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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 21, 2023 8:36:28 GMT -8
Agreed! That's exactly how I saw it. And a lot of people in my section of the stadium would have also agreed. A lot of folks became anti-Riley and EXTREMELY Anti-Banker during that time (and I think ducks having so much success w/Chip didn't help matters). Midway through 2013 the wheels really fell off. Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrichUo was running all over everybody in those years, and Banker did better that just about everyone. You’ve named 1 defense that apparently did better at some point, but I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out that several of those years Banker’s D held uo to season lows or thereabouts. I’m too lazy to research it right now, but I’m pretty sure that’s the case. As far as Nebraska goes, Banker retooled their Defense and it was top 30 total defense and 33rd in scoring D in his second year (Nebraska was running a pro passing offense with an option running QB those first two years, a bunch of critical INTs cost them games). The AD forced Riley to fire Banker and hire Diaco, the D went to 100th in total defense, 115th in scoring D, and the 23 points a game Banker allowed became 36 points a game under Diaco. The offense actually improved in year 3, if they had kept Banker, it would have probably been Riley’s best Nebraska team and Nebraska would have been just fine. Banker has been a lot of people’s scapegoat over the years. I’m not so sure it was deserved. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 21, 2023 11:35:53 GMT -8
Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrichUo was running all over everybody in those years, and Banker did better that just about everyone. You’ve named 1 defense that apparently did better at some point, but I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out that several of those years Banker’s D held uo to season lows or thereabouts. I’m too lazy to research it right now, but I’m pretty sure that’s the case. As far as Nebraska goes, Banker retooled their Defense and it was top 30 total defense and 33rd in scoring D in his second year (Nebraska was running a pro passing offense with an option running QB those first two years, a bunch of critical INTs cost them games). The AD forced Riley to fire Banker and hire Diaco, the D went to 100th in total defense, 115th in scoring D, and the 23 points a game Banker allowed became 36 points a game under Diaco. The offense actually improved in year 3, if they had kept Banker, it would have probably been Riley’s best Nebraska team and Nebraska would have been just fine. Banker has been a lot of people’s scapegoat over the years. I’m not so sure it was deserved. Only those armchair types that do not know football. Mark didn't suddenly become a dumbarse, BUT his defenses were very inconsistent year to year. Take away the two year post Bray's/DE's players, it really wasn't anything to write home about. It wasn't JUST Chipper that caused him issues! Nationally...2002 the last year under Bray... OSU was (11th) in Yds (293.5)... (29th) in Pts Allowed (20.5) 2003... (7th) with (288.7)... (46th) at (23.2) 2004... (18th) with (313.3)... (51st) at (24.5) 2005... (86th) with (406.7)... (107th) at (33.2) 2006... (59th) with (333.9)... (55th) at (22.2) 2007... (8th) with (306.2)... (33rd) at (22.6) 2008... (23rd) with (312.2)... (48th) at (23.1) 2009... (46th) with (349.5)... (57th) at (25.0) 2010... (86th) with (407.9)... (64th) at (26.8) 2011... (84th) with (411.3)... (89th) at (30.8) 2012... (30th) with (354.0)... (22nd) at (20.6) 2013... (101st) with (436.6)... (91st) at (31.4) 2014... (76th_ with (406.3)... (98th) at (31.6) Post Banker... 2015... (116th) with (481.5)... (114th) at (37.0) 2016... (79th) with (429.2)... (82nd) at (30.5) 2017... (120th) with (473.1)... (123rd) at (43.0) 2018... (129th) with (536.9)... (129th) at (45.7) Smith... 2019... (108th) with (445.7)... (105th) at (32.5) 2020... (95th) with (441.4)... (93rd) at (33.3) 2021... (72nd) with (387.6)... (61st) at (25.8) 2022... (25th) with (332.8)... (16th) at (20.0) Current... (45th) with (343.7)... (37th) at (20.3) National rankings aren't as relevant to me as competition levels among the ~130 teams varies so much. Plus even in this short span the game, rules, etc have changed. But, it is easy to see that OSU's history on defense hasn't been it key to most of the successes. Some key games and plays, but overall a bit mediocre at best. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 21, 2023 21:57:16 GMT -8
Agreed! That's exactly how I saw it. And a lot of people in my section of the stadium would have also agreed. A lot of folks became anti-Riley and EXTREMELY Anti-Banker during that time (and I think ducks having so much success w/Chip didn't help matters). Midway through 2013 the wheels really fell off. Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrichChip Kelly arrived in Eugene in 2007. Oregon State had the best defense in America that year. Oregon State also won in Eugene for the only time in the past 30 seasons. Stanford averaged giving up 42 ppg against Oregon in Kelly's six seasons, only held Oregon to under 42 points twice. Oregon State held Oregon under 42 points three times. Watch what Banker did int he 2012 or 2013 Civil Wars, though. All of the different sets. Keeping Oregon's offense off-balance. It wasn't quite enough either time, but you cannot tell me that he was not doing everything that he could to put the defense in the best spot they could to succeed. Banker is a much better defensive coordinator than Oregon State had until Bray, and he is a much better defensive coordinator than the dope that replaced him at Nebraska after two (not one) years. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 21, 2023 22:05:58 GMT -8
