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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 12, 2023 8:27:41 GMT -8
The exit fees only exist IF the MWC chooses not to release teams from them. Take the whole MWC, no exit fees. Get the teams in the MWC to allow teams to leave without exit fees, no exit fees. The exit fees go away if OSU/WSU win their legal decision and get an agreement with the MWC to dissolve their conference... OR... get the MWC to agree to split/expand (the expand part is critical to make it work) to the relegation scenario (which can also eliminatethe exit fees and happen right away). In my thinking, the best scenario is to do the relegation scenario, the rebuilt Pac to remain in P5 status and the new MWC to have the ability to get its teams into the Pac over time. That's a win for the Pac-2, and a win for the MWC. No exit fees. No having long distance travel for teams and their fans. OSU/WSU have a lot better shot at being the top dogs in a rebuilt Pac than the existing P4 teams. The exit fees also go away if the Pac2 waits out the MWC's current media deal for 2 years and the invites are accepted following the conclusion of the deal. I agree that it's a win for the MWC and it does make an easier path to championships, but there will probably need to be a reorganization to make sure this new conference draws enough eyeballs and that probably means not taking the MWC whole. There certainly is is no need to wait out the media deal IF enough MWC teams vote to dissolve the conference.Take the whole conference and they should easily do that. Maybe I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the conference can release the exit fees ANYTIME they want with a large enough vote, the media deal itself is not the trigger for releasing the exit fees, it’s just the time frame for renewing them or creating a new agreement - there’s a difference. It is also my understanding, that the whole relegation idea was created to give incentive for enough MWC teams to vote to allow teams to leave without exit fees. That way the Pac 2 could take the “top” 6 MWC teams, with voted permission, and create a conference competitive enough that there would be little question it could remain a Power 5 team. The remaining teams in the MWC would add enough teams to remain an active conference AND be able to compete to be able to join the P5 PAC conference every year or two - that’s the carrot that gets the vote passed. To do this, both conferences would need to expand to “AT LEAST” 16 teams total between them. The author of the article that made this idea public mentioned the 2 Dakota State schools as an example, we do not necessarily know whose idea that was, the author’s or the Conferences? We do know the Pac 2 also has been in contact with a few AAC schools about joining at some point. That potentially gets the 2 conferences to a total of “at least 16” as well. That would involve exit fees and negotiations, hence wanting to know what assets come with the PAC. It’s all interrelated. I’m saying, yes the exit fees go away by waiting 2 years, but with agreement among the MWC schools they can go away with a zoom meeting. The whole relegation idea was created to get to that zoom meeting and get the vote passed. There’s a lot of things that have to fall into place, but that was the reasoning behind the 2 conference relegation idea from what I understand. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 12, 2023 8:35:14 GMT -8
The exit fees also go away if the Pac2 waits out the MWC's current media deal for 2 years and the invites are accepted following the conclusion of the deal. I agree that it's a win for the MWC and it does make an easier path to championships, but there will probably need to be a reorganization to make sure this new conference draws enough eyeballs and that probably means not taking the MWC whole. There certainly is is no need to wait out the media deal IF enough MWC teams vote to dissolve the conference.Take the whole conference and they should easily do that. Maybe I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the conference can release the exit fees ANYTIME they want with a large enough vote, the media deal itself is not the trigger for releasing the exit fees, it’s just the time frame for renewing them or creating a new agreement, there’s a difference. It is also my understanding that the whole relegation idea was created to give incentive for enough MWC teams to vote to allow teams to leave without exit fees. That way the Pac 2 could take the “top” 6 MWC teams, with voted permission, and create a conference competitive enough that there would be little question it could remain a Power 5 team. The remaining teams in the MWC would add enough teams to remain an active conference AND be able to compete to be able to join the P5 PAC conference every year or two - that’s the carrot that gets the vote passed. To do this, both conferences would need to expand to “AT LEAST” 16 teams total between them. The author of the article that made this idea public mentioned the 2 Dakota State schools as an example, we do not necessarily know whose idea that was, the author’s or the Conferences?”We do know the Pac 2 also has been in contact with a few AAC schools about joining at some point. That would involve exit fees and negotiations, hence wanting to know what assets come with the PAC. It’s all interrelated. I’m saying, yes the exit fees go away by waiting 2 years, but with agreement among the MWC schools they can go away with a zoom meeting. The whole relegation idea was created to get to that zoom meeting and get the vote passed. It's interesting that nobody seems to view the media deal as a contract. It's almost as if everyone thinks that it's a benefit that the school leaving is simply no longer receiving, rather than being a signatory to a contractual obligation that lasts through a certain date. Maybe I am the one who misunderstands the situation. I'm not sure what the bylaws are for the MWC to be able to vote for dissolution, but I would assume that it would take a 2/3 majority vote or greater to make it happen. I don't see the relegation idea as ever being viable, but that's just my opinion man. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 12, 2023 8:40:29 GMT -8
