|
|
Post by irimi on Oct 20, 2023 14:00:27 GMT -8
They're not coming back. Especially Oregon and Washington. Besides their institutional arrogance and unwillingness to ever admit they made a mistake, the longer they stay in the Big Ten, the more they get vested and the more money they earn. Washington is suing us. Oregon seems to think there is value being the lowest-ranked Big Ten school academically, by a substantial margin. Bridge burned. USC and UCLA are the ones who started all this nonsense. What motivation would they ever have to return? Bridge burned. Stanford and Cal decided to join a league and travel clear across the country FOR NO MONEY FOR NINE YEARS. Seems like they've screamed they don't want to associate with OSU/WSU/MWC, no matter the financial/logistical consequences. Bridge burned. The Four Corners schools won't find life much different in the Big 12, their travel costs will be acceptable, they will be happy enough just having a spot in the worst of the P4 conferences. Bridge burned. I do think they will rue the loss of the "we play often in California" card when it comes to recruiting in that state. Let your brain play with the hypothetical for a bit. What if? What if? Would you take them back? Yes, I very much understand everything you wrote there, and in a predictable world, that would be how it would turn out. But nothing is predictable. And no one knows what the toll is going to be on their other sports programs, like tennis or golf. And is there anyone who really believes that flying across the country to play sports each week or twice a week is a sane step forward? We'll see what happens in a couple of years. You're probably right, but maybe you're not. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Oct 20, 2023 14:05:33 GMT -8
I think the fight should be to recruit the Universities that will be harmed in the long term by the merger For example: Go after Baylor, Huston, Texas Tech, and TCU from the Big 12 before they get relegated out when there isn't enough TV money to pay all those teams. Grab Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, and Nebraska from the Big 10 I know that's wishful thinking but the message needs to be sent, if you are perceived as a team that takes more than it gives its not a matter of when you will be left behind. Let the Beavs and the Cougs become agents of chaos! Yes. Every "also-ran" is at risk. Not next year, not in a couple years... but certainly in the next decade. I think the trouble with this is that it creates exactly what ESPN and Fox want: A conference or two of Powerhouses and the rest are the Also Rans. Still, given the alternative, I'd rather be in a conference with Also Rans than knocking on the door of the MW begging for entry. Hell, I'd take that over bending over and taking it deep for the ACC. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 20, 2023 14:06:56 GMT -8
They're not coming back. Especially Oregon and Washington. Besides their institutional arrogance and unwillingness to ever admit they made a mistake, the longer they stay in the Big Ten, the more they get vested and the more money they earn. Washington is suing us. Oregon seems to think there is value being the lowest-ranked Big Ten school academically, by a substantial margin. Bridge burned. USC and UCLA are the ones who started all this nonsense. What motivation would they ever have to return? Bridge burned. Stanford and Cal decided to join a league and travel clear across the country FOR NO MONEY FOR NINE YEARS. Seems like they've screamed they don't want to associate with OSU/WSU/MWC, no matter the financial/logistical consequences. Bridge burned. The Four Corners schools won't find life much different in the Big 12, their travel costs will be acceptable, they will be happy enough just having a spot in the worst of the P4 conferences. Bridge burned. I do think they will rue the loss of the "we play often in California" card when it comes to recruiting in that state. Let your brain play with the hypothetical for a bit. What if? What if? Would you take them back? Yes, I very much understand everything you wrote there, and in a predictable world, that would be how it would turn out. But nothing is predictable. And no one knows what the toll is going to be on their other sports programs, like tennis or golf. And is there anyone who really believes that flying across the country to play sports each week or twice a week is a sane step forward? We'll see what happens in a couple of years. You're probably right, but maybe you're not. Would I take them back? Right now, sure. But it's not going to happen, no matter the toll on the tennis and golf teams, who are about as significant at their respective schools as North Dakota or Wyoming are to a presidential election. Hypothetically, I would have married Cindy Crawford in 1989 given the choice, but I wasn't. And even if things don't work out for the other 10, what makes you think they would even include us in their new conference? Pretty obvious they don't give a FF about OSU and WSU and in fact are actively working to bury us completely. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverdude on Oct 20, 2023 14:07:42 GMT -8