Uo was running all over everybody in those years, and Banker did better that just about everyone. You’ve named 1 defense that apparently did better at some point, but I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out that several of those years Banker’s D held uo to season lows or thereabouts. I’m too lazy to research it right now, but I’m pretty sure that’s the case. As far as Nebraska goes, Banker retooled their Defense and it was top 30 total defense and 33rd in scoring D in his second year (Nebraska was running a pro passing offense with an option running QB those first two years, a bunch of critical INTs cost them games). The AD forced Riley to fire Banker and hire Diaco, the D went to 100th in total defense, 115th in scoring D, and the 23 points a game Banker allowed became 36 points a game under Diaco. The offense actually improved in year 3, if they had kept Banker, it would have probably been Riley’s best Nebraska team and Nebraska would have been just fine. Banker has been a lot of people’s scapegoat over the years. I’m not so sure it was deserved. Only those armchair types that do not know football. Mark didn't suddenly become a dumbarse, BUT his defenses were very inconsistent year to year. Take away the two year post Bray's/DE's players, it really wasn't anything to write home about. It wasn't JUST Chipper that caused him issues! Nationally...2002 the last year under Bray... OSU was (11th) in Yds (293.5)... (29th) in Pts Allowed (20.5) 2003... (7th) with (288.7)... (46th) at (23.2) 2004... (18th) with (313.3)... (51st) at (24.5) 2005... (86th) with (406.7)... (107th) at (33.2) 2006... (59th) with (333.9)... (55th) at (22.2) 2007... (8th) with (306.2)... (33rd) at (22.6) 2008... (23rd) with (312.2)... (48th) at (23.1) 2009... (46th) with (349.5)... (57th) at (25.0) 2010... (86th) with (407.9)... (64th) at (26.8) 2011... (84th) with (411.3)... (89th) at (30.8) 2012... (30th) with (354.0)... (22nd) at (20.6) 2013... (101st) with (436.6)... (91st) at (31.4) 2014... (76th_ with (406.3)... (98th) at (31.6) Post Banker... 2015... (116th) with (481.5)... (114th) at (37.0) 2016... (79th) with (429.2)... (82nd) at (30.5) 2017... (120th) with (473.1)... (123rd) at (43.0) 2018... (129th) with (536.9)... (129th) at (45.7) Smith... 2019... (108th) with (445.7)... (105th) at (32.5) 2020... (95th) with (441.4)... (93rd) at (33.3) 2021... (72nd) with (387.6)... (61st) at (25.8) 2022... (25th) with (332.8)... (16th) at (20.0) Current... (45th) with (343.7)... (37th) at (20.3) National rankings aren't as relevant to me as competition levels among the ~130 teams varies so much. Plus even in this short span the game, rules, etc have changed. But, it is easy to see that OSU's history on defense hasn't been it key to most of the successes. Some key games and plays, but overall a bit mediocre at best. Banker was not the caliber DC that Craig Bray was. I think that would be true of 95% of the DC’s who graced the Pac12. Bottom line, Banker had well above average performance with inarguably less talent to work with. I don’t need to argue that he deserves Hall of Fame status but he damn sure didn’t deserve to be fired wtf. I’ve never disagreed with a Dave86 post more vehemently, this is honestly kind of bizarre because I generally view Dave as incredibly reasonable. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 21, 2023 22:07:27 GMT -8
Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrichChip Kelly arrived in Eugene in 2007. Oregon State had the best defense in America that year. Oregon State also won in Eugene for the only time in the past 30 seasons. Stanford averaged giving up 42 ppg against Oregon in Kelly's six seasons, only held Oregon to under 42 points twice. Oregon State held Oregon under 42 points three times. Watch what Banker did int he 2012 or 2013 Civil Wars, though. All of the different sets. Keeping Oregon's offense off-balance. It wasn't quite enough either time, but you cannot tell me that he was not doing everything that he could to put the defense in the best spot they could to succeed. Banker is a much better defensive coordinator than Oregon State had until Bray, and he is a much better defensive coordinator than the dope that replaced him at Nebraska after two (not one) years. Banker putting Paea on the nose so that Oregon couldn’t leave him unblocked was a master stroke at the time. Oregon had no answer. It wasn’t Banker’s fault OSU didn’t get that win. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 21, 2023 22:22:01 GMT -8
What? 2007 the "best defense in America"... how? By what measure? Just leading rushing D by 4.9 yds is the best defense in America?