There certainly is is no need to wait out the media deal IF enough MWC teams vote to dissolve the conference.Take the whole conference and they should easily do that. Maybe I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the conference can release the exit fees ANYTIME they want with a large enough vote, the media deal itself is not the trigger for releasing the exit fees, it’s just the time frame for renewing them or creating a new agreement, there’s a difference. It is also my understanding that the whole relegation idea was created to give incentive for enough MWC teams to vote to allow teams to leave without exit fees. That way the Pac 2 could take the “top” 6 MWC teams, with voted permission, and create a conference competitive enough that there would be little question it could remain a Power 5 team. The remaining teams in the MWC would add enough teams to remain an active conference AND be able to compete to be able to join the P5 PAC conference every year or two - that’s the carrot that gets the vote passed. To do this, both conferences would need to expand to “AT LEAST” 16 teams total between them. The author of the article that made this idea public mentioned the 2 Dakota State schools as an example, we do not necessarily know whose idea that was, the author’s or the Conferences?”We do know the Pac 2 also has been in contact with a few AAC schools about joining at some point. That would involve exit fees and negotiations, hence wanting to know what assets come with the PAC. It’s all interrelated. I’m saying, yes the exit fees go away by waiting 2 years, but with agreement among the MWC schools they can go away with a zoom meeting. The whole relegation idea was created to get to that zoom meeting and get the vote passed. It's interesting that nobody seems to view the media deal as a contract. It's almost as if everyone thinks that it's a benefit that the school leaving is simply no longer receiving, rather than being a signatory to a contractual obligation that lasts through a certain date. Maybe I am the one who misunderstands the situation. I'm not sure what the bylaws are for the MWC to be able to vote for dissolution, but I would assume that it would take a 2/3 majority vote or greater to make it happen. I don't see the relegation idea as ever being viable, but that's just my opinion man. The media deal is a contract the MWC has to honor, unless it just dissolves , then I’m not sure what happens. They probably have a withdrawal penalty of some sort. I believe Exit fees aren’t part of the media deal itself, CBS doesn’t get them. Exit fees go to the conference and are to help ensure there’s teams in the conference to maintain the conference through the media deal timeframe. There’s a difference. Its been written the MWC needs a 75/80% majority (can’t remember which) to dissolve the conference. I’m assuming the same would need to happen to release a team from its exit fee obligations. |
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Post by orangeattack on Oct 12, 2023 8:47:04 GMT -8
It's interesting that nobody seems to view the media deal as a contract. It's almost as if everyone thinks that it's a benefit that the school leaving is simply no longer receiving, rather than being a signatory to a contractual obligation that lasts through a certain date. Maybe I am the one who misunderstands the situation. I'm not sure what the bylaws are for the MWC to be able to vote for dissolution, but I would assume that it would take a 2/3 majority vote or greater to make it happen. I don't see the relegation idea as ever being viable, but that's just my opinion man. The media deal is a contract the MWC has to honor. I believe Exit fees aren’t part of the media deal itself, CBS doesn’t get them. Exit fees are to help ensure there’s teams in the conference to maintain the conference through the media deal timeframe. There’s a difference. FWIW I didn't intend to take a position one way or the other, I just thought it was interesting that it is so universally viewed as such a one-way street. To your point above, I would see the contract being dissolved with CBS if the conference voted to disband making sense, in much the same way that a business closing down/ceasing to exist essentially nullifies existing contracts. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 12, 2023 9:03:54 GMT -8
The media deal is a contract the MWC has to honor. I believe Exit fees aren’t part of the media deal itself, CBS doesn’t get them. Exit fees are to help ensure there’s teams in the conference to maintain the conference through the media deal timeframe. There’s a difference. FWIW I didn't intend to take a position one way or the other, I just thought it was interesting that it is so universally viewed as such a one-way street. To your point above, I would see the contract being dissolved with CBS if the conference voted to disband making sense, in much the same way that a business closing down/ceasing to exist essentially nullifies existing contracts. While I have no way of knowing, I would think CBS would be willing to renegotiate Media (if allowable) if a reverser merger happened. While we are not huge, OSU and WSU absolutely do represent a significantly larger profile than any current MWC team. CBS may want to hang on to their only exclusive piece of CFB. I am pretty sure they have to share all their other conferences (Big 10) with Fox and ESPN and I am pretty sure they on 3rd on the list of what games they get. While I don't believe media or exit fees are any real roadblocks to a merger, I am interested to see how it would shake out. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 12, 2023 9:29:29 GMT -8
FWIW I didn't intend to take a position one way or the other, I just thought it was interesting that it is so universally viewed as such a one-way street. To your point above, I would see the contract being dissolved with CBS if the conference voted to disband making sense, in much the same way that a business closing down/ceasing to exist essentially nullifies existing contracts. While I have no way of knowing, I would think CBS would be willing to renegotiate Media (if allowable) if a reverser merger happened. While we are not huge, OSU and WSU absolutely do represent a significantly larger profile than any current MWC team. CBS may want to hang on to their only exclusive piece of CFB. I am pretty sure they have to share all their other conferences (Big 10) with Fox and ESPN and I am pretty sure they on 3rd on the list of what games they get. While I don't believe media or exit fees are any real roadblocks to a merger, I am interested to see how it would shake out. CBS would need to step forward in a big way. Having more than one party bidding would be welcome I'm sure. The more the merrier. |
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Post by 93beav on Oct 12, 2023 10:02:04 GMT -8
I'm sure if the decision were made to disband the MWC and reverse-merger, they'd talk to existing media rights holders first and make sure there were informal guarantees of some sort. Yes, if it's not on paper it's pretty much worthless, but still.