Then came a game @ UW, who was flailing at the time if my recollection is right, and the Canzona article promising the Huskies the Beavers were coming up to punch them in the mouth. Just the thing their coaches needed to get their players attention. I think it was Wheaton who took the crown of a helmet in the chin while going up to make a catch. Now that Canzano is no longer at the O, has he ever confessed who paid him to write that article. We were at that game. It was played on the Sea Chicken's field because Husky stadium was being remodeled. That hit on Wheaton was brutal and would be called targeting today. The husky fans around us couldn't believe there was no penalty on the play. It was Manion's first game back from a knee injury too. It was probably 1 week too early for him too. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Oct 20, 2023 14:15:09 GMT -8
I think because they are taking the time to verify they have a two year grace period, OSU/WSU intents to be selective and give themselves options. If they had to be a full conference next year I think they have to do the fully MWC merger. (reverse merger, of course). But knowing they have time, doing the work to make sure they have it, is a clear signal they are going to rebuild carefully and not just out of time pressure. Undoubtedly most of the MWC is probably on the table, but I think OSU/WSU can start hard selling on other teams to join up, particularly seeing if their is an option to get Cal and Stanford to come back (I have no idea if this is possible, if they signed GORs yet or anything) I think they took the stability of a conference invite over the unknown. But if the unknown becomes more known, maybe they elected to not have to literally travel to the entire east coast for every away game. Seriously their travel situation is worse than the Big-10 schools. Just pure unbacked conjecture, I haven't looked to see if they can exit at all, or if that is even known. Obviously the challenge is if you don't have a media deal, what are you going to tell teams? Selling to teams will be really hard. But we could try (key word) to see if we could pluck off a few Also-rans from other conferences maybe looking increase their odds at a playoff seat. The new Pac-12 creates interesting opportunity to be in a league were most teams are on pretty equal competitive footing to earn that Playoff bid. Sure it is a risky and I am sure 95% of middling teams would just rather have the money than the on-field success... but there are a lot of "Purdue or Kansas St" tier teams in other conferences that usually pretty good, but will probably never be better or out recruit the major blue bloods in their conference. That in itself could be a selling point. The small fish in a big pond versus a big fish in a small pond idea. Because make no mistake, CFP is going to be BIG business. Huge business. Just getting there can be a huge boon to teams, to be considered "A playoff team". Increasing your odds of having a realistic shot of getting there maybe worth the difference in several million a year in media money. Just a thought, probably not a realistic one. Of course we know this is as much about an annual budget and funding is as it is about anything else. Like I said, I imagine most "also-rans" are perfectly fine being that. Remember, Bobby D was absolutely, perfectly, and abundantly happy with OSU being a Pac-12 also ran year over year with Riley.
You obviously have a different memory of the Riley years than I do. I remember us going down to the final game of the regular season competing for the Rose Bowl and the conference championship at least twice, and remember us playing (and generally winning) bowl games in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012 and 2013. I think when Andersen took over in 2015 we still had the third-most conference wins of any conference team in the 21st century. And we never reached the top of that pile. Even with all those good years. I think that's what he means. I also think that's how Mediocre Mike got his nickname. Beaver fans are pretty easy to please. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 20, 2023 14:20:19 GMT -8
Let your brain play with the hypothetical for a bit. What if? What if? Would you take them back? Yes, I very much understand everything you wrote there, and in a predictable world, that would be how it would turn out. But nothing is predictable. And no one knows what the toll is going to be on their other sports programs, like tennis or golf. And is there anyone who really believes that flying across the country to play sports each week or twice a week is a sane step forward? We'll see what happens in a couple of years. You're probably right, but maybe you're not. Would I take them back? Right now, sure. But it's not going to happen, no matter the toll on the tennis and golf teams, who are about as significant at their respective schools as North Dakota or Wyoming are to a presidential election. Hypothetically, I would have married Cindy Crawford in 1989 given the choice, but I wasn't. And even if things don't work out for the other 10, what makes you think they would even include us in their new conference? Pretty obvious they don't give a FF about OSU and WSU and in fact are actively working to bury us completely. Fun fact: North Dakota and Wyoming decided the 2000 Presidential Election. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 20, 2023 14:40:45 GMT -8