Pts allowed...
tOSU 12.8
OSU 22.6 (33rd nat./4th Pac10)
Passing yds allowed...
tOSU 150.2
OSU 235.5(72nd nat./5th Pac10)
Total D...
tOSU 233.0
OSU 306.2 (8th nat./2nd Pac10)
Being picky, but best in America should be a claim that's actually true. Best OSU defense has had in many moons, but not close to best in America. I mean they have up 30+ four times, 40+ twice
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Post by Dave86 on Oct 21, 2023 23:10:54 GMT -8
Only those armchair types that do not know football. Mark didn't suddenly become a dumbarse, BUT his defenses were very inconsistent year to year. Take away the two year post Bray's/DE's players, it really wasn't anything to write home about. It wasn't JUST Chipper that caused him issues! Nationally...2002 the last year under Bray... OSU was (11th) in Yds (293.5)... (29th) in Pts Allowed (20.5) 2003... (7th) with (288.7)... (46th) at (23.2) 2004... (18th) with (313.3)... (51st) at (24.5) 2005... (86th) with (406.7)... (107th) at (33.2) 2006... (59th) with (333.9)... (55th) at (22.2) 2007... (8th) with (306.2)... (33rd) at (22.6) 2008... (23rd) with (312.2)... (48th) at (23.1) 2009... (46th) with (349.5)... (57th) at (25.0) 2010... (86th) with (407.9)... (64th) at (26.8) 2011... (84th) with (411.3)... (89th) at (30.8) 2012... (30th) with (354.0)... (22nd) at (20.6) 2013... (101st) with (436.6)... (91st) at (31.4) 2014... (76th_ with (406.3)... (98th) at (31.6) Post Banker... 2015... (116th) with (481.5)... (114th) at (37.0) 2016... (79th) with (429.2)... (82nd) at (30.5) 2017... (120th) with (473.1)... (123rd) at (43.0) 2018... (129th) with (536.9)... (129th) at (45.7) Smith... 2019... (108th) with (445.7)... (105th) at (32.5) 2020... (95th) with (441.4)... (93rd) at (33.3) 2021... (72nd) with (387.6)... (61st) at (25.8) 2022... (25th) with (332.8)... (16th) at (20.0) Current... (45th) with (343.7)... (37th) at (20.3) National rankings aren't as relevant to me as competition levels among the ~130 teams varies so much. Plus even in this short span the game, rules, etc have changed. But, it is easy to see that OSU's history on defense hasn't been it key to most of the successes. Some key games and plays, but overall a bit mediocre at best. Banker was not the caliber DC that Craig Bray was. I think that would be true of 95% of the DC’s who graced the Pac12. Bottom line, Banker had well above average performance with inarguably less talent to work with. I don’t need to argue that he deserves Hall of Fame status but he damn sure didn’t deserve to be fired wtf. I’ve never disagreed with a Dave86 post more vehemently, this is honestly kind of bizarre because I generally view Dave as incredibly reasonable. OrangeAttack, I'll tell you right where I'm coming from. I'm an electronics engineer by occupation. That means I am constantly learning new things to adapt to a changing world. Since graduating from OSU in 1986, I've learned more software design tools, programming languages, and chip technologies than you can imagine. In fact, this last year, I successfully learned yet another programming language (Python). Mark Banker needs to be able to learn a few new things to adapt to a changing world. And all that was expected of him was to just learn how option offenses work and how to defend them. Then take those principles and apply them to defending Chip Kelly's "zone read option". Mark Banker was being paid 4 times as much money as I was making at the time. He had better be able to learn some new things when he's making that kind of money. I used to go to a lot of the spring and August fall camp practices. Wrote a bunch of practice reports and posted them online, too. I never saw Banker's defense practice against an offense where the QB was meshing with the RB. Never saw the "back side defensive end" being optioned. Never saw practicing against mobile QBs. Banker's defenses only practiced against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. Frankly, I didn't see any evidence at those practices that said Banker was even trying to adapt to evolving offenses. Very, very sad. Oh, but don't worry: I readily admit Banker's defenses worked just fine against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. LOL. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 23, 2023 9:54:30 GMT -8
