|
|
Post by sparty on Oct 15, 2023 17:45:37 GMT -8
There are less people in the entire state of Wyoming that there are people in the city limits of Portland. University of Wyoming has barely a $500M endowment and 11,000 students. That is it. That is why. Conference realignment has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the football program and everything to do with the fan base/alumni base of the school. Oregon State and WSU have better football programs than half the teams still in major P5 conferences... Hell, even considering our disastorous Anderpants era, we have better records over the past 20 years then half of other schools. But we are on the outside looking in because we are in Corvallis and Pullman, and our alum base happen to share the same media market of teams already picked. But these worse programs are locked in, because they are old money schools, with old money alum and generally in large metro areas. Ironically, University of Wyoming is actually a much better overall school than SJSU... but SJSU is a better conference partner because... well, they are a 35K student school in the middle of San Jose, that has its own city limits population of over 1 million people, and then is connected to the larger Bay Area, with around 20 million people. Which means, if San Jose was to get good, they have a larger potential to be relevant with viewership. Big if... but it matters. Nobody gives a crap about SJSU football. Even when they’ve had good years, their crowds are terrible. Wyoming has a bigger fan following than SJSU. If your logic was correct, maybe we should add Portland St. You are just making too much sense. Well done and logical. |
|
|
|
Post by sparty on Oct 15, 2023 17:50:47 GMT -8
OSU has been talked about quite a bit by media pundits/college football reporters/sports radio personalities/sports TV personalities/columnists, etc., pretty much on a constant basis since all the realignment stuff happened to create the Pac-2 in August and it has continued in part because OSU has stayed ranked throughout the season... As far as "fans" go...do any talk much about any team except the one they support? Not many I would say. And certainly not much about teams that are out of their conference. Maybe what he alluding to is it is not getting much traction outside of the pacific northwest. There has been talk about UCONN wanting to get in another conference too but no one here gives a rats butt about them. Most of the other stuff is just what I call Canzano click bait material. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave86 on Oct 15, 2023 18:17:32 GMT -8
You mean 5-1 Wyoming who knocked off a top 25 team last week and who’s only loss is to Texas? I don’t get all of the Wyoming hate. They have a pretty good program. There are less people in the entire state of Wyoming that there are people in the city limits of Portland. University of Wyoming has barely a $500M endowment and 11,000 students. That is it. That is why. Conference realignment has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the football program and everything to do with the fan base/alumni base of the school. Oregon State and WSU have better football programs than half the teams still in major P5 conferences... Hell, even considering our disastorous Anderpants era, we have better records over the past 20 years then half of other schools. But we are on the outside looking in because we are in Corvallis and Pullman, and our alum base happen to share the same media market of teams already picked. But these worse programs are locked in, because they are old money schools, with old money alum and generally in large metro areas. Ironically, University of Wyoming is actually a much better overall school than SJSU... but SJSU is a better conference partner because... well, they are a 35K student school in the middle of San Jose, that has its own city limits population of over 1 million people, and then is connected to the larger Bay Area, with around 20 million people. Which means, if San Jose was to get good, they have a larger potential to be relevant with viewership. Big if... but it matters. Another vote here for San Jose State as a member of a rebuilt PAC-12 conference over Wyoming. No doubt right now Wyoming has the better football team right now. Wyoming is much better than San Jose State. But San Jose State gets the nod for a rebuilt PAC-12 as it is a better long-term investment: * Much bigger school means more alumni to make donations * Large TV market for better TV contract for the conference * Easier travel access * Located in a major recruiting region When was the last time Oregon State recruited a football player from Wyoming? It never ceases to amaze me that California has nearly 40,000,000 people, but only four Power 5 schools. A rebuilt PAC-12 with San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State would have a lot of long-term potential. |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Oct 15, 2023 19:34:43 GMT -8
There are less people in the entire state of Wyoming that there are people in the city limits of Portland. University of Wyoming has barely a $500M endowment and 11,000 students. That is it. That is why. Conference realignment has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the football program and everything to do with the fan base/alumni base of the school. Oregon State and WSU have better football programs than half the teams still in major P5 conferences... Hell, even considering our disastorous Anderpants era, we have better records over the past 20 years then half of other schools. But we are on the outside looking in because we are in Corvallis and Pullman, and our alum base happen to share the same media market of teams already picked. But these worse programs are locked in, because they are old money schools, with old money alum and generally in large metro areas. Ironically, University of Wyoming is actually a much better overall school than SJSU... but SJSU is a better conference partner because... well, they are a 35K student school