Conference payout and not media payout. That includes bowls, CFP, NCAA BB, sponsorship, etc Only the PAC was that poorly led to let a TV deal go that long Except that the membership of the MWC has to approve the media deal. Four (Or three? I am really not sure if Hawai'i counts or not.) members can move to block the new media deal to eliminate the exit fee. If Oregon State and Wazzu have invites ready for the four best Mountain West Conference teams on the other side, then those four can block the media deal until the Summer of 2026, so that they can all get out for free. Of course, you could negotiate around that, as well. Bylaws are just a jumping off point for further negotiations. Board members have legal responsibilities to act in good faith so they have to be careful to avoid a lawsuit. What you describe would be an easy case for the MWC to win in court. When Houston, UCF, and Cincy left the AAC they paid $18 million each in exit fees to leave early. Very similar situation. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 17, 2023 17:13:54 GMT -8
That article on the MWC buyout bylaws I linked in an earlier response said the bylaws specifically were written to not be tied to the media rights deal so there would not be a threat of teams leaving for free. Whether they wrote those bylaws clearly and unambiguously is another story, if teams wanted to try to use a UW type defense. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, which delved into this because San Diego State left the Mountain West and then didn't, the exit fee, if more than a year's notice is given is three times the media deal's annual payout. The media payout was $6.5 million. So, the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated the exit fee as $16.5 million. And the exit fee for less than a year's notice is double that, which the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated as $33 million. Those are the numbers that are thrown around even today, but they are all pegged to the media payout. It is my understanding that, if the media payout goes to zero, so does the buyout. If there is something that says otherwise, I would like to see it, just so I feel like I know what I am talking about. The Tribune article I linked earlier said the MWC could have gone the GOR route like the Pac 12 and a few other conferences, but it could lead to teams leaving for free at some point, so Thompson chose to write in high exit fees instead. Now that is kind of vague depending on how you read it. The. MWC bylaws have no mention of exit fees being tied to media contracts. Even that is kind of vague if ending exit fees each media deal is a "standard" thing. I'm not so sure how recent of a thing GOR agreements are, they could be kind of new. So I got to searching for MWC Grant of Rights agreement. That came up with a lot of message board stuff from a couple years ago with lots of comments about those are new and nobody ever would sign a GOR in that conference... still very vague. However, the Athletic just did and article 2 days ago stating the MWC has no GOR agreement with its members. "The MWC does not have a Grant of Rights and believes its exit fee bylaw extends in perpetuity, according to a league source. That means it would cost at least $17 million for a member to leave with more than one year’s notice or at least $35 million if leaving with less than one year’s notice, no matter the status of the TV deal, which runs through 2025-26." FWIW that's about all I could find. |
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Post by qbeaver on Nov 17, 2023 17:23:11 GMT -8
Fully expecting a combination of Mountain west and other schools to be on the schedule. That doesn’t mean we are merging WSU/osu with the mountain west after two years. That would be a death knell for osu athletics. In two years,the whole model could blow up again,or most likely will blow up again. Look at how much change has happened in the last two years. Does anyone see the ACC still being the same in two years? I know they have a long term deal,but nothing is set in stone anymore. I doubt very much that anything is going to "blow up" in two years. USC and UCLA are getting full Big Ten shares, they certainly are staying put. Oregon and Washington won't receive maximum value from the Big Ten for quite some time, so they're not going anywhere. The same with Cal and Stanford in the ACC. Why would they leave before they at least get several years at max value, and they are bound to the league through 2036 through the GOR they signed. And the new Big 12 schools have no reason to leave, they are full partners. The "blow up the ACC" talk from FSU and Clemson has quieted because schools realize there isn't an alternative and it would cost them tens of millions in penalties to bail. The SEC seems very happy with 16. Funny how a reverse merger with the MWC would be a "death knell" for OSU and WSU, but the MWC programs seem to be doing just fine, and have for almost 25 years now. The original MWC was essentially the old WAC, before the ill-fated expansion to 16. UTEP of the original WAC was left out. The original MWC teams had played each other for decades, in the old Border and WAC conferences. That’s why it’s called an opinion…not a fact. The television money osu would receive would be minute compared to Pac-12 money. You think we can keep our top athletes and coaches losing that kind of revenue? I don’t. I’m talking about osu competing on the national level like we are currently. Death Knell compared to what we are now. If coaching matters,do you think we can keep difference makers like Scott Rueck,Canham and Smith? I don’t. Schools like Boise st are stepping stone jobs. Nothing more. Peterson,Harsin,Koetter,Houston Nutt,Hawkins,etc. There is proof… Stanford could easily buy their way out of the ACC. They have billions in their endowment. Academics obviously matter there as much as athletics. If you think FSU,Clemson and Miami last in the ACC until 2036,you are kidding yourself. So much will change in the next two years,and yes…I follow this daily. |
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Post by irimi on Nov 17, 2023 18:07:14 GMT -8
Agree. And I'm sure all of the options have been considered at great length. Each move is calculated and carefully planned.
