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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 16, 2023 10:02:58 GMT -8
If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. Not if OSU/WSU gain control, roll independent for a year then merge, which is an idea floating about. This all hinges on OSU/WSU being awarded the conference and then has the options on how to move forward. I'm thinking going independent for a year or two would likely damage OSU football, and other programs, more than a lot of people can imagine. Maybe my imagination is running away with me, but I think it could really harm recruiting and really mess with the transfer portal... and I'm talking this December and early next year. Going independent basically says to recruits and players: "Please stick with us, nobody wants us right now, we really don't know where we are going to end up 1/2/more years from now, we don't know how long or how many road trips we're going to have or who we're going to play, we don't know if we'll be able to keep our coaching staffs intact, we don't know what conference we'll end up in, or if we'll be stuck without a conference like UCONN and UMASS.... But, everything will be fine - Be Beavers! " That's not exactly a strong recruiting and retention pitch. |
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Post by ag87 on Oct 16, 2023 10:38:51 GMT -8
The B12 isn't going to merge into the Pac2. If the Pac2 disappeared, isn't a stand alone conference, so does the control of the money. All future NCAA units and CFP payouts are due to the Pac12/2. It has to exist as a conference. Hence the reverse merger is the only viable way to keep control (or go as the Pac2) of it if happens. And why would the Pac2 schools give away big money/buy in to a B12 that didn't want them... even if they could? I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. it seems to an absolute non-attorney like me there's a way to have your cake and eat it too. E.g. an agreement with the B12 that says there is a reciprocal scheduling arrangement for the P2 in all sports. The P2 lives. The P2 is included in Bowl contracts. The B12 gets 80% of the money that's coming down the road. Maybe the P2 ceases to exist after a few years or perhaps it only remains a legal entity. Of course B12 media carrier would have to throw some more dollars in the pot. And if the bay schools break the ACC contract, there's a defacto P8 division. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 16, 2023 11:53:53 GMT -8
Leaving out Sam Jose would actually help our recruiting. It would eliminate a viable local alternative for kids in that region. SJSU football will remain what it always has been: The No. 3 college football option in a region that has millions and millions of people, most of whom don't care at all about college football, drawing between 8-12K a game to half a stadium. I don't think any MWC school should be left out if we reverse merge. Take them all. But if you're going to drop one to stay at 12 teams, SJSU is clearly the weakest link. I think they'd drop football altogether if that happens and join the Big West. So are you already nixing Hawaii? The Mountain West currently has 12 teams for football. I would also think that New Mexico would better to nix than SJSU. Hawaii is an affiliate member, with a 15K stadium. I see no reason to considerably add to everyone's expenses by making them a full member, in all sports, or even in retaining them as an affiliate. As for UNM, they are much bigger in their market than SJSU is in the Bay Area. If we are going to reverse merge, we should only take the full-time members. |
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Post by ag87 on Oct 16, 2023 11:57:02 GMT -8
Maybe if U of New Mexico had a couple extra million dollars they would put it into their football program and try to be respectable.
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Post by p8nted on Oct 16, 2023 12:06:06 GMT -8
People havre been saying SJSU has potential for decades is seems. It is a commuter school with few students interested in sports.