in the middle of San Jose, that has its own city limits population of over 1 million people, and then is connected to the larger Bay Area, with around 20 million people. Which means, if San Jose was to get good, they have a larger potential to be relevant with viewership. Big if... but it matters. Nobody gives a crap about SJSU football. Even when they’ve had good years, their crowds are terrible. Wyoming has a bigger fan following than SJSU. If your logic was correct, maybe we should add Portland St. Who said anything about crowds? I am talking about people watching TV. that is the bottom line of conference realignment. That is what I mean by fan base/Alumni base. Eyes on the TV. My point is, for a media partner, access to the San Jose Market is far more valuable than access to the Laramie market. Period. San Jose actually does pretty well, relatively speaking, in ratings when they get a game on network TV. |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Oct 15, 2023 19:35:54 GMT -8
There are less people in the entire state of Wyoming that there are people in the city limits of Portland. University of Wyoming has barely a $500M endowment and 11,000 students. That is it. That is why. Conference realignment has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the football program and everything to do with the fan base/alumni base of the school. Oregon State and WSU have better football programs than half the teams still in major P5 conferences... Hell, even considering our disastorous Anderpants era, we have better records over the past 20 years then half of other schools. But we are on the outside looking in because we are in Corvallis and Pullman, and our alum base happen to share the same media market of teams already picked. But these worse programs are locked in, because they are old money schools, with old money alum and generally in large metro areas. Ironically, University of Wyoming is actually a much better overall school than SJSU... but SJSU is a better conference partner because... well, they are a 35K student school in the middle of San Jose, that has its own city limits population of over 1 million people, and then is connected to the larger Bay Area, with around 20 million people. Which means, if San Jose was to get good, they have a larger potential to be relevant with viewership. Big if... but it matters. Another vote here for San Jose State as a member of a rebuilt PAC-12 conference over Wyoming. No doubt right now Wyoming has the better football team right now. Wyoming is much better than San Jose State. But San Jose State gets the nod for a rebuilt PAC-12 as it is a better long-term investment: * Much bigger school means more alumni to make donations * Large TV market for better TV contract for the conference * Easier travel access * Located in a major recruiting region When was the last time Oregon State recruited a football player from Wyoming? It never ceases to amaze me that California has nearly 40,000,000 people, but only four Power 5 schools. A rebuilt PAC-12 with San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State would have a lot of long-term potential. Yeah. It isn't about today necessarily, it is about what it could be. If we are forced to rebuild a conference, we have to balance getting the current best we can get with getting who could have the most potential. San Jose State has a lot of potential... |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Oct 15, 2023 20:04:15 GMT -8
I think what is being debated is which schools are most likely ready to grow into a power 5 team. But this isn’t about wins only. Facilities, student body, alumni, donors. Which schools alumni would become ecstatic at the thought of their school playing in the top tier? Those schools are going to need money to lure recruits, coaches, and fans. It’s not a small commitment.
|
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 15, 2023 22:20:47 GMT -8
Any solution that saddles us with the San Jose St's and Wyoming's of the world for time immemorial is, at best, a last resort. To jump right into that just to gain short term stability would be very short-sighted. I know you and many others feel differently, and have already done the mental gymnastics to convince yourself that everything will be ok if we go this route. That's fine, I'm not there yet. And I hope like hell Barnes and Chun aren't there yet either... What mental gymnastics have you done to convince yourself that OSU is getting an offer from a P4 conference? Honestly, if Oregon State and Wazzu win their lawsuit in Whitman County, I believe that the chances of an invite to say a Big 12 would greatly increase. You can get very creative with a Big 12 - Pac-12 merger, if the money is there. If Oregon State and Wazzu lose that case, chances are much more remote, absent Oregon State or Wazzu winning the Pac-12 in football or basketball. I also believe that if the administration starts not scheduling regional powers, because of hurt feelings, the invite is never coming. It continues to be a time that Oregon State needs great levelheaded leadership and not vengeful spite. Save vengeful spite for a couple of years to see how this all plays out. Oregon State gets an invite, if they beat and continue to beat several regional powers a year. |
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Oct 15, 2023 23:12:04 GMT -8