Banker was not the caliber DC that Craig Bray was. I think that would be true of 95% of the DC’s who graced the Pac12. Bottom line, Banker had well above average performance with inarguably less talent to work with. I don’t need to argue that he deserves Hall of Fame status but he damn sure didn’t deserve to be fired wtf. I’ve never disagreed with a Dave86 post more vehemently, this is honestly kind of bizarre because I generally view Dave as incredibly reasonable. OrangeAttack, I'll tell you right where I'm coming from. I'm an electronics engineer by occupation. That means I am constantly learning new things to adapt to a changing world. Since graduating from OSU in 1986, I've learned more software design tools, programming languages, and chip technologies than you can imagine. In fact, this last year, I successfully learned yet another programming language (Python). Mark Banker needs to be able to learn a few new things to adapt to a changing world. And all that was expected of him was to just learn how option offenses work and how to defend them. Then take those principles and apply them to defending Chip Kelly's "zone read option". Mark Banker was being paid 4 times as much money as I was making at the time. He had better be able to learn some new things when he's making that kind of money. I used to go to a lot of the spring and August fall camp practices. Wrote a bunch of practice reports and posted them online, too. I never saw Banker's defense practice against an offense where the QB was meshing with the RB. Never saw the "back side defensive end" being optioned. Never saw practicing against mobile QBs. Banker's defenses only practiced against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. Frankly, I didn't see any evidence at those practices that said Banker was even trying to adapt to evolving offenses. Very, very sad. Oh, but don't worry: I readily admit Banker's defenses worked just fine against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. LOL. Appreciate the response! I understand where you are coming from, and I understand that was also the prevailing sentiment at the time - frustration with being unable to solve the Chip Kelly riddle. I think where your logical fallacy lies is in comparing yourself to Banker, and expectations that revolve around Banker having a similar ability to adapt as you found yourself needing to do in order to be successful in your career. Simply put, apples and bananas. It's the wrong metric to give someone an honest evaluation. I talk a lot about boxing analogies because it's something I know well and can speak intelligently to, but it also is serves really well to illustrate certain principles, because it's a game where you are laid naked to the world when the lights are on. One of the guiding principles that is accepted within the boxing cognoscenti is "greatness relative to their era", and it's useful for putting boundaries and reasonable expectations on conversations about how talented a fighter was. In this way, you can reasonably compare Steven Jackson and Bill Enyeart, and avoid silly arguments about whether Earthquake could compete with today's athletes and the resulting arguments about how today's nutrition and training methods would elevate Enyeart's abilities. You can simply talk about which one was more important to the team and how good he was relative to his peers. It's an honest evaluation in that way. So my challenge to you is to do the same with Banker. Instead of forming an opinion of his performance as the OSU DC by reflecting it against what you had to do in your career, or against the fact that Chip Kelly's 2023 offenses have been "figured out" by Pac12 defensive coordinators - ask yourself "How did Banker do relative to his peers?" I won't even make a case here in an attempt to influence you. Emotional opinions based off living through a moment in time can be difficult to impossible to change, but I'm curious how you might view things if you gave it a long "do I owe Mark Banker an apology?" type of re-evaluation. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 24, 2023 16:17:21 GMT -8
Banker was not the caliber DC that Craig Bray was. I think that would be true of 95% of the DC’s who graced the Pac12. Bottom line, Banker had well above average performance with inarguably less talent to work with. I don’t need to argue that he deserves Hall of Fame status but he damn sure didn’t deserve to be fired wtf. I’ve never disagreed with a Dave86 post more vehemently, this is honestly kind of bizarre because I generally view Dave as incredibly reasonable. OrangeAttack, I'll tell you right where I'm coming from. I'm an electronics engineer by occupation. That means I am constantly learning new things to adapt to a changing world. Since graduating from OSU in 1986, I've learned more software design tools, programming languages, and chip technologies than you can imagine. In fact, this last year, I successfully learned yet another