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 16, 2023 12:33:57 GMT -8
People havre been saying SJSU has potential for decades is seems. It is a commuter school with few students interested in sports. Exactly.....It's like an FBS version of Portland St. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 16, 2023 14:51:09 GMT -8
I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. Lol... did I not say that. Or just not as clear as you?? Not sure why folks think future money will still be there to control if there is no Pac2? And, in the "deal" to allow co-conferences for scheduling why in the world would the two give up millions to be split up by B12 schools? Especially when they just fought to not split it up. The reverse merger allows them to keep far more $, get scheduling and add a good NC slate. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 16, 2023 14:59:08 GMT -8
I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. That's not true. That's not how a merger works. The remaining assets would be divided up as agreed upon by terms of the merger. The conference would not dissolve. It would be merged into the Big 12, which would be where a plurality of the Pac-12 teams will have landed. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 16, 2023 15:07:34 GMT -8
If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. That's not true. That's not how a merger works. The remaining assets would be divided up as agreed upon by terms of the merger. The conference would not dissolve. It would be merged into the Big 12, which would be where a plurality of the Pac-12 teams will have landed. Zero chance that is allowed to happen. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 16, 2023 15:12:33 GMT -8
That's not true. That's not how a merger works. The remaining assets would be divided up as agreed upon by terms of the merger. The conference would not dissolve. It would be merged into the Big 12, which would be where a plurality of the Pac-12 teams will have landed. Zero chance that is allowed to happen. "Allowed" by whom? If the other 10 universities have abandoned the conference, the conference (i.e. Oregon State and Wazzu) gets to decide how the remaining assets will be spent. That includes a merger with whatever conference that they wish. That is how entities work. That is how the "reverse merger" with the Mountain West would work. There might be a trip up, if there is a true merger into the Big 12, rather than a "reverse merger" with the Mountain West, but that can be ironed out. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 16, 2023 15:15:31 GMT -8
Zero chance that is allowed to happen. "Allowed" by whom? If the other 10 universities have abandoned the conference, the conference (i.e. Oregon State and Wazzu) gets to decide how the remaining assets will be spent. That includes a merger with whatever conference that they wish. That is how entities work. That is how the "reverse merger" with the Mountain West would work. There might be a trip up, if there is a true merger into the Big 12, rather than a "reverse merger" with the Mountain West, but that can be ironed out. We would have to carry on the conference for a year as the PAC 12......and that might work. If we left after this year, we would be abandoning the conference as well. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 16, 2023 15:36:42 GMT -8
"Allowed" by whom? If the other 10 universities have abandoned the conference, the conference (i.e. Oregon State and Wazzu) gets to decide how the remaining assets will be spent. That includes a merger with whatever conference that they wish. That is how entities work. That is how the "reverse merger" with the Mountain West would work. There might be a trip up, if there is a true merger into the Big 12, rather than a "reverse merger" with the Mountain West, but that can be ironed out. We would have to carry on the conference for a year as the PAC 12......and that might work. If we left after this year, we would be abandoning the conference as well. Merging is not abandoning, though. It is continuing on the Pac-12 as a subsidiary of the Big 12 or as a single Big 12/Pac-12 entity named............? Or maybe the 18 Big 12 teams accept invitations to join the Pac-12 with the understanding that the Big 12 will invite Oregon State and Wazzu to be full members after seven years. Or you could do a Big 12/Pac-12 promotion/relegation thing, like what was proposed with the Mountain West, so the merged conference keeps two different automatic bids. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Oct 16, 2023 15:37:00 GMT -8
Yes football makes the money but so far I haven't heard anybody talk about baseball, softball, men and women soccer, gymnastics, wrestling, etc..Do most of the MWC schools even have these sports? If they do they aren't anywhere near the quality of our teams. Hoping the Big12 comes calling because a merger, reverse merger...whatever you want to call it is a death knell for beaver sports.
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Post by p8nted on Oct 16, 2023 15:43:12 GMT -8
People havre been saying SJSU has potential for decades is seems. It is a commuter school with few students interested in sports. Exactly.....It's like an FBS version of Portland St. Yep. It took them a decade of fund raising to try to add onto the partially torn down stadium and it is still nowhere close to most of it even starting. The alumni are not into sports either. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 16, 2023 15:48:59 GMT -8
Yes football makes the money but so far I haven't heard anybody talk about baseball, softball, men and women soccer, gymnastics, wrestling, etc..Do most of the MWC schools even have these sports? If they do they aren't anywhere near the quality of our teams. Hoping the Big12 comes calling because a merger, reverse merger...whatever you want to call it is a death knell for beaver sports. Baseball: Air Force, Fresno, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, and San Jose State.
Softball: Boise, Fresno, Colorado State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico, San Diego State, San Jose State, and Utah State.
Soccer: Only Air Force, UNLV, San Diego State, and San Jose State have men's soccer teams. All universities sponsor women's soccer.
Gymnastics: Only Air Force, Boise, San Jose State, and Utah State have gymnastics.
Wrestling: Only Air Force and Wyoming. Both teams compete in the Big 12. |
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