I can see the Riley II era split into two different periods. Pre-2010, featured all the highlights. 10 win season in 2006. A win away from the Rose Bowl in 2008 and 2009. But once the calendar flipped to the 2010s, that's when most of the negatives happened. Losses to Sacramento State and Eastern Washington. Blowing the lead in the Alamo Bowl. Every opposing quarterback looking like Michael Vick. I don't know how to explain it, but it was as if I saw two different programs. 2012 featured a 6-0 start with zero cupcakes: Wisconsin @ucla @arizona WSU @byu UTAH Then came a game @ UW, who was flailing at the time if my recollection is right, and the Canzona article promising the Huskies the Beavers were coming up to punch them in the mouth. Just the thing their coaches needed to get their players attention. I think it was Wheaton who took the crown of a helmet in the chin while going up to make a catch. Now that Canzano is no longer at the O, has he ever confessed who paid him to write that article. 2012 was the greatest six-game start in Oregon State history. Oregon State beat #13 Wisconsin in Corvallis and then beat #19 UCLA at the Rose Bowl, Oregon State's third win ever at the Rose Bowl. Oregon State beat 3-1 Arizona (one of those wins being a 59-38 beatdown of #18 Oklahoma State) in Tucson 38-35 in a thriller. Arizona was ranked #22 after starting 3-0 before losing to Oregon in Eugene. Oregon State beat 2-3 Wazzu (only losses were to BYU, Colorado, and Oregon) 19-6. Mannion got hurt and was announced out for at least two weeks. BYU was 4-2 in 2012 and was ranked #25 before losing to Utah by 3. BYU wound up losing five games, four of which were by a combined 13 points (BYU lost to Boise in Boise by one on a Thursday after losing to Utah the previous Saturday). Oregon State won 42-24 in Provo, winning the game by more than the other four BYU losses combined. It remained the most lopsided win by any team in Provo until 13-1 Wisconsin went in and won by more in 2017. Utah was a 2-4 team but was much fresher. Six great wins. Oregon State was ranked #7, which remains the Beavers' highest ranking since the final poll after the 2001 Fiesta Bowl. Then, Mannion came back a week too early and everything went sideways from there. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 20, 2023 16:13:39 GMT -8
Let your brain play with the hypothetical for a bit. What if? What if? Would you take them back? Yes, I very much understand everything you wrote there, and in a predictable world, that would be how it would turn out. But nothing is predictable. And no one knows what the toll is going to be on their other sports programs, like tennis or golf. And is there anyone who really believes that flying across the country to play sports each week or twice a week is a sane step forward? We'll see what happens in a couple of years. You're probably right, but maybe you're not. Would I take them back? Right now, sure. But it's not going to happen, no matter the toll on the tennis and golf teams, who are about as significant at their respective schools as North Dakota or Wyoming are to a presidential election. Hypothetically, I would have married Cindy Crawford in 1989 given the choice, but I wasn't. And even if things don't work out for the other 10, what makes you think they would even include us in their new conference? Pretty obvious they don't give a FF about OSU and WSU and in fact are actively working to bury us completely. I almost wrote the exact same post two days ago, but I was thinking Christie Brinkley. Supposedly one of the Presidents or ADs called up the Big 12 leaders and was quoted as asking "Take the rest of us, except Oregon State and Washington State". And that was before the day of the Apple deal when there were still 9 teams. "Who" said that never got out. If they were pulling for us, they'd have already done it. They are probably much more interested in killing the league, and if years down the line they had the opportunity to reconstitute it there's zero guarantee we'd be considered as part of the package. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 20, 2023 17:51:48 GMT -8
Would I take them back? Right now, sure. But it's not going to happen, no matter the toll on the tennis and golf teams, who are about as significant at their respective schools as North Dakota or Wyoming are to a presidential election. Hypothetically, I would have married Cindy Crawford in 1989 given the choice, but I wasn't. And even if things don't work out for the other 10, what makes you think they would even include us in their new conference? Pretty obvious they don't give a FF about OSU and WSU and in fact are actively working to bury us completely. Fun fact: North Dakota and Wyoming decided the 2000 Presidential Election. I'm at 25% and plan to stay there. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave86 on Oct 20, 2023 21:07:41 GMT -8
I can see the Riley II era split into two different periods. Pre-2010, featured all the highlights. 10 win season in 2006. A win away from the Rose Bowl in 2008 and 2009. But once the calendar flipped to the 2010s, that's when most of the negatives happened. Losses to Sacramento State and Eastern Washington. Blowing the lead in the Alamo Bowl. Every opposing quarterback looking like Michael Vick. I don't know how to explain it, but it was as if I saw two different programs. Agreed! That's exactly how I saw it. And a lot of people in my section of the stadium would have also agreed. A lot of folks became anti-Riley and EXTREMELY Anti-Banker during that time (and I think ducks having so much success w/Chip didn't help matters). Midway through 2013 the wheels really fell off. Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrich |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 20, 2023 21:23:14 GMT -8
Riley's defense at Nebraska was far worse under Banker's successor. Make of that what you will.