programming language (Python). Mark Banker needs to be able to learn a few new things to adapt to a changing world. And all that was expected of him was to just learn how option offenses work and how to defend them. Then take those principles and apply them to defending Chip Kelly's "zone read option". Mark Banker was being paid 4 times as much money as I was making at the time. He had better be able to learn some new things when he's making that kind of money. I used to go to a lot of the spring and August fall camp practices. Wrote a bunch of practice reports and posted them online, too. I never saw Banker's defense practice against an offense where the QB was meshing with the RB. Never saw the "back side defensive end" being optioned. Never saw practicing against mobile QBs. Banker's defenses only practiced against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. Frankly, I didn't see any evidence at those practices that said Banker was even trying to adapt to evolving offenses. Very, very sad. Oh, but don't worry: I readily admit Banker's defenses worked just fine against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. LOL. I knew a player on the 2007 team on defense, who complained to me that they basically had to unlearn and relearn how to play against Oregon. It was the only team that they had to do that for. Otherwise, it was basically just a slight tweak here or there every week. The other point to make is that your analogy is not apt. You are playing. You change to changing times and situations. Banker does not play. He is more like a Manger. He trains others to change to changing times and situations. If he wants to change culture on defense say after 2008, he really cannot do that in total for another five years, because you have to first acquire players and then train the players in the new culture. If you want to get a team together to tackle a Python project, you hire guys that fit on that team and then train them up. That takes time to implement. I would also note that Oregon State only got extra time to deal with Oregon's offense once in the six years, 2009. And Oregon State's defense almost did enough to win that 2009 game. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 24, 2023 16:51:14 GMT -8
What? 2007 the "best defense in America"... how? By what measure? Just leading rushing D by 4.9 yds is the best defense in America? Pts allowed... tOSU 12.8 OSU 22.6 (33rd nat./4th Pac10) Passing yds allowed... tOSU 150.2 OSU 235.5(72nd nat./5th Pac10) Total D... tOSU 233.0 OSU 306.2 (8th nat./2nd Pac10) Being picky, but best in America should be a claim that's actually true. Best OSU defense has had in many moons, but not close to best in America. I mean they have up 30+ four times, 40+ twice 4.9 against Boston College, who I do not think anyone could argue had the best defense in America. But 12.2 ypg over Ohio State. And that completely ignores the fact that Oregon State faced 1.6 more rushing plays per game. Yards/Play: 4.47 (7th)
Turnovers/Game: 2.6 (5th)
Top 25 offenses played: 3 (Ohio State 1)
FPI Ratings: Oregon State #1 defense.
Scoring drives in the Arizona State game: 1, 22, 40, and 43 (accounting for 20 points).
Scoring drives in the UCLA game: 5, 21, 21, 39, 39, and 40 (accounting for 34 points).
Oregon State's defense only gave up 27 points to Cincinnati. The final seven points was on a blocked Alexis Serna punt. Oregon State's defense only gave up 21 points to Oregon in regulation. The final seven points was on a 33-yard fumble return. An additional three points were added in the first overtime after a 17-yard drive.
I profoundly disagree. Oregon State had the best defense in America in 2007. Things went sideways thereafter. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 24, 2023 17:17:51 GMT -8
What? 2007 the "best defense in America"... how? By what measure? Just leading rushing D by 4.9 yds is the best defense in America? Pts allowed... tOSU 12.8 OSU 22.6 (33rd nat./4th Pac10) Passing yds allowed... tOSU 150.2 OSU 235.5(72nd nat./5th Pac10) Total D... tOSU 233.0 OSU 306.2 (8th nat./2nd Pac10) Being picky, but best in America should be a claim that's actually true. Best OSU defense has had in many moons, but not close to best in America. I mean they have up 30+ four times, 40+ twice 4.9 against Boston College, who I do not think anyone could argue had the best defense in America. But 12.2 ypg over Ohio State. And that completely ignores the fact that Oregon State faced 1.6 more rushing plays per game. Yards/Play: 4.47 (7th)
Turnovers/Game: 2.6 (5th)
Top 25 offenses played: 3 (Ohio State 1)
FPI Ratings: Oregon State #1 defense.