What mental gymnastics have you done to convince yourself that OSU is getting an offer from a P4 conference? Honestly, if Oregon State and Wazzu win their lawsuit in Whitman County, I believe that the chances of an invite to say a Big 12 would greatly increase. You can get very creative with a Big 12 - Pac-12 merger, if the money is there. If Oregon State and Wazzu lose that case, chances are much more remote, absent Oregon State or Wazzu winning the Pac-12 in football or basketball. I also believe that if the administration starts not scheduling regional powers, because of hurt feelings, the invite is never coming. It continues to be a time that Oregon State needs great levelheaded leadership and not vengeful spite. Save vengeful spite for a couple of years to see how this all plays out. Oregon State gets an invite, if they beat and continue to beat several regional powers a year. The B12 isn't going to merge into the Pac2. If the Pac2 disappeared, isn't a stand alone conference, so does the control of the money. All future NCAA units and CFP payouts are due to the Pac12/2. It has to exist as a conference. Hence the reverse merger is the only viable way to keep control (or go as the Pac2) of it if happens. And why would the Pac2 schools give away big money/buy in to a B12 that didn't want them... even if they could? |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Oct 16, 2023 8:03:35 GMT -8
Honestly, if Oregon State and Wazzu win their lawsuit in Whitman County, I believe that the chances of an invite to say a Big 12 would greatly increase. You can get very creative with a Big 12 - Pac-12 merger, if the money is there. If Oregon State and Wazzu lose that case, chances are much more remote, absent Oregon State or Wazzu winning the Pac-12 in football or basketball. I also believe that if the administration starts not scheduling regional powers, because of hurt feelings, the invite is never coming. It continues to be a time that Oregon State needs great levelheaded leadership and not vengeful spite. Save vengeful spite for a couple of years to see how this all plays out. Oregon State gets an invite, if they beat and continue to beat several regional powers a year. The B12 isn't going to merge into the Pac2. If the Pac2 disappeared, isn't a stand alone conference, so does the control of the money. All future NCAA units and CFP payouts are due to the Pac12/2. It has to exist as a conference. Hence the reverse merger is the only viable way to keep control (or go as the Pac2) of it if happens. And why would the Pac2 schools give away big money/buy in to a B12 that didn't want them... even if they could? I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Oct 16, 2023 8:09:09 GMT -8
The B12 isn't going to merge into the Pac2. If the Pac2 disappeared, isn't a stand alone conference, so does the control of the money. All future NCAA units and CFP payouts are due to the Pac12/2. It has to exist as a conference. Hence the reverse merger is the only viable way to keep control (or go as the Pac2) of it if happens. And why would the Pac2 schools give away big money/buy in to a B12 that didn't want them... even if they could? I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. |
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on Oct 16, 2023 8:43:07 GMT -8
I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. But how would this be interpreted in the court? So we win, and have control of the assets. Essentially, the defectors are then proven to have put us, and Wazzu in the precarious position we currently sit in. So do we then have to maintain the conference, even though that puts us at a competitive disadvantage? Or, can we try to use the assets to better our situation? |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 16, 2023 8:55:02 GMT -8
Leaving out Sam Jose would actually help our recruiting. It would eliminate a viable local alternative for kids in that region.
SJSU football will remain what it always has been: The No. 3 college football option in a region that has millions and millions of people, most of whom don't care at all about college football, drawing between 8-12K a game to half a stadium.
I don't think any MWC school should be left out if we reverse merge. Take them all. But if you're going to drop one to stay at 12 teams, SJSU is clearly the weakest link. I think they'd drop football altogether if that happens and join the Big West.
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Oct 16, 2023 9:39:51 GMT -8
Leaving out Sam Jose would actually help our recruiting. It would eliminate a viable local alternative for kids in that region. SJSU football will remain what it always has been: The No. 3 college football option in a region that has millions and millions of people, most of whom don't care at all about college football, drawing between 8-12K a game to half a stadium. I don't think any MWC school should be left out if we reverse merge. Take them all. But if you're going to drop one to stay at 12 teams, SJSU is clearly the weakest link. I think they'd drop football altogether if that happens and join the Big West. So are you already nixing Hawaii? The Mountain West currently has 12 teams for football. I would also think that New Mexico would better to nix than SJSU. |
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Oct 16, 2023 9:40:27 GMT -8
I think Wilky (not to put words into his mouth) is inferring the Pac-2 would merge into the Big-12 and use the assets of the Pac-2 as the bargaining chip. By doing that, the Big-12 gets what they want (more CFP money, because one less power 5 conference) and assets to either sweeten the deal, OR, pay OSU/WSUs way for a number of years so they are not dividing up media shares yet. I think that has always been the pros, or leverage if you think about it, that makes the Big-12 a possible option. But it depends on if the Beavs win and actually control this conference. If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. Not if OSU/WSU gain control, roll independent for a year then merge, which is an idea floating about. This all hinges on OSU/WSU being awarded the conference and then has the options on how to move forward. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Oct 16, 2023 9:42:06 GMT -8
If we merge into the Big 12, we will not have control of the assets. The remaining assets would be divided up among all 12 teams as the PAC 12 would completely dissolve at that point. Not if OSU/WSU gain control, roll independent for a year then merge, which is an idea floating about. This all hinges on OSU/WSU being awarded the conference and then has the options on how to move forward. The "independent" for a year part of the post was left out. Just states merging into the BIG 12 |
|