Always the long-shot that Apple is still interested. And I do think relegation might work with that. Depends upon, again, eyeballs vs subscriptions.
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 12, 2023 10:14:07 GMT -8
I'm sure if the decision were made to disband the MWC and reverse-merger, they'd talk to existing media rights holders first and make sure there were informal guarantees of some sort. Yes, if it's not on paper it's pretty much worthless, but still. Always the long-shot that Apple is still interested. And I do think relegation might work with that. Depends upon, again, eyeballs vs subscriptions. Given how much talk there is about how it appears the plan is to be "independent with a scheduling agreement with MWC" in 2024, I have to believe the details of the media deal is the driving factor to that decision. It is part of the puzzle I have the least clarity on. (as much as there is clarity in any of this for us regular internet dudes). I just think there would be incentive for CBS to WANT to deal. but maybe not, or maybe there isn't room to be able to. |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 13, 2023 14:42:50 GMT -8
It's interesting that nobody seems to view the media deal as a contract. It's almost as if everyone thinks that it's a benefit that the school leaving is simply no longer receiving, rather than being a signatory to a contractual obligation that lasts through a certain date. Maybe I am the one who misunderstands the situation. I'm not sure what the bylaws are for the MWC to be able to vote for dissolution, but I would assume that it would take a 2/3 majority vote or greater to make it happen. I don't see the relegation idea as ever being viable, but that's just my opinion man. Its been written the MWC needs a 75/80% majority (can’t remember which) to dissolve the conference. I’m assuming the same would need to happen to release a team from its exit fee obligations. Yep you can't wait out the MWC exit fees for individual schools. That is simply not true. The fees fluctuate with the value of the media contract but they are in conference bylaws and separate from the Media contracts. The MWC can renegotiate their media deal when the membership changes but I think you have to do that with CBS and Fox as both hold the current deal. I don't think you can go to open market for new partners under the MWC label. That is the advantage of rolling into the PAC name. |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 13, 2023 14:46:08 GMT -8
I'm sure if the decision were made to disband the MWC and reverse-merger, they'd talk to existing media rights holders first and make sure there were informal guarantees of some sort. Yes, if it's not on paper it's pretty much worthless, but still. Always the long-shot that Apple is still interested. And I do think relegation might work with that. Depends upon, again, eyeballs vs subscriptions. Given how much talk there is about how it appears the plan is to be "independent with a scheduling agreement with MWC" in 2024, I have to believe the details of the media deal is the driving factor to that decision. It is part of the puzzle I have the least clarity on. (as much as there is clarity in any of this for us regular internet dudes). I just think there would be incentive for CBS to WANT to deal. but maybe not, or maybe there isn't room to be able to. The MWC does not schedule all the sports that OSU and WSU have. They had better be working on those sports NOW if that is the plan |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 13, 2023 14:56:25 GMT -8
OK, don't shoot me because I'm just the messenger, but these guys seem convinced the reverse merger is all planned out and just waiting for the lawsuit to be resolved or settled, and that the recent documents on USC, UCLA and Colorado losing representation on the B of D kind of seal the deal.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 13, 2023 15:36:49 GMT -8
I think they're spot on. They insisted that Colorado would be going and had the rough timeframe before I heard it anywhere else. They also picked out which conferences would pick up which teams. The guy that does most of the talking hosted an ESPN talk show (radio?) for a few years, has a lot of contacts in the sports world.
I think it's a pretty fair likelihood he's nailing it.
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Post by p8nted on Oct 13, 2023 16:21:51 GMT -8
I think they're spot on. They insisted that Colorado would be going and had the rough timeframe before I heard it anywhere else. They also picked out which conferences would pick up which teams. The guy that does most of the talking hosted an ESPN talk show (radio?) for a few years, has a lot of contacts in the sports world. I think it's a pretty fair likelihood he's nailing it. He is pretty sure there is no big payout coming. Says the only money left the PAC is fighting over is the BB credits of 60 million and the ownership of the name and physical assets |
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Oct 13, 2023 16:36:27 GMT -8
what happened to 360 Million? Now 60M?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 13, 2023 16:48:17 GMT -8
what happened to 360 Million? Now 60M? I thought the 360 million is the TV and bowl agreement money the Pac is contracted to get the next couple of years. It cannot be reasonably argued that has already been earned by the schools that are leaving. I would assume that’s why they weren’t talking about it. The 60 million is the basketball credits for games that have already been played, but were to be paid in future years. |
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