Scoring drives in the Arizona State game: 1, 22, 40, and 43 (accounting for 20 points).
Scoring drives in the UCLA game: 5, 21, 21, 39, 39, and 40 (accounting for 34 points).
Oregon State's defense only gave up 27 points to Cincinnati. The final seven points was on a blocked Alexis Serna punt. Oregon State's defense only gave up 21 points to Oregon in regulation. The final seven points was on a 33-yard fumble return. An additional three points were added in the first overtime after a 17-yard drive.
I profoundly disagree. Oregon State had the best defense in America in 2007. Things went sideways thereafter.As usual you can twist stats to your liking, but it doesn't change the numbers. They weren't. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 25, 2023 9:11:07 GMT -8
4.9 against Boston College, who I do not think anyone could argue had the best defense in America. But 12.2 ypg over Ohio State. And that completely ignores the fact that Oregon State faced 1.6 more rushing plays per game. Yards/Play: 4.47 (7th)
Turnovers/Game: 2.6 (5th)
Top 25 offenses played: 3 (Ohio State 1)
FPI Ratings: Oregon State #1 defense.
Scoring drives in the Arizona State game: 1, 22, 40, and 43 (accounting for 20 points).
Scoring drives in the UCLA game: 5, 21, 21, 39, 39, and 40 (accounting for 34 points).
Oregon State's defense only gave up 27 points to Cincinnati. The final seven points was on a blocked Alexis Serna punt. Oregon State's defense only gave up 21 points to Oregon in regulation. The final seven points was on a 33-yard fumble return. An additional three points were added in the first overtime after a 17-yard drive.
I profoundly disagree. Oregon State had the best defense in America in 2007. Things went sideways thereafter.As usual you can twist stats to your liking, but it doesn't change the numbers. They weren't. I mean I hate Oregon State as much as the next guy. I just loathe those guys. Wait, what board am I on again? |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 25, 2023 13:46:08 GMT -8
Banker was not the caliber DC that Craig Bray was. I think that would be true of 95% of the DC’s who graced the Pac12. Bottom line, Banker had well above average performance with inarguably less talent to work with. I don’t need to argue that he deserves Hall of Fame status but he damn sure didn’t deserve to be fired wtf. I’ve never disagreed with a Dave86 post more vehemently, this is honestly kind of bizarre because I generally view Dave as incredibly reasonable. OrangeAttack, I'll tell you right where I'm coming from. I'm an electronics engineer by occupation. That means I am constantly learning new things to adapt to a changing world. Since graduating from OSU in 1986, I've learned more software design tools, programming languages, and chip technologies than you can imagine. In fact, this last year, I successfully learned yet another programming language (Python). Mark Banker needs to be able to learn a few new things to adapt to a changing world. And all that was expected of him was to just learn how option offenses work and how to defend them. Then take those principles and apply them to defending Chip Kelly's "zone read option". Mark Banker was being paid 4 times as much money as I was making at the time. He had better be able to learn some new things when he's making that kind of money. I used to go to a lot of the spring and August fall camp practices. Wrote a bunch of practice reports and posted them online, too. I never saw Banker's defense practice against an offense where the QB was meshing with the RB. Never saw the "back side defensive end" being optioned. Never saw practicing against mobile QBs. Banker's defenses only practiced against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. Frankly, I didn't see any evidence at those practices that said Banker was even trying to adapt to evolving offenses. Very, very sad. Oh, but don't worry: I readily admit Banker's defenses worked just fine against pro-style offenses with pocket passers. LOL. While I think Banker gets a little too much grief... given the overall quality of OSU's rosters, I have to agree with you he was slow to adapt. Before it was Oregon, it was his refusal to ever get out of a base 4-3 set, despite the likes of Maurice Jones Drew absolutely destroying us, or slot receivers and TE eating our lunches for two seasons before (if I recall correctly) Riley effectively directed him to do it... |
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