Banker was hardly the only Pac-12 DC who had trouble with Oregon's offense.
|
|
|
|
Post by bvrbooster on Oct 20, 2023 21:47:16 GMT -8
Would I take them back? Right now, sure. But it's not going to happen, no matter the toll on the tennis and golf teams, who are about as significant at their respective schools as North Dakota or Wyoming are to a presidential election. Hypothetically, I would have married Cindy Crawford in 1989 given the choice, but I wasn't. And even if things don't work out for the other 10, what makes you think they would even include us in their new conference? Pretty obvious they don't give a FF about OSU and WSU and in fact are actively working to bury us completely. I almost wrote the exact same post two days ago, but I was thinking Christie Brinkley. Supposedly one of the Presidents or ADs called up the Big 12 leaders and was quoted as asking "Take the rest of us, except Oregon State and Washington State". And that was before the day of the Apple deal when there were still 9 teams. "Who" said that never got out. If they were pulling for us, they'd have already done it. They are probably much more interested in killing the league, and if years down the line they had the opportunity to reconstitute it there's zero guarantee we'd be considered as part of the package. Hate to rain on your Christie Brinkley fantasy, D&S, but her next birthday, in 3 months, will be her 70th. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Oct 21, 2023 6:15:12 GMT -8
Agreed! That's exactly how I saw it. And a lot of people in my section of the stadium would have also agreed. A lot of folks became anti-Riley and EXTREMELY Anti-Banker during that time (and I think ducks having so much success w/Chip didn't help matters). Midway through 2013 the wheels really fell off. Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrichMark lives in Corvallis and I see him often at the golf course. I’ll send him your warmest regards. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 21, 2023 8:05:57 GMT -8
I almost wrote the exact same post two days ago, but I was thinking Christie Brinkley. Supposedly one of the Presidents or ADs called up the Big 12 leaders and was quoted as asking "Take the rest of us, except Oregon State and Washington State". And that was before the day of the Apple deal when there were still 9 teams. "Who" said that never got out. If they were pulling for us, they'd have already done it. They are probably much more interested in killing the league, and if years down the line they had the opportunity to reconstitute it there's zero guarantee we'd be considered as part of the package. Hate to rain on your Christie Brinkley fantasy, D&S, but her next birthday, in 3 months, will be her 70th. She’s got a few years on me, but I’m hitting Medicare age in a month so I shouldn’t complain. 35-ish years ago (Scrim mentioned 1989) I was single and I doubt that many would have brought up the 4-5 year age difference. |
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Oct 21, 2023 8:09:10 GMT -8
Agreed! That's exactly how I saw it. And a lot of people in my section of the stadium would have also agreed. A lot of folks became anti-Riley and EXTREMELY Anti-Banker during that time (and I think ducks having so much success w/Chip didn't help matters). Midway through 2013 the wheels really fell off. Please add me to the list of "EXTREMELY Anti-Banker" Oregon State football fans. Chip Kelly arrived in Eugene sometime around 2007 with his innovative "zone read spread option" offense. Kelly's offense put up big points against befuddled Banker's defense, costing the Beavers two chances of going to the Rose Bowl. Given the tremendous value of going to the Rose Bowl for the entire Oregon State University, I've always been annoyed at Riley for not disposing of Banker. Simply selfishness on Riley's part. Banker just does not have the problem-solving analytical skills it takes to understand how Kelly's offense works and then to scheme against it. Banker needs to see other teams solve that problem, and then hopefully learn from them. Not acceptable given the amount of money he was being paid. Stanford did figure out how to deal with Kelly's offense, and an article appeared in Sports Illustrated magazine explaining what they did. A swimsuit magazine. Rather than grow up and fire Banker, Riley left for Nebraska, taking precious Banker with him. I find it absolutely comical that Nebraska forced Riley to terminate Banker a year later. Good for you, Nebraska. I've had no end of appreciation for the job Mike Riley did for Oregon State - both stints. Big difference maker. But this ridiculous Mark Banker thing was definitely his short coming. When Riley returned to Corvallis in 2003, Erickson's defensive coordinator Craig Bray (Trent's father) was still in town... www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2016/10/17/13120842/oregon-ducks-offense-zone-read-inside-outside-mark-helfrich |
|