Joining the MWC is just the easy way forward, and it doesn't put our student athletes in a position to play against the best. So it must only be used once all other options have failed.
Nobody's advocating joining the MWC. It has a very very low media deal. So low, the MWC doesn't want us to join them. Joining and merging are 2 completely different things. We've had this conversation before. My take? See the posts on "perception." Yeah, the deets will be different, but in the eyes of everyone in the football world, merging the two is the same. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 17, 2023 18:54:13 GMT -8
I doubt very much that anything is going to "blow up" in two years. USC and UCLA are getting full Big Ten shares, they certainly are staying put. Oregon and Washington won't receive maximum value from the Big Ten for quite some time, so they're not going anywhere. The same with Cal and Stanford in the ACC. Why would they leave before they at least get several years at max value, and they are bound to the league through 2036 through the GOR they signed. And the new Big 12 schools have no reason to leave, they are full partners. The "blow up the ACC" talk from FSU and Clemson has quieted because schools realize there isn't an alternative and it would cost them tens of millions in penalties to bail. The SEC seems very happy with 16. Funny how a reverse merger with the MWC would be a "death knell" for OSU and WSU, but the MWC programs seem to be doing just fine, and have for almost 25 years now. The original MWC was essentially the old WAC, before the ill-fated expansion to 16. UTEP of the original WAC was left out. The original MWC teams had played each other for decades, in the old Border and WAC conferences. That’s why it’s called an opinion…not a fact. The television money osu would receive would be minute compared to Pac-12 money. You think we can keep our top athletes and coaches losing that kind of revenue? I don’t. I’m talking about osu competing on the national level like we are currently. Death Knell compared to what we are now. If coaching matters,do you think we can keep difference makers like Scott Rueck,Canham and Smith? I don’t. Schools like Boise st are stepping stone jobs. Nothing more. Peterson,Harsin,Koetter,Houston Nutt,Hawkins,etc. There is proof… Stanford could easily buy their way out of the ACC. They have billions in their endowment. Academics obviously matter there as much as athletics. If you think FSU,Clemson and Miami last in the ACC until 2036,you are kidding yourself. So much will change in the next two years,and yes…I follow this daily. I guess we shall see. PS: I think academics matter 10X than athletics at Stanford. They are already biting the bullet to play in the ACC, they're not going to spend millions more to back out of it. I also expect ESPN to renegotiate with the ACC and bump up the media rights to keep Clemson, Miami, North Carolina and Florida State, although why a s%#tshow program like Miami should get more money is a question I can't answer. PPS: Petersen stayed at Boise State forever. So has Leon Rice. PPPS: Once again, please, someone, show me a viable alternative that doesn't include us playing against teams in Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, or Minnesota State and AFC Richmond. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 17, 2023 21:58:16 GMT -8
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, which delved into this because San Diego State left the Mountain West and then didn't, the exit fee, if more than a year's notice is given is three times the media deal's annual payout. The media payout was $6.5 million. So, the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated the exit fee as $16.5 million. And the exit fee for less than a year's notice is double that, which the San Diego Union-Tribune calculated as $33 million. Those are the numbers that are thrown around even today, but they are all pegged to the media payout. It is my understanding that, if the media payout goes to zero, so does the buyout. If there is something that says otherwise, I would like to see it, just so I feel like I know what I am talking about. The Tribune article I linked earlier said the MWC could have gone the GOR route like the Pac 12 and a few other conferences, but it could lead to teams leaving for free at some point, so Thompson chose to write in high exit fees instead. Now that is kind of vague depending on how you read it. The. MWC bylaws have no mention of exit fees being tied to media contracts. Even that is kind of vague if ending exit fees each media deal is a "standard" thing. I'm not so sure how recent of a thing GOR agreements are, they could be kind of new. So I got to searching for MWC Grant of Rights agreement. That came up with a lot of message board stuff from a couple years ago with lots of comments about those are new and nobody ever would sign a GOR in that conference... still very vague. However, the Athletic just did and article 2 days ago stating the MWC has no GOR agreement with its members. "The MWC does not have a Grant of Rights and believes its exit fee bylaw extends in perpetuity, according to a league source. That means it would cost at least $17 million for a member to leave with more than one year’s notice or at least $35 million if leaving with less than one year’s notice, no matter the status of the TV deal, which runs through 2025-26." FWIW that's about all I could find. Alright, I tracked this down. Exit fees are tied to media contracts. But there is a one year delay built in. The universities would have to forego media payments for a year to effectively take the exit fee down to zero. You could probably play a game of chicken to try and negotiate a lower exit fee. But it is unlikely to ever really get the exit fees down to zero, because of how it is written. You could also hope for another COVID-19 situation, which also might take exit fees lower. |
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Post by four2itus on Nov 20, 2023 11:13:10 GMT -8
14 team Pac-West, here we come.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 20, 2023 11:29:21 GMT -8
The new Conference of Champions.  |
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